Residency App with Prior (x2) arrests

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Jmadr02895

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Hello,

I recently have gotten admitted to medical school (Both MD and DO) Class of 2023.

I wanted to know how two prior arrest for possession of Marijuana will affect my application. Dates and results as follows
October 2015- Possesion of Cannabis- Dismissed (Expunged)
April 2017- Possesion of Cabbabis- Dismised

I no longer smoke pot. See previous post if you want explanation.

Given the history and passage of time will I be able to match. Should I proceed with my medical education or is there too much risk/uncertainty to continue.

I want program directors opinions but I don’t know how to tag them here. Please assist.

Thank you for taking the time to help me!

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You will be asked on state license forms if you have ever been CHARGED with a crime. Being charged with possession of a schedule 1 drug isn’t a little thing I would think but probably won’t prevent you from being licensed. You will have to disclose though. Residencies won’t care as long as you can get a training license.
 
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You will have to disclose it. You will need to address it in your application. It will absolutely have a negative impact on your match but should not preclude you from matching at all.

It should go without saying that you must have an absolutely spotless record during medical school, both in terms of criminal charges as well as scholastic performance. Any whiff of continued trouble would get your app tossed at most any program that was still willing to give you a chance before.

Certain fields will be a no go for you as well. Anesthesia is very wary of people with substance abuse history. The most competitive fields will probably be non starters too unless you build an absolutely earth shattering application otherwise.

If you rememebr only one thing from this post:

Your BEST chance for matching will be at your home program. You need to kiss a lot of arse from day one and be a model student. People talk so you can’t just phone it in and suck up on the rotation you care about; you need to turn in solid performances across the board. Your home program will have a chance to get to know you like no other place will, so be sure you’re laying a solid foundation for them to trust you and want to keep you around.
 
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Sounds like you were charged but never convicted of a crime. If so, residency programs wont know since you can answer “no” to the conviction question on ERAS.

Medical licensing boards will ask if you’ve been “charged” to which you will answer yes. Most ask you to provide certified copies of your arrest record and court documents. I dont think it will be a big deal for you. Good luck in medical school.
 
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Dude the medical schools wouldn't accept you if they thought this would be a licensure issue. Nobody cares about pot you smoked in college. Jesus

@operaman Why do you give advice when you're uneducated about the topic itself? ERAS doesn't require disclosure of sealed/expunged/dismissed charges.
 
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Dude the medical schools wouldn't accept you if they thought this would be a licensure issue. Nobody cares about pot you smoked in college. Jesus

@operaman Why do you give advice when you're uneducated about the topic itself? ERAS doesn't require disclosure of sealed/expunged/dismissed charges.

This is a perennially discussed topic and there is no settled conclusion about disclosure in these instances. Eras keeps the wording vague and people have gone both ways in terms of disclosure. Obviously you take a risk either way, but in general most people advise erring on the side of disclosure rather than risk it coming out later. When ERAS time rolls around, OP would be wise to consult a lawyer about the specific of his/her situation.
 
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Hello,

I recently have gotten admitted to medical school (Both MD and DO) Class of 2023.

I wanted to know how two prior arrest for possession of Marijuana will affect my application. Dates and results as follows
October 2015- Possesion of Cannabis- Dismissed (Expunged)
April 2017- Possesion of Cabbabis- Dismised

I no longer smoke pot. See previous post if you want explanation.

Given the history and passage of time will I be able to match. Should I proceed with my medical education or is there too much risk/uncertainty to continue.

I want program directors opinions but I don’t know how to tag them here. Please assist.

Thank you for taking the time to help me!
First of all. Dont admit to ANYTHING! the fact that you smoke pot or didnt is not material.

It seems you were charged and both charges were dismissed. So whats the problem?
 
The ERAS ask three questions

1. Have you been convicted of a misdemeanor?
NO

2 Have you been convicted of a felony?
NO.

3. If there anything in your history that is relevant for hospital privileges and lisencing?
This is one intentionally broad and will compels me to respond YES. I want to own this. If my grades and MCAT are any prediction of board success.. I think I’ll be okay if I work hard.

Also which fields are the most sensitive to substance abuse? The ones I’m interested in is NEURO, EM, IM, FM and I have a soft spot to Psychiatry.
 
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The ERAS ask three questions

1. Have you been convicted of a misdemeanor?
NO

2 Have you been convicted of a felony?
NO.

3. If there anything in your history that is relevant for hospital privileges and lisencing?
This is one intentionally broad and will compels me to respond YES. I want to own this. If my grades and MCAT are any prediction of board success.. I think I’ll be okay if I work hard.

Also which fields are the most sensitive to substance abuse? The ones I’m interested in is NEURO, EM, IM, FM and I have a soft spot to Psychiatry.


Honestly, I would reach out to one of the schools that accepted you (assuming you didn't lie on AMCAS). They know about this and accepted you, and could probably offer more help than this internet forum can.
 
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The ERAS ask three questions

1. Have you been convicted of a misdemeanor?
NO

2 Have you been convicted of a felony?
NO.

3. If there anything in your history that is relevant for hospital privileges and lisencing?
This is one intentionally broad and will compels me to respond YES. I want to own this. If my grades and MCAT are any prediction of board success.. I think I’ll be okay if I work hard.

Also which fields are the most sensitive to substance abuse? The ones I’m interested in is NEURO, EM, IM, FM and I have a soft spot to Psychiatry.

Anesthesia and anywhere where you’d have relatively easy access to highly abused substances are the most sensitive. I have friends in recovery who became addicts during residency. They had to pass random urine drug screens and participate in approved meetings for the medical board to allow them to have licenses. I don’t know what state you’re in but the various medical boards in each state have different requirements and some are stricter than others about dealing with physicians with a history of substance use. From what it sounds like I think you’d be able to get a license but likely be subjected to extra drug screens. If you have absolutely no problems during medical school that might not even be necessary.
 
First of all. Dont admit to ANYTHING! the fact that you smoke pot or didnt is not material.

It seems you were charged and both charges were dismissed. So whats the problem?

Because in order tfor get a license you will be asked about everything you have been CHARGED with. Regardless if resulted in a conviction or reduction to a lesser crime.
 
Dude the medical schools wouldn't accept you if they thought this would be a licensure issue. Nobody cares about pot you smoked in college. Jesus

@operaman Why do you give advice when you're uneducated about the topic itself? ERAS doesn't require disclosure of sealed/expunged/dismissed charges.
DUde if her were convic
Because in order tfor get a license you will be asked about everything you have been CHARGED with. Regardless if resulted in a conviction or reduction to a lesser crime.
Not really.. Many of the questions ask you if you were convicted of a crime.. not charged.

And if they ask charged. be honest and say yes... but both dismissed..... (dont get into anything else) and if you have to respond to ANYTHING further. Get legal representation immediately.

They could charge you with triple homicide.. but if it was dismissed it had no merit
 
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I want to own this..

NO you dont want to own this, trust me.

Call a lawyer NOW and dont come on here with questions that nobody on here can answer.

I told you both cases were dismissed. What do you want to own?
 
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Honestly, I would reach out to one of the schools that accepted you (assuming you didn't lie on AMCAS). They know about this and accepted you, and could probably offer more help than this internet forum can.
If you do this DO not do this without an attorney!!!
 
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Sadly OP was ahead of his time. Where I live now nobody is charged with possession for personal use amounts and there are stores in every industrial park. And I remember the distinct smell wafting through my med school dorm near the vicinity of some future ophthalmologists, cardiologists, and radiologists.
 
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3. If there anything in your history that is relevant for hospital privileges and lisencing?
This is one intentionally broad and will compels me to respond YES. I want to own this. If my grades and MCAT are any prediction of board success.. I think I’ll be okay if I work hard.

Also which fields are the most sensitive to substance abuse? The ones I’m interested in is NEURO, EM, IM, FM and I have a soft spot to Psychiatry.


I would answer no. It’s not relevant.

But stay away from it for your well-bring. Sounds like you were more than a casual user.
 
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DUde if her were convic

Not really.. Many of the questions ask you if you were convicted of a crime.. not charged.

And if they ask charged. be honest and say yes... but both dismissed..... (dont get into anything else) and if you have to respond to ANYTHING further. Get legal representation immediately.

They could charge you with triple homicide.. but if it was dismissed it had no merit

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. I just filled out a license application. It asked if I was EVER charged with a crime other than a traffic infraction, I had to answer yes for reckless driving (83 in a 70), which was later reduced to speeding. This was technically a class 1 misdemeanor charge. In another similarly stupid state I got another class 1 misdeameanor charge for expired plates. No option to explain anywhere.
 
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I would answer no. It’s not relevant.

But stay away from it for your well-bring. Sounds like you were more than a casual user.

He has a charge for possession of a schedule 1 drug and wants to become a physician and will have to fill out paperwork asking about any criminal charges in order to prescribe drugs. Your opinions about weed don’t matter. This is terrible advice.
 
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You literally have no idea what you are talking about. I just filled out a license application. It asked if I was EVER charged with a crime other than a traffic infraction, I had to answer yes for reckless driving (83 in a 70), which was later reduced to speeding. This was technically a class 1 misdemeanor charge. In another similarly stupid state I got another class 1 misdeameanor charge for expired plates. No option to explain anywhere.
Sounds like you have a lead foot. I sincerely hope you have chnged your driving habits.

Some licensing boards ask if you were charged, most dont. And many ask whether you were convicted. I do know what i am talking about.

Were you fingerprinted and arrested mugshot etc etc for this reckless driving crime?
 
Everyone is going to use their personal experience in answering the question but you should know that the medical licensing board questions will vary from state to state. Some will ask about charges vs convictions so you just have to be very careful in reading the question. Ultimately, if you're not sure then you should ask a lawyer who's an expert in the field. But being more truthful is far better than not. General rule of thumb is being caught lying, intended or unintended, is much more serious than just being honest up front.
 
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E General rule of thumb is being caught lying, intended or unintended, is much more serious than just being honest up front.
you think they would revoke one's license if caught lieing on one of those questions?
 
you think they would revoke one's license if caught lieing on one of those questions?

They may not revoke a license but they may not approve your licensing application and since you need your own license past PGY-2 that can lead to problems staying employed with your program. Listen, if someone wants to take the risk of not fully disclosing these things that's fine. But do you really want to be scrambling if they did decide you were dishonest and won't approve your license? High risk, low reward.
 
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Medicine is not a profession where you want to be coasting on technicalities and one attorney’s reading of some verbiage. And yes, if a board discovered you had falsified your application for licensure they could absolutely revoke it.

In the end most people err on the side of disclosure because some old dismissed charges, if disclosed, will not preclude getting a license, but submitting a fraudulent application for licensure almost certainly will. Even if approved, who wants the possibility of being found out hanging over your career?
 
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Medicine is not a profession where you want to be coasting on technicalities and one attorney’s reading of some verbiage. And yes, if a board discovered you had falsified your application for licensure they could absolutely revoke it.

In the end most people err on the side of disclosure because some old dismissed charges, if disclosed, will not preclude getting a license, but submitting a fraudulent application for licensure almost certainly will. Even if approved, who wants the possibility of being found out hanging over your career?

I wonder what the statute of limitations are if they find out you lied to get your license. Even if it is a minor lie. If they found you lied 15 years prior. I wonder if they could still revoke you
 
you sound pretty darn sure. WHy?

Really? You didn’t read the paragraph directly above your signature on the license application that states under penalty of perjury that you have filled out the form accurately and without reservation and that any false statement is grounds for revocation or denial of licensure?

I guess I’m sure because...I can read.

While there may be a statute of limitations on criminal perjury charges, there is no limit on when they can revoke your license for a falsified application. There’s no such thing as a minor lie in these matters and yes, 15 years later it could still come back to bite you.

Where this kind of thing usually comes up is during an investigation for some other issue. It could be another accusation of substance abuse or it could be something entirely unrelated. Where a small infraction later on would usually only get your license suspended pending some kind of monitoring or other punitive program, the discovery that an initial application was fraudulent could lead to more severe action.

Rememebr that medical boards are made up of human beings who may not take kindly to someone trying to coast by on a technicality. They are not a court bound by the rules of criminal or civil procedure and have a great deal of leeway when levying punishment against someone who was trying to pull a fast one. You know how medical schools will sometimes expel students for “professionalism” even if they didn’t technically violate some other written rule? Medical boards can do the same thing. So can residency programs.

As has been said ad nauseum: it’s almost always best to err on the side of openly disclosing. Take your lumps on the front end. If in doubt, hire professional legal counsel with experience in physician licensure.
 
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Really? You didn’t read the paragraph directly above your signature on the license application that states under penalty of perjury that you have filled out the form accurately and without reservation and that any false statement is grounds for revocation or denial of licensure?

I guess I’m sure because...I can read.

While there may be a statute of limitations on criminal perjury charges, there is no limit on when they can revoke your license for a falsified application. There’s no such thing as a minor lie in these matters and yes, 15 years later it could still come back to bite you.

Where this kind of thing usually comes up is during an investigation for some other issue. It could be another accusation of substance abuse or it could be something entirely unrelated. Where a small infraction later on would usually only get your license suspended pending some kind of monitoring or other punitive program, the discovery that an initial application was fraudulent could lead to more severe action.

Rememebr that medical boards are made up of human beings who may not take kindly to someone trying to coast by on a technicality. They are not a court bound by the rules of criminal or civil procedure and have a great deal of leeway when levying punishment against someone who was trying to pull a fast one. You know how medical schools will sometimes expel students for “professionalism” even if they didn’t technically violate some other written rule? Medical boards can do the same thing. So can residency programs.

As has been said ad nauseum: it’s almost always best to err on the side of openly disclosing. Take your lumps on the front end. If in doubt, hire professional legal counsel with experience in physician licensure.

You should be president of a medical board.

That is like putting someone in jail for LIFE for jay walking.

Punishment doesnt fit the crime.
I guess in this arena, it doesnt have to.
Your post should illlustrate to the readers what we are dealing with.
 
So just to be clear; I wanted opinions as it pertains to matching via ERAS assuming disclosure of the offenses. My concern is strictly with matching (because that involves comparison with other applicants). I am not too concerned about licensing.

I'm 99.99% sure erring on the side of disclosure is the intelligent thing to do; I've gotten in enough to trouble to know what happens when you play with fire.
 
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You should be president of a medical board.

That is like putting someone in jail for LIFE for jay walking.

Punishment doesnt fit the crime.
I guess in this arena, it doesnt have to.
Your post should illlustrate to the readers what we are dealing with.

Orrrrrr... you just disclose up front, the board sees it was something relatively minor from many years ago with no further issues since that time. They chalk it up to youth and grant licensure and now you go on with your practice and life and never have to worry about someone discovering a past lie.
 
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Orrrrrr... you just disclose up front, the board sees it was something relatively minor from many years ago with no further issues since that time. They chalk it up to youth and grant licensure and now you go on with your practice and life and never have to worry about someone discovering a past lie.

You call what you just described protecting the public?

Just to see where your heads at... what do you think is worse white lie on an application or being convicted of a DWI in the practice of medicine vis a vis "protecting the public:"???
 
You call what you just described protecting the public?

Just to see where your heads at... what do you think is worse white lie on an application or being convicted of a DWI in the practice of medicine vis a vis "protecting the public:"???

Pretty sure a lie is just a lie no matter how white it is when it comes to medical licensing
 
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You call what you just described protecting the public?

Just to see where your heads at... what do you think is worse white lie on an application or being convicted of a DWI in the practice of medicine vis a vis "protecting the public:"???
If you lie on the app, I don’t know what other lies you haven’t been caught on yet. I’m fine with revoking for that
 
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If you lie on the app, I don’t know what other lies you haven’t been caught on yet. I’m fine with revoking for that
You do realize you dont even get revoked for a dwi, gross negligence, having relationships with patients etc etc..

You should be revoked just for making that statement
 
You do realize you dont even get revoked for a dwi, gross negligence, having relationships with patients etc etc..

You should be revoked just for making that statement
You can get it revoked for those things if you refuse remediation and own up to what you did.

If you lie about those things your risk of revocation if much higher.
 
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You do realize you dont even get revoked for a dwi, gross negligence, having relationships with patients etc etc..

You should be revoked just for making that statement
You speak as though that is a defense for your point.
 
You call what you just described protecting the public?

Just to see where your heads at... what do you think is worse white lie on an application or being convicted of a DWI in the practice of medicine vis a vis "protecting the public:"???

I think other posters have already addressed this beautifully. There is no such thing as a little white lie on a formal legal document; there is only fraud or the absence of fraud. I fail to see why that is so difficult to understand since it is a principle that permeates the world of adulthood.

So if someone intentionally commits perjury at the time of application - even about an incident from years prior - that is very worrisome. It officially moves from something stupid done in youth to a felony being committed right now by the very same competent adult asking to be licensed to practice medicine.

You mention dwi and gross negligence and relationships with patients and suggest people don’t get revoked for those - that’s so wrong I don’t even know where to begin. There are ways to keep or reinstate your license after such things but they all involve full disclosure and extensive treatment, remediation, and monitoring. In fact, something like a DWI if you fail to report it will almost certainly get your license revoked, but if you chose to voluntarily disclose and seek proper treatment then you can usually keep your license and continue practicing. For any of those offenses you listed, lying about them or being anything less than fully transparent is a surefire path to revocation.

This is not just me being stubborn and unreasonable. This is the world of professional adults.
 
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I think other posters have already addressed this beautifully. There is no such thing as a little white lie on a formal legal document; there is only fraud or the absence of fraud. I fail to see why that is so difficult to understand since it is a principle that permeates the world of adulthood.

So if someone intentionally commits perjury at the time of application - even about an incident from years prior - that is very worrisome. It officially moves from something stupid done in youth to a felony being committed right now by the very same competent adult asking to be licensed to practice medicine.

You mention dwi and gross negligence and relationships with patients and suggest people don’t get revoked for those - that’s so wrong I don’t even know where to begin. There are ways to keep or reinstate your license after such things but they all involve full disclosure and extensive treatment, remediation, and monitoring. In fact, something like a DWI if you fail to report it will almost certainly get your license revoked, but if you chose to voluntarily disclose and seek proper treatment then you can usually keep your license and continue practicing. For any of those offenses you listed, lying about them or being anything less than fully transparent is a surefire path to revocation.

This is not just me being stubborn and unreasonable. This is the world of professional adults.
I will agree to disagree!!
Lying about having graduated from medical school and Lying about have you ever received a speeding ticket are two different things and shouldnt be treated the same. The are not the same. This is "creep" by the boards. Un necessary invasion of privacy. You are protecting the public. asking me irrelevant questions for the purpose of coming back later an dsaying "gotcha" does not serve that purpose.
 
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I will agree to disagree!!
Lying about having graduated from medical school and Lying about have you ever received a speeding ticket are two different things and shouldnt be treated the same. The are not the same. This is "creep" by the boards. Un necessary invasion of privacy. You are protecting the public. asking me irrelevant questions for the purpose of coming back later an dsaying "gotcha" does not serve that purpose.

The problem is not that the state boards are creeping too far, it’s that a state can give you a class 1 misdemeanor for driving 80 in a 70 or having expired tags.

You are trolling.
 
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I will agree to disagree!!
Lying about having graduated from medical school and Lying about have you ever received a speeding ticket are two different things and shouldnt be treated the same. The are not the same. This is "creep" by the boards. Un necessary invasion of privacy. You are protecting the public. asking me irrelevant questions for the purpose of coming back later an dsaying "gotcha" does not serve that purpose.

Lying about drug possession arrest and lying about a speeding ticket are also two different things. You’re being absurd
How can you be this obtuse
There is literally nothing to be gained about lying about something like this and everything to lose
This is not where you want to martyr yourself
 
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Lying about drug possession arrest and lying about a speeding ticket are also two different things. You’re being absurd
How can you be this obtuse
There is literally nothing to be gained about lying about something like this and everything to lose
This is not where you want to martyr yourself
I am NOT the one who is obtuse. You are!
 
Some of you sure seem like you could use a blunt.
 
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I am NOT the one who is obtuse. You are!

Why-is-the-obtuse-triangle-always-upset.jpg
 
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Based off the current approval rating of you know who I'm shocked anyone tells the truth about anything on any form anymore.
 
I am happy to comment, both to the OP and to Mr. S.

For the OP - I think this is a very minor issue. You'll clearly need to disclose it in your application, as you've already stated. By the time you're applying to residency it will be years in the past. You'll want to be 100% clear on your application that you no longer use at all. All employers will have drug screening, and if you fail that you'll be toast. Could you run up against a PD or 2 who when they look at your application they get upset and decide not to invite you? Sure, that could happen, especially if that person has a personal experience (i.e. family member, etc) which affects their judgement. But ending your medical career because of this is seriously overreacting.
 
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For Mr. S:

I'm going to take you at your word that you're honestly upset about this, and don't understand the rationale.

Although each board of medicine is independent and it's difficult to make any sweeping judgments regarding all of them, in general they will all ask questions about prior misdemeanors and felonies, and often also about any charges in general. They do this for several reasons:

1. Charges alone (without conviction) might represent a new offence that has not yet been litigated, an offence in the past that was "true" but couldn't be proven in a court of law and/or was plead down for expediency, or perhaps something that simply wasn't true at all. Boards have no interest in the latter, but perhaps lots of interest in the former. They would want to know if an applicant was charged with dealing drugs but then not convicted. Etc.

2. So why don't they make some rules about "you don't have to disclose speeding tickets" or something like that? Well, some boards do exactly that. But what you quickly discover is that it's very difficult to decide what's "important" to disclose, and what isn't. Let's stick with speeding, for example. What if you're caught doing 80 on an interstate with a limit of 65? What if you're doing 80 on the interstate and it's snowing like crazy? What if it's 80 in front of a hospital? What if it's happened multiple times? There's no good way to decide what should, or should not, be reported. So, they ask for everything. And then, they ignore anything minor.

I'm not sure what your major concern is. If you have a speeding ticket that's considered a misdemeanor in the state where you got it, you just disclose it and you'll get your license. No big deal. if you don't disclose it, then the lack of disclosure becomes the problem. No one would have cared. But now that you've lied about it, I worry you're hiding other things.

Some examples, from my board / program:

1. Resident gets a DUI. They went to dinner at a friend's house, had a couple glasses of wine. Drove home, ended up speeding down a hill and stopped. Asked if they had been drinking, answered yes to be honest was sure they were under the limit, blew over the limit. Came to me the next morning. "I done screwed up, is my career over?" is how our conversation started. Result: board was notified, recognized that we would have the resident under close supervision so did not impose any further requirements. Resident lost license for 6 months, was told needed to find a way to get to work on time every day. Did fine. Got job and license in another state (by choice). All good at last check.

2. Resident goes on vacation to another state, gets a DUI. Decides not to tell anyone, figures there's no way we would find out anyway. Of course, we end up finding out several months later. Result: Board revokes training license for not reporting in a timely manner. Fired immediately, because no license. Note that if reported in a timely manner, we would have had the same result as above.

3. Resident matches to our institution. After starting, while reviewing licensing paperwork, we discover that they list having attended two medical schools instead of one. ERAS application states only one medical school. Resident is questioned, says "oh yes, I went to med school A, failed out. I then went to Med School B and did fine. I assumed it didn't really matter since I graduated from medical school, which is what really matters". Result: it really matters. Terminated for fraud / incomplete application. We would have likely considered them, and matched, if they had been truthful in the first place.

This is the big leagues. You're a professional. Being a physician is a big job with lots of responsibility. Telling the truth is part of it.

Can this process run amok? Yes, it can. None of your examples come even close to real problems. But when boards have "concerns" about past psych issues and request private health records, or require psych assessments, or the whole concept of "disciplinary psychiatry" -- these can be problems and if we want to have a discussion about how to address or prevent these problems, I'm fine with that.

Of note, a common refrain in this type of question is "ask a lawyer". This is really not a good idea. First of all, if you ask 10 lawyers you're likely to get some to say disclose, and others to say not. How does that help? Plus lawyers look at questions like this as "what could I possibly defend in court?" As has been mentioned on this thread already, the best answer is to always disclose. That way, no one is taken by surprise, and you don't need to spend the next months / years worrying about it.
 
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Just to clarify for everyone here...the fingerprint FBI background check (required by almost all med schools and most licensing boards) is paramount. If it's not there, it's likely never going to show up in your medical career. Unless of course it is not there, *yet*. That is the highest background check anyone in medicine will ever get on you and if it's not there, it's not anywhere in terms of your medical career.

This is not about DMV minor traffic tickets though, they're with you for life. But the thing is no one gives a damn about them anyway.

My point is more about misdemeanor stuff from your past that was eventually dismissed and sealed or expunged. Yeah the licensing board wants you to report, and maybe you should, but if you don't they won't find out given it wasn't publicly reported anywhere. That's the truth though it might offend some people here.
 
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