Respect Patient Autonomy?

[SpoiledMilk]

In clinic recently, I entered an exam room to talked to the patient before presenting to my attending in their office. The nurse confirmed with the patient that they were fine speaking to a medical student. As I entered and greeted them, they took one look at me, asked me if I was the medical student, and loudly exclaimed, "No!" They were sitting on the exam table and threw the clipboard onto the counter top as I exited shell-shocked.

TBH, my school has not taught us how to react to these kinds of situations only teaching us that we must respect patient autonomy. I did bring up the matter with my attending immediately before they went to see the patient, but was kind of disappointed in their response. The attending brushed off my concerns speculating that the patient probably did not hear the nurse ask whether they were fine speaking to a medical student. I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This is going to happen as a trainee. Drop it and move on.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

you were shell-shocked from this? when I was a medical student, if a patient did that I would look at them and say "bye felicia." then be out of the room thinking, "hell yeah, good work self."

 

[Oedipa Maas]

Ehhhh do you really want to be in there with someone who doesn’t want you there? I’ve had the opposite happen, where the attending shamed the patient into letting me stay by reminding them they came to a teaching hospital. And then I got to spend the whole visit standing in the corner to learn from a very basic, non medically complex case, with the patient glancing at me awkwardly from time to time. Would not recommend. Keep in mind that you are a visitor, these attendings will be seeing these patients for long after you’ve moved onto your next rotation.

 

[libertyyne]

Clearly you have never attended an OBGYN rotation as a male.
Patients can choose if they want to see a medical student. Dont take it personally, move on.
Not even sure what there is to complain about, patients are sometimes rude and act out. This has nothing to do with you, the political environment or anything else.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

In all honesty, are you a brand new third year just starting rotations? because if this offends you, you are in for a long road. I don't know if you are a minority, wear specific religious clothing, a male, a female, fat, or thin, etc. but people will find something to hate on you for throughout this process. And I say that as a white male who got plenty of hate in med school and residency. it isn't going to go away any time soon and will likely come at you from all angles, including your preceptors (thinking surgery). and throughout the rest of your career/life in medicine.

whether it is right or wrong, you better get used to it.

 

[calivianya]

You realize you got lucky, right?

In my previous career, I was absolutely thrilled to get fired by a patient. The types of patients that go out of their way to fire people/kick people out of the room are generally the kind of needy/entitled/demanding patients the patient care staff argue over being forced to deal with. They get lots of fragmented care because when they’re hospitalized, the conversation outside of the patient’s room goes something like, “But I had a hard day yesterday, I need an easier assignment!” “Well, I’ve taken care of this patient twice this year already!” “But it’s my birthday, I shouldn’t have to!” “I’ve been here longer than you so I have seniority!” “Well, it’s your last day this week so you only have to put up with them for one shift, if I take them today I might be forced into taking them tomorrow for continuity of care!”

If the patient dismissed you on their own? Free pass, homes. You just got a free pass and nobody can argue with it because the patient said it. You got the ultimate get out of jail free card.

 

[HBSlim]

As a 5th year ortho resident I had a patient in clinic demand to talk to the "real doctor" as soon as I walked in the room, 2 weeks before my graduation. "Works for me", gave em a thumbs up, and walked out the door. I'd count it as a win OP, the type of patient who does that is usually a P.I.T.A to deal with. Count your blessings that you were able to dodge a bullet.

 

[NonTrad16]

For most circumstances I brush it off. Especially OBGYN. Or if someone just looks like they are in a bad mood. But recently had a patient initially refuse to speak with me during an outpatient sub-I. After I left I realized the physician I was working with wouldn’t have it, so I went back and bartered my way up to doing the history. The patient ended up being super relaxed — don’t know what the initial apprehension was about.

I think it can serve you well to try to negotiate (sometimes) and let it be (others). You’ll have patients who want to talk to someone higher forever... sometimes it’s an option, sometimes not. Sometimes it’ll be a relief (angry patient, with care escalated from intern to chief to attending), sometimes not (you’re trying to impress on a sub-I).

You’ll figure it out

 

[ciestar]

This won’t be the last time this happens.

 

[M&L]

You realize you got lucky, right?

In my previous career, I was absolutely thrilled to get fired by a patient. The types of patients that go out of their way to fire people/kick people out of the room are generally the kind of needy/entitled/demanding patients the nursing/patient care staff argue over being forced to deal with. They get lots of fragmented care because when they’re hospitalized, the conversation outside of the patient’s room goes something like, “But I had a hard day yesterday, I need an easier assignment!” “Well, I’ve taken care of this patient twice this year already!” “But it’s my birthday, I shouldn’t have to!” “I’ve been here longer than you so I have seniority!” “Well, it’s your last day this week so you only have to put up with them for one shift, if I take them today I might be forced into taking them tomorrow for continuity of care!”

If the patient dismissed you on their own? Free pass, homes. You just got a free pass and nobody can argue with it because the patient said it. You got the ultimate get out of jail free card.

In my previous healthcare jobs I only ever got fired by one patient in six years - and it was the crazy family member that fired me, not the patient. Either way, I was able to get out of that room and not have to deal with that family anymore! Enjoy this rare magical unicorn gift when it presents itself to you. It doesn’t come around very often.

This is such a healthy way of dealing with it !!!! Love it !!!! Will definitely try to see it this way

 

[IMGASMD]

It’s not a reflection on you. It’s a reflection on them as human beings. So don’t be offended and move on.

 

[wysdoc]

Clearly you have never attended an OBGYN rotation as a male.
Patients can choose if they want to see a medical student. Dont take it personally, move on.
Not even sure what there is to complain about, patients are sometimes rude and act out. This has nothing to do with you, the political environment or anything else.

Screaming and throwing a clipboard was over the top though! Who wouldn't be startled?
Hang in there @DV-T, it has happened to me as an attending even, when a patient wanted the other doc in the clinic and not me. When I walked in and they just loudly said the other doc's name while staring at me, I would just say, "OK then", and walk back out.

 

[operaman]

I think the key in these situations is to keep the heel-kick jumping for joy celebration inside until you are out of earshot of the patient.

One less note to write. Count it as a win and move on! Much harder to get rid of these patients when you’re the attending.

 

[Goro]

In clinic recently, I entered an exam room to talked to the patient before presenting to my attending in their office. The nurse confirmed with the patient that they were fine speaking to a medical student. As I entered and greeted them, they took one look at me, asked me if I was the medical student, and loudly exclaimed, "No!" They were sitting on the exam table and threw the clipboard onto the counter top as I exited shell-shocked.

TBH, my school has not taught us how to react to these kinds of situations only teaching us that we must respect patient autonomy. I did bring up the matter with my attending immediately before they went to see the patient, but was kind of disappointed in their response. The attending brushed off my concerns speculating that the patient probably did not hear the nurse ask whether they were fine speaking to a medical student. I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

You've been given excellent advice in this thread. Here's one more bit: develop a thicker skin.

I know docs who have been spit on and attacked by patients.

 

[Alkaidius]

I’ve had a patient purposefully defecate and ask me to wipe them...this was in another healthcare gig where I was obligated to. Just waiting for the day when I can one-up that. Treat it like a game! Everyone has a list of “OH YEAH, well I had a patient once....” and you just got your first~

 

[IMGASMD]

I’ve had a patient purposefully defecate and ask me to wipe them...this was in another healthcare gig where I was obligated to. Just waiting for the day when I can one-up that. Treat it like a game! Everyone has a list of “OH YEAH, well I had a patient once....” and you just got your first~

Nah...... hard pass.

Reminds me of a story some ass wipe who defected on an airplane, claims that he can’t reach to wipe. Insisted flight attendant to wipe it for him. Pretty sure he got off on that.

I’ve done manual disimpaction, for medical reason. Anything else is either nurses or cnas’ responsibility. I’ve been talked to for doing union jobs (like cleaning the floor after I’ve made a mess). So any code browns, this is when I will support the union.

 

[kopftonmd]

Sorry this happened to you, OP. As others have said, medicine kinda sucks sometimes. Once I had an attending who got so worked up over a patient trying to kick myself and the resident out, there was almost a crisis.

At the med student level though, I really think you just need to say ok byeeee and peace out. No attending is going to ding you for that, and you get an extra 20 minutes of study time! Think of it as an unexpected break rather than a yuuuge problem.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

You've been given excellent advice in this thread. Here's one more bit: develop a thicker skin.

I know docs who have been spit on and attacked by patients.

That is never ok.
Thick skin is if a patient yells at you or is rude to you.
Spitting and attacking is assault and is never tolerated, I’m calling the cops the moment that occurs.

 

[calivianya]

That is never ok.
Thick skin is if a patient yells at you or is rude to you.
Spitting and attacking is assault and is never tolerated, I’m calling the cops the moment that occurs.

I couldn’t love your post any more if I tried.

Everyone’s like, but dementia! Delirium! But they’re in the hospital and they’re sick!!! I had a post removed from Quora back in the day when I used to post there because I was “discriminatory” and “intolerant” or something, don’t remember exactly, when I was talking about being sexually harassed or attacked at work by someone who was definitely oriented and not experiencing any sort of ICU psychosis or delirium.

The truth is that quite a few healthcare assaults are done by perfectly oriented, alert, self-aware patients who know exactly what they’re doing when they’re doing it, who think they can get away with it because they’re “sick” (in more than one way). And we need to be calling the cops on those people instead of tolerating violence/harassment/assault from patients or staff members.

 

[Goro]

That is never ok.
Thick skin is if a patient yells at you or is rude to you.
Spitting and attacking is assault and is never tolerated, I’m calling the cops the moment that occurs.

My apologies for not being more lucid. This tends to happen when I'm texting while Mrs Dr Goro is driving.

My point was NOT that one should tolerate being the victim of assault, but that patients are not always nice people, and one simply can't complain because they don't want to see you.

 

[Tenk]

You’ll understand in several years that being kicked out of that room was the best thing that happened to you that day.

I wish I could still get kicked out of certain patient’s rooms... sigh.

 

[deleted480308]

In clinic recently, I entered an exam room to talked to the patient before presenting to my attending in their office. The nurse confirmed with the patient that they were fine speaking to a medical student. As I entered and greeted them, they took one look at me, asked me if I was the medical student, and loudly exclaimed, "No!" They were sitting on the exam table and threw the clipboard onto the counter top as I exited shell-shocked.

TBH, my school has not taught us how to react to these kinds of situations only teaching us that we must respect patient autonomy. I did bring up the matter with my attending immediately before they went to see the patient, but was kind of disappointed in their response. The attending brushed off my concerns speculating that the patient probably did not hear the nurse ask whether they were fine speaking to a medical student. I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed telling the fellow they had to write the h/p and that, nope, I couldn’t wake up at 2am and evaluate the cervical dilation of that patient because they didn’t want males or tell the same thing to the midwife because they were a hippy that didn’t want doctors (on my ob rotation)

you won, op

crazy patient that only speaks to attendings because med students are dumb? Cool story patient, you deserve the best. I’m gonna take a seat and check my email while the attending gets to you. Peace

 

[jurassicpark]

I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

Unfortunately it happens. Some patients absolutely do not want a resident nor a student, that is why some patients very much avoid hospitals with them and come to the community hospitals when we tell them those centers have more specialized care.

But the parts I quoted above, a patient not wanting to be seen by medical student has to do with the political environment. What does that even mean in this context? What do you expect your clerkship director to do?

 

[deleted1038938]

In clinic recently, I entered an exam room to talked to the patient before presenting to my attending in their office. The nurse confirmed with the patient that they were fine speaking to a medical student. As I entered and greeted them, they took one look at me, asked me if I was the medical student, and loudly exclaimed, "No!" They were sitting on the exam table and threw the clipboard onto the counter top as I exited shell-shocked.

TBH, my school has not taught us how to react to these kinds of situations only teaching us that we must respect patient autonomy. I did bring up the matter with my attending immediately before they went to see the patient, but was kind of disappointed in their response. The attending brushed off my concerns speculating that the patient probably did not hear the nurse ask whether they were fine speaking to a medical student. I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

idk this doesn't seem like a big deal. it happens a lot, you just accept it and move on. a patient has the right to determine who will deliver their healthcare. i've been told this a lot but definitely don't even remember who has told it to me. you live ya learn.

 

[deleted1038938]

In all honesty, are you a brand new third year just starting rotations? because if this offends you, you are in for a long road. I don't know if you are a minority, wear specific religious clothing, a male, a female, fat, or thin, etc. but people will find something to hate on you for throughout this process. And I say that as a white male who got plenty of hate in med school and residency. it isn't going to go away any time soon and will likely come at you from all angles, including your preceptors (thinking surgery). and throughout the rest of your career/life in medicine.

whether it is right or wrong, you better get used to it.

yes - from a minority group and several patients told me they hated my people. lol..

 

[Candidate2017]

OP, next time just yell, "See this short white coat?! Respect mah authoritae!" It will also work wonders on the clipboard throwing professionals in surgery and OB.

 

[jurassicpark]

OP, next time just yell, "See this short white coat?! Respect mah authoritae!" It will also work wonders on the clipboard throwing professionals in surgery and OB.

The last person I remember to throw a chart at a resident was actually from IM. He was an old school Attending.

 

[deleted689358]

yes - from a minority group and several patients told me they hated my people. lol..

I eagerly await the day when I have to deal with a patient that is rude/biased against LGBTQ+ or Hispanic people. The self satisfaction I'd have as they realize the very person they hate contributed to saving their life would be immeasurable. Of course this more likely corresponds more to attending-hood than as a medical student.

If they want me off the case, goodbye! Apologies to the poor attending that has to deal with that miserable mess.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I eagerly await the day when I have to deal with a patient that is rude/biased against LGBTQ+ or Hispanic people. The self satisfaction I'd have as they realize the very person they hate contributed to saving their life would be immeasurable. Of course this more likely corresponds more to attending-hood than as a medical student.

If they want me off the case, goodbye! Apologies to the poor attending that has to deal with that miserable mess.

Got news for you, that’s not going to change their mind.

 

[deleted689358]

Got news for you, that’s not going to change their mind.

Changing their mind is not anywhere near my intent. That is not my job. What is, is to care for them, as close to without bias, and potentially save their life.

If I can relish on their ignorant discomfort, then that is icing on the cake.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Changing their mind is not anywhere near my intent. That is not my job. What is, is to care for them, as close to without bias, and potentially save their life.

If I can relish on their ignorant discomfort, then that is icing on the cake.

To each their own I guess.

 

[DrRedstone]

When I was on my IM service, I was working on an ER admission. The patient got mad I asked him redundant information ("I"ve already told so and so this") because, you know, being thorough and seeing if the story changed. About halfway through the history, he told me "I don't want to talk to students." I politely said "thank you for your time" and left. Later I learned he got into a very loud confrontation with a rather firey nephrologist and ended up being fired from that service. I like to think of it as a bullet I dodged that day. Side note, I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that confrontation xD

 

[deleted689358]

To each their own I guess.

I am a bit confused, unless the thought is that I would somehow be acting maliciously towards that person which I would never do.

I am curious as to what your philosophy is on this. The onus is on those being disparaged to change the minds of the ignorant?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I am a bit confused, unless the thought is that I would somehow be acting maliciously towards that person which I would never do.

I am curious as to what your philosophy is on this. The onus is on those being disparaged to change the minds of the ignorant?

No, you misunderstand (or I wasn’t clear). I just meant that if seeing them squirm knowing someone they hate helped save them would give you pleasure, then you do you. I just feel bad for people like that. It must be horrible to just be so angry and hateful all the time.

 

[libertyyne]

I am a bit confused, unless the thought is that I would somehow be acting maliciously towards that person which I would never do.

I am curious as to what your philosophy is on this. The onus is on those being disparaged to change the minds of the ignorant?

Its just odd that you would even care what that person thought to begin with. I am a minority myself and if someone has some bias against me and I am treating them. I wouldnt even think about that, because people who have a negative opinion about me because of race deserve none of my mental energy to even think about their racism. A desire to watch them squirm seems to arises from a position of giving their point of view credence to begin with which in my mind has none to begin with. So there is nothing gained in proving them wrong because they were wrong to begin with.
Plus it is my place to treat them, not thrust my identity upon them or obtain any schadenfreude in their discomfort.
But you do you.

 

[deleted1038938]

Its just odd that you would even care what that person thought to begin with. I am a minority myself and if someone has some bias against me and I am treating them. I wouldnt even think about that, because people who have a negative opinion about me because of race deserve none of my mental energy to even think about their racism. A desire to watch them squirm seems to arises from a position of giving their point of view credence to begin with which in my mind has none to begin with. So there is nothing gained in proving them wrong because they were wrong to begin with.
Plus it is my place to treat them, not thrust my identity upon them or obtain any schadenfreude in their discomfort.
But you do you.

agree with this sentiment. it happens, move on from it. i don't even think about it or remember which patients said it lol. it would be too taxing to think about every negative patient encounter.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

My apologies for not being more lucid. This tends to happen when I'm texting while Mrs Dr Goro is driving.

My point was NOT that one should tolerate being the victim of assault, but that patients are not always nice people, and one simply can't complain because they don't want to see you.

Got it and I agree.

 

[deleted689358]

Its just odd that you would even care what that person thought to begin with. I am a minority myself and if someone has some bias against me and I am treating them. I wouldnt even think about that, because people who have a negative opinion about me because of race deserve none of my mental energy to even think about their racism. A desire to watch them squirm seems to arises from a position of giving their point of view credence to begin with which in my mind has none to begin with. So there is nothing gained in proving them wrong because they were wrong to begin with.
Plus it is my place to treat them, not thrust my identity upon them or obtain any schadenfreude in their discomfort.
But you do you.

The difference here is that schaudenfreude is internal and doesn’t need insult to be inflicted upon anyone. For example being called incompetent and consequently saving that persons life would yield the same result. Does the patient need to know how you feel about that? No. A patient tossing someone out of the room because of an identity in the instance of the OP’s post (e.g medical student) can absolutely be harmful.

I’m not thrusting my identity on to anyone. Especially when it’s often impossible to leave your race at the door. If the patient wanted me out for my identity because it made them uncomfortable then they deserve to have that decision honored.

Do I want to watch them squirm? No. But I do take satisfaction in trying to stay above the fray in the face of bias and proving them wrong.

I concede that perhaps I’m not much different than this theoretical patient, in that the schadenfreude originated from a place of history and pain. I’m sure most of them come from the same place. And it could have certainly been articulated more respectfully.

And I would also add, you’re a much bigger person than I. I suppose the consistent expectation for the scorned to appease these types of people in the name of “normalization” has ground me down. I’m working on it.

 

[Hopeful101]

The last person I remember to throw a chart at a resident was actually from IM. He was an old school Attending.

As a medical student/resident do you just take that **** or can you report it to someone? I did not sign up to get stuff thrown at me. Especially not by doctors...

 

[libertyyne]

As a medical student/resident do you just take that **** or can you report it to someone? I did not sign up to get stuff thrown at me. Especially not by doctors...

No doctor is throwing stuff at you. These things rarely happen anymore because hospitals don’t put up with this stuff anymore for the most part. The most abused I felt wAs at the hands of an autistic circulating nurse , and she just was infinitely condescending and just a nasty person to deal with .

 

[deleted480308]

As a medical student/resident do you just take that **** or can you report it to someone? I did not sign up to get stuff thrown at me. Especially not by doctors...

It’s the kind of thing that is so absurdly rare it’s usually everyone has a friend of a friend it happened to and the story gets passed on

if someone physically throws a dangerous object at me, I would immediately call security/cops and it would become a big thing

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

It’s the kind of thing that is so absurdly rare

Is this the case just as a med student or the case in residency too. Is our fascination malignant surg/OB residencies like our fascination with serial killers (in that you will most likely never meet one) or is resident abuse widespread.

 

[calivianya]

Changing their mind is not anywhere near my intent. That is not my job. What is, is to care for them, as close to without bias, and potentially save their life.

If I can relish on their ignorant discomfort, then that is icing on the cake.

I hope those are the only kinds of racist/bigoted patients (ones who are uncomfortable) that you run into.

Always remember that if you’re close enough to lay a stethoscope on the patient, you’re close enough to get hurt and you should have someone else in the room with you if the patient is making threats, racially motivated or otherwise. Had a coworker who thought she could handle one of these kinds of people alone who got her head grabbed and yanked hard enough that she had some cervical fractures. She ended up being fine and was only out a few months before coming back to work, but it could have very easily gone a different way for her.

Do not underestimate real hate. Not all racists are going to settle for just being rude.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is this the case just as a med student or the case in residency too. Is our fascination malignant surg/OB residencies like our fascination with serial killers (in that you will most likely never meet one) or is resident abuse widespread.

I worked at a number of hospitals before med school, and I only saw a physician throw something once, and it wasn’t at anyone. He was super stressed out because of the case and the thing he asked for wasn’t the thing he actually wanted so he threw it across the room instead of giving it back. He got written up by the hospital.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I am a bit confused, unless the thought is that I would somehow be acting maliciously towards that person which I would never do.

I am curious as to what your philosophy is on this. The onus is on those being disparaged to change the minds of the ignorant?

Never hurts to educate. I've had thousands of "What's a D.O.?" conversations with patients. After explaining the schooling and training, they will often remark, "Wow! That's almost as bad as being a Doctor!" Whose job is it to educate them? I never miss an opportunity. Bias is defeated one battle at a time.

 

[deleted480308]

Is this the case just as a med student or the case in residency too. Is our fascination malignant surg/OB residencies like our fascination with serial killers (in that you will most likely never meet one) or is resident abuse widespread.

Like being struck by lightning

 

[ValeRx]

I know docs who have been spit on and attacked by patients.

That sounds like an entire eight hour shift working retail pharmacy.

 

[ciestar]

That sounds like an entire eight hour shift working retail pharmacy.

I had stuff thrown at me while working at CVS lol

 

[deleted645092]

In clinic recently, I entered an exam room to talked to the patient before presenting to my attending in their office. The nurse confirmed with the patient that they were fine speaking to a medical student. As I entered and greeted them, they took one look at me, asked me if I was the medical student, and loudly exclaimed, "No!" They were sitting on the exam table and threw the clipboard onto the counter top as I exited shell-shocked.

TBH, my school has not taught us how to react to these kinds of situations only teaching us that we must respect patient autonomy. I did bring up the matter with my attending immediately before they went to see the patient, but was kind of disappointed in their response. The attending brushed off my concerns speculating that the patient probably did not hear the nurse ask whether they were fine speaking to a medical student. I confirmed with the nurse that they asked the patient about speaking with a student. I dropped the matter with my attending, but expect that it will likely happen again in my medical school career and/or beyond due to how toxic the political environment has become.

I am seeking advice on how to proceed when it happens again as I felt powerless as a MS, suppressing my urge to respond to the patient accordingly. I don't believe it warrants reporting to the clerkship director or school's Student Affairs Office, but am open-minded to one or both possibilities based on the advice given.

Thank you.

lol this is going to happen to you all the time during training. It’s going to get to the point where you mentally celebrate because you don’t have to do anything. Brush it off and move on.