Roseman vs NYU

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africantoothfairy

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I recently got accepted to Roseman and NYU. i know everyone says to go to the cheapest but my concern is that I go to Roseman and struggle clinically upon graduation more than I would in NYU, in which case I’d prefer to pay extra for better quality education and preparation.

NYU
Pros
-an hour commute so closer to home to be with family and friends
-more established than Roseman
- Better for specializing with in house specialties (i want to do peds)
- more diversity which is important to me
- you see 5-8 patients a day, great clinically
- better network

Cons
- I estimated 600k after living and tuition
- larger class size
- strict remediation policy
- heard faculty is not that supportive

Roseman
Pros
- 3 year program
- pass/fail
- very safe area
- supportive faculty, will work with you to pass
-470k tuition and living so 130k cheaper

Cons
-far away from home (6 hour flight, across the country)
- patients are seen in teams of 3, you’ll never have your own patient
- everyone says it’s near impossible to specialize there
-complex cases are always referred out/not much clinical experience as I would like
-not diverse at all

With everything in mind, can anyone give any advice on which school to go to?

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Most people here will say Roseman due to it being the obviously better choice financially.

Sounds like you want to go to NYU for personal reasons so just know you will be in an almost insurmountable amount of debt and it will likely take you the rest of your working life to pay off or you may never be able to pay it off.

Keep in mind that borrowing the extra 130k is not paying for that school it’s borrowing extra for that school you won’t know if it’s worth it to you borrowing that money or not until after you’ve paid that money off so you won’t have paid the extra money for a long time after you finish school. So unless you are paying cash for your school now don’t say you’d rather pay more for it now because you likely aren’t paying for it now you are borrowing for it now and you pay for it later over 10-25 years.

You will probably regret going to Roseman if you do while you are in school and you will probably regret going to NYU after school. Either way it’s going to be a challenge you just have to choose which challenge you want to take on. Good luck!
 
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Also I just put in the cost of attendance of NYU and for four years it is 655k not including increases in tuition or accumulated interest while you are there. Taking those into account is guess you be siting at 700k after you graduate. Below are two calculations one for each school including their increase tuition and accumulated interest (estimate). That monthly payment is what you will be paying for the next 25 years. I’m not trying to be pessimistic but it’s a huge undertaking so you need to understand what this looks like. You will still survive though you will likely make between 10-12k post tax take home income so subtract those numbers from your take home pay and you can see the affect each choice will have on your quality of life for the next 25 years. This isn’t just for you but for anyone trying to make these choices. Good luck! I wish you the best. Never give up. Life as a dentist is good, but it is hard and the decisions you make today will affect your future going forward for years to come.
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I recently got accepted to Roseman and NYU. i know everyone says to go to the cheapest but my concern is that I go to Roseman and struggle clinically upon graduation more than I would in NYU, in which case I’d prefer to pay extra for better quality education and preparation.

NYU
Pros
-an hour commute so closer to home to be with family and friends
-more established than Roseman
- Better for specializing with in house specialties (i want to do peds)
- more diversity which is important to me
- you see 5-8 patients a day, great clinically
- better network

Cons
- I estimated 600k after living and tuition
- larger class size
- strict remediation policy
- heard faculty is not that supportive

Roseman
Pros
- 3 year program
- pass/fail
- very safe area
- supportive faculty, will work with you to pass
-470k tuition and living so 130k cheaper

Cons
-far away from home (6 hour flight, across the country)
- patients are seen in teams of 3, you’ll never have your own patient
- everyone says it’s near impossible to specialize there
-complex cases are always referred out/not much clinical experience as I would like
-not diverse at all

With everything in mind, can anyone give any advice on which school to go to?
not 130k cheaper
27.66% cheaper (before interest)
difference between retiring in 30 years vs 38.298 years (not including interest)
plus you graduate from roseman in 3 years, so you get one more year of income (think of it as an extra year of peak income instead of an extra year of beginning income)
and the difference in terms of faculty/staff caring about students and in terms of competition between students is night and day...
 
Well aside from family, I suppose my biggest concern is not getting good or even decent clinical experience with Roseman having students work in teams of 3 on 1 patient. I also would like to specialize in peds and move back to NJ but heard Roseman wouldn’t help me specialize especially if I’d like to go back to NJ to ultimately do residency and practice there. I’m not super knowledgeable on how that would work so any insight is appreciated!
Sounds like you want to go to NYU for personal reasons so just know you will be in an almost insurmountable amount of debt and it will likely take you the rest of your working life to pay off or you may never be able to pay it off.
 
Specializing in dentistry is not the same as in medicine (PASS is not ERAS). Primary goal in dental school is to get fully competent in your general dentistry skills as possible. You won't have any trouble finding a ped dent residency in NY after you graduate with solid skills.

 
Well aside from family, I suppose my biggest concern is not getting good or even decent clinical experience with Roseman having students work in teams of 3 on 1 patient. I also would like to specialize in peds and move back to NJ but heard Roseman wouldn’t help me specialize especially if I’d like to go back to NJ to ultimately do residency and practice there. I’m not super knowledgeable on how that would work so any insight is appreciated!
So, I am currently a Roseman student in the 3-year program, and I can tell you that Roseman struggles to get people into all residency programs besides pediatric dentistry. Practically everyone who applies to pediatric residency gets accepted. Everyone from Roseman who applies to pediatric residency gets multiple interviews, most of whom are accepted. If you were talking about wanting to do endo, ortho, OMFS, then I would say it would be very, very difficult to get into those residences directly from Roseman; however, for peds, you shouldn't have any issue getting in.

Also at Roseman it isn't 3 on 1 patient, it's 2:1. You will typically be working with an upper classmate (D3 or D4) who will work as your mentor when you see patients for if you have any questions or anything. If they can't answer your questions than you could always go to the attending doctor. Even if they do answer your questions you can always go to the attending faculty for advice as well.
Clinic at Roseman:
When you first start at roseman your D1 year you will probably start clinical rotations within a few weeks. This will be your 1st exposure to patients at Roseman, where you are only assisting the D3/D4 and learning what it's like to have a patient-provider interaction and get a feel as to how the clinic is run at Roseman. As you progress in your didactic courses at roseman you will start to be allowed to do more than assist in clinic. Once you take Radiology, you can start taking radiographs. Once you take perio you can start to do cleanings, the resto courses - restorations... My cohort started classes at the end of June and I did my 1st restoration on a patient around November (simple Class V resto). Anyways, your D1 year of school you will hardly be in clinic, maybe 1 morning a week (if that). At the start of your D2 year you will be in clinic every day either in the morning or afternoon (5 days a week). At Roseman, we typically will see 2 patients in the morning and 2 patients in the afternoon. Most of the time you will be paired with another dental student while seeing the patients. With the new curriculum for the 3-year program, you will be done with all didactic coursework after around 18 months and will be full-time in the clinic 5 days a week, morning and afternoon until you graduate.

Honestly, you get out of clinic what you put in. If you go into it wanting to learn as much as possible and do as many procedures as possible that's great, you can for sure do that! If you just want to do the minimums to graduate and not develop your hand skills in dental school, that would also be an option. You would have a mix of both types of people in your class.

Estimated Cost question:
Also where are you getting $470k for tuition and living at Roseman? Is that after interest? Last year I believe tuition went up 4% (around +$4k) y/y and lets say on average for you tuition and fees at Roseman would be $115k per year = $345k are you planning on spending $42k per year on living expenses? I currently pay $1,100 for rent, and that's by far my biggest expense per month for living - (around $14k per year on housing). If you don't do roommates you could get a nice 1-2 bedroom apartment 5-7 mins from school for $1,200-$1,600 a month. Heck I've seen nice townhomes in really nice areas for $1,675 per month, Utah very inexpensive for living compared to NYU.

My estimated cost at Roseman:
For myself I am estimating my cost at Roseman to be $330k for tuition and fees (current D2) and around $70k for living expenses over the 3 years at Roseman (total cost $400k). Basically, I budget around $2k per month for living expenses (Food, shelter, car, etc.). Some months, I go over that budget, and others, I go under it, but you can for sure live in Utah for the next 3 years decently comfortable with $2k a month.
 
not 130k cheaper
27.66% cheaper (before interest)
difference between retiring in 30 years vs 38.298 years (not including interest)
plus you graduate from roseman in 3 years, so you get one more year of income (think of it as an extra year of peak income instead of an extra year of beginning income)
and the difference in terms of faculty/staff caring about students and in terms of competition between students is night and day...
The added year of income makes a huge difference IMO. 1 less year of interest as well.

The current total cost at Roseman:

Total Cost D1: $114,050
Total Cost D2: $108,550
Total Cost D3: $107,900​

Total: $330k (doesn't account for tuition increase every year)

Current total cost at NYU:



Total Cost D1: $115,326
Total Cost D2: $114,518
Total Cost D3: $114,518
Total Cost D4: $114,518

Total: $458,880 (doesn't account for tuition increase every year)

That is a total of $128k different + a year of income if you went to Roseman.

Also, the living expenses in NY are going to be significantly higher than in SLC. Realistically, they will probably be double.
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Plus because the Original Post is interested in applying to pediatric residency. They would be able to apply to peds a full cycle earlier than if they went to NYU.
 
Well aside from family, I suppose my biggest concern is not getting good or even decent clinical experience with Roseman having students work in teams of 3 on 1 patient. I also would like to specialize in peds and move back to NJ but heard Roseman wouldn’t help me specialize especially if I’d like to go back to NJ to ultimately do residency and practice there. I’m not super knowledgeable on how that would work so any insight is appreciated!
True. And fighting for patients is a real concern at Roseman as patients are assigned to teams. So you may not even get to see any patients at all.
 
True. And fighting for patients is a real concern at Roseman as patients are assigned to teams. So you may not even get to see any patients at all.
I am going to have to disagree with these statements. Yes, you are assigned to teams at Roseman, as well as the patients, however, you are also assigned to a chair on your team. The procedure that they put in the chair that you are assigned to depends on how many procedures you have for each type of procedure as well as if you have completed your FPEs or Competencies for procedures compared to your classmates and team members. For example, Say you have already completed all your FPEs and competency for posterior tooth restorations. However, I still need to challenge for a competency for a posterior tooth resto. The scheduler will put the patient that needs a #31 MO restoration in my chair because I still need that requirement instead of in your chair.

On my team I have never had any issues with getting any requirements done and have ever fought with a team member to get a patient case. Typically in clinic because we have two providers working together, we both take 1 patient in the morning and same thing as the afternoon. We will talk with each other and see who wants to do what procedures, sometimes I will do both other times the D4 will do both. But typically we both act as the primary doctor for 1 patient during the morning session. If you need a certain FPE or competency done, all you do is let the attending doctor know that you would like to get an FPE or competency, and you will do the procedure. I have never had any issues with anyone on my team about seeing patients or getting requirements done. I don't know of a single event where someone was fighting over getting a patient case with another person on my team. It is unheard of, at least on my team.
 
I am going to have to disagree with these statements. Yes, you are assigned to teams at Roseman, as well as the patients, however, you are also assigned to a chair on your team. The procedure that they put in the chair that you are assigned to depends on how many procedures you have for each type of procedure as well as if you have completed your FPEs or Competencies for procedures compared to your classmates and team members. For example, Say you have already completed all your FPEs and competency for posterior tooth restorations. However, I still need to challenge for a competency for a posterior tooth resto. The scheduler will put the patient that needs a #31 MO restoration in my chair because I still need that requirement instead of in your chair.

On my team I have never had any issues with getting any requirements done and have ever fought with a team member to get a patient case. Typically in clinic because we have two providers working together, we both take 1 patient in the morning and same thing as the afternoon. We will talk with each other and see who wants to do what procedures, sometimes I will do both other times the D4 will do both. But typically we both act as the primary doctor for 1 patient during the morning session. If you need a certain FPE or competency done, all you do is let the attending doctor know that you would like to get an FPE or competency, and you will do the procedure. I have never had any issues with anyone on my team about seeing patients or getting requirements done. I don't know of a single event where someone was fighting over getting a patient case with another person on my team. It is unheard of, at least on my team.
Maybe it's unheard of on your team. It doesn't mean it isn't a commonplace issue on other people's teams. It is very commonplace from what I've heard.
 
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I recently got accepted to Roseman and NYU. i know everyone says to go to the cheapest but my concern is that I go to Roseman and struggle clinically upon graduation more than I would in NYU, in which case I’d prefer to pay extra for better quality education and preparation.

NYU
Pros
-an hour commute so closer to home to be with family and friends
-more established than Roseman
- Better for specializing with in house specialties (i want to do peds)
- more diversity which is important to me
- you see 5-8 patients a day, great clinically
- better network

Cons
- I estimated 600k after living and tuition
- larger class size
- strict remediation policy
- heard faculty is not that supportive

Roseman
Pros
- 3 year program
- pass/fail
- very safe area
- supportive faculty, will work with you to pass
-470k tuition and living so 130k cheaper

Cons
-far away from home (6 hour flight, across the country)
- patients are seen in teams of 3, you’ll never have your own patient
- everyone says it’s near impossible to specialize there
-complex cases are always referred out/not much clinical experience as I would like
-not diverse at all

With everything in mind, can anyone give any advice on which school to go to?
Can you elaborate on the diversity issue at Roseman? What do you mean by it’s not diverse at all?
 
I am going to have to disagree with these statements. Yes, you are assigned to teams at Roseman, as well as the patients, however, you are also assigned to a chair on your team. The procedure that they put in the chair that you are assigned to depends on how many procedures you have for each type of procedure as well as if you have completed your FPEs or Competencies for procedures compared to your classmates and team members. For example, Say you have already completed all your FPEs and competency for posterior tooth restorations. However, I still need to challenge for a competency for a posterior tooth resto. The scheduler will put the patient that needs a #31 MO restoration in my chair because I still need that requirement instead of in your chair.

On my team I have never had any issues with getting any requirements done and have ever fought with a team member to get a patient case. Typically in clinic because we have two providers working together, we both take 1 patient in the morning and same thing as the afternoon. We will talk with each other and see who wants to do what procedures, sometimes I will do both other times the D4 will do both. But typically we both act as the primary doctor for 1 patient during the morning session. If you need a certain FPE or competency done, all you do is let the attending doctor know that you would like to get an FPE or competency, and you will do the procedure. I have never had any issues with anyone on my team about seeing patients or getting requirements done. I don't know of a single event where someone was fighting over getting a patient case with another person on my team. It is unheard of, at least on my team.
What’s the diversity like at Roseman? OP mentioned that it’s not diverse at all, what does that mean? Do you feel that way as well?
 
What’s the diversity like at Roseman? OP mentioned that it’s not diverse at all, what does that mean? Do you feel that way as well?
The majority of students at Roseman are White or Asian. My class has a 50/50 girl-to-guy ratio. The state of Utah is known for being one of the less diverse states compared to the majority of states in the US
 
The majority of students at Roseman are White or Asian. My class has a 50/50 girl-to-guy ratio. The state of Utah is known for being one of the less diverse states compared to the majority of states in the US
Aren’t Indians also Asian though? What percentage is White?
 
Aren’t Indians also Asian though? What percentage is White?
Yes, they are; Indian Asians are the most common type of Asian at Roseman (around +15% of our class have family from different parts of India). Then the other +15% is a good mix of people that have family from Thailand, China, Korea, etc.

I would probably say around 55% are White and 30% are Asian in my class.
 
Yes, they are; Indian Asians are the most common type of Asian at Roseman (around +15% of our class have family from different parts of India). Then the other +15% is a good mix of people that have family from Thailand, China, Korea, etc.

I would probably say around 55% are White and 30% are Asian in my class.
How do you know their family is from these places? Did you ask each of them?
 
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Maybe it's unheard of on your team. It doesn't mean it isn't a commonplace issue on other people's teams. It is very commonplace from what I've heard.
I don't believe this is a common issue at Roseman.

Could I see this happening for RPD or cases that are more difficult to come across. Absolutely, that could be a case where some people fight over completing those requirements. However, I haven't seen this happen myself (yet). But for common procedures like crowns, hygiene, restoration, exams, etc. I don't see why anyone would fight over those procedures, as people will have more than enough experience at Roseman completing these.

If there is one big negative to the clinic that we haven't talked about, it would be the about of hygiene procedures you do at Roseman. Because we do not have a dental hygiene program attached to Roseman, we see a lot of hygiene cases, probably the most common procedures at Roseman are POE + Prophy or SRPs, basically anything cleaning. Basically you will get really good at cleanings at Roseman lol
 
I don't believe this is a common issue at Roseman.

Could I see this happening for RPD or cases that are more difficult to come across. Absolutely, that could be a case where some people fight over completing those requirements. However, I haven't seen this happen myself (yet). But for common procedures like crowns, hygiene, restoration, exams, etc. I don't see why anyone would fight over those procedures, as people will have more than enough experience at Roseman completing these.

If there is one big negative to the clinic that we haven't talked about, it would be the about of hygiene procedures you do at Roseman. Because we do not have a dental hygiene program attached to Roseman, we see a lot of hygiene cases, probably the most common procedures at Roseman are POE + Prophy or SRPs, basically anything cleaning. Basically you will get really good at cleanings at Roseman lol
It definitely is a common issue at Roseman, from what I've heard. Maybe it's not a common issue for your team, but for other teams it's a huge issue. For common procedures like crowns, hygiene, restoration, exams, etc. it's a huge issue.
 
Yes, they are; Indian Asians are the most common type of Asian at Roseman (around +15% of our class have family from different parts of India). Then the other +15% is a good mix of people that have family from Thailand, China, Korea, etc.

I would probably say around 55% are White and 30% are Asian in my class.
what are the other 15%?
 
That makes sense. How do you know their family is from these places? Did you ask each of them?
From talking to my classmates and getting to know them. Some of my friends have gone on trips to visit their families in different countries as well. Or their families will come to Utah to visit them in the States. Many of our instructors are from around the world as well and go on trips to visit their families or friends. Roseman is a very communal school, as we do everything on teams and together. Everyone is highly collaborative and wants to help one another out. I have family that are out of the country as well, and one of the faculty members was extremely nice and offered to take my family out to dinner when they come and visit. I truly believe the faculty and students want the best for one another at Roseman. At least, that's been my experience.
 
I am going to have to disagree with these statements. Yes, you are assigned to teams at Roseman, as well as the patients, however, you are also assigned to a chair on your team. The procedure that they put in the chair that you are assigned to depends on how many procedures you have for each type of procedure as well as if you have completed your FPEs or Competencies for procedures compared to your classmates and team members. For example, Say you have already completed all your FPEs and competency for posterior tooth restorations. However, I still need to challenge for a competency for a posterior tooth resto. The scheduler will put the patient that needs a #31 MO restoration in my chair because I still need that requirement instead of in your chair.

On my team I have never had any issues with getting any requirements done and have ever fought with a team member to get a patient case. Typically in clinic because we have two providers working together, we both take 1 patient in the morning and same thing as the afternoon. We will talk with each other and see who wants to do what procedures, sometimes I will do both other times the D4 will do both. But typically we both act as the primary doctor for 1 patient during the morning session. If you need a certain FPE or competency done, all you do is let the attending doctor know that you would like to get an FPE or competency, and you will do the procedure. I have never had any issues with anyone on my team about seeing patients or getting requirements done. I don't know of a single event where someone was fighting over getting a patient case with another person on my team. It is unheard of, at least on my team.
Maybe it just happened to be like that for your team. From what I've heard most people have the issue of fighting for patients and not getting enough experience in clinic, espeically with the sudden increase in class size. And they're increasing it even more for the next year. Perhaps you just got lucky and didn't get bad people on your team. Most other people's experiences are vastly different from yours, and it can be very common to get not-so-nice people on your team. FIghting for patients is a huge issue across most teams, and you can't just dismiss others' experience just because you happened to not face it.
 
Are there issues of discrimination against people with families from outside of the country?
Absolutely not, I haven't seen/heard any issues with discrimination at Roseman. Though I'm guessing most schools would try to keep that quiet if there were issues. Roseman is one of the most family-friendly schools, as many of my classmates are married and have children (+25%).

I do know a few people in my class who are looking to leave the US after graduating to go to where their families are living and practice dentistry in countries outside of the USA. I'm unsure how any of that works for the licensing and everything.
 
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