Rosalind Franklin

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Annoyance is very different than being "thin skinned" and so offended that they can't handle it (as everyone saying WOW YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH THIS WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE A PHYSICIAN)

I agree. But the OP was definitely bothered by it, which then led many to judge that as being thin skinned. Not saying I agree or disagree with them.

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[deleted407021]

 

[Goro]

Smack him upside the head for me, will ya? I've got four cDNAs I've got to clone today.

No, I'm pretty sure goro has you on ignore.

 

[DokterMom]

I honestly can't believe that the general SDN convention of shortening the Rosalind Franklin name to 'Rosy' was ever intended to convey anything misogynistic or even disrespectful. But now knowing how the 'Rosy' nickname was used derogatorily in the past, I know I will certainly never do so again in the future. And I think that's really all the OP was really trying to say -- "Hey did you know? And now that you do, maybe we should...?" -- Seems like a pretty reasonable request, really.

Sadly, misogyny in the sciences is still very much alive and well. It's generally hard for men to see because they are by definition, almost never on the receiving end. And often, I suspect many don't even necessarily intend to be on the dishing out side - yet they are. Men routinely interrupt women and discount novel ideas as 'crazy' and 'clearly wrong' before even considering the possibility that they might be 'innovative' and correct. They just do...

The most enlightening articles I've read on the subject recently were written by transgender scientists who have experienced life in the sciences as both a man and woman and who have seen things from both perspectives. The following are, in my opinion, well worth reading --

http://www.autostraddle.com/dr-ben-barres-knows-that-misogyny-in-the-sciences-is-real-143199/
https://newrepublic.com/article/119239/transgender-people-can-explain-why-women-dont-advance-work
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html

 

[Lawpy]

 

[TJ15]

I honestly can't believe that the general SDN convention of shortening the Rosalind Franklin name to 'Rosy' was ever intended to convey anything misogynistic or even disrespectful. But now knowing how the 'Rosy' nickname was used derogatorily in the past, I know I will certainly never do so again in the future. And I think that's really all the OP was really trying to say -- "Hey did you know? And now that you do, maybe we should...?" -- Seems like a pretty reasonable request, really.

Sadly, misogyny in the sciences is still very much alive and well. It's generally hard for men to see because they are by definition, almost never on the receiving end. And often, I suspect many don't even necessarily intend to be on the dishing out side - yet they are. Men routinely interrupt women and discount novel ideas as 'crazy' and 'clearly wrong' before even considering the possibility that they might be 'innovative' and correct. They just do...

The most enlightening articles I've read on the subject recently were written by transgender scientists who have experienced life in the sciences as both a man and woman and who have seen things from both perspectives. The following are, in my opinion, well worth reading --

http://www.autostraddle.com/dr-ben-barres-knows-that-misogyny-in-the-sciences-is-real-143199/
https://newrepublic.com/article/119239/transgender-people-can-explain-why-women-dont-advance-work
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html

This was the perfect response. Saying misogyny is a problem is not being a social justice warrior, it's being a decent human being, and you summed it up perfectly

 

[TJ15]

Yeah I'm not saying I agree with the article 100%, and I agree that your point seems very valid. Still, I think that it's a mistake that modern day feminism constantly tries to proclaim superiority over, rather than equality with, men.

I think, at least for me and my close friends, even though we're technically "equal" with men, there are so many things that are unequal. Being paid less for the same jobs, rape culture in general, being nervous to interview when pregnant due to internal misogyny from PD. I imagine that many black people feel the same way about how they are supposedly "equal" yet black men are 2.5x more likely to be shot than a white man. I apologize for derailing the thread, but feminism is not about "hating men" or "wanting to be superior". It's almost about redefining (Idk if that's the right word to use) the word equality, because some of the so called equality in America is anything but.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I honestly can't believe that the general SDN convention of shortening the Rosalind Franklin name to 'Rosy' was ever intended to convey anything misogynistic or even disrespectful. But now knowing how the 'Rosy' nickname was used derogatorily in the past, I know I will certainly never do so again in the future. And I think that's really all the OP was really trying to say -- "Hey did you know? And now that you do, maybe we should...?" -- Seems like a pretty reasonable request, really.

Why does OP feel the need to defend Franklin? Because she's dead and can't defend herself? What could that possibly accomplish? To try and get the general and/or scientific public to recognize her achievements? Every biologist I've ever heard comment on the subject has always mentioned that Watson and Crick stole her thunder, so that can't be it. It's not like by stopping the use of "Rosy" that she'll magically be awarded a posthumous Nobel Prize or whatever.

So then it's to combat the misogyny in STEM fields? Pick a better angle then. What OP is doing is getting upset for someone else's sake, which doesn't solve anything. Those who are offended have voices; they'll speak up for themselves. It's just patronizing when someone gets offended for someone else.

 

[TJ15]

Why does OP feel the need to defend Franklin? Because she's dead and can't defend herself? What could that possibly accomplish? To try and get the general and/or scientific public to recognize her achievements? Every biologist I've ever heard comment on the subject has always mentioned that Watson and Crick stole her thunder, so that can't be it. It's not like by stopping the use of "Rosy" that she'll magically be awarded a posthumous Nobel Prize or whatever.

So then it's to combat the misogyny in STEM fields? Pick a better angle then. What OP is doing is getting upset for someone else's sake, which doesn't solve anything. Those who are offended have voices; they'll speak up for themselves. It's just patronizing when someone gets offended for someone else.

During the civil rights era, was it patronizing when white people got offended and did sit ins because they were offended by the horrendous treatment of black people? Not comparing the two, but just curious.

 

[Goro]

Indeed. One of the curses of the Millennial generation is that they have the mindset of "you can't say that, somebody might be offended."

Those who are offended have voices; they'll speak up for themselves. It's just patronizing when someone gets offended for someone else.

 

[Lost in Translation]

During the civil rights era, was it patronizing when white people got offended and did sit ins because they were offended by the horrendous treatment of black people? Not comparing the two, but just curious.

You know full well that and this are not the same things. But to answer your question, the black community was already speaking out, so the white community can be seen as standing in solidarity with them. That's perfectly fine and what should be happening.

What OP is doing is like this: If someone made a comment in my presence about the Chinese that might be considered offensive, I wouldn't want a bystander with no ties to Asian heritage to come to my culture's defense. If the remark was truly offensive, I'm fully capable of defending my own culture. To do that before I have the opportunity to is patronizing because you're making the assumptions that I should be offended (when maybe there is no reason to be offended) and that I am incapable of standing up for myself. Who are [figurative] you to tell me what should and shouldn't upset me?

 

[TJ15]

Indeed. One of the curses of the Millennial generation is that they have the mindset of "you can't say that, somebody might be offended."

Honestly curious, do you feel that the previous generation where it was okay to use slurs, and say things that wouldn't be considered polite today was a better generation? I want to ask people who have experienced both sides.

 

[TXMED_1695]

Talking to a wall.

Indeed. One of the curses of the Millennial generation is that they have the mindset of "you can't say that, somebody might be offended."

 

[TJ15]

You know full well that and this are not the same things. But to answer your question, the black community was already speaking out, so the white community can be seen as standing in solidarity with them.

If someone made a comment in my presence about the Chinese that might be considered offensive, I wouldn't want a bystander with no ties to Asian heritage to come to my culture's defense. If the remark was truly offensive, I'm fully capable of defending my own culture. To do that before I have the opportunity to is patronizing because you're making the assumption that I should be offended when maybe there is no reason to be offended. Who are [figurative] you to tell me what should and shouldn't upset me?

But another person of Chinese decent might want other people with no Asian ties to step in. What i'm saying is that everyone has the right to voice what upsets them. Just like everyone also has the right to say "hey this doesn't offend me". There have been countless times in history where no one stood up for a group being victimized and it ended with bad consequences. Again: not comparing the two, but just explaining my point of view

 

[Lost in Translation]

But another person of Chinese decent might want other people with no Asian ties to step in.

And that's the perfect example of making an assumption. Chinese people are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves. For example, there are plenty of us upset at the higher standards we're held to when it comes to admissions at both the UG and professional level, and there are Chinese (and other Asian) advocates fighting this. We appreciate that other, non-Asian races are also echoing our complaints and aiding our movement, but that's very different from if these groups were the first ones to speak up about the issue, which would basically be telling us, "Hey! This is happening at schools around the country! Why aren't you getting upset about it?" Uhm, hello? We are upset about it. You're welcome to fight with us, but we never asked you to fight for us.

 

[TXMED_1695]

You blow everything way out of proportion, and sensationalize all your points. Your statement has never been true.

There have been countless times in history where no one stood up for a group being victimized and it ended with bad consequences

 

[TJ15]

And that's the perfect example of making an assumption. Chinese people are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves. For example, there are plenty of us upset at the higher standards we're held to when it comes to admissions at both the UG and professional level, and there are Chinese (and other Asian) advocates fighting this. We appreciate that other, non-Asian races are also echoing our complaints and aiding our movement, but that's very different from if these groups were the first ones to speak up about the issue, which would basically be telling us, "Hey! This is happening at schools around the country! Why aren't you getting upset about it?"

As an Asian person, i'm perfectly aware of the higher standards. But I disagree with you on a person of non-Asian decent speaking out. I know plenty of fellow Asians who are fine with this. But we disagree on this haha

 

[TJ15]

You blow everything way out of proportion, and sensationalize all your points. Your statement has never been true.

Alright haha, I disagree with you, but I enjoy having discussions with people of differing opinions. Good luck with your app cycle!

 

[CerseiLannister]

Why does OP feel the need to defend Franklin? Because she's dead and can't defend herself? What could that possibly accomplish? To try and get the general and/or scientific public to recognize her achievements? Every biologist I've ever heard comment on the subject has always mentioned that Watson and Crick stole her thunder, so that can't be it. It's not like by stopping the use of "Rosy" that she'll magically be awarded a posthumous Nobel Prize or whatever.

So then it's to combat the misogyny in STEM fields? Pick a better angle then. What OP is doing is getting upset for someone else's sake, which doesn't solve anything. Those who are offended have voices; they'll speak up for themselves. It's just patronizing when someone gets offended for someone else.

Obviously, I am not looking out for Franklin's feelings because she is no longer around. Watson was criticized for his memoir not because he was personally offending Franklin (she died by this point), but because he was making mysogyny widely accessible. I think it is a legitimate point to say "Rosey" is a vestige/ artifact of mysogyny... and personally, because of its history, I have a difficult time disassociating the two when in reference to Franklin.

A possibly somewhat-decent analogy: let's say Jackie Robinson was given a derogatory nickname by his baseball peers at the time (Let's say Robin) to delegitimize his hard work because of the color of his skin. "Robin", in this hypothetical case in referring to this individual, was used in a racist manner. Now let's say a school was erected in his honor posthumously. Can you see how it can make one feel uneasy if someone were to refer to it as Robin Univeristy. "Why be offended? Jackie Robinson is long dead!"

I am not trying to be sanctimonious or cause unnecessary trouble, but I feel a bit uneasy when I see "Rosey" thrown around on these boards. Whether one thinks I am going to fail out of residency because of this... or I am the poster child for a terrible sucky generation... well that's ones own prerogative. Word choice is also one's own prerogative and I think one should say what he or she wants. But is it not doing you a disservice shielding you from knowing the effects your words may have on other people?

 

[order66.exe]

I used "mysoginistic" because the initial use of "Rosy" was clearly mysoginistic, along with the repeated complaints by her peers that she didn't pretty herself up/ wear lipstick to lab.

I am not accusing anyone of mysoginism, but we are continuing a legacy of mysoginism perpetrated against female science faculty, aware or not.

How come we don't see a deragatory nickname used against Einstein (I either see "Einstein" or AECOM)? Mainly because there is no legacy of male descrimination. If someone can name me one cute nickname for any of the many medical schools named after a man, then I would happily concede you have a good point.

People call Vanderbilt "Vandy"

 

[CerseiLannister]

People call Vanderbilt "Vandy"

OK, but was Vanderbilt ever called "Vandy" to delegitimize standing/ work based on sex?

EDIT: I do want to concede, however, that you did provide an accurate answer to my challenge. I also am fully aware that those who use "Rosey" on this thread are not mysogynistic. However, the points I raise above, and throughout this thread still remain.

 

[Chelsea FC]

During the civil rights era, was it patronizing when white people got offended and did sit ins because they were offended by the horrendous treatment of black people? Not comparing the two, but just curious.

Thats exactly what u did

 

[TJ15]

Thats exactly what u did

Clarified to mean I'm not comparing them in severity.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

Why does OP feel the need to defend Franklin? Because she's dead and can't defend herself? What could that possibly accomplish? To try and get the general and/or scientific public to recognize her achievements? Every biologist I've ever heard comment on the subject has always mentioned that Watson and Crick stole her thunder, so that can't be it. It's not like by stopping the use of "Rosy" that she'll magically be awarded a posthumous Nobel Prize or whatever.

So then it's to combat the misogyny in STEM fields? Pick a better angle then. What OP is doing is getting upset for someone else's sake, which doesn't solve anything. Those who are offended have voices; they'll speak up for themselves. It's just patronizing when someone gets offended for someone else.

OP could be educating others on a lesser known fact that would have mattered a lot to the person who it is about.

It's not so much that you get offended for something else- it's that you bring attention to something that people might be unaware of.

For some reason this is often confused with SJWing or slacktivism.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

OK, but was Vanderbilt ever called "Vandy" to delegitimize standing/ work based on sex?

I think everyone's point is that people shorten the school's name out of convenience, and had no idea this was ever a relevant fact.

As in, they were completely ignorant. Now we know. Just leave it at that.

 

[Chelsea FC]

The Ice-cream song has a early adaption(not the original) that was highly racist . I think its poor taste for anyone to patronize any ice-cream truck playing this music

 

[Lost In Transcription]

I am not trying to be sanctimonious or cause unnecessary trouble, but I feel a bit uneasy when I see "Rosey" thrown around on these boards. Whether one thinks I am going to fail out of residency because of this... or I am the poster child for a terrible sucky generation... well that's ones own prerogative. Word choice is also one's own prerogative and I think one should say what he or she wants. But is it not doing you a disservice shielding you from knowing the effects your words may have on other people?

You can't convince people to change their actions, but usually it is more effective to just give people info and leave it at that.

I've found that people who value their autonomy more than being respectful towards issues that ARE JUST THINGS THAT SPECIAL MILLENNIAL SNOWFLAKES GET ALL HUFFY ABOUT are more open to listening if you just explain something they hadn't considered before.

 

[bunchesonothing]

I believe I get where you're coming from, but I feel as though bringing up calls of historic sexism where nearly no one calling the school Rosy is actually intending on that sexism, nor even realizes the implication of that specific name (nor most reading said references)... is almost like rehashing an old problem that no longer is contextually current (I understand sexism is still very alive, but I don't think references to it fit here well anymore). I understand why you have troubles separating the historical element and whatnot and I will most likely never call the school by that name again now that I know...

And I get honoring her memory... but...

I have bigger problems with her not actually liking the use of the name and it being used now than any call backs to inherent sexism... for some reason.

 

[CerseiLannister]

I believe I get where you're coming from, but I feel as though bringing up calls of historic sexism where nearly no one calling the school Rosy is actually intending on that sexism, nor even realizes the implication of that specific name (nor most reading said references)... is almost like rehashing an old problem that no longer is contextually current (I understand sexism is still very alive, but I don't think references to it fit here well anymore). I understand why you have troubles separating the historical element and whatnot and I will most likely never call the school by that name again now that I know...

And I get honoring her memory... but...

I have bigger problems with her not actually liking the use of the name and it being used now than any call backs to inherent sexism... for some reason.

I 100% agree no one is intentionally being sexist, and I don't believe I posted anything that directly accused a user of such behavior (I have no animosity for anyone here)... but there is good chance more people know about the implication of "Rosy Franklin" than you are giving credit for.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

 

[Goro]

Again with the straw man arguments!

"Rosy" is not a slur to a med school. That's the context in which we're using the term. I use the term Gtown as shorthand for Georgetown. Am I disrespecting the residents of that DC suburb?

Saying "Rosy" Franklin when referring to the scientist would be the same as saying "Tommy Jefferson" when referring to the president, or "Al Einstein" to the scientist. They simply weren't known as that.

Would it make you happy, when I recommend med schools, to use "Tommy J" when talking about Jefferson?

Honestly curious, do you feel that the previous generation where it was okay to use slurs, and say things that wouldn't be considered polite today was a better generation? I want to ask people who have experienced both sides.

 

[bunchesonothing]

Don't know. Could be a good use of SDN's poll feature.<--- in reference to who knew about the implications of Rosy.

 

[CerseiLannister]

Again with the straw man arguments!

"Rosy" is not a slur to a med school. That's the context in which we're using the term. I use the term Gtown as shorthand for Georgetown. Am I disrespecting the residents of that DC suburb?

Saying "Rosy" Franklin when referring to the scientist would be the same as saying "Tommy Jefferson" when referring to the president, or "Al Einstein" to the scientist. They simply weren't known as that.

Would it make you happy, when I recommend med schools, to use "Tommy J" when talking about Jefferson?

I know we already agreed to disagree, but if you don't mind, I would like to respectfully disagree [again] with your analogy. "Rosy Franklin" is referring to a school that was named after Rosalind Franklin. The only reason "Rosy Franklin" is unsettling and not any of the other examples you used is because "Rosy Franklin" was a very popular sexist slur used to delegitimize the work of the scientist. If you want to dissociate Franklin the scientist from Franklin the school, that's fine. However, in context of its ugly history, I see the use of "Rosy Franklin" carrying out the legacy of 1950's mysogyny. I know you disagree with my line of thought but I wanted to clarify why I don't think the Jefferson/Einstein examples were very apropos.

 

[Goro]

Here's real sexism in action: In the mid 1960s, after my father died, my mom took over his sales job. She was deliberately paid less in salary. Why? Because she was a woman.

That's sexism. That's misogyny. Just because something offends you, or hurts your feelings, doesn't mean it's sexist, or any other ___ist or ___ism. So develop a thicker skin or residency directors and attendings will eat you alive.

I know we already agreed to disagree, but if you don't mind, I would like to respectfully disagree [again] with your analogy. "Rosy Franklin" is referring to a school that was named after Rosalind Franklin. The only reason "Rosy Franklin" is unsettling and not any of the other examples you used is because "Rosy Franklin" was a very popular sexist slur used to delegitimize the work of the scientist. If you want to dissociate Franklin the scientist from Franklin the school, that's fine. However, in context of its ugly history, I see the use of "Rosy Franklin" carrying out the legacy of 1950's mysogyny. I know you disagree with my line of thought but I wanted to clarify why I don't think the Jefferson/Einstein examples were very apropos.

 

[TJ15]

Again with the straw man arguments!

"Rosy" is not a slur to a med school. That's the context in which we're using the term. I use the term Gtown as shorthand for Georgetown. Am I disrespecting the residents of that DC suburb?

Saying "Rosy" Franklin when referring to the scientist would be the same as saying "Tommy Jefferson" when referring to the president, or "Al Einstein" to the scientist. They simply weren't known as that.

Would it make you happy, when I recommend med schools, to use "Tommy J" when talking about Jefferson?

I.....asked about what generation of people you preferred/thought was better. That was my question...

 

[CerseiLannister]

Here's real sexism in action: In the mid 1960s, after my father died, my mom took over his sales job. She was deliberately paid less in salary. Why? Because she was a woman.

That's sexism. That's misogyny. Just because something offends you, or hurts your feelings, doesn't mean it's sexist, or any other ___ist or ___ism. So develop a thicker skin or residency directors and attendings will eat you alive.

SDN =/= real life. This is my free time outside of my job (major hospital in big urban setting), and with my free time, I want to address something that has been weighing on my mind. No, I do not think you are sexist. But yes, I think words can affect others in negative ways, even if unknowingly. I do not see how that notion is offensive or troubling to you, but I am willing to discuss if you wish.

At work, I do not ever talk back to my boss, even if she calls me names in front of the rest of the lab. I politely nod my head and do my work. If she is disappointed, I put in extra hours.... I would never dare correct her semantics or go over the history of a scientist. I am there only to work. But with my free time, I feel like I should be able to express my point of view of how I feel about "Rosy Franklin" without ad hominem retorts.

Sorry, I can only hear about my residency performance years in advance so many times.

 

[TJ15]

SDN =/= real life. This is my free time outside of my job (major hospital in big urban setting), and with my free time, I want to address something that has been weighing on my mind. No, I do not think you are sexist. But yes, I think words can affect others in negative ways, even if unknowingly. I do not see how that notion is offensive or troubling to you, but I am willing to discuss if you wish.

At work, I do not ever talk back to my boss, even if she calls me names in front of the rest of the lab. I politely nod my head and do my work. If she is disappointed, I put in extra hours.... I would never dare correct her semantics or go over the history of a scientist. I am there only to work. But with my free time, I feel like I should be able to express my point of view of how I feel about "Rosy Franklin" without ad hominem retorts.

Sorry, I can only hear about my residency performance years in advance so many times.

I think this generation can change this notion of residency directors/attendings eating us alive due to "thin skin". When we are higher up we have the choice not to eat people up because they feel "sensitive" or whatever, because we value other's beliefs and opinions and don't think of it as being touchy or too sensitive. If I have a med student/resident who has questions about something being sexist/racist etc, I want to be able to listen to them and not just dismiss them.
Also: I read an article on a middle schooler who committed suicide the other day because he was bullied non-stop, and all his teachers would say was "grow up, get a thicker skin, everyone goes through this, man up etc". It was so sad that instead of addressing the bullying, teachers made it seem like it was his fault.

 

[lpp06]

We can always use the school's full proper name -

Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science

 

[CerseiLannister]

I think this generation can change this notion of residency directors/attendings eating us alive due to "thin skin". When we are higher up we have the choice not to eat people up because they feel "sensitive" or whatever, because we value other's beliefs and opinions and don't think of it as being touchy or too sensitive. If I have a med student/resident who has questions about something being sexist/racist etc, I want to be able to listen to them and not just dismiss them.
Also: I read an article on a middle schooler who committed suicide the other day because he was bullied non-stop, and all his teachers would say was "grow up, get a thicker skin, everyone goes through this, man up etc". It was so sad that instead of addressing the bullying, teachers made it seem like it was his fault.

I just went to a panel moderated by a prominent physician-scientist who performed seminal work on HIV. During his time in surgery in 60s/70s, the senior doctors at Stanford liberally used the homophobic F-word. As a closeted gay man, there was nothing he could do when he was at the bottom of the hierarchy. Sometimes one has to zone it out and just keep pushing forward. However, it is nice to see that he is out and proud now... and he is helping change the culture a tad now that he is in a position of power.

 

[cke11]

I commented on this about 5 min after it was posted by OP and people are still arguing about it?
All of you please come to California, you can stay at my house, and I will teach you how to relax/ignore petty arguments.

 

[edgerock24]

I commented on this about 5 min after it was posted by OP and people are still arguing about it?
All of you please come to California, you can stay at my house, and I will teach you how to relax/ignore petty arguments.

Totally agree. Honestly, OP, who cares. You should have more important things to worry about than random people calling a dead scientist/the associated medical school by a name that she disliked.

 

[candbgirl]

I commented on this about 5 min after it was posted by OP and people are still arguing about it?
All of you please come to California, you can stay at my house, and I will teach you how to relax/ignore petty arguments.

I can't believe this thread is so long. I would have thought it should have died yesterday. OP if this is the only issue that riles you up you just aren't looking hard enough for causes. And if you don't have anything else to do find someone who you can help . I guarantee you Rosy F doesn't care what people call her.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[ChymeofPassion]

God my generation is embarrassing

 

[Goro]

I surprised that someone hasn't demanded yet that WashU, GWU and Jefferson change their names because the two presidents were slave owners. There's some town in CA that people wanted the name changed on the same pretext.

God my generation is embarrassing

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Is anyone else a bit bothered by the pervasive use of the nickname "Rosy" when referring to Rosalind Franklin on these forums? I did not apply to that school, but I am still annoyed when I see it used.

Records show that she was widely treated unfairly by her chauvinistic peers. Rosalind was called "Rosy", a name she despised, typically behind her back when male colleagues were referred to by their proper names.

Why are we continuing that ugly legacy?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I surprised that someone hasn't demanded yet that WashU, GWU and Jefferson change their names because the two presidents were slave owners. There's some town in CA that people wanted the name changed on the same pretext.

There's a statue in Santa Fe that used the word "Savages" to describe American Indians when it was built (many, many moons ago). They erected a plaque asking people not to judge the use of such terms out of historical context, and then they physically removed the little rectangle of granite where the word was. I mean, I know that's an offensive word, but I still thought the lengths they went to erase it from history were a little extreme.

Not likening RF to this at all, btw.

 

[tmazz235]

Anyone know if Rosy gurl was hot? pics pls

 

[leonardoson]

Is anyone else a bit bothered by the pervasive use of the nickname "Rosy" when referring to Rosalind Franklin on these forums? I did not apply to that school, but I am still annoyed when I see it used.

Records show that she was widely treated unfairly by her chauvinistic peers. Rosalind was called "Rosy", a name she despised, typically behind her back when male colleagues were referred to by their proper names.

Why are we continuing that ugly legacy?

Did you just take a sociology class and have come to educate us?

 

[CerseiLannister]

I surprised that someone hasn't demanded yet that WashU, GWU and Jefferson change their names because the two presidents were slave owners. There's some town in CA that people wanted the name changed on the same pretext.

And you see this as completely tantamount to using a nickname used to slander a female scientist within the past century? Regardless of the validity of changing names of aforementioned institutions, I believe your premise is built on a false equivalency. You appear more eager to attack the type of person you assume I am rather than consider any of my points. I bet if James Watson were reading this thread, he would take pride that his "Rosy Franklin" defamation continues to this day, regardless of the intentions of those who use it.

Obviously, there are many more important things on my plate. I really do not care about the personal attacks that ironically flood this thread. What is more important is that perhaps a few more people now know history of "Rosy" and its use to antagonize an impressive scientist. To me, it is a vestige/ artifact of a mysogynisic practice. To me, to use it in association with "Rosolind Franklin" is in poor taste. You are more than welcomed to disagree and use your freedom to use whatever language you like. I am kind of surprised the kind of backlash it got. Indeed, your very first post to me was a proud proclamation that you not only disagree, but you will continue to use Rosy to "annoy a SJW". Well, just take a look at all of the posts of this thread. Ask yourself: is it really me that is annoyed and short-tempered?

 

[leonardoson]

I take offense to the bold. Newton is clearly better than Einstein

/fake outrage

I second this. Einstein's the most POPULAR scientist of all time.