San Diego - CVS $50/hr No Negotiations

[Sine Cura]

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Might as well include Yellowstone NP on the "West Coast" tally if Smoky Mountains are being included on the "East Coast" tally

Can add a Olympic Peninsula on one side and Florida on the other

Can include Banff NP (oh wait that's in Canada) on one and Cancun on the other

 

[deleted885753]

Pfft. That's a gigantic, huge area. In comparable land space, BosWash has West Virginia, the Poconos, Shenandoah and Acadia National Parks, the Smokey Mountains, Montreal and all of Quebec, VT and NH, Niagara Falls. Give me a break.

Not on the same level as South West although yes I really shouldn’t consider Colorado or Oregon to be part of the conversation. Arizona and Utah yes.

American South West has the most jaw dropping natural scenery anywhere in the world IMO; not just USA. So many unique national parks within such a close proximity! Opportunity to plan 3-5 day trips are nearly endless..

 

[mentos]

I thought the west coast vs east coast feud ended in '97.

 

[deleted885753]

I prefer East coast for living but if I want to spend money on travel then give me West coast any day. Though nothing comes close to NYC as my single favorite destination..

 

[Sine Cura]

Western US is aight

A photo corresponding to each state (one of Utah, Nevada, California, Arizona, not in that order though; you can guess or reverse image search)

 

[mentos]

Just remember California is the biggest exporter of vegetable and fruits! Best be careful or we are going cut off your supply!

Are you in charge of California's exports?

I always laugh when people say "we" as if they play any role. Like when people say "we won the Superbowl, we won the world series" etc.

 

[PikminOC]

Hollywood Apocalypse: The rich and famous are fleeing in droves

CAROLINE GRAHAM: The pandemic has made many in Hollywood realise they don't need to live in LA - or anywhere near it - to keep working.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[confettiflyer]

Hollywood Apocalypse: The rich and famous are fleeing in droves

CAROLINE GRAHAM: The pandemic has made many in Hollywood realise they don't need to live in LA - or anywhere near it - to keep working.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lol Daily Fail

but I’ll bite, we’ll still tax them since their income is derived from California. Goodluck with that! rofl

 

[PikminOC]

People still leaving California for Texas despite COVID-19 surge

The reasons for relocation include the lower cost of living, bigger houses for less money and more conservative politics.

www.marketplace.org

 

[confettiflyer]

People still leaving California for Texas despite COVID-19 surge

The reasons for relocation include the lower cost of living, bigger houses for less money and more conservative politics.

www.marketplace.org

From article:

“But the move has had its challenges. Debbie Snow has a 32-year-old son, Cameron, with cerebral palsy, who moved with them. He’s blind and can’t speak or walk.

“One of the first things we did on our first visit was we went to the social services department and started asking a bunch of questions,” Snow said. “And they’re like, oh yeah, we have everything he’s used to that he got in California, you can get here so just come on down. That was a big, fat lie.”


Whoops.

Turn Texas blue! lol

I’m just glad California has paid maternity and paternity leave like every civilized country should have...it’s just six weeks, but it’s a start.

 

[PikminOC]

From article:

“But the move has had its challenges. Debbie Snow has a 32-year-old son, Cameron, with cerebral palsy, who moved with them. He’s blind and can’t speak or walk.

“One of the first things we did on our first visit was we went to the social services department and started asking a bunch of questions,” Snow said. “And they’re like, oh yeah, we have everything he’s used to that he got in California, you can get here so just come on down. That was a big, fat lie.”


Whoops.

Turn Texas blue! lol

I’m just glad California has paid maternity and paternity leave like every civilized country should have...it’s just six weeks, but it’s a start.

Good thing they'll have enough money from their savings now to pay for those things...

 

[deleted885753]

What is it like living in AZ/ NV? Reckon that would be much cheaper with similar access to attractions as California.

Though you probably do have to put up with scorching heat.

 

[mentos]

What is it like living in AZ/ NV? Reckon that would be much cheaper with similar access to attractions as California.

Though you probably do have to put up with scorching heat.

From my limited experience visiting a friend in AZ, it's full of old rich retired white people who refuse to social distance or wear masks during a pandemic. It's also hot ass.

 

[Sine Cura]

Highs in California today

Redding 103F
Sacramento 109F
San Jose 95F
Fresno 111F
Bakersfield 111F
Victorville 106F
Needles (LOL) 119F
Los Angeles 90F
San Diego 79F

Sacramento is obv inland but the Delta breeze can lower temps at night so there is often a 35-40 degree delta between high and low

Desert locations have no such benefit or further down like Fresno and Bakersfield


Nevada and Arizona are landlocked states and you can't flee to the coast

 

[BenJammin]

$50/hr is pretty high. I'm looking to hire another supervising pharmacist with starting pay of $30/hr depending on the outcome of the November board meeting that might get me unlimited tech ratio. I had a few ppl balk at the dollar figure but there was no shortage of applicants whatsoever. I can see $20-30/hr being the standard by the end of the decade maybe.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

$50/hr is pretty high. I'm looking to hire another supervising pharmacist with starting pay of $30/hr depending on the outcome of the November board meeting that might get me unlimited tech ratio. I had a few ppl balk at the dollar figure but there was no shortage of applicants whatsoever. I can see $20-30/hr being the standard by the end of the decade maybe.

Yeah, no. I have techs that make $25/hr. I'll just become a tech if that happens.

 

[deleted885753]

You aren’t gonna get any quality people working at that salary. You gonna get people who would work there until they find something else..

Not my idea of running a successful business where you wanna retain people long-term.,

 

[confettiflyer]

$50/hr is pretty high. I'm looking to hire another supervising pharmacist with starting pay of $30/hr depending on the outcome of the November board meeting that might get me unlimited tech ratio. I had a few ppl balk at the dollar figure but there was no shortage of applicants whatsoever. I can see $20-30/hr being the standard by the end of the decade maybe.

Yeah you wouldn’t save *that* much considering a benefits package is the same cost regardless of hourly rate to maintain ERISA compliance.

And man, the turnover and retraining...better off spending more/get a better quality candidate.

That’s like going to Dollar General and buying garbage tools expecting them to last > a year.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Sounds like the race to the bottom is going on at full speed.

The best you can probably get is a new grad who doesn't know what lisinopril is and has never worked a day in their lives, let alone supervised others.

 

[Marzapan]

I don't get what all the fuss is about. If hospitals are already adopting a new normal of mass hiring temporary $25/hr workers (residents) and using this labor as the new normal for staffing demands, then what's the big deal with hiring $25/hr PICs despite high turnover? After all, it's not like currently employed retail pharmacists can easily transition to something else (even within retail), and it takes much less effort and personnel to onboard/train a PIC than a resident.

 

[mentos]

You aren’t gonna get any quality people working at that salary. You gonna get people who would work there until they find something else..

Not my idea of running a successful business where you wanna retain people long-term.,

Yes he will. He will get the same quality people as retail hires. There's hundreds of unemployed pharmacists for every job posting.

 

[BenJammin]

I don't get what all the fuss is about. If hospitals are already adopting a new normal of mass hiring temporary $25/hr workers (residents) and using this labor as the new normal for staffing demands, then what's the big deal with hiring $25/hr PICs despite high turnover? After all, it's not like currently employed retail pharmacists can easily transition to something else (even within retail), and it takes much less effort and personnel to onboard/train a PIC than a resident.

I'm of the same mindset. Last year you had 7,000 people fighting for 5,000 spots that pay $41,000 a year. Now we're worried about quality of the employee as if we're buying pharmacists at Dollar General over a $4/hr increase? It just seems silly

Yeah you wouldn’t save *that* much considering a benefits package is the same cost regardless of hourly rate to maintain ERISA compliance.

And man, the turnover and retraining...better off spending more/get a better quality candidate.

That’s like going to Dollar General and buying garbage tools expecting them to last > a year.

Not sure what you, do but what do your current pharmacists make and what's the turnover like?

I'm a partner in 3 locations and own a new concept pharmacy. All of the pharmacists make $48/hr or more except for one who is at $30/hr and he is at the new location. Our turnover rate is 8% and it's all technicians. We haven't had a pharmacist leave in the last 2 years.

 

[lord999]

What is it like living in AZ/ NV? Reckon that would be much cheaper with similar access to attractions as California.

Though you probably do have to put up with scorching heat.

Nope, AZ is definitely not cheaper at our salary level. And Reno is not either (can't say for Vegas) though it's honestly a nicer place to live than in most of the California that people consider nice (the SJ-Sac and LA/SD megaopolis). Now, the property rates are not astronomical at the low end, but food is a wash and you spend more money on property taxes for less as well as salaries are less.

Too many of you are worried about income taxes. You need to think about total tax burden with sales and property. CA is nowhere near the top of that list, MN is higher as well as some other states. The cheapest in the country is probably living on the Washington border in Vancouver (no state income tax and moderate property tax) and commuting to OR to buy stuff (no sales tax, no services tax).

I just like a slower pace of life, so the Midwest works for me. I also am of a sort where living in CA is especially problematic due to income (and source of income as CA has a CG tax as well as a no LLC rule on contract work for what I do). I don't think that OR, NV, or AZ are even passable substitutes for the CA experience, but I really despise the CA losers (there are those in my old neighborhood who use the u word when referring to them) who can't hack it and have to move to AZ where they act the same way that made it impossible for them to sustainably live in CA.

 

[deleted885753]

Yes he will. He will get the same quality people as retail hires. There's hundreds of unemployed pharmacists for every job posting.

Good luck retaining them at that salary.. Quality people know their worth and it’s most definitely not $30 an hour for foreseeable future,.

 

[mentos]

Good luck retaining them at that salary.. Quality people know their worth and it’s most definitely not $30 an hour for foreseeable future,.

What other choice do they have if they're unemployed with 200k student loans?

 

[deleted885753]

What other choice do they have if they're unemployed with 200k student loans?

Work for a month or two and go elsewhere.. I refuse to believe if you are a decent rph, you can’t lend a job at least somewhere in the country that would significantly pay more..

 

[Marzapan]

Good luck retaining them at that salary.. Quality people know their worth and it’s most definitely not $30 an hour for foreseeable future,.

If you work retail then your skillset doesn't build on itself and does not bring unique value to a company, so if someone came in demanding a certain salary or they'll go elsewhere I will tell them good luck with that and end the interview immediately. "Knowing your worth" is something that only applies to niche or non-traditional career paths, not retail.

 

[hye345]

If you work retail then your skillset doesn't build on itself and does not bring unique value to a company, so if someone came in demanding a certain salary or they'll go elsewhere I will tell them good luck with that and end the interview immediately. "Knowing your worth" is something that only applies to niche or non-traditional career paths, not retail.

my experience is that “worth” in retail is seen more in terms of how well you can work as a team, delegate tasks, set clear expectations, work efficiently, etc. The skill set is more about running/maintaining the pharmacy effectively than it is about actual drug knowledge.

 

[mentos]

Work for a month or two and go elsewhere.. I refuse to believe if you are a decent rph, you can’t lend a job at least somewhere in the country that would significantly pay more..

You can believe whatever you want but there's still unemployed 2019 grads who have never had a job as a pharmacist. Now the market is flooded with unemployed 2020 grads. Plenty of people have said so in this forum.

 

[deleted885753]

If you work retail then your skillset doesn't build on itself and does not bring unique value to a company, so if someone came in demanding a certain salary or they'll go elsewhere I will tell them good luck with that and end the interview immediately. "Knowing your worth" is something that only applies to niche or non-traditional career paths, not retail.

Do you honestly believe retail pharmacy requires no skill?

There is endless pressure to drive metric: immunizations, filling prescriptions with little help, growing business, driving customer satisfaction surveys, dealing with difficult customers/ employees/ upper management and problem solving and all while following policies/ laws.

Majority of pharmacists/ technicians aren’t cut out for this environment and the good ones are the asset to their employers.

Do I think salaries will go down? Most certainly. But someone who says they will find dedicated people to work for $30 an hour is out of their mind..

 

[Marzapan]

my experience is that “worth” in retail is seen more in terms of how well you can work as a team, delegate tasks, set clear expectations, work efficiently, etc. The skill set is more about running/maintaining the pharmacy effectively than it is about actual drug knowledge.

Do you honestly believe retail pharmacy requires no skill?

There is endless pressure to drive metric: immunizations, filling prescriptions with little help, growing business, driving customer satisfaction surveys, dealing with difficult customers/ employees/ upper management and problem solving and all while following policies/ laws.

Majority of pharmacists/ technicians aren’t cut out for this environment and the good ones are the asset to their employers.

Do I think salaries will go down? Most certainly. But someone who says they will find dedicated people to work for $30 an hour is out of their mind..

There are certainly "skills" involved with retail pharmacy but technical or knowledge-based skills aren't what's valued, which is what makes you have leverage in other environments. Everything you mention about driving metrics, managing a team etc. is no different from what a McDonald's manager has to deal with, and I wouldn't consider managing a fast food chain to be a "skilled" job, you just need someone with the personality to handle it.

 

[deleted885753]

There are certainly "skills" involved with retail pharmacy but technical or knowledge-based skills aren't what's valued, which is what makes you have leverage in other environments. Everything you mention about driving metrics, managing a team etc. is no different from what a McDonald's manager has to deal with, and I wouldn't consider managing a fast food chain to be a "skilled" job, you just need someone with the personality to handle it.

Umm.. You won’t kill someone or invite $5 mil lawsuit if you give wrong burger to someone..

Try again..

 

[Marzapan]

Umm.. You won’t kill someone or invite $5 mil lawsuit if you give wrong burger to someone..

Try again..

You also don't get paid 4x the salary of someone who does the exact same work and are just as liable as you. Do you think Mcdonalds managers make 4x the salary of their employees? That's why pharmacist salaries are dropping and will stabilize at just a few bucks above tech pay...

 

[mentos]

Do you honestly believe retail pharmacy requires no skill?

There is endless pressure to drive metric: immunizations, filling prescriptions with little help, growing business, driving customer satisfaction surveys, dealing with difficult customers/ employees/ upper management and problem solving and all while following policies/ laws.

Majority of pharmacists/ technicians aren’t cut out for this environment and the good ones are the asset to their employers.

Do I think salaries will go down? Most certainly. But someone who says they will find dedicated people to work for $30 an hour is out of their mind..

Be real man, anyone can do a retail pharmacist's job. The computer does 99% of the work for you. What are the chances of killing someone in retail? Every interaction is flagged. That's why it took Walgreens 12 years to figure out a tech was working as a pharmacist.

 

[deleted885753]

You also don't get paid 4x the salary of someone who does the exact same work and are just as liable as you. Do you think Mcdonalds managers make 4x the salary of their employees? That's why pharmacist salaries are dropping and will stabilize at just a few bucks above tech pay...

Pharmacists make considerably more because they take on the liability..

Techs don’t make mistakes; pharmacists do. That’s why physicians have higher pay than PAs/ NPs because liability for the later is far lesser..

 

[deleted885753]

Be real man, anyone can do a retail pharmacist's job. The computer does 99% of the work for you. What are the chances of killing someone in retail? Every interaction is flagged. That's why it took Walgreens 12 years to figure out a tech was working as a pharmacist.

It’s pretty much like saying pilot doesn’t do any work.. Entire flying can be automated and honestly you don’t really need pilot there. Why keep them then?

 

[mentos]

It’s pretty much like saying pilot doesn’t do any work.. Entire flying can be automated and honestly you don’t really need pilot there. Why keep them then?

Actually that's pretty true. Pilots nowadays only do the take off and landing. The rest is automated.

 

[deleted885753]

Actually that's pretty true. Pilots nowadays only do the take off and landing. The rest is automated.

Yeah but since it’s so easy, why pay them 70-80 grand? Why not just teach air hostess basic take off and landing? Give them few bucks more an hour, eliminate pilots and save billions?

 

[mentos]

Yeah but since it’s so easy, why pay them 70-80 grand? Why not just teach air hostess basic take off and landing? Give in few bucks more an hour, eliminate pilots and save billions?

That's what's happening to pharmacists if haven't noticed. Techs are getting more pharmacist duties, one day they might replace us. Each of your replies just further proves my point.

 

[PharmDminus]

Yeah but since it’s so easy, why pay them 70-80 grand? Why not just teach air hostess basic take off and landing? Give them few bucks more an hour, eliminate pilots and save billions?

most pilots make more than that. and it has nothing at all to do with liability. it is purely supply and demand. 10 years ago pilots were make 35k. How much do school bus drivers make? that is a lot of liability driving 50 little kids around

 

[NorthTexasPharmacist]

You also don't get paid 4x the salary of someone who does the exact same work and are just as liable as you. Do you think Mcdonalds managers make 4x the salary of their employees? That's why pharmacist salaries are dropping and will stabilize at just a few bucks above tech pay...

Honestly, this is very untrue and almost insulting to our profession. Having worked at CVS, I know they have turned their pharmacy into a circus but that does not mean all the other retail setting pharmacies are like that. Most independent pharmacies still function very well as a health care facility where clinical knowledge is used to consult patients. Everyday I encounter several patients who is inquiring about their disease states, medications, OTCs etc where I actually have to have an in-depth conversation and educate them. I am still having to look up things at times to answer their questions and am studying at least once a week to keep up with guidelines and read relevant journals.

Just because CVS/Wag/Walmart are turning our profession into nothing more than someone who scan the right drug, does not mean we have to comply and follow their rules. We need to get our profession back under our control. Adhering to their manipulation and comparing ourselves to managers at McDonalds is an insult to our profession.

 

[Marzapan]

Honestly, this is very untrue and almost insulting to our profession. Having worked at CVS, I know they have turned their pharmacy into a circus but that does not mean all the other retail setting pharmacies are like that. Most independent pharmacies still function very well as a health care facility where clinical knowledge is used to consult patients. Everyday I encounter several patients who is inquiring about their disease states, medications, OTCs etc where I actually have to have an in-depth conversation and educate them. I am still having to look up things at times to answer their questions and am studying at least once a week to keep up with guidelines and read relevant journals.

Just because CVS/Wag/Walmart are turning our profession into nothing more than someone who scan the right drug, does not mean we have to comply and follow their rules. We need to get our profession back under our control. Adhering to their manipulation and comparing ourselves to managers at McDonalds is an insult to our profession.

It's not an insult, it's the truth. Learn to deal with it. I do think, though, that pharmacists in hospital outpatient settings are the ones that can "function like a health care facility" and truly make a difference because they have access to patient's medical records, diagnoses etc. due to information sharing within the health system, which enables them to actually counsel effectively. Contrast this to chain retail or independents where at BEST you might have their medication history and that's it - how exactly are you going to know how to counsel or check a prescription for digoxin, for example, if you don't have lab values that estimate renal function? Or recommend an alternative antidepressant if you are not aware of any pre-existing contraindications? You can't, so you end up giving generic counseling points which are not helpful to anyone at all. And that's IF you even spend more than 5 seconds on counseling.

 

[deleted885753]

Tbh what work can hospital pharmacist do that can’t be learned within a month? Warfarin dosing based on INR? Vancomycin dosing? IV to PO conversion? Doesn’t seem like a rocket science to me..

CEOs who earn millions do the same work as McDonald’s managers ie “just” managing people and driving business. Guess they can be replaced too with someone making $30 an hour.

Didn’t know that Scam had another account made 10 years ago 🙂

 

[Marzapan]

Tbh what work can hospital pharmacist do that can’t be learned within a month? Warfarin dosing based on INR? Vancomycin dosing? IV to PO conversion? Doesn’t seem like a rocket science to me..

Well yeah, why else do you think hospital pharmacists are being furloughed? The issues in retail pharmacy are different from the issues in hospital pharmacy, but common to both lines of work is the inability to demonstrate solid ROI. That's why when one area of pharmacy goes under, it affects all the other lines of pharmacy. The death of retail pharmacy is like a cancer metastasizing - only a matter of time until it reaches your other organs.

 

[deleted885753]

Well yeah, why else do you think hospital pharmacists are being furloughed? The issues in retail pharmacy are different from the issues in hospital pharmacy, but common to both lines of work is the inability to demonstrate solid ROI. That's why when one area of pharmacy goes under, it affects all the other lines of pharmacy. The death of retail pharmacy is like a cancer metastasizing - only a matter of time until it reaches your other organs.

Welcome back Scam.. I reported you last time around but won’t do it again. Everyone has a right to express themselves. Admire your resilience.

@mentos must be over the moon to have you and that rental guy back..

 

[deleted885753]

You report someone because that person doesn’t agree with you? [emoji23]

Not because of that.. He had a history of derailing every thread with “death of pharmacy”; even when it had no relevance to the topic. For example, if you create a travel thread, he was the type of guy would start posting about how no pharmacist will be able to afford traveling in next two years because of pharmacy death etc..

 

[deleted885753]

Isn’t that kinda true? If you don’t have work then you can’t travel.

If all you want to do is discuss the demise of this profession, might as well shut down this forum since there is nothing else left to discuss..

 

[Marzapan]

Welcome back Scam.. I reported you last time around but won’t do it again. Everyone has a right to express themselves. Admire your resilience.

@mentos must be over the moon to have you and that rental guy back..

Not because of that.. He had a history of derailing every thread with “death of pharmacy”; even when it had no relevance to the topic. For example, if you create a travel thread, he was the type of guy would start posting about how no pharmacist will be able to afford traveling in next two years because of pharmacy death etc..

I don't get where you are coming from. I was agreeing with @BenJammin that there's nothing wrong with paying PICs $25-30/hr and you started some debate over the "worth" of pharmacists and demanding higher pay so your accusations of my derailing threads are baseless. I'm not some random troll but am simply a long time lurker who decided to start posting again because I happen to have time. If you want to accuse me of being someone else, then so be it. But go ahead and accuse moolman and everyone else who posts "negative" things about pharmacy as being a dup account of mine...

 

[mentos]

Welcome back Scam.. I reported you last time around but won’t do it again. Everyone has a right to express themselves. Admire your resilience.

@mentos must be over the moon to have you and that rental guy back..

So you're the snitch that keeps getting everyone banned?!

 

[Marzapan]

So you're the snitch that keeps getting everyone banned?!

Probably. I only started posting because everyone was getting banned from this sub so there's no more entertainment value lol.