Scope of Podiatry in Illinois and Wisconsin?

[cool_vkb]

can someone plz post or give me the link on SCOPE of practice of Podiatrists in Illinois and also in Wisconsin.

i know podiatrists have x-rays in their offices but can a podiatrists own a MRI and Ultrasound. i know its too early to think, but my parents are in Diagnostic Radiology business. we own a MRI center in partnership with a Radiologist. i plan to open my own MRI Diagnostic Center. Are Podiatrists eligible for that. i mean not reading the reports but just to own and manage the MRI center.

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[doclm]

can someone plz post or give me the link on SCOPE of practice of Podiatrists in Illinois and also in Wisconsin.

i know podiatrists have x-rays in their offices but can a podiatrists own a MRI and Ultrasound. i know its too early to think, but my parents are in Diagnostic Radiology business. we own a MRI center in partnership with a Radiologist. i plan to open my own MRI Diagnostic Center. Are Podiatrists eligible for that. i mean not reading the reports but just to own and manage the MRI center.

The answer of your question would be yes. Podiatrists can independently order MRI scans, or any other radiological devices that would help them diagnose a problem in their scope of practice. So, it a POD could afford having an MRI, or get enough use out of it, they may have one.

We actually had a DPM speak at one of our interprofessional team classes who was educating the other medical specialties in the realm of Podiatry. He mentioned, unlike PA's, we can order things (such as labs and radiology) for our patients independently of MD's.

 

[capo]

The answer of your question would be yes. Podiatrists can independently order MRI scans, or any other radiological devices that would help them diagnose a problem in their scope of practice. So, it a POD could afford having an MRI, or get enough use out of it, they may have one.

We actually had a DPM speak at one of our interprofessional team classes who was educating the other medical specialties in the realm of Podiatry. He mentioned, unlike PA's, we can order things (such as labs and radiology) for our patients independently of MD's.

doclm, Haha... what's even MORE scary is that chiropractors can order labs and radiology as well in many states w/out MD's too. Now that's scary, huh?

I'm not bashing chiropractors but that's still a weird concept that they can do that and PA's can't.

 

[cool_vkb]

thanks boss.

 

[cool_vkb]

doclm, Haha... what's even MORE scary is that chiropractors can order labs and radiology as well in many states w/out MD's too. Now that's scary, huh?

I'm not bashing chiropractors but that's still a weird concept that they can do that and PA's can't.

ha ha ha! take this shock. Chiropractors not only order MRIs but they even have their own Chiropractic Radiologist. His credentials are DABCR (Diplomate of the American Chiropractic Board of Radiology). So after we take MRI we have to send the reports to this person. not our regular Radiologist. And more shock then this, they even have American College of Chiropractic Radiology like our regualar American College of Radiology

I respect Chiros so far they are treating the Spine with their techniques. there are some really good chiros out there. but a majority of them are kind of crazy. they venture in new new things which iam sure many of us are aware.

And no matter how different their curriculum is but still they go to school for 4 yrs, complete 3 yrs residency. A true Chiropractice is a very good alternative to medicine but only for certain things. and its is proven scientifically. they dont need MD for referals. they have their own system of practice. So we cant compare them with PA. PA is different thing, PA is a part of allopathic healthcare system. he hardly spends 2-4 yrs in education and residency (yes they even have residency including Orthopedic Residency) yet enjoys a good number of benefits.

And regarding PAs, if the govt even gives them more rights like to order tests,etc. Then my friend why even call them a PA. lets call them Doctors.then there will be nothing left in their scope of practice that will match that of a basic general practioner. i love PAs and NPs but i just dont like the idea of they being given unnecessary powers.no matter how much the govt glorifies it or there lobby pushes for more independence, they still are gonna be Assistants. i realize their importance and i do respect them .[/QUOTE]

 

[IlizaRob]

And no matter how different their curriculum is but still they go to school for 4 yrs, complete 3 yrs residency.

I've never heard of this.

 

[cool_vkb]

I've never heard of this.

yep thats true! Chiropractors do 3 yr residencies in ChiroOrthopedics, Chiropediatrics, ChiroRadiology, Chiropractic Rehabilitation Residency:and ChiroPrimary Practice. Ha ha ah! Sounds funny right. and they even have fellowships I was also suprised at first. we get a lot of MRIs from Chiros and i know a lot abt this field.

do check out this website:
http://www.palmer.edu/PCC_Clinics/Residencies.htm

incase u wanna read more abt these residency programs.

Now coming back again to the issue of Chiros ordering MRIs. when they have their own College of Radiology, ofcourse they can order tests. And if by mistake our Allopathic Radiologist interpret the MRI report they dont accept it. the MRI or X-ray report has to be interpretted by a certified ChiroPractic Radiologist. Now this guy will never say himself that he is a Chiroradiologist. when u meet him, he gives his introduction as "hye! iam Dr.XYZ, iam a radiologist".

 

[IlizaRob]

yep thats true! Chiropractors do 3 yr residencies in ChiroOrthopedics, Chiropediatrics, ChiroRadiology, Chiropractic Rehabilitation Residency:and ChiroPrimary Practice. Ha ha ah! Sounds funny right. and they even have fellowships I was also suprised at first. we get a lot of MRIs from Chiros and i know a lot abt this field.

do check out this website:
http://www.palmer.edu/PCC_Clinics/Residencies.htm

incase u wanna read more abt these residency programs.

Now coming back again to the issue of Chiros ordering MRIs. when they have their own College of Radiology, ofcourse they can order tests. And if by mistake our Allopathic Radiologist interpret the MRI report they dont accept it. the MRI or X-ray report has to be interpretted by a certified ChiroPractic Radiologist. Now this guy will never say himself that he is a Chiroradiologist. when u meet him, he gives his introduction as "hye! iam Dr.XYZ, iam a radiologist".

Hmmm....interesting. I never new that. I wonder how many spots there are nation wide for a particular residency. Are they only affiliated with the school and their private practice chiros or are some of them hospital based?

 

[cool_vkb]

Hmmm....interesting. I never new that. I wonder how many spots there are nation wide for a particular residency. Are they only affiliated with the school and their private practice chiros or are some of them hospital based?

well many of them are offered by the Chiropractice schools in affiliation with their hospitals and clinics. Some hospitals also offer that but they are very few. The Radiology residency is very competitive. others are relatively easy, just like IM and Family Practice residencies.

 

[BackTalk]

I think I will address some issues since they were brought up. First, I’m not sure why a chiropractor’s scope of practice with regard to ordering imaging or labs is “scary”.

Chiropractors utilize the use of medical and or chiropractic radiologists. Not sure why this is a shock to anyone, I guess its due to a lack of understanding that within chiropractic that there are specialties and one of these is the DACBR. These radiologists are very bright and becoming a chiropractic radiologist is not an easy task. They are very good at their craft. I would be more concerned if a DC did not utilize any over reads. Some don’t and to me that’s playing Russian roulette. Although we have a solid education in imaging we are not radiologists. There are many reasons for a DC to utilize these imagines. The most important is to rule out disease or confirm diagnosis.

A chiropractic radiologist’s diagnosis is no different than a medical radiologist. I have never in my entire career ever seen a report from a chiropractic radiologist that mentions subluxations. I don’t understand the need for an outside radiologist other than for a second opinion. I have never heard of an imaging center or hospital taking films and not having them read first by their staff radiologist. They are responsible for what is on the films and I doubt there is an arrangement where the hospital or imaging center takes the films and sends them to someone that does not work for them. There are chiropractic radiologists that read for imaging centers so its possible the radiologist works for them. Most doctors don’t announce their specialty when they introduce themselves. They just say I am doctor so and so and leave it at that. Then when asked what type of doctor they are, they should say, “I’m a chiropractic radiologist”.

The chiropractic residency program is offered through the Chiropractic College. Most spots are typically only for 1-2 radiologists and only a few schools offer the residency. This field is very competitive and it’s not easy to land a spot. Some colleges have arrangements with local hospitals and some do not. Some have arrangements with imaging facilities. The program covers all aspects of radiology but I would say the main training is in musculoskeletal. All programs are challenging and governed by the board. The requirements for all are the same. The colleges do not make or bend the rules. All radiologists must sit and pass the same board examinations. The tests do not vary from school to school.

http://www.accr.org/Radiologist_description.htm

 

[doclm]

I think I will address some issues since they were brought up. First, I’m not sure why a chiropractor’s scope of practice with regard to ordering imaging or labs is “scary”.

Chiropractors utilize the use of medical and or chiropractic radiologists. Not sure why this is a shock to anyone, I guess its due to a lack of understanding that within chiropractic that there are specialties and one of these is the DACBR. These radiologists are very bright and becoming a chiropractic radiologist is not an easy task. They are very good at their craft. I would be more concerned if a DC did not utilize any over reads. Some don’t and to me that’s playing Russian roulette. Although we have a solid education in imaging we are not radiologists. There are many reasons for a DC to utilize these imagines. The most important is to rule out disease or confirm diagnosis.

A chiropractic radiologist’s diagnosis is no different than a medical radiologist. I have never in my entire career ever seen a report from a chiropractic radiologist that mentions subluxations. I don’t understand the need for an outside radiologist other than for a second opinion. I have never heard of an imaging center or hospital taking films and not having them read first by their staff radiologist. They are responsible for what is on the films and I doubt there is an arrangement where the hospital or imaging center takes the films and sends them to someone that does not work for them. There are chiropractic radiologists that read for imaging centers so its possible the radiologist works for them. Most doctors don’t announce their specialty when they introduce themselves. They just say I am doctor so and so and leave it at that. Then when asked what type of doctor they are, they should say, “I’m a chiropractic radiologist”.

The chiropractic residency program is offered through the Chiropractic College. Most spots are typically only for 1-2 radiologists and only a few schools offer the residency. This field is very competitive and it’s not easy to land a spot. Some colleges have arrangements with local hospitals and some do not. Some have arrangements with imaging facilities. The program covers all aspects of radiology but I would say the main training is in musculoskeletal. All programs are challenging and governed by the board. The requirements for all are the same. The colleges do not make or bend the rules. All radiologists must sit and pass the same board examinations. The tests do not vary from school to school.

http://www.accr.org/Radiologist_description.htm

I don't mean to be ignorant towards your profession, but I may just be uneducated about what a Chiropractor does. Why would a Chiropractic doctor look at labs? What would a Chiropractor do more than manipulate the spine and check the range of motions? I know the extent of education that many DC's recieve, I have a friend in the Biomedical Science Program at National. However, it is unclear to me the extent of medical treatment that can be and is within the scope of Chiropractic Medicine?

Thanks

 

[gustydoc]

My brother in law is a chiro. He went to three years of chiropractic school in MN which is the norm from what I understand. He told me that there is a four year program for those who need a lighter course load and few chiropractors seek additional training beyond the three year degree.

 

[cool_vkb]

My brother in law is a chiro. He went to three years of chiropractic school in MN which is the norm from what I understand. He told me that there is a four year program for those who need a lighter course load and few chiropractors seek additional training beyond the three year degree.

there are more than 7-8 chiroschools in USA. A majority of them are 4yrs. Show me any other school apart from mineesota that has a 3yr curriculum. No way, chiro is a 4yr school. And even in minnesota it is an option. people who want to graduate early take that. but its not like everybody graduates in 3yrs.

 

[doclm]

My brother in law is a chiro. He went to three years of chiropractic school in MN which is the norm from what I understand. He told me that there is a four year program for those who need a lighter course load and few chiropractors seek additional training beyond the three year degree.

Bloomington right?

I know a couple ladies at the Mankato Chiropractic Clinic who went there for a 3yr as well.

 

[BackTalk]

I don't mean to be ignorant towards your profession, but I may just be uneducated about what a Chiropractor does. Why would a Chiropractic doctor look at labs? What would a Chiropractor do more than manipulate the spine and check the range of motions? I know the extent of education that many DC's recieve, I have a friend in the Biomedical Science Program at National. However, it is unclear to me the extent of medical treatment that can be and is within the scope of Chiropractic Medicine?

Thanks

We look at labs just like other doctors would to rule out disease or confirm a diagnosis. Most labs ordered by chiropractors are arthritic panels. Typically we do not order labs for many organic disorders that would require medical treatment. If we suspect something we just refer them to their PCP. If a patient does not have a PCP we may order those types of labs and then inform the patient of the need to see a PCP. There are many problems that can be managed without the use of medications. Many chiropractors look at the patients over all health and look beyond spinal complaints. For instance, a DC may order labs to look at lipid levels and if they are elevated (borderline) they may counsel the patient on diet and exercise and suggest supplementation to help. If they were out of control they would consult with the primary care physician and refer. Manipulation is the chiropractors standard use of treatment for spinal care. It’s not a tool to manage diseases that are pathological or organic in nature. The scope of chiropractic medicine varies from state to state. Most states allow the DC to treat human ailments with out the use of drugs and surgery as taught in Chiropractic College. This may involve the use of homeopathic remedies, clinical nutrition, diet, exercise and acupuncture. Medical treatment involves the use or prescription medications or surgery. The use of either is not within the scope of chiropractic medicine.

 

[gustydoc]

there are more than 7-8 chiroschools in USA. A majority of them are 4yrs. Show me any other school apart from mineesota that has a 3yr curriculum. No way, chiro is a 4yr school. And even in minnesota it is an option. people who want to graduate early take that. but its not like everybody graduates in 3yrs.

Uh, actually the School in KC is a three year program as well. I'm not knocking the profession or the training. I've been to a chiro before and have nothing but positive things to say. I was simply pointing out that what you had mentioned regarding 4yrs of post grad schooling and additional training beyond that is certainly not the norm.

 

[cool_vkb]

Uh, actually the School in KC is a three year program as well. I'm not knocking the profession or the training. I've been to a chiro before and have nothing but positive things to say. I was simply pointing out that what you had mentioned regarding 4yrs of post grad schooling and additional training beyond that is certainly not the norm.

oh man! i guess this thing is way out of proprtion. what i asked in the beginning of the thread was Scope of practice of Podiatrist in Illinois and wisconsin. and here we are discussing Chiropractice. Can we again comeback to the main question. plzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[BackTalk]

Uh, actually the School in KC is a three year program as well. I'm not knocking the profession or the training. I've been to a chiro before and have nothing but positive things to say. I was simply pointing out that what you had mentioned regarding 4yrs of post grad schooling and additional training beyond that is certainly not the norm.

How long is the Doctor of Chiropractic program?
Cleveland Chiropractic College offers two options each containing the same subject areas.

1. The 12-trimester course of study is structured to be completed in four years.
2. The accelerated 10-trimester course of study can be completed in three and a half years.
Cleveland Chiropractic College offers two different ways to complete your Doctorate: 3½ years ( 10 trimesters) or 4 years ( 12 trimesters). The great thing about these options is that you can speed up or slow down your program to fit your educational needs. Whichever trimester program you choose, you will begin in your first trimester with hands-on class learning.

http://www.clevelandchiropractic.edu/about/about_faqs.htm

 

[gustydoc]

How long is the Doctor of Chiropractic program?
Cleveland Chiropractic College offers two options each containing the same subject areas.

1. The 12-trimester course of study is structured to be completed in four years.
2. The accelerated 10-trimester course of study can be completed in three and a half years.
Cleveland Chiropractic College offers two different ways to complete your Doctorate: 3½ years ( 10 trimesters) or 4 years ( 12 trimesters). The great thing about these options is that you can speed up or slow down your program to fit your educational needs. Whichever trimester program you choose, you will begin in your first trimester with hands-on class learning.

http://www.clevelandchiropractic.edu/about/about_faqs.htm

Thanks for clearing that up. I have seen the campus in MN and the looked like really nice facilities. The Oriental medicine pharmacy was a little bizarre though. I couldn't believe some of the stuff they had in there.

 

[wayttk]

Bloomington right?

I know a couple ladies at the Mankato Chiropractic Clinic who went there for a 3yr as well.

As to the confusion of a "three year" program-------There is a difference between academic years, and calendar years.

The curriculum at Northwestern consists of five academic years (three and one-third calendar years). Each year consists of two 15-week trimesters.

The required curriculum for the doctor of chiropractic degree is composed of a sequence of courses offered in 10 separate 15-week trimesters for a minimum total of 4,225.75 contact hours, exclusive of elective courses of study. So in order to complete the program in 3 1/2 years, the student must go 12 mos/year for 31/2 years. Either way, the 4,225.75 contact hours remains the same.

Here is a course listing for Northwestern in Bloomington MN.:
http://www.nwhealth.edu/edprogr/chiro/cusched.html



Manipulation is only one of many DC treatment options. Manipulations are usually complemented by related therapeutics such as physiotherapy, nutrition counseling, exercise training, rehabilitation, and mobilization procedures. Acupuncture(with additional courses and credentialing), may also be incorporated.

 

[KHep]

I would really like to know the answer to the original question (regarding scope) too. Thanks.

 

[AnalBeads]

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[doclm]

Illinois and Wisconsin are very liberal with podiatry laws. Podiatrists can work on bony structures up to and including the ankle joint, and soft tissue below the knee.


As far as Chiros go...
I would appreciate a chiro radiologist. they know more about anatomy than any professional out there. you know the intense lower extremety courses we take? they take anatomy at that detail for the whole body.

Actually, to my surprise, a Chiro is one of our TA's for Gross Anatomy Lab at Scholl. Let me put it this way, this guy really knows his stuff. Chiro's in general take 1.5 yr of Anatomy.