School averages on NBDEs?

[pktchris]

Does anyone know where you can find out how all of the d-schools' students did on the NBDEs part1 & 2 last year? I think it is a good measure of educational quality at a given school, but I have not been able to find this info on the net
chris

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[Bickle]

This has been asked many times, and everytime it has, no one has been able to answer it.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

There is not a single source to get it. The way to get that info is call the school and ask.

 

[ItsGavinC]

And it isn't always a good measure of educational quality. It is probably a better marker of caliber of student.

Reason being, there will always be students who desire nothing more than to practice general dentistry and have no desire to pursue even a single PGY of training. In this case, students only need score a 75 to pass their boards. And yes, many students feel fine scoring an 80 or an 85.

Those super high scores are seen many times in correlation with which school they attend, but most often those scores correlate BETTER with the students themselves. Meaning, students who did well in undergrad, marked high on the DAT, learned easily in dental school, and then blew the NBDE I out of the water.

I think there is a stronger correlation with high scores and students that are motivated to study hard and suceed, then there is between high scores and curriculum or institution.

My thoughts, no flames please.

 

[pktchris]

you make a good point Gavin. don't expect any flames here, I welcome any and all opinions--after all this is a forum right?
chris

 

[grettlin2]

I agree with Gavin.

 

[Apoptosis]

This is one of the few times I agree with Gavin. Its about the students, not the curriculum.

 

[Supernumerary]

You will quickly find that dental school is very, very different from undergrad. It's not about memorizing every word that comes out of a professor's mouth. It's about using the lectures as a basis for your own study. You will get out of any school what you put into it.

I agree with Gavin that board scores are probably more an indication of the type of students in a program. For example, there are many, many students at MCG who score mid 90's on NBDE I. But there are even more who score 78 cause they know that's all they've got to do. (I will probably be one of these )

Although... I think my class might have a somewhat higher average than usual - full to the brim with gunners.

BTW, MCG placed #14 on last year's NBDE if you care - which you probably don't.

 

[boboli_chef]

Maybe this would be a great time to start compiling a list of board stats. Many of us have asked about the numbers when visiting schools -- perhaps we can all share that data and keep a running list just like in the "Acceptances" thread. For example,

UConn - 91
Case - 86

etc. (yes, those are real part I average scores that I got straight from my interviewers, rounded to whole numbers).

But I do agree with Gavin about the "importance" of such numbers. Still, averages are such a commonly asked question on SDN, so why not have a list ready since there doesn't appear to be one on the web?

 

[KMF]

Harvard's average for 2003 for NBDE I is 94.6
At my UCLA interview, they said that they were #2 for NBDE I 2003, but they didn't give me the average.

I agree with everyone that this does not determine the quality of a school and is only one of the many aspects you should consider when choosing the best school for you.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Typically schools will NOT give averages out unless you are a student enrolled there.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Apoptosis
This is one of the few times I agree with Gavin.

3,670 posts and you only agree with me a few times!? Bad track record, eh?

 

[arns51]

Originally posted by KMF
Harvard's average for 2003 for NBDE I is 94.6

Wow, no wonder basically the entire class specializes. Tufts gave us their average at the interview, I cant find it right now but I believe it was right around the national average over the past couple years. Anybody else have it?

 

[boboli_chef]

Tufts - 85.9, just a hair above the nat'l average. Straight from the interview packet.

 

[ShawnOne]

anybody know the ave score for BU or USC?

 

[Rezdawg]

At my interview at UT-Houston, they told us that all three texas schools have between a 90-95% pass rate.

1/3 of UT-Houston students scored 90th percentile or higher.

 

[Doggie]

i know the NBDE part 1 for columbia in 2003.......however, it's like one of those secret chinese kung fu thing.....i could tell you, but then i'll have to kill you........

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Rezdawg
At my interview at UT-Houston, they told us that all three texas schools have between a 90-95% pass rate.

I'd be quite surprised if many US dental schools didn't have at least a 90% pass rate. A 95% pass rate ought to be quite common.

In some sections you can miss 60/100 questions and still pass.

Passing the NBDE I is NOT difficult at all. If you've gone to class somewhat you can pass

Doing extremely well is another story.

 

[Rezdawg]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I'd be quite surprised if many US dental schools didn't have at least a 90% pass rate. A 95% pass rate ought to be quite common.

I completely agree. But they also told us that the national average is around 80%.

 

[Doggie]

Originally posted by KMF
Harvard's average for 2003 for NBDE I is 94.6

It's freakishly amazing how harvard has that high of board scores!

Perhaps those at harvard can correct me.........

BUT

(here comes the anecdote) I hear that the school gives out mock board exams to every student. Those students who perform poorly are refrained from taking the actual board exams until they can boost their scores.

Also, did anyone see the 20/20 report (it was about 2 years ago) on grade inflation for harvard's undergrad?? Basically, even if the students deserved a "C", the profs would still give "A's".

I dont mean to flame.......but I do wish that someone can clarify any of this!

 

[KMF]

What does the grade inflation thing for Undergraduates at Harvard have to do with the dental school there? Harvard is pass/fail anyway so there is no grade inflation for the dental school. If they discourage you from taking the boards until you are ready to take them and do well, what's wrong with that? I personally would rather only take it once and do well than taking it and not doing well and then deciding to take it again especially if you want to get into a specialty program.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by KMF
What does the grade inflation thing for Undergraduates at Harvard have to do with the dental school there? Harvard is pass/fail anyway so there is no grade inflation for the dental school. If they discourage you from taking the boards until you are ready to take them and do well, what's wrong with that? I personally would rather only take it once and do well than taking it and not doing well and then deciding to take it again especially if you want to get into a specialty program.

Nothing is wrong with that, people are just trying to analyze the significance/validity of the statistics offered. If Harvard excludes those who are not prepared, their averages will naturally be higher independent of any academic advantage since no other school does something like that. Like that Mark Twain quote: "There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Or something like that...

 

[Doggie]

Originally posted by jaap
Nothing is wrong with that, people are just trying to analyze the significance/validity of the statistics offered. If Harvard excludes those who are not prepared, their averages will naturally be higher independent of any academic advantage since no other school does something like that. Like that Mark Twain quote: "There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Or something like that...

Thanks jaap...........I couldnt have said better.....

 

[StarGirl]

Originally posted by pdepapas
I actually asked a student about it when I was at Harvard, and the student didn't know what I was talking about. She has never heard of anything like that. So i'm just assuming that is just a rumor then?

my friend told me something like that about U$C last yr (when he was a 1st yr)...that U$C gives mock exams and the students have to get a certain score to take the board....

...there's a Harvard student that transfered to my class... maybe i'll ask her... but i don't think it matters that much... I'll bet the other top school's top 30ish students will have the same or similar averages.... just study

 

[Rezdawg]

UT-Houston has a mock exam. But, if you dont do well on it, you still have to take the boards. Its just a prep for the real thing.

 

[pixies_fan]

Originally posted by StarGirl
...there's a Harvard student that transfered to my class... maybe i'll ask her...

Hey Stargirl- would you mind sharing why she transferred?

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by StarGirl
my friend told me something like that about U$C last yr (when he was a 1st yr)...that U$C gives mock exams and the students have to get a certain score to take the board....

...there's a Harvard student that transfered to my class... maybe i'll ask her... but i don't think it matters that much... I'll bet the other top school's top 30ish students will have the same or similar averages.... just study

True. USC gives a mock board before allowing students to take the real exam.

 

[larryt]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
True. USC gives a mock board before allowing students to take the real exam.

Same for Case