Resident Hazard Pay?

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

That’s fair. But you are privy to the call rules, the call schedule, how to get in contact with your co-interns, etc. You are not privy to the hospital’s financial balance sheet, endowment, payroll, employee salaries, etc.

Has anyone asked? My experience during residency was that people--both at a Departmental or Hospital level--were almost eager to share some of this type of info with trainees that demonstrated an interest. This is especially true if you provide a specific reason why you're asking. I mean, people are seemingly making the assumption that there is money to go around, so they must know something.

"Hey, I'm interested in trying to understand some of the financial implications of how COVID is affecting our department, and how that may influence our ability to provide extra support to residents affected by coverage changes?" That's hell of a lot more compelling than putting people on blast via social media. But I guess that's just me.

Which is of course what was being suggested in one of those NYU emails. That admin suggested that mature residents would understand the decision if they were provided the financial background to explain it. I'm not sure how that comment became so controversial, other than people chose to focus on the implication that some residents may be immature.

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Some people in this thread fail basic math.

Revenues are down. Expenses are being cut. Meanwhile, some would like a pay increase - of course, who wouldn't like a pay increase? Except that you can't get blood from a stone.

We have a plague and now with the Asian Hornets a pestilence... pretty sure if you were ever going to get blood from a stone, now would be the time.

 

[myPsychAlt]

Has anyone asked? My experience during residency was that people--both at a Departmental or Hospital level--were almost eager to share some of this type of info with trainees that demonstrated an interest. This is especially true if you provide a specific reason why you're asking. I mean, people are seemingly making the assumption that there is money to go around, so they must know something.

"Hey, I'm interested in trying to understand some of the financial implications of how COVID is affecting our department, and how that may influence our ability to provide extra support to residents affected by coverage changes?" That's hell of a lot more compelling than putting people on blast via social media. But I guess that's just me.

Which is of course what was being suggested in one of those NYU emails. That admin suggested that mature residents would understand the decision if they were provided the financial background to explain it. I'm not sure how that comment became so controversial, other than people chose to focus on the implication that some residents may be immature.

Plus if you work at a program where your employer is a public entity, all those salaries ARE available for you to see. Even, in the case of private employers, it's not hard to find the c-suite salaries, which are frequently published in business pubs like Crain's.

Truthfully I've found that too many residents/fellows enter attending life with a poor grasp of the economics of what they're doing for a living, and it's not just the macro stuff. Too many finish training without understanding even basic billing and coding. Certain programs are better than others about this, but it's pretty resident dependent as a problem too. I overheard one of ones in my program a few years back complaining that it was a waste of time to learn that stuff because they weren't seeing any of the money themselves...

 

[Mass Effect]

My healthcare system is a $10B institution. . . . And they have lost about a billion dollars in the past few months.

You think C-suit of other $10B companies don’t make 7 figures? I actually have no idea about the salaries of my leadership team, but I don’t envy them during this time were they are losing money hand over fist.

Oh wait. I forgot the flow sheet for SDN.

1. Can I blame NPs or PA’s for something? No, then go to 2.
2. Wait. . . Did you think about going to a Caribbean school? No, then go to 3.
3. Administration is a meaningless tick on everyone’s left butt cheek. Don’t really know what they do. . But there are a lot of meetings. No,
4. Are you sure we can’t blame midlevels? Probably not a no. . . But if still no then go one
5. Prestige means everything. . . its worth extra hundreds of thousands dollars of debt which you will never pay off because you are following your “passion” . . . . Which turns into retiring before you are 40 y/o.

Rinse repeat.

Where does "the resident is never right" fit in?

 

[Mass Effect]

The fact that people are actually arguing this is making my head spin.

I really wish it didn't have so many psych and psych-interested people supporting that position too. We get enough work-averse trainees as it is.

This thread is about the exact opposite of work-averse trainees. Literally.

 

[Mass Effect]

Some people in this thread fail basic math.

Revenues are down. Expenses are being cut. Meanwhile, some would like a pay increase - of course, who wouldn't like a pay increase? Except that you can't get blood from a stone.

Except that the money to pay nurses and traveling providers is through the roof. Physicians are our own worst enemies.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

You want us to believe that hospital coffers are empty. who are you? You failed in basic comprehension.

You've failed at the basic comprehension between liquid and non-liquid assets. As physicians, I'd expect we're all acquainted with the idea of people who are "house poor".

 

[Eyeronic]

Oh wait. I forgot the flow sheet for SDN.

1. Can I blame NPs or PA’s for something? No, then go to 2.
2. Wait. . . Did you think about going to a Caribbean school? No, then go to 3.
3. Administration is a meaningless tick on everyone’s left butt cheek. Don’t really know what they do. . But there are a lot of meetings. No,
4. Are you sure we can’t blame midlevels? Probably not a no. . . But if still no then go one
5. Prestige means everything. . . its worth extra hundreds of thousands dollars of debt which you will never pay off because you are following your “passion” . . . . Which turns into retiring before you are 40 y/o.

Rinse repeat.

6. The average 30-something American with a bachelor's degree and a B average earns $275,000 per year, never works weekends or at home after work, and just purchased his/her 4th summer house in Barbados.

 

[RangerBob]

6. The average 30-something American with a bachelor's degree and a B average earns $275,000 per year, never works weekends or at home after work, and just purchased his/her 4th summer house in Barbados.

We physicians are notorious for being out of touch. I'm guilty of it too--every now and then I complain about student loans with other staff, then I realize I need to stop.

My brother has spent more time in school than me, getting a masters and a PhD. He probably makes 1/10 of what I make right now. And once he finishes his postdoc, maybe he'll make 1/6 of what I make.

My sister and her husband together (one BA, one MS) cannot afford a down payment on a home in our city. Yet I saved up enough within a year to do it (which would've also been enough to pay cash for my residency home in the midwest). On top of that, multiple banks will give me a loan for 5% down.

For all those who frown on management. My unit administrator has worked her butt off during this COVID stuff. She's working longer hours than me-I guarantee it. She's working late nights, weekends. She's not seeing her family much right now. Our unit would not be surviving without her. She's not getting a raise for all the extra work she's doing. She's just lucky the hospital kept her salary the same (everyone above her got paycuts). She makes less than half of what an FM doc makes.

Our CEO is walking the halls. She's talking with doctors in the ED to see what they need, with all the other hospitals in the area, with the County Health Department, and State. She's trying to keep the hospital afloat so we can still provide care to the people coming into the doors.

I am not the only hard worker at my hospital. In fact, there are plenty of people working much harder than I am. But the big thing is we're all in it together.

 

[evilbooyaa]

For all those who frown on management. My unit administrator has worked her butt off during this COVID stuff. She's working longer hours than me-I guarantee it. She's working late nights, weekends. She's not seeing her family much right now. Our unit would not be surviving without her. She's not getting a raise for all the extra work she's doing. She's just lucky the hospital kept her salary the same (everyone above her got paycuts). She makes less than half of what an FM doc makes.

Our CEO is walking the halls. She's talking with doctors in the ED to see what they need, with all the other hospitals in the area, with the County Health Department, and State. She's trying to keep the hospital afloat so we can still provide care to the people coming into the doors.

I am not the only hard worker at my hospital. In fact, there are plenty of people working much harder than I am. But the big thing is we're all in it together.

And that's well and good. Sounds like your admin is doing a good job and you have a good job where people work together. Not ALL admin are inherently evil. But, some are, and that's the frustration here.

 

[RangerBob]

And that's well and good. Sounds like your admin is doing a good job and you have a good job where people work together. Not ALL admin are inherently evil. But, some are, and that's the frustration here.

Absolutely. But when a few others are saying all admin/c-suite folks are bad and useless it bothers me. Just as it would if someone said they’re all great and always put patients first.

Not all the admin at my hospital are great, but as a smaller community hospital, I do think we have more people that care.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Absolutely. But when a few others are saying all admin/c-suite folks are bad and useless it bothers me. Just as it would if someone said they’re all great and always put patients first.

Not all the admin at my hospital are great, but as a smaller community hospital, I do think we have more people that care.

Agree that extremism on either side is unproductive, but that we should be shooting for most if not all admin being seen as useful.

Have anecdotally seen that admin at successful smaller hospitals and hospital systems are more in-tune with frontline workers. Something about respect I imagine.

 

[RangerBob]

Agree that extremism on either side is unproductive, but that we should be shooting for most if not all admin being seen as useful.

Have anecdotally seen that admin at successful smaller hospitals and hospital systems are more in-tune with frontline workers. Something about respect I imagine.

Most likely. I think CEOs in general that respect their frontline workers get that respect back and are much more successful. People are more likely to follow and believe in you, and go through hardships, if they trust and respect their leader.

Our CEO gained a lot of respect from me when she got put on our golf team for a fundraiser. Aside from her being very personable and actually caring about how my unit was doing, she was as good of a golfer as me.

I’ve golfed once my entire life... And it was a 9-hole course.

Nevertheless we did manage to win-sort if. We got free lessons for having the highest score out of about 40 teams.

 

[Raryn]

Most likely. I think CEOs in general that respect their frontline workers get that respect back and are much more successful. People are more likely to follow and believe in you, and go through hardships, if they trust and respect their leader.

Our CEO gained a lot of respect from me when she got put on our golf team for a fundraiser. Aside from her being very personable and actually caring about how my unit was doing, she was as good of a golfer as me.

I’ve golfed once my entire life... And it was a 9-hole course.

Nevertheless we did manage to win-sort if. We got free lessons for having the highest score out of about 40 teams.

Highest score. Golf.

 

[Splenda88]

I'm One Of The Resident Doctors In NYC. Here's How We're Being Exploited.

"It should not take a global pandemic to treat residents like humans. We love our jobs, but we just want basic rights."

www.yahoo.com

 

[<L>]

I'm One Of The Resident Doctors In NYC. Here's How We're Being Exploited.

"It should not take a global pandemic to treat residents like humans. We love our jobs, but we just want basic rights."

www.yahoo.com

It's like a compilation of whiny SDN posts all in one place. She seriously cites a demand for "loan forgiveness" in the first ****ing paragraph.

 

[RangerBob]

Highest score. Golf.

It’s a point of pride for me how bad I am at golf-especially miniature golf.

I can sprint and run, but those are really the only athletic activities I was ever competitive at. Anything with finesse —put me on the team you want to lose...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Absolutely, but the increase in salary over the past few years has not been commensurate with the increase in student debt (undergraduate + med school). Also, more students are having to take gap years before starting medical school, so the future earning potential is becoming more and more diminished. I can see why an NYC resident with a family to support would feel undercompensated given the amount of work and debt that is required to enter the profession.

 

[michaelrack]

No, they don't all get hazard pay. If they did, it wouldn't be hazard pay. Again, hazard pay is a legitimate thing, as defined by the Department of Labor. By definition, those not working in hazardous conditions should not get it. It's completely fair, in my book. I'm a psychiatrist. I don't deserve hazard pay. My colleagues on the front lines do. They're the ones risking their lives while I'm doing remote work.

If you were an inpatient psychiatrist ( non remote )dealing with aggressive methamphetamine addicted schizophrenic patients who refused to wear a mask during the height of the epidemic (like I was) , that was somewhat hazardous. Of course, not as bad as for IM hospitalists dealing with known COvid positive patients