Should I get this LOR?

[lexington251]

Hi everyone,

I took a pre-req course last semester with an awesome professor. I went to all of his office hours, and he was always super helpful. Overall, a really nice person. Worked hard and ended up with an A.

Last week I went to his office and thanked him for being a great teacher and asked if he would be willing to write a strong LOR for me. Here's where I get confused.

He didn't say yes immediately. Instead he first gave me disclaimer: it was a big course (~230 people) and he teaches it every year. However, the professor knows my name, and we've had a couple discussions about things other than course material. I've talked to him about my passion for working with children and education in general, a field he also works in. He says because of our other interactions, he could vouch for these interests as well as me more personally than otherwise, and said if I wanted a LOR from him, he would need my CV and a personal statement.

My worry is that he wasn't 100% on board with writing a LOR for me. But he also only teaches this course, so I would like to think that this disclaimer would be standard for everyone who's asked him in the past. I'm torn because I really liked this professor and it would be one of my science LORs, but I know that one "meh" LOR could be fatal.

What should I do??

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[Scrizzy]

the professor knows my name, and we've had a couple discussions about things other than course material.

And I suppose you saved him from a burning building?

 

[lexington251]

And I suppose you saved him from a burning building?

Lol no, but in a large lecture class it helps!

 

[candbgirl]

Isn't there anyone else? Sounds like he would be regurgitating what's in your PS and on your resume. He might not have much experience writing LOEs because as he told you, he only teaches these huge classes.


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[Nomtastic]

How many times would you say you've spoken to him about things outside of academics?

I would say yes if you feel like he has a firm understanding of you and your interests. If you're unsure, then I would suggest considering other faculty.

 

[Scrizzy]

Here's my recommendation:
LOR (at least in my case) are submitted by the student. Have him write you up the LOR, but see if you have anyone else. If you get 3 other LOR that you feel are great, send them out instead of his. If he's the only one you got... Send it, but don't expect it to be a great LOR.

By any chance, did you have ever have numerous 1 on 1 conversation with him without any other students around? I go to office hours too and sometimes I find a boatload of other student there as well, which doesn't really allow him to get to know you.

 

[Scrizzy]

Isn't there anyone else? Sounds like he would be regurgitating what's in your PS and on your resume. He might not have much experience writing LOEs because as he told you, he only teaches these huge classes.


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This.
Sounds exactly what he will do. Which is fine if he makes it believable... But if he doesn't and just repeats everything on your PS, that's a HUGE red flag for med schools.

 

[lexington251]

Isn't there anyone else? Sounds like he would be regurgitating what's in your PS and on your resume. He might not have much experience writing LOEs because as he told you, he only teaches these huge classes.

I think he's had experience writing LORs: he seems used to people asking, hence the disclaimer. He said he would spend the first part talking about his experience with me, and the second part talking about how his impression of me matches with what I wrote about in my personal statement/experiences on CV. I can try asking another professor, but it's been almost a year since I've last talked to her.

How many times would you say you've spoken to him about things outside of academics?

By any chance, did you have ever have numerous 1 on 1 conversation with him without any other students around? I go to office hours too and sometimes I find a boatload of other student there as well, which doesn't really allow him to get to know you.

I've only been able to talk to him one on one about things outside of class a couple times, as he's always busy with meetings, and office hours usually has 4-5 other people. I think he has a strong understanding for my interests, and I think my PS would confirm his view on my interests.

Also, I wasn't intending on sending him my entire AMCAS PS. I was going to send him a personal statement pertaining to why I want to pursue medical school, with emphasis on working with children/teaching. I think my AMCAS PS will be more broad.

 

[lexington251]

Just to confirm, the typical number of LORs are 2 science, and 2 non-science? Would my PI count as science LOR, even though I never had her for a course?

 

[candbgirl]

Some schools want 3 & 1 . You need to check with the schools. It might be included in the MSAR info.


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[Scrizzy]

Just to confirm, the typical number of LORs are 2 science, and 2 non-science? Would my PI count as science LOR, even though I never had her for a course?

There's no strict number for LORs, see how many it would take for you to get a committee paper (I needed 3 for mine). 2 sciences and 2 non-science are nice, but what is important is that they give you strong LORs, and sound literate when med schools read them. As for your PI, no idea.

I've only been able to talk to him one on one about things outside of class a couple times, as he's always busy with meetings, and office hours usually has 4-5 other people. I think he has a strong understanding for my interests, and I think my PS would confirm his view on my interests.

Also, I wasn't intending on sending him my entire AMCAS PS. I was going to send him a personal statement pertaining to why I want to pursue medical school, with emphasis on working with children/teaching. I think my AMCAS PS will be more broad.

It sounds like he knows you, but from what you're telling me, I don't think he really likes you (or hate you for that matter). My previous recommendation still stands, hold onto the LOR if you can and see if you can get a committee paper. If this is the only one, send it and hope that he didn't set off any red flags, or maybe even discard it altogether if you're unsure. I doubt he will, but you never know.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

A big lecture doesn't mean any thing if you show enthusiasm and participate in lecture. Best indication is if said professor can immediately identify you. The point of science letters is to attest academic qualities and I don't mean an A. Anyone can see that on a transcript. Willingness to help peers. Answer questions they ask. Etc.

 

[liquidsodium]

When I asked my old phys professor for an LOR (>150 student class, 3 years prior, but a few memorable interactions), she suggested that we sit down and chat for awhile to catch up -- essentially a 60 minute interview that ended up stretching awhile longer. The next morning she told me she felt some 'writing mojo' about me and already submitted my letter -- one of my strongest ones, from what I could gather in interviews.

Basically, I don't think it's an awful sign that he wants more info about you prior to writing this letter.


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[cloudstrife2054]

When I asked my old phys professor for an LOR (>150 student class, 3 years prior, but a few memorable interactions), she suggested that we sit down and chat for awhile to catch up -- essentially a 60 minute interview that ended up stretching awhile longer. The next morning she told me she felt some 'writing mojo' about me and already submitted my letter -- one of my strongest ones, from what I could gather in interviews.

Basically, I don't think it's an awful sign that he wants more info about you prior to writing this letter.


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I downloaded a powerpoint that states the secrets to strong LORs in medical school is that the letters do not repeat anything on the application. In other words, a LOR is pointless if they don't know much about you and professors want your application so they do not overlap. Some even ask to contact other letter writers to ensure they do not overlap anything if they really like the student and/or have plenty to say about the student and do not want to write redundant information. This is very rare, however.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Hi everyone,

I took a pre-req course last semester with an awesome professor. I went to all of his office hours, and he was always super helpful. Overall, a really nice person. Worked hard and ended up with an A.

Last week I went to his office and thanked him for being a great teacher and asked if he would be willing to write a strong LOR for me. Here's where I get confused.

He didn't say yes immediately. Instead he first gave me disclaimer: it was a big course (~230 people) and he teaches it every year. However, the professor knows my name, and we've had a couple discussions about things other than course material. I've talked to him about my passion for working with children and education in general, a field he also works in. He says because of our other interactions, he could vouch for these interests as well as me more personally than otherwise, and said if I wanted a LOR from him, he would need my CV and a personal statement.

My worry is that he wasn't 100% on board with writing a LOR for me. But he also only teaches this course, so I would like to think that this disclaimer would be standard for everyone who's asked him in the past. I'm torn because I really liked this professor and it would be one of my science LORs, but I know that one "meh" LOR could be fatal.

What should I do??

Adcoms on here say they get a billion letters like this all the time. It will basically be a neutral letter, it won't sink your application or anything but its not going to boost you. As long as all 3-5 of your letters aren't like this it will be okay.


Honestly anyone can ace a class and get a letter of recommendation (pretty much everyone applying has many A's on their transcript). The letter isn't going to say much. The best letters come from writers you know over a period of time (did research in their lab, took many classes with, etc).

 

[liquidsodium]

I downloaded a powerpoint that states the secrets to strong LORs in medical school is that the letters do not repeat anything on the application. In other words, a LOR is pointless if they don't know much about you and professors want your application so they do not overlap. Some even ask to contact other letter writers to ensure they do not overlap anything if they really like the student and/or have plenty to say about the student and do not want to write redundant information. This is very rare, however.

The focus of our conversation was certainly different than the rest of my app. Here, OP also has a chance to tailor the info his/her prof receives, though maybe less effectively than through a face-to-face conversation


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[lexington251]

Adcoms on here say they get a billion letters like this all the time. It will basically be a neutral letter, it won't sink your application or anything but its not going to boost you. As long as all 3-5 of your letters aren't like this it will be okay.


Honestly anyone can ace a class and get a letter of recommendation (pretty much everyone applying has many A's on their transcript). The letter isn't going to say much. The best letters come from writers you know over a period of time (did research in their lab, took many classes with, etc).

My school provides a committee letter and recommends at least three LORs (2 science and 1 non science). I have two strong non-science LORs, and 1 science LOR. Would that be alright if the two non-science professors can attest to my qualities?

I'm trying to keep my options open. I'm currently in a course that's MUCH smaller than regular science courses I've taken, and I'm getting along with my professor pretty well. Hopefully things will work out!

 

[cloudstrife2054]

Good news for you is many schools allow you to substitute those requirements with a committee letter. Bad news is some don't. Some schools require 2 academic letters, one of which has to be a science letter. For the ones that require 2 science professors and one non-science professor and do not accept a committee letter in lieu of those letters, you are not eligible to apply. I cannot help but wonder why you can't secure two science professors to write you decent letters. Assuming your current course is a science course, if it looks like you're doing well, ask them for a letter, even if it's before the semester starts.

A "meh" letter wouldn't be fatal. As long as they do not talk negative things you're fine. Generic letters still talk positive things about you, except it's not likely they'll talk any specific things about you. Even so, shoot for a strong letter and LORs are supposed to be entirely based on interactions with your letter writer. If they are not confident they cannot write a strong letter, find someone else.

From your initial post, doesn't seem like you know a large pool of science professors to pick as potential letter writers. To be blunt and frank, this process isn't even an issue if you show enthusiasm in science classes and a desire to learn. The fact you're struggling to stand out in your science classes may be an indication you are not yet ready for medical school. The end game of med school is not an MD, it's to get into residency. Residency applications typically require 2-3 recommendation letters from your medical professors as well as a Dean's Letter, which is like a medical school report card. Like high school report cards, they also have remarks such as "Shows enthusiasm", "A pleasure to have in class", etc. Maybe you're not quite ready for medical school. That's just my opinion.

I easily stood out in a class of 72 students. Honestly, it wouldn't matter if it was 72 or 1,000. The professor would still recognize me since I participate in lecture and enjoy the topics. Not bragging, just showing you how I have a healthy pool of science professors to be my letter writers.

To show you what a Dean's Letter looks like, here you go. If more than half of your professors, especially science professors cannot say these remarks about you, consider a different career. Notice how getting a B did not stop the professor from putting positive remarks on the student. It's the attitude you display in class that says it all.
http://www.usmleweb.com/showarticle109.html

 

[lexington251]

Good news for you is many schools allow you to substitute those requirements with a committee letter. Bad news is some don't. Some schools require 2 academic letters, one of which has to be a science letter. For the ones that require 2 science professors and one non-science professor and do not accept a committee letter in lieu of those letters, you are not eligible to apply. I cannot help but wonder why you can't secure two science professors to write you decent letters. Assuming your current course is a science course, if it looks like you're doing well, ask them for a letter, even if it's before the semester starts.

A "meh" letter wouldn't be fatal. As long as they do not talk negative things you're fine. Generic letters still talk positive things about you, except it's not likely they'll talk any specific things about you. Even so, shoot for a strong letter and LORs are supposed to be entirely based on interactions with your letter writer. If they are not confident they cannot write a strong letter, find someone else.

From your initial post, doesn't seem like you know a large pool of science professors to pick as potential letter writers. To be blunt and frank, this process isn't even an issue if you show enthusiasm in science classes and a desire to learn. The fact you're struggling to stand out in your science classes may be an indication you are not yet ready for medical school. The end game of med school is not an MD, it's to get into residency. Residency applications typically require 2-3 recommendation letters from your medical professors as well as a Dean's Letter, which is like a medical school report card. Like high school report cards, they also have remarks such as "Shows enthusiasm", "A pleasure to have in class", etc. Maybe you're not quite ready for medical school. That's just my opinion.

I easily stood out in a class of 72 students. Honestly, it wouldn't matter if it was 72 or 1,000. The professor would still recognize me since I participate in lecture and enjoy the topics. Not bragging, just showing you how I have a healthy pool of science professors to be my letter writers.

To show you what a Dean's Letter looks like, here you go. If more than half of your professors, especially science professors cannot say these remarks about you, consider a different career. Notice how getting a B did not stop the professor from putting positive remarks on the student. It's the attitude you display in class that says it all.
http://www.usmleweb.com/showarticle109.html

I appreciate your message. My science professors are so busy, it's rare to be able to talk one-on-one with them. I don't think it's an issue of getting a good science LOR, but rather a great one. Perhaps I set my standards too high!

 

[cloudstrife2054]

Thanks for not being those annoyingly sensitive people who can't take the truth as it is!