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"Sell out" MDs

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by SmokeyG, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. SmokeyG


    Mar 6, 2011
    I occasionally hear people speak of "sell out MDs". I once asked my cousin if he was referring to those in private practices and he replied that it more that referred to those leaving research and practicing altogether. The only thing I can think of is perhaps working for a pharmaceutical company.

    So I guess my question is, what is he talking about? What other careers require an MD and would categorize as "selling out"? Aside of academic medicine and practicing, what other careers would benefit from an MD at all?
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  3. flatearth22

    flatearth22 7+ Year Member

    medical malpractice trial lawyers, snake oil salesmen, dermatologists, etc.
  4. Cinclus

    Cinclus Es un pájaro. Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Feb 2, 2011
    Behind the waterfall
    Clinical trial consulting
  5. StoicJosher

    StoicJosher Reality?? Check. Lifetime Donor 2+ Year Member

    May 17, 2011
  6. ppfizenm

    ppfizenm 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2010
    30 Rock
    Gupta, Oz, ect
  7. Stumpyman

    Stumpyman 5+ Year Member

    Jun 29, 2011
    :laugh: First thing I thought when I read this thread.
  8. pooghe

    pooghe 7+ Year Member

    Jan 8, 2009
    There are no sellout MDs. They paid their way through med school with loans and/or their own money. They don't owe anyone anything and can use their degrees however they see fit. If in the US the government funded med school then we could make the argument that they were selling out by not practicing. But seeing as each individual pays their own way through, they can do whatever they want with the degree including going on TV, working in malpractice and doing consulting.
  9. whoMD

    whoMD 5+ Year Member

    Jul 4, 2010
    who do you think pays for residency?
  10. eHombre

    eHombre 2+ Year Member

    May 17, 2011
  11. HoltMD

    HoltMD Banned

    Jan 2, 2012

    Oz definitely! Gupta, not sure; since he does more journalism rather then promoting crappy products and healing practices.
  12. EBTrailRunner

    EBTrailRunner 5+ Year Member

    Jul 27, 2011
    I tend to agree with this statement. We all have to go through 4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency, etc., often during our "prime" and accruing significant financial debt in the process. After working through all that, I think you've earned the right to use your degree as you see fit. I can see why people would consider Dr. Oz to be a "sellout," but there's a need for doctors like him as well, those who reach out to a large audience, even if his cause is not as altruistic as we imagine a doctor's should be.
  13. ppfizenm

    ppfizenm 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2010
    30 Rock
    There's is getting paid to use your degree and getting paid to tout the party line of whoever is paying you using your degree as a speaking platform. One of these is selling out.
  14. tima

    tima 7+ Year Member

    Jun 27, 2007
    East Coast
    The Doctors TV Show.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  15. Morsetlis

    Morsetlis I wish I were a dentist 7+ Year Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    The "Garden" State
    Did they make the Paragon or Renegade choice?
  16. kami333

    kami333 10+ Year Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    Anyone who joins the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.
    Stanislaw Burzynski
    Mark Geier
    Jay Gordon
    Joesph Mercola
  17. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Mar 7, 2005
    Those that work for insurance companies and spend their days reviewing and denying claims?
  18. Socrates25

    Socrates25 7+ Year Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    Those who train and "supervise" midlevels. Also, hired gun whore "expert" witnesses.

    A bunch of scalawags who should have their licenses revoked.
  19. BA11

    BA11 It's always lupus 5+ Year Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    I have no problem with anybody getting as much as they can, when they can and as fast as they can so long as whatever they are doing is legal. Even if I don't agree with what you are doing, this is a country founded on ambition and I'm never going to hold it against somebody for getting as far ahead in life as they possibly can. I may not LIKE them or what they do, but I'll never fault anyone for making more money than me.

    You think Dr. Oz is a sell out? You just plain don't like him? Neither do I, and I'm sure he'll be crying about our opinion of him all the way to the bank.
  20. BA11

    BA11 It's always lupus 5+ Year Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    Would you rather someone less qualified deny their claims? Or does the very thought of denying claims just break your whittle heart?
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  21. I think I saw the contrails of Lizzy's point as it flew right over your whittle head. :rolleyes:
  22. MT Headed

    MT Headed snow, PBR, and bears Lifetime Donor 2+ Year Member

    May 27, 2011
    teh Big Sky!
    Applicants who say they are going to practice rural medicine in their PS and on the interview trail, but change their minds after an acceptance.

  23. alerk323

    alerk323 5+ Year Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    My father worked as one of these expert witnesses. He has a family to provide for, 3 kids to put through college, etc etc. he also was working in primary care at the time in a private practice with 3,000 + patients. Is he a sell out? It's easy to cry about people who've figured out a way to make an extra buck and it's easy to throw out judgments without knowing almost any of the story. This goes for every profession, but doctors for sure seem to have a higher moral standard to live up too in order to avoid condemnation.
  24. theseeker4

    theseeker4 PGY 1 5+ Year Member

    Many of these "expert" witnesses give whatever opinion the lawyer hiring them wants, regardless of whether it has any basis in medical practice or scientific fact. Just as there are plenty cases where a suit against a doctor has merit, there are witnesses who give their honest opinion about a case without (consciously) altering it to fit their (potential) employer's viewpoint.

    If your father was/is an expert witness who based/s all of his testimony on the facts of the case, standard of care, and real medical science, standing by that opinion even if the attorney who approaches him about testifying refuses to hire him because it isn't the story the attorney wants, he is certainly not deserving of condemnation.

    If he was the hired gun type, willing to say anything to get paid (as far too many expert witness physicians are), he is absolutely deserving of condemnation and should lose his license.
  25. kami333

    kami333 10+ Year Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    He's not a sell out because he's on TV, he's a sell out for promoting reiki and faith healing.
  26. alerk323

    alerk323 5+ Year Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    yes, I agree, and I think if he were doing that, or anyone, it would be breaking the law in some sort of way. (I'm not sure exactly the details but perjury seems a possibility). Regardless, I don't think people are arguing that doctors acting illegally should be condemned. The problem is a lot of people paint with a very large brush. I would expect that most expert witnesses act according to the standards you described, rather than as a "hired gun".
  27. QuizzicalApe

    QuizzicalApe 5+ Year Member

    Mar 28, 2010
    Tapping into ley lines to channel the power of our spirit animals to throw fireballs is a perfectly legitimate form of healomancy.
  28. circulus vitios

    circulus vitios 7+ Year Member

    Jul 18, 2008
    That is one of the greatest medical education lies ever told. Well, other than "residents actually cost the hospital money."
  29. Bacchus

    Bacchus SDN Senior Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    SDN Author
    While I respect your father's plight, its not well respected in the medical community to stab your peers in the back. He got the bills paid; now you get to apply to medical school. However, this reeks of bad juju.
  30. ppfizenm

    ppfizenm 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2010
    30 Rock
    Their are MD's who work in movies/TV/books that I don't consider sellouts. Michael Crichton for instance
  31. HealthHare

    HealthHare 7+ Year Member

    Jul 17, 2010
    A bet there are very few people on this forum that would turn down multi-million dollar contracts to host TV shows talking about medicine. I can't hate a man for getting that cheese:D
  32. mipp0

    mipp0 7+ Year Member

    Sep 10, 2008
    Laughed out loud :laugh:

    Hey man, we are all growing, and our interests change. Our bodies change, our needs change, the people we want to see and the surroundings we want change. Plus, you mentioned you would have gone rural med if the WICHE schools showed you more love, so it's all fair.

    Plus, NOLA is beautiful. I loved your PS BTW.

    Not feeling Chicago?

    Why are you guys hating on Dr. Gupta? He's done some great work man :mad:
  33. ajc28

    ajc28 2+ Year Member

    Feb 2, 2010
    Ron Paul!
  34. BuSyDaZe

    BuSyDaZe *1BusyLady* 5+ Year Member

    Apr 30, 2010
    Busy Town
    Or those who actually NEVER really intended to do so from the beginning. Just used it as a campaign to get into medical school.
  35. Bacchus

    Bacchus SDN Senior Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    SDN Author
    You have to play the game. There's a good probability what you say at the beginning of medical school will change anyway.
  36. TriagePreMed

    TriagePreMed Banned Banned 2+ Year Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    One of the doctors I shadowed does this. I guess I won't be mentioning this in my application :laugh:
  37. Stumpyman

    Stumpyman 5+ Year Member

    Jun 29, 2011
    Get out.

    Kidding. Reason?
  38. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man 7+ Year Member

    I guess this means that I should get my license revoked.
  39. alerk323

    alerk323 5+ Year Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    A good example of the general ignorance that seems to surround the subject, whether it be your own, or "the medical community's" that you refer to.

    If you abide by all of your professional ethics and what not, it's a very legitimate service. Doctors make mistakes that they should be held accountable for, a good expert witness will give a completely objective view of the facts and let the legal system work it's magic. While there are a lot of frivolous malpractice suits, it is the expert witness's job to help differentiate between legitimate issues and frivolous ones. Is that stabbing a peer in the back if, in turns out, the doctor was indeed negligent?
  40. Bacchus

    Bacchus SDN Senior Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    SDN Author
    The defendant isn't going to say "Hey, in my professional opinion, this suit has no merit." The defendant's witnesses are selected to win the case, no matter what degree of negligence doesn't exist on the plaintiff's behalf.
  41. alerk323

    alerk323 5+ Year Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    I'm not sure how it works once in court itself. But my dad has said that for the cases that usually come across his desk he says exactly that, but obviously with way more specifics. In fact, he's only been in court maybe 3 or 4 times. Very few cases go to court. so no, this is not how it works at all and is another good example of how most people just kinda brush it off as immoral while no knowing very little about the actual process. I expect that if the expert says that the doctor is innocent, he wouldn't call on him in court. Than again, there are two sides and both usually utilize experts, at least for research and I know at least of a couple times when he has been called in as a witness to defend the doctor.
  42. BeanDip4All

    BeanDip4All emt-abcdefgh 7+ Year Member

    Jul 9, 2009
    Palo Alto, CA
    Dr. Oz call out battle rap:


    oh, I'll add concierge docs!
  43. notbobtrustme

    notbobtrustme Crux Terminatus Banned Account on Hold 2+ Year Member

    Jun 28, 2011
    ****, I'd fart right in Jesus's face if it meant admission to med school.
  44. Slack3r

    Slack3r Sicker than your average 7+ Year Member

    Jul 23, 2008
  45. Dave89

    Dave89 ACCOUNT ON HOLD Account on Hold 5+ Year Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    The Camp of the Saints
  46. Mazdave

    Mazdave 2+ Year Member

    Feb 1, 2011
    The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a group of physicians that opposes evidence-based medicine and promotes views such as that the FDA is unconstitutional, HIV doesn't cause AIDS, and illegal immigrants carry leprosy.
  47. Microshaft

    Microshaft 5+ Year Member

    Feb 15, 2012
    I did not know this. The creator of jurassic park... and many novels a harvard md
  48. jessiemsy

    jessiemsy 2+ Year Member

    Apr 17, 2011
    Thanks for this! Awesome
  49. ppfizenm

    ppfizenm 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2010
    30 Rock
    Created ER too
  50. cincincyreds

    cincincyreds 5+ Year Member

    May 9, 2010
    How about Dr. Murray. Wouldn't that be an MD selling out?
  51. ppfizenm

    ppfizenm 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2010
    30 Rock
    the natural medicine guy or the one who was found guilty in the MJ death trial?

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