RO Orals posptoned due to coronavirus

[deleted605854]

I don't think the ABR will allow remote proctoring but honestly why would I have any reason to be optimistic about anything ABR related ?

Cheers

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[thecarbonionangle]

I don't think the ABR will allow remote proctoring but honestly why would I have any reason to be optimistic about anything ABR related ?

Cheers

This post is brought to you by Jack Daniel's

Stay thirsty, my friends. Cheers

 

[ramsesthenice]

All you did was lecture on things where radiation may play a role. In the end, if surgeon is going to operate they do,it doesn’t matter what you say about prostate cancer or whatever. If an ENT wants to do TORS they do. If a med onc decides that the pancreatic data is absolute crap, and just give chemo, they give chemo. If the liver transplant surgeon decides he does not want you to “SBRT” that lesion because it will make his surgery more difficult, it simple does not happen. If a med onc decides to give FLOAT and not send you an esophagus, then you don’t get it. List goes on. This is not difficult, would encourage paying attention as well as knowing the difference between “your” and “you’re”.

Reality is reality and i don’t need your advice or your condescension. I actually think the field is going bad because of people like YOU!!!! Ugh!!!

I am staying out of the debate that is going on here. People have very different perceptions because there are so many different realities. We are not universally respected or discarded. I work at a great institution and I am usually heavily involved in multi-D decision making and I can talk surgeons and med oncs out of crazy ideas. That said, even here there are two MOGs in which the old school dominates (most notably lymphoma). The point I am trying to make is that for people lucky enough to interview for a couple jobs I think getting an honest sense of the multi-D culture should be very high on the list of things you want to know. Nothing feels worse than sitting at a meeting for an hour and wondering why you were even there and if you have to do it week in and week out that will clearly kill your job satisfaction. But being treated like that is not an inescapable reality.

 

[hockyfan]

ASTRO adding to the pressure for the ABR to cave and allow virtual administration

 

[radOresident]

https://www.astro.org/ASTRO/media/ASTRO/AffiliatePages/arro/PDFs/ARROLettertoABR_WrittenExams.pdf

December 1-15 had by far the lowest resident support for rescheduled dates of rad bio, physics, and clinical boards. Naturally the ABR selected December 7th and 8th as the dates.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I mean, yes ABR should have asked ARRO for input, but that survey went out to the residents like literally the day ABR announced.

So yes, ABR should have asked ARRO for input, but it's not like they saw that residents wanted it anytime besides Dec 1-15, and specifically picked 7th/8th just to 'stick it to em'.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

https://www.astro.org/ASTRO/media/ASTRO/AffiliatePages/arro/PDFs/ARROLettertoABR_WrittenExams.pdf

December 1-15 had by far the lowest resident support for rescheduled dates of rad bio, physics, and clinical boards. Naturally the ABR selected December 7th and 8th as the dates.

you’re welcome, sir!

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Nothing rings in the holiday spirit like boards examinations.

 

[w00tz]

If they keep December for physics/rad bio, and July for clinicals, these poor residents are going to be so burned out from studying. I guess same thing for the current PGY5s with clinical and orals.

 

[RadOncMegatron]

SDN vs Twitter now it’s ABR vs ASTRO! Aren’t these guys all friends on first name basis?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

SDN vs Twitter now it’s ABR vs ASTRO! Aren’t these guys all friends on first name basis?

Man if there's one thing SDN, Twitter, and ASTRO/ARRO can agree on...it's that the ABR is really dropping the ball.

The enemy of my enemy and all that.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

SDN vs Twitter now it’s ABR vs ASTRO! Aren’t these guys all friends on first name basis?

Same secret hand shake country club crew. You bet! Maybe they all laugh at the whole thing!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Man if there's one thing SDN, Twitter, and ASTRO/ARRO can agree on...it's that the ABR is really dropping the ball.

The enemy of my enemy and all that.

Paul Wallner strikes again. We are told once again by same old guy that nothing can be done or fixed. I simply don’t get why this guy is so important and his opinion matters so much. he needs to go. How much money do you need to make, Paul? 21st century corruption and all. How much money is enough? Just a little bit more...

 

[metallica81788]

ASTRO adding to the pressure for the ABR to cave and allow virtual administration

Very well done. Glad that it mentioned how much this exam impacts everyone's day-to-day life both in and out of the clinic. I hope it amounts to something.

Wonder when the threshold to actually start studying will be...

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

SCAROP on board as well

 

[Gfunk6]

SCAROP on board as well

Wow, they unanimously voted in favor of virtual oral exams *AND* consolidating all three written exams into a single one!

Go SCAROP!

 

[seper]

Let's see what Derm Board does (they are supposed to meet in late July in Tampa)

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Let's see what Derm Board does (they are supposed to meet in late July in Tampa)

dermatologists are in many ways hands down some of the smartest people in medicine. You know what they will do.

 

[seper]

dermatologists are in many ways hands down some of the smartest people in medicine. You know what they will do.

You’d be surprised. I am suspecting Derm will go ahead with in-person meet in July.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[90dayMD]

This is complete bull****.

So we're just supposed to have this hanging over our head indefinitely until something does or does not happen? Oral boards is not what is going to prevent or make this virus spread - it's going to do what it is going to do no matter what. People are making travel plans, spending money, taking review courses, studying and basing their entire lives on this test and now cannot make any more plans until this fear-mongering ends.

Same thing with our PM&R boards. They were cancelled in May, rescheduled to Sept., and now we got an email saying the in person oral boards are cancelled and they will be doing them virtually.

I think people across the board should be grandfathered in. Just like you mention, I also bought material, spent time studying, etc and now everything is up in the air.
For people who have passed written boards oral boards should be waived this year I think.

 

[radonconogs]

From this morning’s ASTRO RO Hub email:

The ASTRO consortium (ADROP, SCAROP, ARRO, and friends) conducted a ZOOM meeting on the topic last week. SCAROP and ARRO both offered vigorous support of the virtual options. ADROP has been in contact with the ABO about their virtual process, which is a work in process, but advancing. However, the ABR doesn't plan on doing virtual exams at this time for a variety of reasons but they remain open to the useage, depending on what other ABMS boards work out for virtual options. I hope that's a reasonable summary of a 1+ hour intense discussion.

Also discussed, and something that is near/dear to the heart of you (WRL) and Robert Amdur is the move to 1 written exam. You and Bob wrote on that topic quite eloquently here: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/.... The pandemic highlights the challenges associated with so many exams, each scored independently, and, as you mention, 92% of ABMS boards only have 1 written exam. Additionally, as our colleagues in ARRO have highlighted, residents are spending 160 hours on average studying for each exam. This is dramatically affecting their training experience, as described here: www.practicalradonc.org/article/S1879-8500(20)30107-7/....

Hopefully the pandemic will subside and we will return to a semblance of normal life. However, boarding of our residents will continue and streamlining the training and boarding process would be a long term benefit to our field. It's something we can and should do.

KRO
ADROP president

------------------------------
Kenneth Olivier
Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science Rochester
Rochester MN
507 (507) 266-1175


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[90dayMD]

From this morning’s ASTRO RO Hub email:

The ASTRO consortium (ADROP, SCAROP, ARRO, and friends) conducted a ZOOM meeting on the topic last week. SCAROP and ARRO both offered vigorous support of the virtual options. ADROP has been in contact with the ABO about their virtual process, which is a work in process, but advancing. However, the ABR doesn't plan on doing virtual exams at this time for a variety of reasons but they remain open to the useage, depending on what other ABMS boards work out for virtual options. I hope that's a reasonable summary of a 1+ hour intense discussion.

Also discussed, and something that is near/dear to the heart of you (WRL) and Robert Amdur is the move to 1 written exam. You and Bob wrote on that topic quite eloquently here: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/.... The pandemic highlights the challenges associated with so many exams, each scored independently, and, as you mention, 92% of ABMS boards only have 1 written exam. Additionally, as our colleagues in ARRO have highlighted, residents are spending 160 hours on average studying for each exam. This is dramatically affecting their training experience, as described here: www.practicalradonc.org/article/S1879-8500(20)30107-7/....

Hopefully the pandemic will subside and we will return to a semblance of normal life. However, boarding of our residents will continue and streamlining the training and boarding process would be a long term benefit to our field. It's something we can and should do.

KRO
ADROP president

------------------------------
Kenneth Olivier
Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science Rochester
Rochester MN
507 (507) 266-1175


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

92% of ABMS boards only have 1 written exam with no orals? Is that accurate? Then why are some boards requiring orals?

 

[radonconogs]

92% of ABMS boards only have 1 written exam with no orals? Is that accurate? Then why are some boards requiring orals?

My guess is one written exam, excluding whether or not they take orals


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

92% of ABMS boards only have 1 written exam with no orals? Is that accurate? Then why are some boards requiring orals?

From the paper
"Twenty-two of the 24 (92%) US Boards require residents to take a single written qualifying examination. Typically, this examination is approximately 300 to 350 multiple-choice questions over a period of 1 day for 8 to 10 hours. Other than the ABR, only 1 other US board requires multiple written examinations. Anesthesia residents take a 4-hour examination with 200 questions over at the end of their first year of anesthesia residency and another 4-hour written test with 200 questions after training."

 

[OTN]

We should call out both the good and the bad that happens in our field. On that note, I applaud KO for moving towards streamlining the boards for residents. Step in the right direction, and I truly believe he wants his residents to do well. I’m glad he’s advocating for them.

 

[scarbrtj]

We should call out both the good and the bad that happens in our field. On that note, I applaud KO for moving towards streamlining the boards for residents. Step in the right direction, and I truly believe he wants his residents to do well. I’m glad he’s advocating for them.

Also, it's currently fashionable to do so. Challenging "ABR privilege." A change from the past TBH.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I will give him credit sure, improvement is always better. it seems some of these “leaders” sway with the momentum and opinion rather than truly lead. People like Chirag Shah, Lee/Amdur led in my book and stepped forward when it was unpopular in their circles.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I will give him credit sure, improvement is always better. it seems some of these “leaders” sway with the momentum and opinion rather than truly lead. People like Chirag Shah, Lee/Amdur led in my book and stepped forward when it was unpopular in their circles.

I couldn't agree more. I heard Amdur talk about how he got the cold shoulder at ASTRO 2019 because of the PRO editorial about boards. He seems like a really stand-up guy who cares about what's best for the specialty and therefore the patients. If we could have more Amdurs and fewer Wallners I'd be a lot more optimistic about RadOnc.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I couldn't agree more. I heard Amdur talk about how he got the cold shoulder at ASTRO 2019 because of the PRO editorial about boards. He seems like a really stand-up guy who cares about what's best for the specialty and therefore the patients. If we could have more Amdurs and fewer Wallners I'd be a lot more optimistic about RadOnc.

classic rad onc move. They did the same to Shah. All of a sudden you are not invited to the cook off because you spoke your unpopular views. this is why ASTRO is a circle jerk of mostly sycophantic people. Everyone kisses the ring.

 

[Haybrant]

I couldn't agree more. I heard Amdur talk about how he got the cold shoulder at ASTRO 2019 because of the PRO editorial about boards. He seems like a really stand-up guy who cares about what's best for the specialty and therefore the patients. If we could have more Amdurs and fewer Wallners I'd be a lot more optimistic about RadOnc.

We haven’t talked about Wallner in a while. Is he still doing everything he was doing before in the same capacity as always? There are no consequences for being someone that is as old and tone deaf and decrepit as Wallner is there. Does he still have the full support of Kachnic too, the two peas in a pod?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

We haven’t talked about Wallner in a while. Is he still doing everything he was doing before in the same capacity as always? There are no consequences for being someone that is as old and tone deaf as Wallner is there. Does he still have the full support of Kachnic too, the two peas in a pod?

plenty of wallner discussions. Never forget. Look at recent ARRO letter, they discuss how PW basically said there are no good options and nothing they can do. He is totally unwilling to ever see other views.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Lee and Amdur are indeed standup docs.

 

[scarbrtj]

My Wallner story is 100% true and first hand sourced. In the IMRT Golden Era, Wallner saw a whole brain IMRT plan for the first time. And he said “This is not IMRT. When the fields are this big it can’t be IMRT and is impossible.” He was quite convinced. And unable to understand any new info. He’s what a writer would call a “static character.”

 

[Mandelin Rain]

My Wallner story is 100% true and first hand sourced. In the IMRT Golden Era, Wallner saw a whole brain IMRT plan for the first time. And he said “This is not IMRT. When the fields are this big it can’t be IMRT and is impossible.” He was quite convinced. And unable to understand any new info. He’s what a writer would call a “static character.”

Good thing he’s the arbiter of physics competency.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I heard someone asked Wallner once as he was leaving to cash a fat ABR and a 21C onc check out the back door. “Paul, how much money do you need to make?” He reportedly responded, “just a little bit more”. True story!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

My Wallner story is 100% true and first hand sourced. In the IMRT Golden Era, Wallner saw a whole brain IMRT plan for the first time. And he said “This is not IMRT. When the fields are this big it can’t be IMRT and is impossible.” He was quite convinced. And unable to understand any new info. He’s what a writer would call a “static character.”

totally believe it. These individuals were not from the “golden age”, they walked in with a pulse, not the sharpest tools in shed you read.

 

[scarbrtj]

totally believe it. These individuals were not from the “golden age”, they walked in with a pulse, not the sharpest tools in shed you read.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, DO.

 

[salubalu]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, DO.

I get the pun but don’t find such divisive comments all that funny.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

My Wallner story is 100% true and first hand sourced. In the IMRT Golden Era, Wallner saw a whole brain IMRT plan for the first time. And he said “This is not IMRT. When the fields are this big it can’t be IMRT and is impossible.” He was quite convinced. And unable to understand any new info. He’s what a writer would call a “static character.”

...really? My whole brain short circuited reading this.

 

[medgator]

My Wallner story is 100% true and first hand sourced. In the IMRT Golden Era, Wallner saw a whole brain IMRT plan for the first time. And he said “This is not IMRT. When the fields are this big it can’t be IMRT and is impossible.” He was quite convinced. And unable to understand any new info. He’s what a writer would call a “static character.”

That's the kind of person that matched in that era. Now they are Dept chairs and ABR trustees

 

[scarbrtj]

I get the pun but don’t find such divisive comments all that funny.

This loaded pun aimed at PW and PW only

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, DO.

Original quote
From GB Shaw's Man and Superman (with some edits)
RO Class 2019: I'm so discouraged. I failed the written boards.
Old RO: Don't worry. Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach. Those that can't teach administrate...

 

[medgator]

Original quote
From GB Shaw's Man and Superman (with some edits)
RO Class 2019: I'm so discouraged. I failed the written boards.
Old RO: Don't worry. Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach. Those that can't teach administrate...

Reminds me of the old saying... The top 3rd of the medical school class becomes the best teachers, the middle third becomes the best doctors and the bottom third makes the most money, so everyone wins?

 

[salubalu]

This loaded pun aimed at PW and PW only

More than happy to agree on that one

 

[deleted605854]

Guess no ABR RO orals for this year at all. Is anyone shocked ?

 

[scarbrtj]

Guess no ABR RO orals for this year at all. Is anyone shocked ?

maybe not shocked... shocked, shocked