Roughly 1 out of 4 of you will not graduate

[deleted1162946]

This is an objective failure by podiatry. What do these students do with the massive debt they’ve incurred and no degree? Should the schools be held accountable for accepting unqualified candidates who had no chance at passing boards?

Worst offenders: NYCPM, Kent, Scholl.

It’s hard enough to pay off the debt if you eventually get through all of school, residency, and then land a good job. I just feel bad for these kids.

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[DestinyMakers]

This is 4 year graduation rate. It doesn't mean all of the rest are dismissed. There are many students who graduate in 5 years.

But yes, they accept many unqualified candidates.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Another 69er? No wayyyyy

 

[heybrother]

Annual NYCPM White Coat 2/3rds Graduation Ceremony

 

[Feli]

Yeah, and don't even get to the other side of the coin:

Many who graduate won't get a good residency (since many podiatry residencies are slightly to very weak).​

We may have an overall podiatry residency shortage looming (again) as new pod schools will aim to grow their class sizes.​

With any residency, the job market is... yeah, the podiatry job market.​

Podiatry school always has been like Caribbean MD school: accepts nearly anyone, flunks out a high number of them, "extended program" to allow remediation of cla$$es, residency match is pretty tough to do well, tuition rises nonstop. The question is if US govt will ever cut off or neuter borrowing for podiatry tuitions (as they did for many Caribb schools) due to significant number of defaults and poor ROI.

I said it before and again now : Kent SPM will be the first pod school to close (not a great pod school, multiple other pod schools nearby, more options for pod schools now, more potential applicants getting wise to the ROI and the rigmarole that is podiatry school marketing). We shall see.

 

[NeisseriaGon]

Yeah, and don't even get to the other side of the coin:

Many who graduate won't get a good residency (since many podiatry residencies are slightly to very weak).​

We may have an overall podiatry residency shortage looming (again) as new pod schools will aim to grow their class sizes.​

With any residency, the job market is... yeah, the podiatry job market.​

Podiatry school always has been like Caribbean MD school: accepts nearly anyone, flunks out a high number of them, "extended program" to allow remediation of cla$$es, residency match is pretty tough to do well, tuition rises nonstop. The question is if US govt will ever cut off or neuter borrowing for podiatry tuitions (as they did for many Caribb schools) due to significant number of defaults and poor ROI.

I said it before and again now : Kent SPM will be the first pod school to close (not a great pod school, multiple other pod schools nearby, more options for pod schools now, more potential applicants getting wise to the ROI and the rigmarole that is podiatry school marketing). We shall see.

As someone who went to a Carib MD and is now a 3rd year pod student, the are not the same. In the Carib my first semester we lost 50% of our class. That doesn’t happen in pod. There’s a million other differences between the two.

While they both accept “lower quality” candidates, I don’t understand how someone genuinely can’t graduate pod school

 

[Forcewielder]

This is an objective failure by podiatry. What do these students do with the massive debt they’ve incurred and no degree? Should the schools be held accountable for accepting unqualified candidates who had no chance at passing boards?

Worst offenders: NYCPM, Kent, Scholl.

It’s hard enough to pay off the debt if you eventually get through all of school, residency, and then land a good job. I just feel bad for these kids.

It's predatory but totally logical. Scholl's curriculum was good. The issue was they accepted anyone with a pulse by the end of the application cycle. They wanted paying butts in the seats. It's the shared fault of the government approving loans for anyone accepted and it's the shared fault of the student for believing they should be a doctor just because they were accepted into a school. Student loans need to be privatized and merit based once again. Anyone objective looking at an applicant with the stats pod school accepts would know not to make the bet...

 

[DarkKnight4]

Some numbers. After 1 year at Kent, we started out with 65 students, 5 of which are repeated students.
Now we are entering year 2 with 55 students, with all the previously repeated students passed.

 

[air bud]

As someone who went to a Carib MD and is now a 3rd year pod student, the are not the same. In the Carib my first semester we lost 50% of our class. That doesn’t happen in pod. There’s a million other differences between the two.

While they both accept “lower quality” candidates, I don’t understand how someone genuinely can’t graduate pod school

Talk about letting the ball slip through your hands...bro you went MD to DPM....smh

 

[aiikookie]

at kent we have a few classmates who also went from carrib MD to DPM. I heard it's because they didnt pass step 1.

 

[deleted1162946]

at kent we have a few classmates who also went from carrib MD to DPM. I heard it's because they didnt pass step 1.

well if they fail the apmle part 1 they can just retake it for free with no consequence

 

[Feli]

at kent we have a few classmates who also went from carrib MD to DPM. I heard it's because they didnt pass step 1.

Some people must have the cheat code to infinite student loan access? 🙁

Good luck ever paying that off on typical DPM pay. Yipez.

 

[aiikookie]

Some people must have the cheat code to infinite student loan access? 🙁

Good luck ever paying that off on typical DPM pay. Yipez.

That's what i thought as well. Instead of graduating with your usual $300K of debt from podiatry alone they probably added another $300K due to the insane cost of Carrib MD programs.

 

[heybrother]

https://archive.is/Tan4S

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

The above link (archive) will allow you to read the article without a subscription. Kind of a bizarre story on the incentives of government payment plans.

 

[Feli]

https://archive.is/Tan4S

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

The above link (archive) will allow you to read the article without a subscription. Kind of a bizarre story on the incentives of government payment plans.

Wowza. That guy must have pooped his pants when SAVE plan went bye bye.

At least he has a good and (potentially) profitable career, though.
I don't get why he is making "$225k last year" as an orthodontist... their average salaries are about double that (and he supposedly went to a high end school and residency). Dude is over ten years out of school, not a brand new training grad. All I can think is that maybe he works at a PP that underpays him... or someplace like Aspen Dental, the HealthDrive of dentist employers?
I'd also think a couple of BYU grads had better have more than 2 kids very soon if they don't want a talking-to from the ward leaders, but I could be wrong. I can understand $1.5M - and growing - in debts not making life very inspiring in the bedroom or in general. Hmm.

I just hope he gets a better job up more near the orthodontist mean. It's like 4 out of 5 dentists in orthodontics make more than $225k/yr... and he's that 5th orthodontist.

 

[heybrother]

Wowza. That guy must have pooped his pants when SAVE plan went bye bye.

At least he has a good and (potentially) profitable career, though.
I don't get why he is making "$225k last year" as an orthodontist... their average salaries are about double that (and he supposedly went to a high end school and residency). Dude is over ten years out of school, not a brand new training grad. All I can think is that maybe he works at a PP that underpays him... or someplace like Aspen Dental, the HealthDrive of dentist employers?
I'd also think a couple of BYU grads had better have more than 2 kids very soon if they don't want a talking-to from the ward leaders, but I could be wrong. I can understand $1.5M - and growing - in debts not making life very inspiring. I hope he gets a better job more near the orthodontist mean.

I believe they indicated that he works for a dental chain. I have no idea on his life story outside of the article, but I wonder if its all intentional. Additional money would just be taxed/used to for student loan payments and he appears to live in a beautiful house on a mountain in Utah. There's probably killer recreation there. Maybe he's worked something out with his chain to shield income like better benefits or retirement options.

EDIT: Look him up. Now in a small Ortho group. Apparently really into mountain climbing, surfing, skiing etc.

 

[Forcewielder]

https://archive.is/Tan4S

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

The above link (archive) will allow you to read the article without a subscription. Kind of a bizarre story on the incentives of government payment plans.

I guess I'm the grumpy old man that sees this article and has minimal sympathy. There's aspects where he's clearly a "victim" in that the rates and tuition shot up while there. I do feel your costs should be locked once you start since the credits aren't transferable so you can't just go somewhere else. That said, the guy went to the priciest school in the country in the most expensive education path there is. He drove a Mercedes while in school, lives just outside SLC (super high cost area) and didn't slow down his spending despite his debt, going on vacations and whatnot. The dude is living a much more extravagant lifestyle than me and I have a small fraction of his debt and a higher income. Now we will get to pay off his debt in the form of taxes some day. Yay...

 

[heybrother]

I guess I'm the grumpy old man that sees this article and has minimal sympathy. There's aspects where he's clearly a "victim" in that the rates and tuition shot up while there. I do feel your costs should be locked once you start since the credits are transferable so you can't just go somewhere else. That said, the guy went to the priciest school in the country in the most expensive education path there is. He drove a Mercedes while in school, lives just outside SLC (super high cost area) and didn't slow down his spending despite his debt, going on vacations and whatnot. The dude is living a much more extravagant lifestyle than me and I have a small fraction of his debt and a higher income. Now we will get to pay off his debt in the form of taxes some day. Yay...

It does feel like an exploit. And yeah, I caught the $390 Mercedes in there.

 

[NeisseriaGon]

Talk about letting the ball slip through your hands...bro you went MD to DPM....smh

For me, not so much. I’m actually happy about my choice and had I heard about podiatry before going there, I would’ve never went.

But I have to remember this is SDN. The place where everyone hates being a podiatrist for some strange reason lol

 

[air bud]

For me, not so much. I’m actually happy about my choice and had I heard about podiatry before going there, I would’ve never went.

But I have to remember this is SDN. The place where everyone hates being a podiatrist for some strange reason lol

...Because you are a student still

 

[Adam Smasher]

For me, not so much. I’m actually happy about my choice and had I heard about podiatry before going there, I would’ve never went.

But I have to remember this is SDN. The place where everyone hates being a podiatrist for some strange reason lol

As you proceed in your schooling and training, you will experience some very frustrating and idiosyncratic things about advancing your career as a podiatrist. Traveling all over for clerkships. Residencies that say they do one thing on paper but in reality the experience is watered-down. A job market that requires you to hopscotch around the country to find reasonable employment.

None of us hate our jobs, we just have a little buyer's remorse. Let us know in 5 years if you find the juice to be worth the squeeze.

 

[heybrother]

For me, not so much. I’m actually happy about my choice and had I heard about podiatry before going there, I would’ve never went.

But I have to remember this is SDN. The place where everyone hates being a podiatrist for some strange reason lol

Podiatry isn't the worst, but the finances are going to be substantially worse for new grads. I wish you the best in the future, but I wonder what you'll write in 10 years when you feel like you have to paddle the boat harder everyday just to stay in place. You can fight to keep the magic and the novelty alive, but at some point the finances will weigh on you.

 

[Feli]

... I wish you the best in the future, but I wonder what you'll write in 10 years when you feel like you have to paddle the boat harder everyday just to stay in place. You can fight to keep the magic and the novelty alive, but at some point the finances will weigh on you.

Ugh... yeah. In 10 years, the debt drag on most DPMs and the ROI and the job market will be a lot rougher.

I would image that, by then, podiatry SDN will be almost like pharmacy SDN forums. We'll see most DPMs working supergroup jobs... and many bona fide student loan defaults and career changers. No joke. I think we'll have seen at least one pod school shut down by then (either forced to, or the parent university can't afford podiatry staff/clinics/etc with that few matriculants).

 

[deleted285117]

…, or the parent university can't afford podiatry staff/clinics/etc with that few matriculants).

I was shocked to read elsewhere on this forum KSUCPM’s class was only 65…. When I was there we started at 128. 😯

 

[Feli]

I was shocked to read elsewhere on this forum KSUCPM’s class was only 65…. When I was there we started at 128. 😯

Yup. It'll hit all the pod schools that ROI on DPM schooling is getting too terrible to ignore, but the schools close to other ones will feel it the most.

I know the basic science years obviously use faculty also used for DO/PA/etc (depending which pod school), and the podiatrists are paid low. However, they are not free for school clinics, pod courses, etc. The school clinics aren't usually profitable. I think it's a matter of which parent university pulls the plug on podiatry first. If it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense. It would probably be Lecom or Temple or Kent hardest hit with lack of student interest and/or new pod school expansion just due to geography. Scholl and Western are in such big metros that they can likely survive awhile.

Basically, the outgoing LECOM dean probably knew something we don't (yet) when he left less than a year into their having pod students/classes in progress.

 

[Mum]

For me, not so much. I’m actually happy about my choice and had I heard about podiatry before going there, I would’ve never went.

But I have to remember this is SDN. The place where everyone hates being a podiatrist for some strange reason lol

Ain't no way.. Lmaooo

 

[Feli]

Ain't no way.. Lmaooo

Concur.
And, like almost anything on SDN, there's a meme for that.

Vote @air bud in 2024. 🌭 🏈