shadowing but no volunteering experience

[manthan1490]

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Hey,

I have shadowed a family physician for about half a year (flexible schedule - around 40-50 hours), however I dont have any volunteer experience at a hospital. Besides, this I have been a Resarch Assistant in the psychology department at my college, and also hold a part time paid job in the Computing services department. I will also be working on my senior thesis in fall 2011. Hence, I was wondering would this look bad on my application? I just have shadowing, but no volunteering hours, hence only a limited amount of hospital experience. I plan to apply for the year of 2012. My gpa is around a 3.65 and I will be taking my mcats soon.

THanks

 

[Whatyousay]

So you have no clinical volunteering experience. Do you have any volunteering experience at all (for anything)?

 

[manthan1490]

Hey,

So basically as part of shadowing i am gonna put down that I did encounter a lot of patient contact, which I did cause I was supposed to fill out a questionaire regarding the patient where the patient woudl answer questions and stuff before seeing the actual physician.
As far as volunteering are concerned, I volunteered at my college open house but thats just for a day, so I dont know if that would make difference.
Also in high school senior year, I was part of a club which catered to community service, Iheld a leadership possition in this club and we did a lot of fundraisers where we took this money and gave it to the childrens specialized hospital. But I dont know if this would count as volunteering as well, since in this case it was done in senior yuear of high school.

Thanks

 

[flatearth22]

Hey,

So basically as part of shadowing i am gonna put down that I did encounter a lot of patient contact, which I did cause I was supposed to fill out a questionaire regarding the patient where the patient woudl answer questions and stuff before seeing the actual physician.
As far as volunteering are concerned, I volunteered at my college open house but thats just for a day, so I dont know if that would make difference.
Also in high school senior year, I was part of a club which catered to community service, Iheld a leadership possition in this club and we did a lot of fundraisers where we took this money and gave it to the childrens specialized hospital. But I dont know if this would count as volunteering as well, since in this case it was done in senior yuear of high school.

Thanks

Yeah that wouldn't count since it's HS and you didn't continue in college.

With no volunteering how do adcoms know that you are a caring individual who provides service to others? That's a big part of what being a doctor is about.

 

[manthan1490]

so basically shadowing a doctor and helping him with patients and stuff wouldnt count towards anything? also its potinless to include the 1 day volunteering thing right that i did for open house ?

 

[DDX2k]

Yeah that wouldn't count since it's HS and you didn't continue in college.

With no volunteering how do adcoms know that you are a caring individual who provides service to others? That's a big part of what being a doctor is about.

Eh, you can show that in other ways. For example, I have no real clinical volunteering (and all of my other volunteering was in HS), but I've been a part of several peer-leadership groups and projects involving the community throughout my years as an undergrad. Volunteering is just one way to do it, IMO. I think people get so wrapped up in the 'checklist' that they forget WHY each checklist item is there. If you can show that you are a caring individual who likes providing service to others outside of volunteering, it's probably not gonna matter too much if you've never seen the inside of a soup kitchen..

 

[Astarael]

so basically shadowing a doctor and helping him with patients and stuff wouldnt count towards anything? also its potinless to include the 1 day volunteering thing right that i did for open house ?

Shadowing a doctor is basically something you do to prove to yourself that you want to be a doctor, and is more of a "check that you did it" kind of activity as far as the application goes. The one day volunteer thing is virtually pointless.

Consider that you are going to be competing against people who have hundreds of hours of volunteer service over the course of their college career. You might be able to swing it, if you have other strengths in your application, but it will definitely put you at a disadvantage.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Many med schools stress that they want students who are interested in community service.

You don't need volunteering per se, but you will be a big disadvantage if you have done nothing that shows you can about your community and want to give back to it. Without it, you are really lacking an important personal characteristic. Shadowing is just marking a checkbox... but the desire to volunteer and give back, is pretty important IMO.

Have you been in any clubs that did volunteering? or educated the public/scchool community regarding an issue? Or fundraised within a club? There's many ways to show you have given back and cared about people without actually volunteering... so just think about what activities you have participated in.

 

[manthan1490]

hey I have volunteered at my temple where I helped bring food and stuff to old people sometimes read newspapers to them too. Does that count as volunteering? Also, this would not be considered volunteering at a hospital so would it be fine?

 

[Astarael]

hey I have volunteered at my temple where I helped bring food and stuff to old people sometimes read newspapers to them too. Does that count as volunteering? Also, this would not be considered volunteering at a hospital so would it be fine?

Why are you trying so hard to avoid doing work? You can either take our advice and get into a hospital to do some volunteering over the next year, or you can ignore us and be right back here in two years as a reapplicant.

Applying to medical school is not a process where you should be picking and choosing what you want to do. If you're serious about it, you need to give yourself every possible advantage.

Volunteering at your temple is a great start, but many places like to see some sort of clinical volunteering.

 

[manthan1490]

its not that I dont wanna do work. I am probably going to start volutneering in august (becuase thats when the nearest hospital accepts applications) but I am scared that its too late to apply in like september but at that time I would atleast have the fact that I have volunteered at ahospital on paper.

 

[Astarael]

its not that I dont wanna do work. I am probably going to start volutneering in august (becuase thats when the nearest hospital accepts applications) but I am scared that its too late to apply in like september but at that time I would atleast have the fact that I have volunteered at ahospital on paper.

Submitting your primary application in September is pretty late. My recommendation would be to seriously consider taking a year off to get enough volunteer work or other clinical experience under your belt to make you a competitive applicant.

Don't take my word alone on that, but you're going to have a really tough application cycle if you apply this year, considering your application would be late and you have little clinical volunteering.

Your next step on SDN should probably be to make a thread in the "What are my chances?" forum. Put everything in there-your gpa, activities completed so far, what you've been scoring on practice MCATs, etc.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I disgaree with the above. You have done volunteering with your temple (hopefully about 50 hours) and you have gotten clinical exposure. There is no need to do clinical volunteering -- if you are planning on applying this summer. What you might want to consider doing is start volunteering in a hospital this fall to send updated to medical schools regarding your new volunteering experience.

There's honestly no reason to stall a good application, just because you are lacking a certain type of volunteering.

edit: I would recommend trying to find another hospital OR A NURSING HOME though were you could volunteer for a few hours starting ASAP. My experience volunteering at hospitals have been dud. Nursing homes are were it is at.

 

[Astarael]

I disgaree with the above. You have done volunteering with your temple (hopefully about 50 hours) and you have gotten clinical exposure. There is no need to do clinical volunteering -- if you are planning on applying this summer. What you might want to consider doing is start volunteering in a hospital this fall to send updated to medical schools regarding your new volunteering experience.

There's honestly no reason to stall a good application, just because you are lacking a certain type of volunteering.

edit: I would recommend trying to find another hospital OR A NURSING HOME though were you could volunteer for a few hours starting ASAP. My experience volunteering at hospitals have been dud. Nursing homes are were it is at.

If the OP truly does have some sort of significant volunteer experience through his/her temple, then I agree with what you've said. Taken in the context of this entire thread, however, my impression is that the OP will not be presenting a competitive application. He/she came in here and started a thread entitled "No Volunteer Experience" and then all of a sudden came up with the fact that he/she had been volunteering through temple. This leads me to believe that this volunteer experience was not extensive or meaningful (especially when it was mentioned after volunteering at an open house for a day).

If I'm incorrect in my assumption that the volunteering at OP's temple is not extensive, then I apologize. However, you need to be realistic about the quality of the activities you've done, otherwise, you're looking at wasting a lot of money and a lot of time fixing your application later.

One last thing: although there's no strict requirement for number of volunteer hours, I'd be wary of submitting an application that only has 50. You're going up against people that have volunteered a couple hours a week or every other week for years. That's your competition, and you need to decide if your application balances favorably or unfavorably.

 

[circulus vitios]

Why are you trying so hard to avoid doing work?

Is that a real question? Volunteering sucks unbelievably hard.

 

[tartrate]

I've actually seen plenty of people get accepted without volunteer work. Of course, these people have proven themselves in other ways.

Just take a look through MSAR. You will see that some schools have a huge percentage (as much as 30-50%) of accepted applicants with no volunteer work.

Over the years, I've realized that a lot of the "common" knowledge on SDN is misrepresented/skewed.

 

[PressPforPi]

Is that a real question? Volunteering sucks unbelievably hard.

I second this, but only if it's something that you don't enjoy doing. Most days, I would much rather teach my third grade class Geometry than help the residents at the nursing home play Bingo.

 

[sector9]

I've actually seen plenty of people get accepted without volunteer work. Of course, these people have proven themselves in other ways.

Just take a look through MSAR. You will see that some schools have a huge percentage (as much as 30-50%) of accepted applicants with no volunteer work.

Over the years, I've realized that a lot of the "common" knowledge on SDN is misrepresented/skewed.

I disagree somewhat with this post. The point on SDN is to make your application as broad as possible so that you will appeal to the widest variety of schools. So some schools like more shadowing, some more clinical volunteering, some non-clinical, some leadership, some research, etc. The problem is that if you have no clinical volunteering, then sure, you can find schools that have their percent down around 60 or so. That is a school that doesn't care too much about clinical volunteering. But that may only be 5 schools. Are you ok with only having a decent shot at 5 schools?

 

[235788]

I disagree somewhat with this post. The point on SDN is to make your application as broad as possible so that you will appeal to the widest variety of schools. So some schools like more shadowing, some more clinical volunteering, some non-clinical, some leadership, some research, etc. The problem is that if you have no clinical volunteering, then sure, you can find schools that have their percent down around 60 or so. That is a school that doesn't care too much about clinical volunteering. But that may only be 5 schools. Are you ok with only having a decent shot at 5 schools?

I agree with sector 9. Never cut anything out; applicants are a dime a dozen and if you are identical to other applicants you may not make the cut.

 

[manthan1490]

thanks for all the responses. I agree that having clinical volunteering experience is a definite PLUS especially in a competitive field like this, whereas not having clinical volunteering may be really harmful especially if I wanna get into a good medical school. Hence my best mode of action right now would be to find a volunteering position asap so I can atleast mention in my applications that I have started volunteering and the hours I have completed by the time I start the application. Atleast that should show the adcom that he has started volunteering and has that clinical volunteering experience. THanks for all the help though

 

[pfaction]

I find it hard to really ever disagree with sector9.

 

[tartrate]

I disagree somewhat with this post. The point on SDN is to make your application as broad as possible so that you will appeal to the widest variety of schools. So some schools like more shadowing, some more clinical volunteering, some non-clinical, some leadership, some research, etc. The problem is that if you have no clinical volunteering, then sure, you can find schools that have their percent down around 60 or so. That is a school that doesn't care too much about clinical volunteering. But that may only be 5 schools. Are you ok with only having a decent shot at 5 schools?

Well, consider this. Besides the "need" for volunteering, the common knowledge on SDN is that you don't need to do research.

According to MSAR, this would be completely wrong. More people with acceptances have done research than they have volunteering.

So if your logic is that people should have volunteering, based on the average 70% of accepted applicants who have done it, then it would be downright misleading to say research is "optional," considering for most schools this value sits at 80-90%, far more than the % for volunteering.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

One last thing: although there's no strict requirement for number of volunteer hours, I'd be wary of submitting an application that only has 50. You're going up against people that have volunteered a couple hours a week or every other week for years. That's your competition, and you need to decide if your application balances favorably or unfavorably.

I only applied reporting only 2 volunteering experiences. One non-clinical and about 80 hours (volunteered about 6 months). The other was clinical and I had about 50 hours in about 6 months. While I did more before and after applying, those were really the only substantiated ones that we relevant to med school (use to volunteer at an animal shelter too -- not mentioned).

I've actually seen plenty of people get accepted without volunteer work. Of course, these people have proven themselves in other ways.

Just take a look through MSAR. You will see that some schools have a huge percentage (as much as 30-50%) of accepted applicants with no volunteer work.

+1. It's nice to have, and good for service-oriented schools, but there is other ways to give back to your community besides volunteering. My involvement in a social justice club I believe did more at times to improve my community than my volunteering.

 

[sector9]

Well, consider this. Besides the "need" for volunteering, the common knowledge on SDN is that you don't need to do research.

According to MSAR, this would be completely wrong. More people with acceptances have done research than they have volunteering.

So if your logic is that people should have volunteering, based on the average 70% of accepted applicants who have done it, then it would be downright misleading to say research is "optional," considering for most schools this value sits at 80-90%, far more than the % for volunteering.

I would encourage you to go back to the MSAR.

I just clicked on 20 random schools on the online version to check. 5 of them had research with a higher percentage than clinical volunteering. The other 15... clinical volunteering was higher.

Top 20 schools: Research is usually higher
The rest of the schools (aka most of the schools): Clinical volunteering is way higher, some schools by 20%

2009 Accepted students (any school) (shown on page 63 of 2011-2012 MSAR): 5% more had clinical community service than research. I'm sure someone with the most recent paper edition of the MSAR can tell us if the difference has changed any, but probably not.

Next point? (Your friends or people you know doesn't count. Data based claims please)

BTW, the 2009 number is >80%, not around 70% as you said

 

[sector9]

Well, consider this. Besides the "need" for volunteering, the common knowledge on SDN is that you don't need to do research.

According to MSAR, this would be completely wrong. More people with acceptances have done research than they have volunteering.

So if your logic is that people should have volunteering, based on the average 70% of accepted applicants who have done it, then it would be downright misleading to say research is "optional," considering for most schools this value sits at 80-90%, far more than the % for volunteering.

Perhaps the confusion is that you keep saying volunteering. Do you mean non-clinical volunteering? The order of importance (according to percentage of accepted students) is clinical volunteering is the most important, followed by research, with non-clinical volunteering in last.

You need to have SOME volunteering though. Having no clinical and no non-clinical volunteering is an app killer (maybe annihilator is a better word) IMHO

 

[tartrate]

2009 Accepted students (any school) (shown on page 63 of 2011-2012 MSAR): 5% more had clinical community service than research. I'm sure someone with the most recent paper edition of the MSAR can tell us if the difference has changed any, but probably not.

Okay, so 5%. Does that change my point about the way people under-emphasize research? I don't believe a difference of 5% is low enough to warrant saying volunteering is "necessary" and research is "not."

Also, my main point is not to quibble the exact numbers. I will refer to my first post: "Of course, these people have proven themselves in other ways."

 

[Astarael]

I had a big huge response typed up, and then lost it when my browser crashed. The fact of the matter here is that the MSAR breaks activities down into volunteering/community service, medically related work, and research. If you are missing one, you're hurting your chances. If you compensate for something that you don't have (say, medically related work) with something you do have (clinical volunteering), you're helping your chances.

It's on you if you want to try to get in with what you've got now.

 

[sector9]

Okay, so 5%. Does that change my point about the way people under-emphasize research? I don't believe a difference of 5% is low enough to warrant saying volunteering is "necessary" and research is "not."

Also, my main point is not to quibble the exact numbers. I will refer to my first post: "Of course, these people have proven themselves in other ways."

Now, any other ways you want to underhandedly insult me?

I'm all for emphasizing research.

But I still disagree with your point that volunteering is not necessary, since we don't have access to the number of people who applied with no volunteering (clinical or non-clinical).
An example: A school has 90% reporting research, 85% reporting clinical community service, and 60% reporting non-clinical community service. Can you say that research is more important that volunteering? No. I would be willing to bet that such a school would have more volunteering when you combine non-clinical and clinical into one percentage

I still think that volunteering as a whole is more important than research. And the numbers, BTW, are in agreement with my point. I wasn't trying to insult you, but it's annoying when people post stuff like "More people with acceptances have done research than they have volunteering." but don't back up what they're saying with facts

 

[tartrate]

I am not arguing that volunteering, clinical or otherwise, won't help your application. I am however saying it's not absolutely necessary, in the same sense that people say research is not absolutely necessary. It's not complicated.

 

[tartrate]

I wasn't trying to insult you, but it's annoying when people post stuff like "More people with acceptances have done research than they have volunteering." but don't back up what they're saying with facts

I guess it depends what the "facts" are. You get a certain picture by looking mostly at state-specific schools. It's a different picture though if you are looking at OOS-friendly/private institutions, which is the more practical path for a lot of people here.

 

[sector9]

I guess it depends what the "facts" are. You get a certain picture by looking mostly at state-specific schools. It's a different picture though if you are looking at OOS-friendly/private institutions, which is the more practical path for a lot of people here.

Well, to be fair, there was no qualification about state schools versus private in your other posts. So I thought we were talking about medical schools in general, which I still feel I am correct about. I don't care enough to try to look at a collection of state schools versus private to see if there's a difference.

It's all water under the bridge though because we don't have access to the stat we need: What percentage of accepted students had volunteering of any type

 

[tartrate]

I am not arguing that volunteering, clinical or otherwise, won't help your application. I am however saying it's not absolutely necessary, in the same sense that people say research is not absolutely necessary. It's not complicated.

I still feel I am correct

Seems this is all you want. So you can have it, since you are awfully fond of quibbling and my points are not getting through. I am not here to argue with premeds on the internet. 🙂