SGU's "Pay It Forward"...?

[aharr157]

I recently found out about St.George's "Pay It Foward" campaign where you basically start classes at SGU in Jaunuary and if you get accepted to a US school within the year and matriculate August of that year, SGU will refund your tuition. Thoughts? It just seemed a little too good to be true...

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[neurosurgery_2023]

It's not too good to be true, because statistically most acceptances are handed out before January. Also, the students most likely to do this are not competitive anyways, so it is most likely that SGU will retain most students who participate in this program.

The only upside for those students (if you can call it that) is that they'll be graduating a semester early and hopefully will have more time to study for their Steps.

 

[Lucca]

Don’t go to the Carib. under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Don’t go to the Carib. under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

[LM75]

SGU is a real program and produces real doctors. Anybody who argues "no" to the Caribbean is most probably in some geographical location that is not IMG-friendly.

As far as the pay it forward, I'd say it's only an option for a certain kind of student. Either you have the stats for US programs or you don't. There is no in-between where you try SGU out and then get into a US program.

If you ever go to SGU, you have to have SGU-type focus. You can't go there with only one foot on the island and the other waiting for a US spot. You'll get destroyed at SGU without being all-in. When you're at SGU, you're competing against your classmates for the duration of your time there. You won't have that stress in a US program so figure out where you really stand.

If you're a borderline candidate, just skip the SGU option unless SGU becomes your only option.

 

[bananafish94]

They are a for-profit institution. Therefore, they must be making money off this if they are offering it. And you are likely the source of that money.

 

[LM75]

They are a for-profit institution. Therefore, they must be making money off this if they are offering it. And you are likely the source of that money.

They're don't make money in the literal sense but if they offer this option and even 50 students, who would otherwise not go to SGU, take it and they retain even 10 of those students who never did get a US acceptance then they make loads of money off the tuition...whether you graduate or not. It's a no-lose option for them because 50 of those students will not get a US spot.

 

[958587]

Getting into medical school, and med school itself is a marathon. Making sure that you take your time in your choices is huge. Caribbean schools can put you at a disadvantage when it comes to residency applications. Also you would have to factor in moving down to start school and then moving back to attend a US medical school.

 

[RNtoMD87]

SGU is a real program and produces real doctors. Anybody who argues "no" to the Caribbean is most probably in some geographical location that is not IMG-friendly.

I wonder this too. I know of several doctors that went Caribbean and they only have good things to say about it. Ive had a couple push me to go carribean. I wouldn't want to, but apparently a lot of people get through it fine.

 

[Med Ed]

I recently found out about St.George's "Pay It Foward" campaign where you basically start classes at SGU in Jaunuary and if you get accepted to a US school within the year and matriculate August of that year, SGU will refund your tuition. Thoughts? It just seemed a little too good to be true...

It's brilliant. I'm willing to bet it will push a number of really marginal candidates "off the fence"and into the Caribbean. And after they arrive in Grenada, when it becomes apparent that the onshore schools are not going to come knocking, they're stuck in the quicksand of medical school debt. Incredibly cynical, but brilliant nonetheless.

 

[deleted103644]

I wonder this too. I know of several doctors that went Caribbean and they only have good things to say about it. Ive had a couple push me to go carribean. I wouldn't want to, but apparently a lot of people get through it fine.

The issue with the Caribbean schools is that there is little to no barrier to get in, but a similar barrier to finish as to get into a normal medical school.

Most medical schools in the US have the barrier before entry, and make it nearly impossible to fail out.

So people who have no business going to medical school pay for 2-3 years of tuition in the Caribbean and washout, but they subsidize those who do well enough to be allowed to continue.

Is it ideal? Far from it. But people who get through it will obviously recommend it and those who fail out will complain here.

And a lot of that extra money SGU has goes towards “reimbursing” for clinical rotations in the US, so those who get past the hurdle probably have better rotation options than lower tier DO schools. SGU was even displacing medical students from places like Columbia and NYU at certain rotation locations in NYC.

 

[863168]

While the rest of the world may have distanced itself from Kevin Spacey, he's still good enough for the Caribbean.

 

[libertyyne]

While the rest of the world may have distanced itself from Kevin Spacey, he's still good enough for the Caribbean.

lol. This is the fumiest thing i have read on SDN in a while.

 

[NicMouse64]

It's funny how they are conceding that the quality is much better at US MD schools by doing this. Despite the fact that their pamphlets say pretty much the opposite. They are admitting they are inferior, and any sane or smart person who applied should see how this program says exactly that. Unfortunately many will still apply thinking it's "too good to be true".

 

[863168]

It's funny how they are conceding that the quality is much better than US MD schools by doing this. Despite the fact that their pamphlets say pretty much the opposite. They are admitting they are inferior, and any sane or smart person who applied should see how this program says exactly that. Unfortunately many will still apply thinking it's "too good to be true".

Just want to comment on this. If you have met a recruiter, they actually sniff out what view point you endorse on the Caribbean and then work that into their advantage. If you think that it's not as competitive, they will use that as a reason to coerce you into how there are less barriers and you can get started today (absolutely not true). If you think that you are okay with being a physician, they will use that as a reason to show you manufactured residency placement data and convince you that there are no issues with getting a primary care placement as they give you all the tools needed in order to succeed (absolutely not true).

A lot of my friends who have gone are exactly like @LM75 for the first six months of the program. We all know how quickly that tone changes after they finish Step 1 and realize they are severely marginalized for residency placements. The ones who still believe they made the right choice M3 and M4 are friends who believe that they have gamed the system by knowing hospital administrators, CEOs, or CFOs who are going to open the back door for them when it comes to match. They think they have made insider connections to give them a shot that no one else has and their 4 years are riding on this crutch.

 

[LM75]

Just want to comment on this. If you have met a recruiter, they actually sniff out what view point you endorse on the Caribbean and then work that into their advantage. If you think that it's not as competitive, they will use that as a reason to coerce you into how there are less barriers and you can get started today (absolutely not true). If you think that you are okay with being a physician, they will use that as a reason to show you manufactured residency placement data and convince you that there are no issues with getting a primary care placement as they give you all the tools needed in order to succeed (absolutely not true).

A lot of my friends who have gone are exactly like @LM75 for the first six months of the program. We all know how quickly that tone changes after they finish Step 1 and realize they are severely marginalized for residency placements. The ones who still believe they made the right choice M3 and M4 are friends who believe that they have gamed the system by knowing hospital administrators, CEOs, or CFOs who are going to open the back door for them when it comes to match. They think they have made insider connections to give them a shot that no one else has and their 4 years are riding on this crutch.

(yawn)

 

[Goro]

Just want to comment on this. If you have met a recruiter, they actually sniff out what view point you endorse on the Caribbean and then work that into their advantage. If you think that it's not as competitive, they will use that as a reason to coerce you into how there are less barriers and you can get started today (absolutely not true). If you think that you are okay with being a physician, they will use that as a reason to show you manufactured residency placement data and convince you that there are no issues with getting a primary care placement as they give you all the tools needed in order to succeed (absolutely not true).

A lot of my friends who have gone are exactly like @LM75 for the first six months of the program. We all know how quickly that tone changes after they finish Step 1 and realize they are severely marginalized for residency placements. The ones who still believe they made the right choice M3 and M4 are friends who believe that they have gamed the system by knowing hospital administrators, CEOs, or CFOs who are going to open the back door for them when it comes to match. They think they have made insider connections to give them a shot that no one else has and their 4 years are riding on this crutch.

Yep they all think they're going to score 260 on Step 1, despite having less than mediocre undergraduate performances.

 

[NicMouse64]

Just want to comment on this. If you have met a recruiter, they actually sniff out what view point you endorse on the Caribbean and then work that into their advantage. If you think that it's not as competitive, they will use that as a reason to coerce you into how there are less barriers and you can get started today (absolutely not true). If you think that you are okay with being a physician, they will use that as a reason to show you manufactured residency placement data and convince you that there are no issues with getting a primary care placement as they give you all the tools needed in order to succeed (absolutely not true).

A lot of my friends who have gone are exactly like @LM75 for the first six months of the program. We all know how quickly that tone changes after they finish Step 1 and realize they are severely marginalized for residency placements. The ones who still believe they made the right choice M3 and M4 are friends who believe that they have gamed the system by knowing hospital administrators, CEOs, or CFOs who are going to open the back door for them when it comes to match. They think they have made insider connections to give them a shot that no one else has and their 4 years are riding on this crutch.

I'm fortunate enough to never have had to meet with the recruiter. I only see what comes up on my SDN and fb ads lol. Had dad's friends who are doctors try to tell me how it was a better move to go to Carib than a US MD (WTF???) school. W/o SDN I would've taken that advice seriously. Now happily at a US MD school where I feel like i'm thrivin .

 

[LM75]

Yep they all think they're going to score 260 on Step 1, despite having less than mediocre undergraduate performances.

Fear mongering is what your game is.

 

[libertyyne]

Fear mongering is what your game is.

Is delusion yours? This only counts the people that graduated, not those that got culled out the first 2 years.

 

[Goro]

V

Is delusion yours? This only counts the people that graduated, not those that got culled out the first 2 years.
View attachment 242451

And these stats don't tell you who got a categorical position, or a temporary dead end preliminary.

 

[Stagg737]

If you're a borderline candidate, just skip the SGU option unless SGU becomes your only option.

If someone was above a borderline candidate, aka a legitimate candidate, they could get accepted in the US and not deal with the set-backs of Caribbean schools. The only people going to the Carib for med school are FMGs, borderline/bad candidates, people with major red flags that prevent a US admission, and masochists.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I'm fortunate enough to never have had to meet with the recruiter. I only see what comes up on my SDN and fb ads lol. Had dad's friends who are doctors try to tell me how it was a better move to go to Carib than a US MD (WTF???) school. W/o SDN I would've taken that advice seriously. Now happily at a US MD school where I feel like i'm thrivin .

Same. There have been many doctors to me rave about the Caribbean. I trust SDN but it makes me wonder why they said that. And many have a lot against SDN. I don’t understand the hatred for the whole community. Certain members sure, but I have found a LOT of good advice here, and for every person I get whining at me, i have two PMing me. And to those few members who PMed me when I was in the Gulag saying you looked forward to my posts upon getting out, thanks.

(General Surgical resident 2yr)


And the ones I know that went Carribean- one is the primary pediatrician at our hospital, one is critical care, and the other is infectious disease.

 

[LM75]

If someone was above a borderline candidate, aka a legitimate candidate, they could get accepted in the US and not deal with the set-backs of Caribbean schools. The only people going to the Carib for med school are FMGs, borderline/bad candidates, people with major red flags that prevent a US admission, and masochists.

Why are you so concerned about "these people?" Are you trying to tell them what to do? Why would they want to listen to some random person on SDN? Ask yourself that first.

 

[LM75]

Is delusion yours? This only counts the people that graduated, not those that got culled out the first 2 years.
View attachment 242451

Love the charts but what about those who are practicing? I think that's more important.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Love the charts but what about those who are practicing? I think that's more important.

Not for potential med students it’s not. Residency placement is the barrier to full practice rights; who cares about Caribbean grads who made it through the grinder (most in an era when IMG was not as dangerous a route as it is now) when those are just a bunch of n=1 stories that should have no real bearing on a pre-med’s decision making?

 

[RNtoMD87]

Like...the United States? Nobody is denying that doctors from Caribbean schools are "real doctors," or even that they're good doctors. Heck, I bet the doctors who do make it through Carib schools and actually match have higher grades/board scores than American grads on average because they have to be that much better just to prove themselves. But there's no denying that it's a tough place to be, which you've acknowledged. The chances of making it to residency at all are much, much lower than US MD and DO schools.

I'm applying FM in the Midwest and interviewing at a lot of the programs in the area with a stronger reputation. I've seen 2-3 Caribbean grads total in 10 interviews. Look at the FM residency application spreadsheet for this year. Just from a glance, on average US MD students (even those with soft stats) applied to 20-30 programs and have 15+ interview offers. DO students have a little lower yield but still 10+ interviews with 40+ apps. Carib students have applied to 50+ programs and have <5 interviews, even with great scores and no red flags. And this is across all regions where people are applying, in the least competitive specialties in one of the least competitive regions. Look at the thread in the FM forum for IMG applicants - they're struggling, even with better stats than I have. The number of US grads applying to FM has been increasing, and the trend I've seen on residency websites is that they're taking less and less IMGs - one program I looked at had >50% of their current PGY-3s from Caribbean schools, and not a single one among their interns. This is all obviously anecdotal, but it does seem that things are getting tougher for IMGs.

Nobody is saying that Carib residents and attendings aren't real doctors. We're just saying that it's a lot harder for someone who goes to the Caribbean to get to the point that they ARE a doctor.


How long ago did they graduate? A couple decades ago Carib was a great option. Not so much these days as the number of US grads has steadily increased but the number of residency slots has not.

Not exactly sure. Talked to the pediatrician when she was my patient when I was a nursing student, and she was mid 30s and that was 4 years ago. And she told me medicine wasn’t her first path, so I’m not sure. Maybe matriculated 12 years ago at best.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Same. There have been many doctors to me rave about the Caribbean. I trust SDN but it makes me wonder why they said that. And many have a lot against SDN. I don’t understand the hatred for the whole community. Certain members sure, but I have found a LOT of good advice here, and for every person I get whining at me, i have two PMing me. And to those few members who PMed me when I was in the Gulag saying you looked forward to my posts upon getting out, thanks.
View attachment 242453
(General Surgical resident 2yr)


And the ones I know that went Carribean- one is the primary pediatrician at our hospital, one is critical care, and the other is infectious disease.

I worked in the OR with ~3 surgeons who went to the Carib. They had decent things to say about it, but the thing is they were attendings then, which meant had gone to the Carib many years earlier. Things were much different, and once they’re out they don’t always keep up on how things change. They’re telling you those things based on old anecdotal info. The three docs I worked with said as much too, which isn’t what prompted me to do more research on it. That was ten years ago, and it was a bad option then. No way in hell I would even consider going now.

 

[Med Ed]

I worked in the OR with ~3 surgeons who went to the Carib. They had decent things to say about it, but the thing is they were attendings then, which meant had gone to the Carib many years earlier. Things were much different, and once they’re out they don’t always keep up on how things change. They’re telling you those things based on old anecdotal info. The three docs I worked with said as much too, which isn’t what prompted me to do more research on it. That was ten years ago, and it was a bad option then. No way in hell I would even consider going now.

Adding to this, people often develop post hoc rationalizations for their decisions.

 

[LM75]

Not for potential med students it’s not. Residency placement is the barrier to full practice rights; who cares about Caribbean grads who made it through the grinder (most in an era when IMG was not as dangerous a route as it is now) when those are just a bunch of n=1 stories that should have no real bearing on a pre-med’s decision making?

You win the award for dumbest post on the pre-allo forum!

Who cares you ask? Anybody who wants to go to that school and become a doctor!

 

[LM75]

Like...the United States? Nobody is denying that doctors from Caribbean schools are "real doctors," or even that they're good doctors. Heck, I bet the doctors who do make it through Carib schools and actually match have higher grades/board scores than American grads on average because they have to be that much better just to prove themselves. But there's no denying that it's a tough place to be, which you've acknowledged. The chances of making it to residency at all are much, much lower than US MD and DO schools.

I'm applying FM in the Midwest...

Thank you for acknowledging all of those points.

You however are another one of those cases here on SDN who want to talk big on a subject that you admittedly know nothing about. The "Midwest" is not an IMG-friendly area hence why you are not seeing many Caribbean students there. These schools give you a lot of information as to where to apply for residencies and those residencies are mostly East Coast programs. If you go to certain New York programs, ALL of their spots are taken by IMG's. So people from that part of the country would be better to comment on Caribbean graduates compared to someone like yourself who is admitting you are not from an IMG-friendly part of this country.

 

[LM75]

I worked in the OR with ~3 surgeons who went to the Carib. They had decent things to say about it, but the thing is they were attendings then, which meant had gone to the Carib many years earlier. Things were much different, and once they’re out they don’t always keep up on how things change. They’re telling you those things based on old anecdotal info. The three docs I worked with said as much too, which isn’t what prompted me to do more research on it. That was ten years ago, and it was a bad option then. No way in hell I would even consider going now.

This is all hearsay man. You have no facts to back up what you are saying. Let me ask you this, did those "3 surgeons" really even exist?

 

[LM75]

Adding to this, people often develop post hoc rationalizations for their decisions.

You make it sound like going to the Caribbean to become an MD (which on a list of hard things to do is not even at the top) is a sin.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is all hearsay man. You have no facts to back up what you are saying. Let me ask you this, did those "3 surgeons" really even exist?

So your response is the equivalent of saying the three surgeons are the “Canadian girlfriend”?

 

[LM75]

So your response is the equivalent of saying the three surgeons are the “Canadian girlfriend”?

Is that what you were trying to say about successful Caribbean students?

 

[libertyyne]

.

 

[deleted480308]

Is that what you were trying to say about successful Caribbean students?

If almost half of canadian girlfriends were fake, then yes

 

[LM75]

If almost half of canadian girlfriends were fake, then yes

Not you again lol.

 

[LM75]

There are plenty of programs in the Midwest full of IMGs, and as I said, plenty that used to be full of IMGs but aren't anymore as more AMGs have been coming into the specialty. But those programs are known to be less desirable, even malignant, because they treat their residents like warm bodies to do scutwork instead of learners and professionals. And tend to have worse reputations and worse placement into fellowships as well. This is true in NYC as well - I have a few classmates applying IM in NYC and they avoided certain programs for these reasons. Those programs happen to be full of IMGs.

And again, check out the FM spreadsheet - there's a column in the applicant section for what region of the US you're applying to. The numbers I quoted are generally true regardless of region.

I get that this is a sensitive subject for you but I think it's important to look at it rationally instead of emotionally. Look at the numbers. They've been getting worse and worse every year, and more and more American med schools are opening up without an increase in residency slots. Being an IMG significantly limits your options for both specialty and programs. There's no denying it.

I think what you and others are failing to understand is that some student who goes into FM and gets the MD...well they are doctors and not PA's or nurses or respiratory therapists or whatever else had they not made the choice to go to a program like SGU when a US program was not an option.

So lets look at it like this, if you guys are preaching to take less risk then that is commendable but in the end, the other person's life is not your life. If someone wants to become a doctor and all the US schools are saying no, then you better believe those students are going to SGU.

And lets all be honest, SGU produces doctors...and good doctors at that. It's a legit program unlike how you paint it to be.

 

[LM75]

I'm not saying SGU doesn't produce doctors or that it's not a "legit program." But they DO fail out about 50% of their students, and those who survive still have a reduced chance of getting into a residency program that is dwindling every year. They accept more first year students than they have third year clinical placements. So a certain percentage of their students have no chance of making it to even apply to residency. They provide less support for students when they fail than US schools do and have a low threshold for kicking you out or not letting you take Step 1. Why do you think they do that? Out of the goodness of their hearts?

Look, you're just focusing on that "50% don't make it" argument and you're not looking beyond it. I can't help you there. All I can say is work hard enough and you will be in the "other" 50% bracket and you won't have time to focus on "who didn't make it." If some student has a 50% chance of becoming a doctor versus not becoming a doctor then I can tell you that student will definitely be applying to SGU even if they tell you "the Caribbean sucks!"

Back to your argument, in life you will have to take a few risks here and there and some of those risks will pay off. Nothing gets handed to you in life, not even a clear cut path to the MD.

 

[Med Ed]

You make it sound like going to the Caribbean to become an MD (which on a list of hard things to do is not even at the top) is a sin.

Well, in many instances it is the outcome of sloth.

 

[Goro]

Just a little reminder:
The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

Quoting the wise gyngyn: The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

"Why didn't I Match?"

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is that what you were trying to say about successful Caribbean students?

If that’s what you got out of my post, then you need to work on your CARS skills.

 

[LM75]

Because the 50% argument is a pretty big deal. Because now you have tens of thousands of dollars of debt - or more - and no way to pay it off. Yeah, if you're lucky enough to be successful then you won't think about them...ever heard of survival bias? But you don't know if you're going to be in that 50% when you start. There are plenty of people who work their butts off and still fail. If you're hardworking and smart enough to get through a Carib school, you're probably hardworking and smart enough to work on your application for a few years and get into a US school with many more doors open to you.

That's another lie you keep telling some of these pre-meds. The truth is the US system is rigged itself. There are people who think they will EVENTUALLY get in but they will spend years improving undergrad-level work and never get into a US program. That translates into time and money wasted. Don't make it seem like EVERYBODY eventually gets into a US program with hard work. That's a bunch of BS. Trust me I've seen that side of it too.

Again, maybe stop focusing on those who don't make it and focus on those that do and more importantly ask yourself, if you doubt, why they succeeded at a school like SGU. That would make for a better argument.

 

[LM75]

I have plenty of classmates at my US MD school who did exactly this.


So does failing out of Caribbean school.


Replace "gets into a US program" with "succeeds in a Caribbean school" and that's exactly the argument I'm making.


Again: survival bias. You don't get to just ignore the half of people who fail out because it's inconvenient to you. That's an argument based on emotion, not facts. For pre-meds who are considering the Caribbean route, the attrition rate should absolutely be a major consideration. There's a 50/50 chance they end up in that bucket.

Those aren't strong arguments man. Just sayin'

 

[LM75]

If that’s what you got out of my post, then you need to work on your CARS skills.

Yeah, CARS skills.

 

[LM75]

Just a little reminder:
The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

Quoting the wise gyngyn: The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

"Why didn't I Match?"

@Goro how familiar are you with St. George's University and their graduates?

 

[Goro]

I have plenty of classmates at my US MD school who did exactly this.


So does failing out of Caribbean school.


Replace "gets into a US program" with "succeeds in a Caribbean school" and that's exactly the argument I'm making.


Again: survival bias. You don't get to just ignore the half of people who fail out because it's inconvenient to you. That's an argument based on emotion, not facts. For pre-meds who are considering the Caribbean route, the attrition rate should absolutely be a major consideration. There's a 50/50 chance they end up in that bucket.

Then add in the odds against matching.

 

[Lawpy]

I got confused why this thread went to two pages, but then I realized the posts mainly consisted of discussions between a troll and members wanting to disprove said troll's information.

 

[LM75]

I got confused why this thread went to two pages, but then I realized the posts mainly consisted of discussions between a troll and members wanting to disprove said troll's information.

Yeah man, everybody's a troll right.