Ross Interview

[echo87]

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PCOM gave you an interview?

 

[gmbz]

You got a 510 on your mcat hence you have II's and acceptances.

I think you definitely would. Now of course my experience may be different than yours, but I have a similar gpa and I've received 2 MD II's. But I think a higher MCAT score will definitely help your situation.

 

[allanMED15]

You got a 510 on your mcat hence you have II's and acceptances.

I was just making the point that a higher MCAT score would help OP.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Fromt he list hat @user3 was so kind to generate, NYITCOM is in the top 10.

NYIT: 3.6/28

Don't know what the problems were. I surmise that it might have been a new curriculum teething issue, or Admissions just had a bad year(s) and picked the wrong people.

Getting rid of 2x failers is something you see more in MD schools.

Yeah those are NYCOMs stats

I honestly don't know very many MD schools that will kick out a 2X failer at all and the very low attrition rates at MD schools attest to that. Do you have specific examples of MD schools that do this( you don't have to list the specific school if you do)?

My read on NYCOM has always been they simply have very high standards and aren't affraid to throw people out im ways other schools might be afraid to. Agree?

 

[adrian710]

I got a 496 MCAT and I have a 3.4 cGPA. I only applied to DO schools, besides Ross, and I would rather be a DO honestly than an MD. I got secondaries to like 15 schools, returned them all, and I have been rejected by about 6 schools so far (including PCOM after having my interview with them). I was starting to lose hope, so I applied to Ross and SGU and Ross immediately offered me an interview.

You got an interview to PCOM with a 496 MCAT?

 

[FBurnaby]

I took the mcat three times in one year; 22, 22, 28. Will be matriculating DO next summer. There are no short cuts. Resist the Caribbean sales pitch and improve your mcat.

 

[Jinxapotato]

I got a 496 MCAT and I have a 3.4 cGPA. I only applied to DO schools, besides Ross, and I would rather be a DO honestly than an MD. I got secondaries to like 15 schools, returned them all, and I have been rejected by about 6 schools so far (including PCOM after having my interview with them). I was starting to lose hope, so I applied to Ross and SGU and Ross immediately offered me an interview.

keep the hope up buddy, I had ONE interview last year (out of like 12 schools), in late Feb, and I got in. I wouldn't pull the Carrib card until at least trying the US schools for 1+ cycle.

 

[Goro]

My recollection (admittedly close to 20 years old ) was that at IU, if you failed 1 class in MS1, you remediated and had to take MS2 at the big school in Indy (and not at the other 8 satellite campuses). If you failed 2x, you were gone.

High standards or no, any school that has an attrition rate > 10% gets on COCA's radar in a bad way.

People should keep in mind that failing to finish in 4 years is not the same as attrition. Medical LOAs and combined degree programs will delay graduation. there was a panic thread in the Allo forum recently about Stanford having a <90% four year graduation rate, and the poster clearly was ignorant of the fact than many of the students do combined degrees there.

Yeah those are NYCOMs stats

I honestly don't know very many MD schools that will kick out a 2X failer at all and the very low attrition rates at MD schools attest to that. Do you have specific examples of MD schools that do this( you don't have to list the specific school if you do)?

My read on NYCOM has always been they simply have very high standards and aren't affraid to throw people out im ways other schools might be afraid to. Agree?

 

[costales]

My recollection (admittedly close to 20 years old ) was that at IU, if you failed 1 class in MS1, you remediated and had to take MS2 at the big school in Indy (and not at the other 8 satellite campuses). If you failed 2x, you were gone.

http://registrar.duke.edu/sites/def...l Bulletin/DocofMed ProgramFORHTML.05.05.html

Academic Dismissal Policy of the Duke University School of Medicine
Any of the following circumstances will result in dismissal:
• Failure of any combination of three classroom-based/clinical setting-based /clerkships/electives (includes clerkships, electives, and selectives) courses
• Failure of two (clinical setting-based courses) clinical courses
• Failure of the same course twice ​

 

[Goro]

I suspect that my memory was faulty. As I have stated many times, med schools will do everything in their power to get you to graduation. It's harder to fail out than to get in!

Of course, the Carib model is to get you to fail out!!

http://registrar.duke.edu/sites/default/files/medical/2013-14/index.html#page/2013-14 Medical Bulletin/DocofMed ProgramFORHTML.05.05.html

Academic Dismissal Policy of the Duke University School of Medicine
Any of the following circumstances will result in dismissal:
• Failure of any combination of three classroom-based/clinical setting-based /clerkships/electives (includes clerkships, electives, and selectives) courses
• Failure of two (clinical setting-based courses) clinical courses
• Failure of the same course twice ​

 

[yanks26dmb]

Why's that?

Because 50% of people that go to those schools never become physicians.

 

[deleted731525]

I've taken both exams. The DAT is a fact based memorization based test, the perceptual section is largely a bag of tricks that can be learned. The MCAT is all critical thinking and analysis. There is no comparison. The limiting factor for DAT scores is often time and preparation; there often is a limit too much people want to spend learning every bio fact possible, doing hundreds of perceptual based practice problems etc. The material itself is very manageable and honestly the test questions and style are at the same level of the SAT and SAT subject tests. For the MCAT the limiting factor for scores is the very nature of the test itself. Everybody has a certain score limit they are capable of hitting, limit to how they are able to analyze and comprehend information. Past a clear point, studying serves little purpose; there is a clear ceiling. Many simply arent capable of hitting 30+.

Podiatry is a field with high attrition and where the job market can be somewhat unstable. I'd research it heavily and not just look into because of the low MCAT scores of the students in it.

I disagree about the MCAT(havent taken the DAT so I cant comment there) but I think it is a test where most people who survive the pre-reqs can score 30/509+ on if they put in the effort. The one exception to that may be verbal reasoning if English isnt your first language. You are right to say that critical thinking and application is required to do well but not so much so that it bars most test takers from a decent score. The hardest part(at least for the new version which is what I took) is still knowing all the testable topics well.

 

[deleted731525]

Unfortunately, there are people in podiatry who should not be admitted there in the first place. This is why you have these massive fail outs, because they admit people with a pulse. It is not totally their fault, it is because their pool of applicants have such low stats to begin with. Unless you have a MCAT of 22+, you should not be attending pod school (don't care if their boards are actually easier than the USMLE or COMLEX, I would still say the same).

Now their residency placement rate seems to hover around 90%, which is still better than all caribbean schools. Yes, jobs are not abundant, but if you are not picky about where you live you will find one (as mentioned by those on the pod forum).

I dont know bro, thats sounds an awful lot like the big 4 caribbean. They have first time match rates of around 80-90%(the 50% quoted by people on this forum include all caribbean schools and students who fail to match the first time. Obviously attrition is also an issue with caribbean schols. But you could say the same thing about residency placements from SGU. If you survive attrition(which is likely high in part due to the low quality of applicants) and are willing to do FM in the middle of nowhere you will probably get a spot. In fact if what people are saying about pod school in this thread is true, I am surprised it is thrown around as such a good alternative because it sounds almost the same as a school like SGU.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I dont know bro, thats sounds an awful lot like the big 4 caribbean. They have first time match rates of around 80-90%(the 50% quoted by people on this forum include all caribbean schools and students who fail to match the first time. Obviously attrition is also an issue with caribbean schols. But you could say the same thing about residency placements from SGU. If you survive attrition(which is likely high in part due to the low quality of applicants) and are willing to do FM in the middle of nowhere you will probably get a spot. In fact if what people are saying about pod school in this thread is true, I am surprised it is thrown around as such a good alternative because it sounds almost the same as a school like SGU.

Suffice to say, that I actually agree with you. In terms of graduating and matching, pod school is like attending SGU (you are spot on with this assessment). However, I say this with the squeeze of the matching. The low-tier and mid-tier caribbean schools will be shut out first. Then with the coming years SGU, the last matching strong hold of the caribbean, will suffer.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Suffice to say, that I actually agree with you. In terms of graduating and matching, pod school is like attending SGU (you are spot on with this assessment). However, I say this with the squeeze of the matching. The low-tier and mid-tier caribbean schools will be shut out first. Then with the coming years SGU, the last matching strong hold of the caribbean, will suffer.

I'm not sure where you guys are getting your statistics.. Podiatry is no where near the Carib. Their attrition is slightly higher due to some applicants who just flat out can't handle the courses, and the high end students who decide they would rather reapply and go DO or some other career (have met a number of people like this). And the residency placement looks like this:

http://www.aacpm.org/pdf/PlacementUpdate.pdf

For 2015 graduates there is a 97% placement rate... Not far off of med schools

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm not sure where you guys are getting your statistics.. Podiatry is no where near the Carib. Their attrition is slightly higher due to some applicants who just flat out can't handle the courses, and the high end students who decide they would rather reapply and go DO or some other career (have met a number of people like this). And the residency placement looks like this:

http://www.aacpm.org/pdf/PlacementUpdate.pdf

For 2015 graduates there is a 97% placement rate... Not far off of med schools

In total agreement with the bolded. They should not be admitting such applicants, this is no different to what caribbean school do.

You are correct, I am mistaken about about the placement rate of recent graduates. I was thinking about ALL those who apply to residency (which is 90%) and not recent grads.

 

[IslandStyle808]

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[IslandStyle808]

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Well, in all reality they aren't anything like the Carib, and by that I mean you have to consider the applicant pool. There are about 600 pod spots and about 1000 applicants and the majority are probably around 3.0/20 applicants. Medical schools would have low stat students too if they had those applicant numbers. Pod schools just take what they are given. And the tuition is lower to compensate for that and a lower ceiling with regards to pay.

So I totally get what you are saying but sometimes a pod school has to accept a 2.7/18 applicant because that is what they is left of the applicants to fill their class with. They aren't taking advantage of people like the Carib does.

In total agreement with the bolded. They should not be admitting such applicants, this is no different to what caribbean school do.

You are correct, I am mistaken about about the placement rate of recent graduates. I was thinking about ALL those who apply to residency (which is 90%) and not recent grads.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I disagree about the MCAT(havent taken the DAT so I cant comment there) but I think it is a test where most people who survive the pre-reqs can score 30/509+ on if they put in the effort. The one exception to that may be verbal reasoning if English isnt your first language. You are right to say that critical thinking and application is required to do well but not so much so that it bars most test takers from a decent score. The hardest part(at least for the new version which is what I took) is still knowing all the testable topics well.

I almost want to say this is literally impossible, because the bell-curve they adjust for won't allow it. They score based on the thousands of other students who took that same test and then they adjust for difficulty and place you in a percentile which ranks you among your other peers. The percentile is what gives you your score, if I'm not mistaken, therefore the 50% is a 500 or a 25 on the old scale. I MIGHT be mistaken and I am open to criticism on this, but I am fairly certain this is how it goes.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Well, in all reality they aren't anything like the Carib, and by that I mean you have to consider the applicant pool. There are about 600 pod spots and about 1000 applicants and the majority are probably around 3.0/20 applicants. Medical schools would have low stat students too if they had those applicant numbers. Pod schools just take what they are given. And the tuition is lower to compensate for that and a lower ceiling with regards to pay.

So I totally get what you are saying but sometimes a pod school has to accept a 2.7/18 applicant because that is what they is left of the applicants to fill their class with. They aren't taking advantage of people like the Carib does.

I agree with you again on this point also. Medical schools would do the same if they had such a stat pool.

It would be better if they accepted less. If all students completed pod school and graduated, the matching would be worse. I believe these schools would still survive even if they cut their class sizes down by 10%.

 

[deleted731525]

I almost want to say this is literally impossible, because the bell-curve they adjust for won't allow it. They score based on the thousands of other students who took that same test and then they adjust for difficulty and place you in a percentile which ranks you among your other peers. The percentile is what gives you your score, if I'm not mistaken, therefore the 50% is a 500 or a 25 on the old scale. I MIGHT be mistaken and I am open to criticism on this, but I am fairly certain this is how it goes.

Well yes and no. Lets be honest many people dont prepare for the MCAT as well as they should. I myself slacked pretty hard on it(Maybe 2.5 weeks of unfocused study). So in a perfect world where everyone studies 3 months with perfect focus, yes there would be people who simply have to score lower. However we dont live in a perfect world and many people shoot themselves in the foot before they even step into the test center.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Well yes and no. Lets be honest many people dont prepare for the MCAT as well as they should. I myself slacked pretty hard on it(Maybe 2.5 weeks of unfocused study). So in a perfect world where everyone studies 3 months with perfect focus, yes there would be people who simply have to score lower. However we dont live in a perfect world and many people shoot themselves in the foot before they even step into the test center.

I'm not sure what you are saying in this response, I was just explaining how the scoring works and why it's impossible for the majority of test takers to score ~30. That is all.

 

[deleted731525]

I'm not sure what you are saying in this response, I was just explaining how the scoring works and why it's impossible for the majority of test takers to score ~30. That is all.

Well I guess the confusion is that you are taking the perspective of the entire test taking population, while in my original post I was taking the perspective of one hypothetical individual test taker. It is imo possible for most test takers(when I say this I am referring to any one random test taker out of the population, not the whole population at once) to do well, because most of the others testers wont put in the effort needed to do well.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Well I guess the confusion is that you are taking the perspective of the entire test taking population, while in my original post I was taking the perspective of one hypothetical individual test taker. It is imo possible for most test takers(when I say this I am referring to any one random test taker out of the population, not the whole population at once) to do well, because most of the others testers wont put in the effort needed to do well.

But what I was saying is it is literally impossible for most test takers to get a 30 on a single test. My argument has no real meaning other than sort of a fun fact or something, but I thought it was an interesting thought to place out there.

 

[deleted731525]

But what I was saying is it is literally impossible for most test takers to get a 30 on a single test. My argument has no real meaning other than sort of a fun fact or something, but I thought it was an interesting thought to place out there.

Well although that is different from what I was arguing, I am not sure that is true either. I believe the MCAT is actually scaled, and that scale scores the tester not in comparison to the people taking the test with him/her but in comparison to everyone who has ever taken the test. And this makes sense as otherwise a particularly strong or weak set of students on any one test date could influence scores. So in theory it might be possible(extremely unlikely) for everyone on one test date to get 30+.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Well although that is different from what I was arguing, I am not sure that is true either. I believe the MCAT is actually scaled, and that scale scores the tester not in comparison to the people taking the test with him/her but in comparison to everyone who has ever taken the test. And this makes sense as otherwise a particularly strong or weak set of students on any one test date could influence scores. So in theory it might be possible(extremely unlikely) for everyone on one test date to get 30+.

No this is not correct and, quite frankly, impossible. Each writing of the MCAT is a different test and it is scaled only against other takers of the that same test. You can't scale a test given on say Jan 1st with a test on May 1st because they are completely different tests with different questions and passages. So no it is not possible for all test takers on a certain date to all score 30+. And no getting a 30+ is not easy. If you think that then you most likely don't have any experience with the exam or you don't know any of the people that study their butt off only to score a 29 or lower (there are many in this category)

 

[deleted731525]

No this is not correct and, quite frankly, impossible. Each writing of the MCAT is a different test and it is scaled only against other takers of the that same test. You can't scale a test given on say Jan 1st with a test on May 1st because they are completely different tests with different questions and passages. So no it is not possible for all test takers on a certain date to all score 30+. And no getting a 30+ is not easy. If you think that then you most likely don't have any experience with the exam or you don't know any of the people that study their butt off only to score a 29 or lower (there are many in this category)

Do you have a source for how the MCAT is scaled? I am almost positive it is not scaled the way you say it is. And I never said getting a 30+ was easy. And I have taken the MCAT(I received a 510 which translates to a 31 by percentile).

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Do you have a source for how the MCAT is scaled? I am almost positive it is not scaled the way you say it is. And I never said getting a 30+ was easy. And I have taken the MCAT(I received a 510 which translates to a 31 by percentile).

Hey bud, I mean this with all the respect in the world, but you are incorrect. The test is based on those individuals who took that very exam. The tests have to be adjusted for the difficulty of content and the scores are scaled based on the your raw score in comparison to others. Your raw score is not the score you see - your raw score translates into a percentile ranked against other individuals of that same test and that percentile is correlated to a number. For example the 50th percentile is a 500 overall score. This is for sure how it works.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you have a source for how the MCAT is scaled? I am almost positive it is not scaled the way you say it is. And I never said getting a 30+ was easy. And I have taken the MCAT(I received a 510 which translates to a 31 by percentile).

I will not provide sources because a simple peruse through the MCAT section on the AAMC website (maybe a little extra Google search to drive the point home) will show on you what you need to know. If you can provide ME with sources of your ideas then I will provide mine. What you are suggesting is impossible and completely incorrect.

Your misunderstanding of the grading in no way diminishes your solid score. Congratulations, I hope to be in your boat after May 6th! 👍

 

[Brorthopedic]

I didn't bother reading the replies, but in case it hasn't been said... Don't attend the interview with Ross. Your GPA is good enough if you want to become a DO. Take this year to study hard for the MCAT, crush it, and then apply again.

Best of luck.

 

[Turkishking]

read million dollar mistake

 

[dred27]

Well, in all reality they aren't anything like the Carib, and by that I mean you have to consider the applicant pool. There are about 600 pod spots and about 1000 applicants and the majority are probably around 3.0/20 applicants. Medical schools would have low stat students too if they had those applicant numbers. Pod schools just take what they are given. And the tuition is lower to compensate for that and a lower ceiling with regards to pay.

So I totally get what you are saying but sometimes a pod school has to accept a 2.7/18 applicant because that is what they is left of the applicants to fill their class with. They aren't taking advantage of people like the Carib does.

The Pod field is changing for the better . They capped the enrollment and in terms of surgery their scope is increasing. The best Pod school Midwestern in AZ take all their classes with the DO students. Average stats is GPA:3.59(non- replacement unlike DO)/25. Its a pretty good back up instead of Caribbean.

 

[Oh_Gee]

Fromt he list hat @user3 was so kind to generate, NYITCOM is in the top 10.

NYIT: 3.6/28

Don't know what the problems were. I surmise that it might have been a new curriculum teething issue, or Admissions just had a bad year(s) and picked the wrong people.

Getting rid of 2x failers is something you see more in MD schools.

Why do they not list what the schools are instead of using numbers?

 

[j4pac]

Never go full Caribbean.

 

[metoo]

I took the mcat three times in one year; 22, 22, 28. Will be matriculating DO next summer. There are no short cuts. Resist the Caribbean sales pitch and improve your mcat.

I have taken the MCAT twice (19 the first time and 22 the second). Do you mind sharing how you boosted your score so high?

 

[mathnerd88]

Do you have a source for how the MCAT is scaled? I am almost positive it is not scaled the way you say it is. And I never said getting a 30+ was easy. And I have taken the MCAT(I received a 510 which translates to a 31 by percentile).

I will not provide sources because a simple peruse through the MCAT section on the AAMC website (maybe a little extra Google search to drive the point home) will show on you what you need to know. If you can provide ME with sources of your ideas then I will provide mine. What you are suggesting is impossible and completely incorrect.

Your misunderstanding of the grading in no way diminishes your solid score. Congratulations, I hope to be in your boat after May 6th! 👍

I'm actually curious about this. I know that there are some questions on the MCAT that are not counted and may be reused for a later test date. I believe those trial sections allowed AAMC to already form what they call a normalized scale score for future test takers. I remember, the trial section for the MCAT was there for at least 3 years before implementing on the new MCAT. Everyone had a different trial section when they took the exam, even on the same date.

While it is a good representation of what your percentile actually is, I'm not sure if AAMC really used all the data from the test takers on the actual testing date to figure out their scores. I know of some standardized exams already give an "estimated scale score" once you hit that submit button, even before others have finished that same exam.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, what if there's a large proportion of more highly intelligent people taking a test on a specific date more than another? What if, for example, 80% of highly intelligent people take it in the months of Jan-April, and then only 20% of them take the exam during the rest of the year. How does AAMC work with that discrepancy? The method of what @OrdinaryDO and @AnatomyGrey12 is suggesting may not be the whole picture. It also assumes that there is an equal distribution of people taking these exams on all dates, which I doubt really happens. Then, it means if someone could figure out the date where the most test takers who struggle with standardized exams and can take advantage that way.

My only guess would be what I've written in my first paragraph. I'm pretty sure they have already come up with a rough estimate of how your raw scores convert to scaled scores before you've already taken the exam, based on previous test takers and randomized trial questions which don't count towards the exam. Then they make some fine tune adjustments after they get data from the actual test takers from that specific date, hence the 30 day waiting period. I'm sure AAMC reuses some MCAT questions, and they are completely randomized out of tens of thousands of questions in their bank, but have tested others on those questions before, so they've already got a good baseline of how to do this estimate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is much more than just looking at the group of people who took the MCAT that specific day.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm sure there is more nuance to it then straight up only the people on your test date but I was mostly responding to the other poster's idea of your score being scaled against everyone who every took the test, which is not correct.

 

[mathnerd88]

I'm sure there is more nuance to it then straight up only the people on your test date but I was mostly responding to the other poster's idea of your score being scaled against everyone who every took the test, which is not correct.

True, which is why most schools only accept scores within three years of your testing date while a few others accept scores within five years.

The big change of the new MCAT has something to do with that too. The difficulty level has increased and there really is no way to compare objectively someone who took the MCAT fifteen years ago vs. someone who took it last year. The amount of people taking the MCAT has dramatically increased, and the distribution of people have changed, even if slightly. I would like to believe humans have become more intelligent as time passes.