SGU's "Pay It Forward"...?

[LM75]

Then add in the odds against matching.

@Goro You claim to be in admissions right. So how familiar are you with students from St. George's?

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[WedgeDawg]

Hey everyone, let's keep our discourse professional and respectful please. Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Stagg737]

Why are you so concerned about "these people?" Are you trying to tell them what to do? Why would they want to listen to some random person on SDN? Ask yourself that first.

I'm trying to tell them, with data that's been well documented by ACGME and AAMC and even the websites of Carib schools themselves, that if they're good enough to be a "sure thing" to get through the increased obstacles of the Carib then they're good enough to get into a USMD or DO schools. Especially since they'll encounter far fewer obstacles and have an administration that will do whatever they can to help you make it through and match instead of dismissing you if you fail a class or two.

Not exactly sure. Talked to the pediatrician when she was my patient when I was a nursing student, and she was mid 30s and that was 4 years ago. And she told me medicine wasn’t her first path, so I’m not sure. Maybe matriculated 12 years ago at best.

Another N=1, but one of my attendings on my EM rotation was from Ross and was actually part of the administration there after residency for a year or two. He said that 20 years ago he would have recommended the better Carib schools to most people, especially those who couldn't get into school in the US. He said with the way things have gone (both in terms of the predatory financial practice and worsening match situation) he feels unethical telling kids to go tot he Carib and actually got in a huge fight with another one of my attendings whose daughter was about to start at his alma mater Ross. It got pretty vicious. Funniest part was when he told the other attending it was a shame she couldn't get a tax break for donating to a charity since she was just throwing her money away (as she was paying for her daughter's education). Just went downhill from there and was probably the most aggressive encounter between two physicians I've ever seen.

These schools give you a lot of information as to where to apply for residencies and those residencies are mostly East Coast programs. If you go to certain New York programs, ALL of their spots are taken by IMG's.

Are you so naive that you really don't understand why that is? I'll give you a hint: $$$$$$$$

This is all hearsay man. You have no facts to back up what you are saying. Let me ask you this, did those "3 surgeons" really even exist?

Do you even exist?

 

[Stagg737]

Hey everyone, let's keep our discourse professional and respectful please. Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

Sorry, didn't see this when I hit submit. I'll refrain from further responses, as I feel like I made my points.

 

[LM75]

I'm trying to tell them, with data that's been well documented by ACGME and AAMC and even the websites of Carib schools themselves, that if they're good enough to be a "sure thing" to get through the increased obstacles of the Carib then they're good enough to get into a USMD or DO schools. Especially since they'll encounter far fewer obstacles and have an administration that will do whatever they can to help you make it through and match instead of dismissing you if you fail a class or two.



Another N=1, but one of my attendings on my EM rotation was from Ross and was actually part of the administration there after residency for a year or two. He said that 20 years ago he would have recommended the better Carib schools to most people, especially those who couldn't get into school in the US. He said with the way things have gone (both in terms of the predatory financial practice and worsening match situation) he feels unethical telling kids to go tot he Carib and actually got in a huge fight with another one of my attendings whose daughter was about to start at his alma mater Ross. It got pretty vicious. Funniest part was when he told the other attending it was a shame she couldn't get a tax break for donating to a charity since she was just throwing her money away (as she was paying for her daughter's education). Just went downhill from there and was probably the most aggressive encounter between two physicians I've ever seen.



Are you so naive that you really don't understand why that is? I'll give you a hint: $$$$$$$$



Do you even exist?

Bunch of rambling...no substance. You don't even make sense. Are you sure you're a resident or are you the troll?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Sorry, didn't see this when I hit submit. I'll refrain from further responses, as I feel like I made my points.

Don't stop responding, just keep it civil!

 

[Goro]

I love the smell of cognitive dissonance in the morning!

 

[LM75]

I love the smell of cognitive dissonance in the morning!

I figured you had no contact with SGU students. Do you even know where SGU is located?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I figured you had no contact with SGU students. Do you even know where SGU is located?

If you want people to think you aren’t a troll, your responses need to have some substance.

 

[LM75]

If you want people to think you aren’t a troll, your responses need to have some substance.

I've heard enough from you. You're like a paid SDN troll. You comment on everything and you never make sense.

 

[puahate]

Just go to USMD.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

SGU was even displacing medical students from places like Columbia and NYU at certain rotation locations in NYC.

That's categorically false.

 

[Med Ed]

I figured you had no contact with SGU students. Do you even know where SGU is located?

Grenadine.

 

[Stagg737]

Bunch of rambling...no substance. You don't even make sense. Are you sure you're a resident or are you the troll?

And where is the substance in your posts? All you've done is say "SGU produces doctors" (no duh) and then call everyone else trolls. If all of us don't know what we're talking about then prove it with actual data. Put up or shut up.

 

[Goro]

And where is the substance in your posts? All you've done is say "SGU produces doctors" (no duh) and then call everyone else trolls. If all of us don't know what we're talking about then prove it with actual data. Put up or shut up.

Not gloating, but kudos to the Mods for judicious application of the Banhammer!

 

[Stagg737]

Grenadine.

Ah yes, the most delicious of the Caribbean Islands.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I've heard enough from you. You're like a paid SDN troll. You comment on everything and you never make sense.

Can't say I'm surprised by either this post or by the banning lol.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

You win the award for dumbest post on the pre-allo forum!

Who cares you ask? Anybody who wants to go to that school and become a doctor!

As LM75 has been given the boot, I feel a little bad replying, but I feel I need to respond to this for any others reading this thread considering Caribbean. Match results are what matter for medical students; because, residency is the last hurdle you need to get through to be a practicing physician. To make myself completely clear: it does not matter what specialties have attendings (or how successful they are) from any given med school, US or international; that should only matter if those schools are continuing to match grads into those specialties. If they’re not continuing to match well, then that school is no longer a good investment. LM75, if you’re still reading this, do yourself a favor, pay attention when they’re teaching you about the difference between anecdotal evidence and studies with large cohorts; because, honestly, it’s obvious that you really don’t know what you don’t know.

May the Dunning-Kruger be with you all.

 

[deleted103644]

That's categorically false.

New York’s Medical Schools Say They Feel Squeeze in Finding Clinical Clerkships

“If offshore schools go on buying more clerkships…we won’t have enough slots for our own New York students,” said Lee Goldman, chief executive of Columbia University Medical Center.

I don’t know details of exactly which rotations were lost by which schools, but yes, even Columbia was worried about this.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

New York’s Medical Schools Say They Feel Squeeze in Finding Clinical Clerkships
I don’t know details of exactly which rotations were lost by which schools, but yes, even Columbia was worried about this.

You took a generalized, hypothetical comment by the dean and (falsely) turned it into an actual thing that happened. You were wrong. Move on.

 

[deleted103644]

You took a generalized, hypothetical comment by the dean and (falsely) turned it into an actual thing that happened. You were wrong. Move on.

No, I wasn’t wrong. This is an actual thing that happened.

The main hospitals for the various schools obviously did not sell out to SGU, but HHC hospitals did. As well as other NY hospitals to SGU and other Caribbean schools.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

No, I wasn’t wrong. This is an actual thing that happened.

The main hospitals for the various schools obviously did not sell out to SGU, but HHC hospitals did. As well as other NY hospitals to SGU and other Caribbean schools.

Uh you stated that Columbia lost spots to SGU. That never happened. And then to back up your assertion of an event that never actually happened, you quoted a random generalized concern by the dean. All of this happened on like.. here, you don't even need to click to a different page.

It's OK to be wrong. It's less OK to dig your heels in about it. Move along.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@johnnydrama

I rotated at two of the locations that could conceivably have students displaced by Caribbean students (there are plenty of FMG residents, one location almost exclusively so). There were no Caribbean med students at any of these locations. I rotated with a PA student at one of them, but we have not had problems with our spots being taken up by any entity. I think the statement by the Dean was more of a political one and less of a practical one.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

if you get accepted to a US school within the year and matriculate August of that year, SGU will refund your tuition.

Just curious. If the student took out a loan for that semester, tuition, room, board, books, travel, then what are they refunding? Tuition only? And the money would go where? To part of the loan, with the rest of the loan still outstanding?

And would students be on the hook for a 12 month lease for housing?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Actually that is incorrect. The Grenadines refer to an entire island chain that lies between St. Vincent and Grenada, neither of which are considered geologically part of the Grenadines. Politically, the Grenadines are divided between St. Vincent and Grenada. SGU is located on Grenada

Ah, the blackcurrant of the islands.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Here’s a question- if carribean is just considered international, aren’t there other schools in other countries that are just as good as going carribean? Not that any are a good idea.

 

[Kgizzle]

Don't you have to click a button when applying that says that you've never been to med school when applying?

 

[Osteosaur]

Don't you have to click a button when applying that says that you've never been to med school when applying?

At FIRST my thinking was: "well since you're not in attendance at the time of application it's probably okay."

But this is the carrib. Better for them if this traps you. Sneaky

 

[Med Ed]

Actually that is incorrect. The Grenadines refer to an entire island chain that lies between St. Vincent and Grenada, neither of which are considered geologically part of the Grenadines. Politically, the Grenadines are divided between St. Vincent and Grenada. SGU is located on Grenada

Cheers to that.

 

[libertyyne]

Here’s a question- if carribean is just considered international, aren’t there other schools in other countries that are just as good as going carribean? Not that any are a good idea.

There are many schools internationally that are better compared to carribean. English language instruction some technical requirements for step registration and schools that have advising that can help place you in America, and takes federal loans, narrows the list down. There are some schools I. Europe that offer these things and the benefit is at least you can practice in the EU if things go sour for step and matching etc. The advice still holds that if you want to practice in the US go to school in the US. Even if you go to a DO school odds of matching as a percent of people who matriculate are at least 2-4x higher compared to even the best carribean schools

 

[863168]

I have a close friend who is pursuing medicine as a second career. Has a 3.8 sGPA from a formal science post-bac program, however he is doing extensive prep for the MCAT and it is an exhausting toil for him on an emotional, cognitive, and physical level. Recruiters from SGU have been whispering in his ear telling him that if he decides to just take the MCAT, he will be one of their strongest applicants. They know that he's tired of worrying about months of MCAT prep and are banking on him caving in and just rushing into the exam in less than optimal conditions and being forced into choosing the Caribbean as his best possible option.

I've been on call with him many times telling him that he's earned the right to crush the MCAT and apply to MD/DO schools and not to turn to the Caribbean as a last option. The appeal is there to "get it done with" and to look at the immediate benefits rather than the long-term implications. However, there is nothing worse than making a four year investment with several years worth of debt (at least), only to know that you will be marginalized every step of the way because you got an instant piece of gratification that has long worn off by the time you start getting into the brunt of your coursework. Healthcare is one of the worst fields to seek an occupational career in if you need short term admission and acceptance. There are several other fields that will give you a pat on the back for putting in far less than what you will in medicine.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Don’t go to the Carib. under any circumstances whatsoever.

Well actually, the Caribbean's a really nice place to vacation. Especially this time of year. It starts getting a little chilly after thanksgiving.

 

[Goro]

I have a close friend who is pursuing medicine as a second career. Has a 3.8 sGPA from a formal science post-bac program, however he is doing extensive prep for the MCAT and it is an exhausting toil for him on an emotional, cognitive, and physical level. Recruiters from SGU have been whispering in his ear telling him that if he decides to just take the MCAT, he will be one of their strongest applicants. They know that he's tired of worrying about months of MCAT prep and are banking on him caving in and just rushing into the exam in less than optimal conditions and being forced into choosing the Caribbean as his best possible option.

 

[ortnakas]

I’ve worked with residents and attendings who went to the Caribbean, and the majority were great doctors-- but they're the ones who made it through and then matched. As their classes get bigger, the chances of being one of the lucky ones get smaller, and in this case "lucky" involves both luck and working really, really, really hard. I didn't like my odds as a pre-med, and I'd like them even less if I was a pre-med now.

I recently found out about St.George's "Pay It Foward" campaign where you basically start classes at SGU in Jaunuary and if you get accepted to a US school within the year and matriculate August of that year, SGU will refund your tuition. Thoughts? It just seemed a little too good to be true...

What's the upside of this, exactly? If you get accepted within the year, you'll have to start over and re-do that chunk of first year, anyway. And maybe they'll refund the tuition that turned out to be a waste anyway, but they won't refund the costs of moving to the Caribbean and back and (if you're a gainfully employed non-trad) the 6-8 months of lost income. I don't get it.

Edited: grammar