Rudeness

[Dial71]

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Sorry, but I have to rant guys.

Why do people think that my student loan debt is an acceptable conversation topic? Really, I understand that I going to be $200,000 in the hole. I knew that going into medical school. Do you have to rub it in by asking me?

And no, I will not be working while I am in medical school. Yes, that means that I will be living off student loans. Unlike you or your child, however, I will have a chance of paying them off one day.

When did it become acceptable to ask people about their personal finances? Do you get these questions too? How do you respond to these inquiries?

 

[DrBowtie]

The debt is common knowledge.

 

[Rollo]

You're mad about people asking you how much debt you will accumulate and how you will pay it all off?

Bro, you need to take it easy...

 

[modsar]

I agree that this is a personal subject that is free to remain personal. It's all too common that strangers comment and converse about this topic.

 

[Dial71]

You're mad about people asking you how much debt you will accumulate and how you will pay it all off?

Bro, you need to take it easy...

Well, yes, I am upset about it. I was told growing up that it is not polite to discuss politics, religion or personal finances in conversation.

I don't think that it is an appropriate subject in polite conversation. Then again, I guess I should be grateful that the guilty parties put down their smart phones long enough for a face-to-face conversation, right?

 

[medstud87]

Sadly, it is now commonplace for somebody (even a stranger) to ask about your political views, finances, personal opinion, GPA, boxer vs. briefs etc. I do agree that it is a bit intruisive to inquire about any of these topics, but often it is just too awkward to state "no comment".

By the way.. boxer briefs FTW.

 

[CodeBlu]

Sadly, it is now commonplace for somebody (even a stranger) to ask about your political views, finances, personal opinion, GPA, boxer vs. briefs etc. I do agree that it is a bit intruisive to inquire about any of these topics, but often it is just too awkward to state "no comment".

By the way..microfiber boxer briefs FTW.

ftfy


Also... seems people don't understand that you cannot really work in medical school. Unless you're on ritalin and have 30 hours in your day.

Yes you are taking loans. But you can just choose to politely ignore these insolent people and play in your piles of money when you're done.

 

[carlogu]

That is very odd........I believe that as long as the parties involved are mature and realistic, no topic is off the table. Being easily shocked by small things just gets people angry for no worthwhile reason.......I do understand that there are times when your business is yours, but getting all up in arms about it benefits nobody and just pisses you off.....

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

Well yes, one is not supposed to ask about personal finances in a polite conversation. However people do, so save your nerve cells, and joke your way out of it. An intelligent person will take it a cue to leave the subject alone.

 

[Rollo]

That is very odd........I believe that as long as the parties involved are mature and realistic, no topic is off the table. Being easily shocked by small things just gets people angry for no worthwhile reason.......I do understand that there are times when your business is yours, but getting all up in arms about it benefits nobody and just pisses you off.....

Finally, somebody sane comments.

"Controversial" topics like religion, finance, politics are only labeled that because stupid, lazy, immature people can't talk about them without somebody crying or hurting in the end.

If you talk, behave, and think like a mature, respectful adult then any topic is fair game.

It seems to me then that people who are advocating keeping finance topics personal here fall in the former group.

 

[Bartelby]

"Controversial" topics like religion, finance, politics are only labeled that because stupid, lazy, immature people can't talk about them without somebody crying or hurting in the end.

👍

I don't see any reason not to talk about it. Are you embarrassed that you have debt? Do you really get that worked up at remembering that you have debt?

I take it as a teaching moment to let people know that us greedy fat cat doctors don't necessarily have it as good as people think. The more people that understand the economic realities of becoming a doctor in the 2000s the better, because then they might understand why an FP's $140,000 starting salary is not as mind blowing as many people believe it to be.

 

[eablackwell]

Growing up in the south, I know what you mean about being taught religion, politics, and personal finances are rude to ask about in conversation. However, I've always kind of ignored that (depending on my audience). I figure if people can come up to me in the mall and ask if I can have children (I'm in a wheelchair, you'd be shocked at some of the ridiculous questions random strangers ask), then all that other stuff is fair game.

I suggest if people ask and you don't feel comfortable about it you just laugh it off and say something like, "Let's talk about something less depressing. How 'bout them <insert geographically appropriate sports team here>?"

 

[Elbowstoopointy]

Sorry, but I have to rant guys.

Why do people think that my student loan debt is an acceptable conversation topic? Really, I understand that I going to be $200,000 in the hole. I knew that going into medical school. Do you have to rub it in by asking me?

And no, I will not be working while I am in medical school. Yes, that means that I will be living off student loans. Unlike you or your child, however, I will have a chance of paying them off one day.

When did it become acceptable to ask people about their personal finances? Do you get these questions too? How do you respond to these inquiries?

Who cares dude. Ignore them if you don't like it.

 

[JimmyChitwood]

Sadly, it is now commonplace for somebody (even a stranger) to ask about your political views, finances, personal opinion, GPA, boxer vs. briefs etc. I do agree that it is a bit intruisive to inquire about any of these topics, but often it is just too awkward to state "no comment".

By the way.. boxer briefs FTW.

Boxer briefs all the way...can you believe some people wear boxers AND shorts under their jeans? I couldn't do that without feeling like I had stuffed 13 shot glasses in my pants at the bar...which I've never done by the way

 

[ArcGurren]

...

 

[Helen Wheels]

So, today I was at my ophthalmologist's office. The tech who was giving me a visual field was chatting as she got the equipment ready. I happened to mention I had come from work.

Tech: So, where do you work?
Me: I work at [the local big academic medical center]. But, tomorrow is my last day of work.

(Yeah I shouldn't have gone there.)

Tech: What are you going to be doing?
Me: I'll be a full time student
Tech: What are you going for?
Me: I'm going to medical school. I'm going to be starting a new career as I enter middle age. (I am an older nontrad so I felt the need to explain.)
Tech: Yeah, that's really unusual for someone your age. Doesn't that take, like, ten years?
Me: It can. It depends on what specialty you are going into.
Tech: How are you going to live? How will you support yourself?

(I'm thinking to myself is this really any business of yours? But I am figuring she is just trying to be conversational...)

Me: Student loans. I'll have to borrow a lot of money but they tell me I'll be able to pay it back someday. (I'm smiling and just trying to keep this light).

Tech: Well, I hope so. For your sake.


BTW, I have also encountered many people, including some family members, who don't understand why I couldn't keep my full time job during med school.

 

[Serotonergic]

but why u mad tho? y so uptight?

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Well, yes, I am upset about it. I was told growing up that it is not polite to discuss politics, religion or personal finances in conversation

So if someone asked if you were Christian, you'd be pissed too? Seriously, of all the things I could be pissed about...

 

[MedStudentWanna]

So, today I was at my ophthalmologist's office. The tech who was giving me a visual field was chatting as she got the equipment ready. I happened to mention I had come from work.

Tech: So, where do you work?
Me: I work at [the local big academic medical center]. But, tomorrow is my last day of work.

(Yeah I shouldn't have gone there.)

Tech: What are you going to be doing?
Me: I'll be a full time student
Tech: What are you going for?
Me: I'm going to medical school. I'm going to be starting a new career as I enter middle age. (I am an older nontrad so I felt the need to explain.)
Tech: Yeah, that's really unusual for someone your age. Doesn't that take, like, ten years?
Me: It can. It depends on what specialty you are going into.
Tech: How are you going to live? How will you support yourself?

(I'm thinking to myself is this really any business of yours? But I am figuring she is just trying to be conversational...)

Me: Student loans. I'll have to borrow a lot of money but they tell me I'll be able to pay it back someday. (I'm smiling and just trying to keep this light).

Tech: Well, I hope so. For your sake.

And this made you mad? Man, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Dr Love]

OP, you are 200k in debt? Damn that's a lot. What's the interest rate on those loans?

 

[Rollo]

So, today I was at my ophthalmologist's office. The tech who was giving me a visual field was chatting as she got the equipment ready. I happened to mention I had come from work.

Tech: So, where do you work?
Me: I work at [the local big academic medical center]. But, tomorrow is my last day of work.

(Yeah I shouldn't have gone there.)

Tech: What are you going to be doing?
Me: I'll be a full time student
Tech: What are you going for?
Me: I'm going to medical school. I'm going to be starting a new career as I enter middle age. (I am an older nontrad so I felt the need to explain.)
Tech: Yeah, that's really unusual for someone your age. Doesn't that take, like, ten years?
Me: It can. It depends on what specialty you are going into.
Tech: How are you going to live? How will you support yourself?

(I'm thinking to myself is this really any business of yours? But I am figuring she is just trying to be conversational...)

Me: Student loans. I'll have to borrow a lot of money but they tell me I'll be able to pay it back someday. (I'm smiling and just trying to keep this light).

Tech: Well, I hope so. For your sake.


BTW, I have also encountered many people, including some family members, who don't understand why I couldn't keep my full time job during med school.

Maybe the tech was genuinely concerned for you?

Seriously, you're a bit older. I hope you aren't getting upset by little things like these.

 

[ArcGurren]

BTW, I have also encountered many people, including some family members, who don't understand why I couldn't keep my full time job during med school.

Just ignore them. To them medical school is just a continuation of college... they don't realize what a full time endeavor it is.

 

[fiznat]

Get pissed when people bring it up now, but I guarantee you'll use the same topic as a relief valve when people start calling you a "rich doctor" down the road.

 

[High Roller]

OP, you are 200k in debt? Damn that's a lot. What's the interest rate on those loans?

Ha!

 

[Isoprop]

OP: you're not getting a job in med school? i plan to work all 4 years. but i'm cool like that. 😎

 

[Helen Wheels]

And this made you mad? Man, I don't know what to tell you.

Seriously, you're a bit older. I hope you aren't getting upset by little things like these.

I never said it made me mad but it does surprise me a bit. I wonder if these people know that they are coming across as a bit negative and disapproving? And Dial71, I do agree that in some cases it is a tad intrusive for people to be asking about a person's finances/debts.

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

I wouldn't let it get under your skin. The idea of deferred gratification is alien to a lot of people. Also, it may be 10 years, but hey, it's not prison... It is fun to learn things, and develop yourself, and those opportunities seem to diminish in abundance as you get older.

The last person to say something like that to me was my former employer, when I resigned after getting accepted to medical school. I think there might have been a little resentment there... The thing is, getting into medical school is a really really good opportunity (despite the wails of regret from people on this site who think that med school robbed them of their potential as I-bankers and rock stars, etc.), and most people recognize that.

When you are in your 30's, and you go to med school, you usually are giving up some other career, or at least a solid job, and the amenities that these brings, that you are likely to miss these a bit ( I know I do).

Also, you will notice that once people are in their 30's, they are doing whatever they are going to, as like as not. Not everybody is happy about that. You, on the other hand, get to have a wide open and exciting future. Yes, you are giving up that comfortable sense of having an income to debt ratio greater than one, and the steady acquisition of assets, and that will cause some pain, but really, when you weigh all these things, it shouldn't rankle.

 

[Dial71]

Well, I see from the replies that there are two schools of thought on the matter:

1. It is reasonable to ask about personal topics in casual conversation, and only prudes are upset about it.

2. Personal topics make for lousy conversation.

I guess that I fall in camp two. I think that issues of personal finance could be a conversation topic, but only if the subject of interest initiates the topic. Just like asking for an invitation to a party, asking someone about their finances is rude.

Of course, finance in general makes for a dull conversation.

The truly agravating question, however, is about working in medical school. Some folks manage because they already have a PRN position arranged, but for the majority of medical students, it is unfeasible.

Explaining that to strangers is awkward and you always come off as a touch defensive. If you want to have a polite conversation, why would you want to make the other party feel awkward?

 

[Rollo]

Well, I see from the replies that there are two schools of thought on the matter:

1. It is reasonable to ask about personal topics in casual conversation, and only prudes are upset about it.

2. Personal topics make for lousy conversation.

I guess that I fall in camp two. I think that issues of personal finance could be a conversation topic, but only if the subject of interest initiates the topic. Just like asking for an invitation to a party, asking someone about their finances is rude.

Of course, finance in general makes for a dull conversation.

The truly agravating question, however, is about working in medical school. Some folks manage because they already have a PRN position arranged, but for the majority of medical students, it is unfeasible.

Explaining that to strangers is awkward and you always come off as a touch defensive. If you want to have a polite conversation, why would you want to make the other party feel awkward?

Explain to them being in medical school IS a full time job. Unfortunately, you aren't getting paid for it now but it's a long-term investment regardless.

And stop worrying too much about how you come off to strangers.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well, I see from the replies that there are two schools of thought on the matter:

1. It is reasonable to ask about personal topics in casual conversation, and only prudes are upset about it.

2. Personal topics make for lousy conversation.

I guess that I fall in camp two. I think that issues of personal finance could be a conversation topic, but only if the subject of interest initiates the topic. Just like asking for an invitation to a party, asking someone about their finances is rude.

Of course, finance in general makes for a dull conversation.

The truly agravating question, however, is about working in medical school. Some folks manage because they already have a PRN position arranged, but for the majority of medical students, it is unfeasible.

Explaining that to strangers is awkward and you always come off as a touch defensive. If you want to have a polite conversation, why would you want to make the other party feel awkward?

If you fall into camp 2, why don't you just say that you prefer not to discuss personal finances and leave it at that? I'd say that's plenty civil.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

I was told growing up that it is not polite to discuss politics, religion or personal finances in conversation.

huh? so do you just talk about the weather or smth?

Then again, I guess I should be grateful that the guilty parties put down their smart phones long enough for a face-to-face conversation, right?

These two comments make me think that you grew up in a different time...70s/early 80s?

I'd just shrug it off...if you get worked up about people having a conversation about your loans and you find it inappropriate, then it's gonna be a long road for you in med school/residency/and beyond (i.e. conversation topics in anatomy labs, burn units, the ER, etc)

 

[Dial71]

Well, mistake number one was expecting sympathy on SDN. 🙄 I did qualify my statements by stating that I was ranting.

To answer another poster, I am not old, but I guess I am old-fashioned. And no, I do not own a smartphone, although I just bought an ipod touch, which is quite fun.

 

[Druggernaut]

I've had a number of patients ask me how much I was being paid while working as an ED Tech. That threw me off a bit, but if you don't want to go into it, you can give a vague answer and they'll probably take the hint. Some pushed the issue, but they were probably not the type of individuals you'll meet often in polite society.

But loans? I don't care if they see exactly what's being dispersed. You can find it on school websites anyway.

 

[drturkleton]

OP, you're correct that discussing money is vulgar, plain and simple. I'm surprised so many posters here don't realize that it shows very poor taste. For anyone who thinks that's silly, at least be aware of the fact that many people consider it bad manners and will form their opinion of you accordingly.

That said, plenty of people do have bad manners and ask about your savings, debt, or income anyway. Just make some kind of joke and shrug it off. When someone asks how much debt I'll have, I usually say something like "Oh boy, I don't even want to think about it!" If he persists, I just tell him that I'd rather not discuss it. Nothing to get worked up about.

 

[runawayclock]

All of this can be avoided by telling people that you are going to learn "to sell dreams" with a completely serious face, when they ask you what you will be doing. Then people are too confused/weirded out to continue the conversation and then you can talk about puppies or whatever.

 

[azzarah]

Well, yes, I am upset about it. I was told growing up that it is not polite to discuss politics, religion or personal finances in conversation.

As a physician, you should not be easily offended. Actually, those are my favorite topics to talk about. Forget about talking--argue about. 👍 Rather than be offended, you should see this as an opportunity to educate them. Whenever people ask me about my loans, I give them a 10 minute speech. Non-medical people need to realize how hard doctors work and how little they get paid relative to all the sacrifices they've made. Otherwise, we will keep seeing our reimbursements go down.

 

[azzarah]

OP, you're correct that discussing money is vulgar, plain and simple. I'm surprised so many posters here don't realize that it shows very poor taste. For anyone who thinks that's silly, at least be aware of the fact that many people consider it bad manners and will form their opinion of you accordingly.

Since when did talking about money become vulgar? It doesn't even make sense.

 

[bomgd3]

Dude, does anyone else wear modal boxer briefs? I have a bunch of them, they were expensive as f*** but they are pretty much the most amazing underwear ever.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Dude, does anyone else wear modal boxer briefs? I have a bunch of them, they were expensive as f*** but they are pretty much the most amazing underwear ever.

I used to wear boxer briefs, switched to trunks.

 

[bomgd3]

I used to wear boxer briefs, switched to trunks.

What exactly is the difference between trunks and boxer briefs?

 

[Baron Samedi]

What exactly is the difference between trunks and boxer briefs?

Not much, trunks are just cut shorter. My boxer briefs tend to go mid-thigh, while my trunks hit before the bulk of the quadriceps. Also, it differs from brand-to-brand, but the CK ones I wear have a low rise and the material is tight(and remains so throughout the day). If you have the physique and, more importantly, the confidence, trunks are the way to go.

 

[VenusinFurs]

I don't like to talk about my debt. It makes me anxious. But when someone says "HA HA YOU WILL BE MAKING BIG DOCTOR BUCKS" I do try to explain to them this will probably not be the case. They never believe me.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Boxer briefs all the way...can you believe some people wear boxers AND shorts under their jeans? I couldn't do that without feeling like I had stuffed 13 shot glasses in my pants at the bar...which I've never done by the way

Some people are never-nudes.

 

[surftheiop]

I feel like talking about medical school loans is not really even close to what most people would consider "talking about personal finances" Mostly because the loan repayment is so far off for most of us, that its not causing any hardship at the moment.

I actually enjoy it when people ask me about educational finances, I think its good the more people know/understand about how expensive graduate education is these days. Also people often ask me about working, but after I explain the medical educational proccess they understand how it wouldn't be too feasible to work.

Here is how a typical conversation with a non-medical person my age would go (almost an exact transcript from yesterday):

"I heard your starting medical school, must be a lot of studying"
"Yeah, I haven't started yet, but from what I hear its a lot of work, should be interesting though"

"Oh thats cool, how are you paying for your apartment? Do they pay you to go to school or something?"
"I wish, actually medschool is like 30 grand a year and then the government will give you loans of like 20k for living expenses."

"Dang, thats expensive, can't you work a job or something to make it cheaper?"
"In theory you could, but medical school is really fast paced and the schools highly discourage you from working. I'll probably get a research job this summer to pay the rent for a couple months though"

"Wow, well I guess its really expensive, but I guess you will be making a lot of money someday right?"
"Yeah thats the general plan, in the long run it should all even out pretty well"

"Your lucky doctors aren't unemployed, my sister went to art school and has like 80k of loans and can't find a job"
"I'm sorry to hear that, hopefully the job market gets better soon"




Not sure why this conversation would be offensive to anyone.

 

[bomgd3]

Not much, trunks are just cut shorter. My boxer briefs tend to go mid-thigh, while my trunks hit before the bulk of the quadriceps. Also, it differs from brand-to-brand, but the CK ones I wear have a low rise and the material is tight(and remains so throughout the day). If you have the physique and, more importantly, the confidence, trunks are the way to go.

Oh, *look down* I think mine are considered trunks then. I don't like the boxer briefs that go down really far, they just look sort of weird.

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=126153&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results

sooo comfortable.

And yeah, what the heck is up with dudes who wear shorts under their jeans? Never understood that one bit.

 

[Medicine4Bruhs]

Well, it appears the OP doesn't wear microfiber boxers because it's pretty clear he has sand in his vagina.

 

[Rollo]

Some people are never-nudes.

Excuse me, but those people need to be seen by somebody who specializes as a financial analyst and a therapist.

I believe they're called "analrapist"...?

 

[Funky]

im surprised nobody replied with a "you mad bro" meme

 

[VenusinFurs]

Excuse me, but those people need to be seen by somebody who specializes as a financial analyst and a therapist.

I believe they're called "analrapist"...?

Perhaps they just need a good banger in the mouth.

Oh, I'm sorry, here in the States we call it a sausage in the mouth.

 

[Rollo]

Perhaps they just need a good banger in the mouth.

Oh, I'm sorry, here in the States we call it a sausage in the mouth.

Just make sure they don't look dead after you're done with them.

You know, make sure they aren't like all covered in blue paint looking dead.