Salaries for DO vs. MD

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My family operates on less than 100k, and we don't live "very very frugal" as you stated. We have two new cars (albeit, they aren't Mercedes or anything), a decent-sized apartment for 3 people, we go on plenty of vacations (DisneyWorld, Cali, beaches in NC/SC, etc.). We even just laid down hardwood flooring, and we're remodelling the bathroom, but we haven't cut back on anything else as a result. We spend a great deal and we aren't living from check to check. Now I don't know how much money you grew up on, maybe your family had a lot of money so 100k seems really frugal to you, but 100k, you can make a decent living out of that. AND we live in a pretty expensive part of the country.

With that said, 100k is not enough compensation for doctors. I've been employed in places where people in small offices in a corporation make more money than that and only on a Bachelor's degree. After all the work doctors have to put in JUST to become doctors, they deserve more than that; I absolutely agree with you on that.

It's all dependent on where you live, as someone said earlier. I live in NYC and my family's income of well over $120,000 puts us barely in the middle class. So for me and others living in areas with such high costs-of-living, $100,000/year doesn't sound very promising.

Edit: funny running into you on this thread, JaggerPlate - don't we have a date to go on? :laugh:
 
It's all dependent on where you live, as someone said earlier. I live in NYC and my family's income of well over $120,000 puts us barely in the middle class. So for me and others living in areas with such high costs-of-living, $100,000/year doesn't sound very promising.

Edit: funny running into you on this thread, JaggerPlate - don't we have a date to go on? :laugh:

Yes ... we're supposed to go somewhere romantic and discuss who is "the most miserable in life." :laugh:
 
Don't start with that. The SDN gods will smite you down.

Hahaha for sure. JPH was awesome, but it's not like the mods banned him unfairly. I think he went through tons of warnings, infractions, probation periods, etc before they pulled the plug. Everyone knew his advice was golden ... but I guess everyone has to follow TOS.
 
Hahaha for sure. JPH was awesome, but it's not like the mods banned him unfairly. I think he went through tons of warnings, infractions, probation periods, etc before they pulled the plug. Everyone knew his advice was golden ... but I guess everyone has to follow TOS.

Why did he get banned, every post of his I've seen seems like great info and very accurate.

You could easily work 5 days a week with Summers off every year with a BS in Bio (aka teach) and make 45k. Furthermore, you could probably clear 100k working 3 days a week with a DO. Just some food for thought (not taking into account time, debt, etc).

Oo lala, a whole whopping 45k a year. :laugh:

Hospitalists who work 7 days on, 7 days off can clear 200-250k starting I believe, in a rural area.
 
Why did he get banned, every post of his I've seen seems like great info and very accurate.

I think just arguing, being sarcastic, pwning pre-meds who would then complain, etc. He was a valuable asset to the site, and will continue to be a value to DOs in general.



Oo lala, a whole whopping 45k a year. :laugh:

Hospitalists who work 7 days on, 7 days off can clear 200-250k starting I believe, in a rural area.

I'm not sure you saw the initial post ... someone stated that they were jealous their dad made 45k a year working three days a week as a pilot. They then stated that they wished they didn't love Bio so much (because the pilot gig was a "sweet deal"). Having said that, I responded that a Bio major could easily teach 5 days a week (with a 3 month summer) for 45k + a year, or go to med school and probably make 100k working 3 days a week. This wasn't a comment on 45k being significant, or how much a hospitalist, for example, could make - even with their unique schedules.
 
I think just arguing, being sarcastic, pwning pre-meds who would then complain, etc. He was a valuable asset to the site, and will continue to be a value to DOs in general.


I'm not sure you saw the initial post ... someone stated that they were jealous their dad made 45k a year working three days a week as a pilot. They then stated that they wished they didn't love Bio so much (because the pilot gig was a "sweet deal"). Having said that, I responded that a Bio major could easily teach 5 days a week (with a 3 month summer) for 45k + a year, or go to med school and probably make 100k working 3 days a week. This wasn't a comment on 45k being significant, or how much a hospitalist, for example, could make - even with their unique schedules.

Oh, I see, all good then. That sucks, I've seen many of his posts on this account and my older account(forgot pw) and everything seemed like DO gold.

I just said over 45k(average) because I didn't want to sound as if I were bragging...

Your posts are darn good too Jager. 👍
 
Oh, I see, all good then. That sucks, I've seen many of his posts on this account and my older account(forgot pw) and everything seemed like DO gold.

I just said over 45k(average) because I didn't want to sound as if I were bragging...

Your posts are darn good too Jager. 👍

Thanks!
 
I'm glad you're not mad, that was not my intention at all. The $800,000 homes are not mansions, either! This is the scary thing- we are talking about 1,400 to 2,000 sq.ft. homes! You're right, it is crazy! And it's hard to leave family and friends and deep roots behind just for a lower cost of living. I guess that's why I stayed, that and because I was born and raised here and it's what I am used to. However, even if I did move, I would make less, and that would offset the lower cost of living- so it would even out anyway! Oh well.

I have to agree with DocGina on this one. I agree that cost of living in certain areas are ridiculous and that you shouldn't go into medicine for the money only, but how much you make when you live in certain places is important to know. Like someone said earlier, when you enter any job, you want to know the salary. And it's hard to just pick yourself up and move when everything and everyone you know is in a certain part of the country. I'm from Fairfield County in CT, where some average houses are $800,000 to $1 million or more, and we're not even talking about mansions either! These are regular 2 or 3 bedroom homes, and that is a nice amount of space, but I know when my uncle moved to TX, he got double the rooms and square feet for HALF that price.

My friend is leasing a one-bedroom apartment in northern CT for half my Boston rent, and I live with a roommate...
 
I have to agree with DocGina on this one. I agree that cost of living in certain areas are ridiculous and that you shouldn't go into medicine for the money only, but how much you make when you live in certain places is important to know. Like someone said earlier, when you enter any job, you want to know the salary. And it's hard to just pick yourself up and move when everything and everyone you know is in a certain part of the country. I'm from Fairfield County in CT, where some average houses are $800,000 to $1 million or more, and we're not even talking about mansions either! These are regular 2 or 3 bedroom homes, and that is a nice amount of space, but I know when my uncle moved to TX, he got double the rooms and square feet for HALF that price.

My friend is leasing a one-bedroom apartment in northern CT for half my Boston rent, and I live with a roommate...

I've seen decent looking NEW/Newish houses go for 110-130k in decent neighborhoods.

Texas > Canada(rest of N. America)
 
I have read most of the replies on this page and I just thought I'd chime in as future MD or DO applicant.

I was leaning towards D.O. but out of curiosity, I just searched Google to see if there was any salary difference between the two degrees. It wasn't out of lust for money but rather just a simple curiousity.

Like people before me have said, I say the same thing that if I am going to commit myself to something, not only do I want it to be something I am passionate about but also something that can provide me financial stability. I have always dreamed of owning a big luxurious house. It's not out of greed but because it was my dream as child. I'd be fine driving an Acura but the big expensive house is something that not every profession can provide. My mother is a teacher but she can't afford a mansion to live in! It's my only dream as far as materialistic things goes and I don't think there is anything wrong with accomplishing my dream while doing what I am passionate about.

C'mon people. Let's be realistic. We're not all saints and it's only human to acknowledge our need for materialistic things. If that's what drives a doctor to be passionate about his career, then be it (although I'd like to point out that such is not a case with me) but like they say... "To each his own.":idea:
 
I have read most of the replies on this page and I just thought I'd chime in as future MD or DO applicant.

I was leaning towards D.O. but out of curiosity, I just searched Google to see if there was any salary difference between the two degrees. It wasn't out of lust for money but rather just a simple curiousity.

Like people before me have said, I say the same thing that if I am going to commit myself to something, not only do I want it to be something I am passionate about but also something that can provide me financial stability. I have always dreamed of owning a big luxurious house. It's not out of greed but because it was my dream as child. I'd be fine driving an Acura but the big expensive house is something that not every profession can provide. My mother is a teacher but she can't afford a mansion to live in! It's my only dream as far as materialistic things goes and I don't think there is anything wrong with accomplishing my dream while doing what I am passionate about.

C'mon people. Let's be realistic. We're not all saints and it's only human to acknowledge our need for materialistic things. If that's what drives a doctor to be passionate about his career, then be it (although I'd like to point out that such is not a case with me) but like they say... "To each his own.":idea:

I tend to share your views on placing value on car vs. home. But I don't think I want a mansion. Mansions require upkeep that you and/or your spouse probably will not want to do or even be able to do. So hiring people is a lot of $$ and just kind of awkward. I would only hire "help" if I had so much money I didn't couldn't spend it in a lifetime.

I don't care much for driving an expensive car. I drive a Honda Accord right now (2008) and could drive a similar car for the rest of my life for all I care. It's comfortable and nice to drive but not luxury. As far as houses go, I would rather have a smaller home in a really nice area. I live in SoCal so this would include SPACE. I want to look out my window and see some sort of nature not just another brick building or another 2-story house. I believe this to be entirely possible on a physician's salary. Not a $2 million mansion but enough to be a decent house in a good location 🙂
 
All the residents at my program are signing for similar salaries whether they be DO or MD. No difference in pay or benefits.
 
I am pretty sure that MDs make more on average than DOs, since a higher proportion of DOs are in primary care.
 
I am pretty sure that MDs make more on average than DOs, since a higher proportion of DOs are in primary care.

Well, sure, but the point is that the reimbursement rates for MD and DO physicians are equal, i.e., you perform X procedure, you get paid Y whether you are a MD or DO. If you are in a setting where you are a true employee of the hospital, your salary would be based on overall experience and total time spent with that particular hospital. If you are in private practice, it's basically an "eat what you kill" type scenario...you work more, you get paid more. And of course, as you'd said, the more lucrative fields (ROADS) will pay more than the primary care fields. The "average doctor salary" is a misnomer because of all these variables.
 
...and what are these salaries approximately?

That depends on the specialty. And location. Folks in similar locations with same specialties are making the same amount of money. You need to search for your specific parameters.

The bottom line is what you make depends on location, specialty, workload, patient population. Your question is not answerable as stated. You are welcome to google physician salaries - most of those websites will take into consideration the parameters involved and give you a range of salaries.
 
Might DO's earn less than MD's because of the degree distinction? Since volume of patients influences salary, would a DO be at a disadvantage because most patients chose the doctor with the more recognizable degree (i.e., MD)?
 
Might DO's earn less than MD's because of the degree distinction? Since volume of patients influences salary, would a DO be at a disadvantage because most patients chose the doctor with the more recognizable degree (i.e., MD)?

I dont believe there would be any statistical significance if you looked into it. Add in that DOs can bill for OMT (a high paying, low effort modality) in appropriate situations if they so wish and any of that suggestion you made is probably balanced out.
 
Might DO's earn less than MD's because of the degree distinction? Since volume of patients influences salary, would a DO be at a disadvantage because most patients chose the doctor with the more recognizable degree (i.e., MD)?

this may come into play in something like cosmetic derm or a cash-based private practice. But even then, these sorts of practices thrive more based on advertising, word-of-mouth, reputation, name recognition etc. rather than people looking up names in a phone book and seeing MD or DO.

For hospital employees it doesn't come into play at all. For fields that are primarily insurance based practices (aka 95% of specialties), the vast majority of patients are based on referrals from other physicians who don't care if you are DO or MD
 
Taj,
you are treading in dangerous waters here with the sdn'rs and this question, that is your warning, as far as the difference, there is none. If you have heard something different, and aren't going to listen to what we tell you then why bother asking. But I do know one thing, if one day you are a doctor as I am going to be, then I hope by then you figure out that it is not about the money. If you are thinking about going into medicine you should realize that we will not make as much as physician's in the past, although we will be comfortable and have jobs that we hopefully enjoy, most of us won't be rolling in our bentley's.

Stretch,

I understand what youre saying - its ridiculous to look into medicine if youre in it for the money. However, I can understand why Taj is asking the question, as it is a concern of mine as well: if students with lower stats are more widely accepted into DO schools than MD schools, isnt there a point where the pay scales divide as well?

It may be completely unfounded, but youve gotta admit that logic would state otherwise.
 
Stretch,

I understand what youre saying - its ridiculous to look into medicine if youre in it for the money. However, I can understand why Taj is asking the question, as it is a concern of mine as well: if students with lower stats are more widely accepted into DO schools than MD schools, isnt there a point where the pay scales divide as well?

It may be completely unfounded, but youve gotta admit that logic would state otherwise.

Although the statistics for DO classes may be slightly lower than for MD matriculants, it really doesn't end up saying much about them after they've graduated and gone through residencies. They are competent physicians either way. I think the confusion comes when people do not understand that DOs may match into lower paying residencies on average when compared to the MD but as previously stated, if everything were equal (years of experience, position, etc), they make exactly the same. So once you're in medical school, whether it be allopathic or osteopathic, it's up to you what you want to do. In it for just the money? Study your arse off and try to shoot for derm (unless you really are passionate about the subject - met a physician in Indonesia who did only enough work back in the states to fund his medical missions for people in Indonesia). Otherwise you'll make the same as your MD counterpart.
 
Might DO's earn less than MD's because of the degree distinction? Since volume of patients influences salary, would a DO be at a disadvantage because most patients chose the doctor with the more recognizable degree (i.e., MD)?

this may come into play in something like cosmetic derm or a cash-based private practice. But even then, these sorts of practices thrive more based on advertising, word-of-mouth, reputation, name recognition etc. rather than people looking up names in a phone book and seeing MD or DO.

For hospital employees it doesn't come into play at all. For fields that are primarily insurance based practices (aka 95% of specialties), the vast majority of patients are based on referrals from other physicians who don't care if you are DO or MD

People don't research doctors ... even in situations like cosmetic surgery. People will spend hours self-diagnosing on WebMD and wikipedia, but they chose physicians because of referrals, people their friends claim is the best (you've got to see my guy), docs their family members see, the first person who popped up in google, the 'guy' in their town, etc, etc.

Furthermore, even in the rare case where people do the research and actually have justified reasons to see a certain doc over another, most patients select based on reputation and patient results. If you're going to talk about cosmetic surgery again, 99% of patients who do some form of research/elimination, go to the guy who is 'known' for said procedure or puts out the results they like or is known for doing only that type of surgery. The 'see the MD over the DO every time' scenario just isn't a significant factor in the real world.
 
There is absolutely no salary prejudice between MD and DO, whatsoever. Just so happens, some MDs in their specialty make more than the DOs in the same specialty, and vice versa. The distinction of MD and DO has nada to do with money making potential. In fact, AOA boarded specialists, Primary Care docs can actually command more in terms of salary because we can bill for OMT. There are DO FPs that I know that integrate OMT very regularly into their practices and make a significant amount more than their MD counterparts ever could.......just because of the OMT.

I make more than alot of MD residents in my specialty.....and that is just low paying resident pay.

I know alot of premeds get freaked out when they consider attending osteopathic schools, because they are afraid it is considered an inferior medical degree, and thus pay would parallel. Not so, just fyi to those students that have doubts.
 
There is absolutely no salary prejudice between MD and DO, whatsoever. Just so happens, some MDs in their specialty make more than the DOs in the same specialty, and vice versa. The distinction of MD and DO has nada to do with money making potential. In fact, AOA boarded specialists, Primary Care docs can actually command more in terms of salary because we can bill for OMT. There are DO FPs that I know that integrate OMT very regularly into their practices and make a significant amount more than their MD counterparts ever could.......just because of the OMT.

I make more than alot of MD residents in my specialty.....and that is just low paying resident pay.

I know alot of premeds get freaked out when they consider attending osteopathic schools, because they are afraid it is considered an inferior medical degree, and thus pay would parallel. Not so, just fyi to those students that have doubts.

Along the lines of the billing for OMT thing... When I was working with a DO FP doc a few years back, he integrated OMM into a majority of his visits, and the patients LOVED it. The guy did a sports med fellowship and was a real wiz at OMM. A few even said they would never see an MD PCP again. Then when I asked him about the billing aspects of OMM, he said that it takes him an additional 5 minutes max for most patients if he does it while taking the history and he can bill for an additional $65. That's a nice chunk of change for 5 minutes of work.

Note: I don't want it to sound like he used OMM on every patient just to make a few extra bones, but most of his patients were there for chronic pain complaints. If we had a kid come in with a sore throat he didn't HVLA the strep out of him or anything...
 
People don't research doctors ... even in situations like cosmetic surgery. People will spend hours self-diagnosing on WebMD and wikipedia, but they chose physicians because of referrals, people their friends claim is the best (you've got to see my guy), docs their family members see, the first person who popped up in google, the 'guy' in their town, etc, etc.

Furthermore, even in the rare case where people do the research and actually have justified reasons to see a certain doc over another, most patients select based on reputation and patient results. If you're going to talk about cosmetic surgery again, 99% of patients who do some form of research/elimination, go to the guy who is 'known' for said procedure or puts out the results they like or is known for doing only that type of surgery. The 'see the MD over the DO every time' scenario just isn't a significant factor in the real world.

The SN of the poster you quoted first pretty much says it all.

For every patient who wont see a DO...you have 10 more who claim that DOs are way better/holistic/talk to you/genuinely care,etc. Ive seen this over and over and over in my years in the hospital/offices.
 
Note: I don't want it to sound like he used OMM on every patient just to make a few extra bones, but most of his patients were there for chronic pain complaints. If we had a kid come in with a sore throat he didn't HVLA the strep out of him or anything...

1) :laugh:

2) I'm sure I can think of at least 2 ways to answer that if the question was "how would you HVLA the strep out of someone". Im pretty sure OMM departments invent uses for their techniques on occasion.
 
Heres your answer....

When you are a doctor you will be referred to by your job description, ie Pediatrician, Surgeon, Radiologist, etc, and not by your degree (DO or MD). Because you are performing the same task (albeit it with slight differences depending on the doctor) you get paid the same. There really isn't much more to it then that....

Actually won't you be referred to as "Dr. _______" I haven't heard anyone called "Radiologist ______"
 
I'm pretty sure Taus means Dr. XXX, a radiologist or Dr. XXX, a pediatrician. No one's going to add osteopathic radiologist vs allopathic radiologist to the title since it makes no difference in salary or prestige.

And what's with all of the dumb questions? Are you trying to win the award for dumbest post of the year?
 
Oh man, does every thread about DO have to turn to "but will patients want to see a 'DO'? Who knows who DOs are?" I mean, come on. People go to NP's, PA's, DPM's, OD's, and even PT's thinking they are all medical doctors too. Some people are really ******ed. If you're so worried about the title, just advertise yourself as "Dr. John Doe, Clinical Oncologist" instead of "John Doe, DO, Clinical Oncologist." Problem solved.

Example:

dr-gabriel-chiu-beverly-hills-plastic-surgery-inc-beverly-hills-ca.jpg


If anyone is interested in reading about him: http://www.beverlyhillsplasticsurgeryinc.com/surgeon.html
 
I'm pretty sure Taus means Dr. XXX, a radiologist or Dr. XXX, a pediatrician. No one's going to add osteopathic radiologist vs allopathic radiologist to the title since it makes no difference in salary or prestige.

And what's with all of the dumb questions? Are you trying to win the award for dumbest post of the year?

:laugh: Harsh but.. :laugh:
 
there's no difference in the salaries, but there's a hefty D.O. tax inversely proportional to both your COMLEX scores and empirical physical attractiveness.
 
I actually heard that doctors that practice in the boonies make more then docs practicing in urban areas. Its mostly because in the urban more doctors want to practice, but in the boonies they offer a much higher salary to attract doctors.

I do not care about the $
My purpose is to serve people who have a need that is not being met, and I hope I will be able to make a difference, even if it is a small one.
I can prove it is not about the money:
By the time I am done with medical school, residency and fellowship I will be 41 and have just enough time to pay back student loans before I die 🙂
Okay- obviously that part was a joke...
The point is, some of us are persuing medicine because we feel it is our calling and no amount of money or lack thereof will stop us 🙂

My dad is and MD, and I know many DO's who make more than him, even though he is the highest paid physician in the ER where he works. Even though I was accepted in several MD and DO schools this year, I'm choosing to go with a DO school after talking to many of my father's colleagues and getting their advice. Talking about the pay between the two really isn't an issue...like most other people have already said, it all depends on your specialty.

I have read most of the replies on this page and I just thought I'd chime in as future MD or DO applicant.

I was leaning towards D.O. but out of curiosity, I just searched Google to see if there was any salary difference between the two degrees. It wasn't out of lust for money but rather just a simple curiousity.

Like people before me have said, I say the same thing that if I am going to commit myself to something, not only do I want it to be something I am passionate about but also something that can provide me financial stability. I have always dreamed of owning a big luxurious house. It's not out of greed but because it was my dream as child. I'd be fine driving an Acura but the big expensive house is something that not every profession can provide. My mother is a teacher but she can't afford a mansion to live in! It's my only dream as far as materialistic things goes and I don't think there is anything wrong with accomplishing my dream while doing what I am passionate about.

C'mon people. Let's be realistic. We're not all saints and it's only human to acknowledge our need for materialistic things. If that's what drives a doctor to be passionate about his career, then be it (although I'd like to point out that such is not a case with me) but like they say... "To each his own.":idea:

Actually won't you be referred to as "Dr. _______" I haven't heard anyone called "Radiologist ______"

to all of you, congrats on raising this thread from the dead like lazarus... 🙄

while you're at the business of performing miracles, could you turn my water bottle into a margarita so i don't have to wait for tomorrow night?
 
DOs are paid in gum... MDs wish they were paid in gum
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tviPLpD8VG8[/YOUTUBE]
 
Have you checked this out yet?

Physicians and Surgeons

if you compare against others, the figure given by that site is their max reported value. it is also not terribly informative..... MGMA thread on here has what you want for salaries.

And there is no difference MD/DO. Once you are licensed you apply for/accept/negotiate jobs the same regardless of your title.
 
Oh man, does every thread about DO have to turn to "but will patients want to see a 'DO'? Who knows who DOs are?" I mean, come on. People go to NP's, PA's, DPM's, OD's, and even PT's thinking they are all medical doctors too. Some people are really ******ed. If you're so worried about the title, just advertise yourself as "Dr. John Doe, Clinical Oncologist" instead of "John Doe, DO, Clinical Oncologist." Problem solved.

Example:

dr-gabriel-chiu-beverly-hills-plastic-surgery-inc-beverly-hills-ca.jpg


If anyone is interested in reading about him: http://www.beverlyhillsplasticsurgeryinc.com/surgeon.html

The before/after pics are interesting 🙂 (adults only):

http://www.beverlyhillsplasticsurgeryinc.com/breast-one.html
 
Oh man, does every thread about DO have to turn to "but will patients want to see a 'DO'? Who knows who DOs are?" I mean, come on. People go to NP's, PA's, DPM's, OD's, and even PT's thinking they are all medical doctors too. Some people are really ******ed. If you're so worried about the title, just advertise yourself as "Dr. John Doe, Clinical Oncologist" instead of "John Doe, DO, Clinical Oncologist." Problem solved.

Example:

http://media.yellowbot.com/r/650x500/photos/2qkB-2EMjvh_o--/dr-gabriel-chiu-beverly-hills-plastic-surgery-inc-beverly-hills-ca.jpg/IMG]

If anyone is interested in reading about him: [url]http://www.beverlyhillsplasticsurgeryinc.com/surgeon.html/url][/QUOTE]
I remember I was once volunteering in a huge hospital. I had an ID on me that said VOLUNTEER. I was standing right near the doctor, and the patients thought that I was the doctor, and ignored the actual doctor. Lol

BTW, there was absolutely NO NEED to resurrect this thread. It's illegal to discriminate in pay, reimbursement rate wise, between an MD and a DO, simply because if the letters after their name.
 
I remember I was once volunteering in a huge hospital. I had an ID on me that said VOLUNTEER. I was standing right near the doctor, and the patients thought that I was the doctor, and ignored the actual doctor. Lol

BTW, there was absolutely NO NEED to resurrect this thread. It's illegal to discriminate in pay, reimbursement rate wise, between an MD and a DO, simply because if the letters after their name.

Yes, but you do understand that salaries are not all constant, right? Employers make offers and applicants accept/renegotiate. The offers are Up to the employer
 
Yes, but you do understand that salaries are not all constant, right? Employers make offers and applicants accept/renegotiate. The offers are Up to the employer
That has little to do with being a DO or MD. Secondly, Physician salary is ultimately determined by insurance reimbursement rates.
 
if you compare against others, the figure given by that site is their max reported value. it is also not terribly informative..... MGMA thread on here has what you want for salaries.

And there is no difference MD/DO. Once you are licensed you apply for/accept/negotiate jobs the same regardless of your title.

Yes, but you do understand that salaries are not all constant, right? Employers make offers and applicants accept/renegotiate. The offers are Up to the employer

That has little to do with being a DO or MD. Secondly, Physician salary is ultimately determined by insurance reimbursement rates.

😕😕😕😕😕😕


and to the underlined: this is not always true. The PRACTICE makes money based on reimbursement. but there are plenty of physicians out there with flat rate contracts. It all depends on what you sign up for.
 
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