should i give up anesthesia?

[takis]

i'm writing this because i recently learned that I failed comlex PE both biomech and humanism. during preclinicals i knew i was weak with the PE stuff (my school has a low PE pass rate and is terrible at preparing us), but i thought rotations and studying a week for the PE would prepare me, i guess not. i even passed the "harshly graded" 6 SP OSCE/mock a couple weeks before which gave me some false confidence. i hope i pass on the 2nd try.

i have a step 1 of 241 and comlex 1 600 both first try. i'm currently studying for both step 2 CK and comlex 2 CE which i will take right before MS4 starts. i think i will do alright, but like the PE or any other high-stakes test anything could happen. unfortunately, my CV is quite bare with some sparse volunteering, but no research. i honored 2/7 of my rotations.

up until now i have been planning to apply to anesthesia hoping to get into a low-mid tier program, but with this failure i'm not sure if i will be able to even match. apps are just around the corner now. i was planning to apply to 50 programs + some prelims for advanced programs, but now i think i need at least 70+ trying to reach all the bottom programs. will i even get any interviews? i've read some anesthesia programs not considering CS/PE failures which worried me.

the only other specialty i am willing to consider is IM which i will likely end up being a hospitalist. it's not ideal, but it's not terrible. however, my letters are directed to anesthesia, so it's quite clear to the IM programs that i am interested in anesthesia. it was difficult getting the letters the first time, so i think it getting a 2nd set from them in time for apps might not be feasible.

of everything that sinks my career, it was the PE. how embarrassing.

any feedback would be helpful.

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[anon6134]

Apply to 70-100 anesthesia programs, this is not the time to be cheap. You have a board failure now but solid Step 1 scores, goes without being said but dominate Step 2 and roll the dice on 100 anesthesia programs. Get a solid away rotation with a good letter. Get two if you can.

You have two months to figure out your letter situation, start now. Get them from your upcoming rotations, previous, whatever you need to do to have 3 letters geared up for IM as a back up. Get your IM personal statement ready.

My suggestion is 70-100 smartly placed anesthesia apps, 40-50 or so smartly placed IM apps. With a decent application but a PE failure you are rolling the dice on what programs will care so spend the money and protect yourself with enough applications. Get a passing PE score ASAP, preferably before October

 

[Cheeni17]

No but get backup IM letters

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The board failure is indeed a red flag, but your step 1 is quite good. I think audition rotations can be key in your case. When you audition, show up early, stay late, volunteer to give presentations if not assigned. Be helpful and especially be good natured. A hard worker with great interpersonal skills can overcome many things, even a board failure. Programs are concerned about applicants passing anesthesia boards and a strong step score is a big help

 

[nimbus]

I’ve been out of the educational system for a while. Do most anesthesia program directors even know what COMLEX PE is? Do you have to report it on your application or can you just apply with your step 1?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I’ve been out of the educational system for a while. Do most anesthesia program directors even know what COMLEX PE is? Do you have to report it on your application or can you just apply with your step 1?

COMLEX PE is completely separate from Step 1. It's the physical exam test that's P/F. You need to report it, unless maybe you take Step 2 CS (the MD version of the same exam), but I'm not sure what the rules on that are since I have never heard of a DO taking Step 2 CS.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm not sure what the rules on that are since I have never heard of a DO taking Step 2 CS.

There aren't any rules, it's just that most DOs don't take it because 1. It doesn't do anything for them and is pretty worthless and 2. is an additional 1200 bucks

 

[ananasmed]

COMLEX PE is completely separate from Step 1. It's the physical exam test that's P/F. You need to report it, unless maybe you take Step 2 CS (the MD version of the same exam), but I'm not sure what the rules on that are since I have never heard of a DO taking Step 2 CS.

"Rules" would just be that unfortunately OP has to send the PE score, because you can't pick and choose which COMLEX exam scores to send - it just goes as a bundle - and OP has to send level 1 (and level 2 CE if taken before apps).

 

[FistLength]

I don't know why people are saying apply to a back up. You will match anesthesia fine. PE is a steaming pile of trash, and I know people that failed and matched very well. Just pass the second time. Practice on actual people. The biomechanical part you can pass easier because it is ticking the boxes based on history/physical and pretending to do OMTrash. Humanism you'll have to look up, I don't remember off the top of my head what they look for other than common courteous things.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

i'm writing this because i recently learned that I failed comlex PE both biomech and humanism. during preclinicals i knew i was weak with the PE stuff (my school has a low PE pass rate and is terrible at preparing us), but i thought rotations and studying a week for the PE would prepare me, i guess not. i even passed the "harshly graded" 6 SP OSCE/mock a couple weeks before which gave me some false confidence. i hope i pass on the 2nd try.

i have a step 1 of 241 and comlex 1 600 both first try. i'm currently studying for both step 2 CK and comlex 2 CE which i will take right before MS4 starts. i think i will do alright, but like the PE or any other high-stakes test anything could happen. unfortunately, my CV is quite bare with some sparse volunteering, but no research. i honored 2/7 of my rotations.

up until now i have been planning to apply to anesthesia hoping to get into a low-mid tier program, but with this failure i'm not sure if i will be able to even match. apps are just around the corner now. i was planning to apply to 50 programs + some prelims for advanced programs, but now i think i need at least 70+ trying to reach all the bottom programs. will i even get any interviews? i've read some anesthesia programs not considering CS/PE failures which worried me.

the only other specialty i am willing to consider is IM which i will likely end up being a hospitalist. it's not ideal, but it's not terrible. however, my letters are directed to anesthesia, so it's quite clear to the IM programs that i am interested in anesthesia. it was difficult getting the letters the first time, so i think it getting a 2nd set from them in time for apps might not be feasible.

of everything that sinks my career, it was the PE. how embarrassing.

any feedback would be helpful.

Ah man that sucks, I am sorry your going thru this. I think you should retake as soon as possible and maybe take the west virginia PE prep course. This will hurt you, but I dont think your dead. Hopefully you have some aways already set up.

 

[DrMcLovin]

I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m not sure if you did already, but studying the “COMLEX PE orientation guide pdf” really helped me understand exactly what they are looking for and what is being tested. Mixed in with all the BS they list what they are looking for in each domain.

FWIW, I don’t think you should give up on anesthesia based on a PE failure but you will need a passing score ASAP.

https://www.nbome.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/COMLEX-USA_L2PE_Orientation_Guide-website-20192020.pdf

 

[SurgeDO]

It sucks, but I don’t think you are out of the running for a gas spot—especially this year given all this new CRNA bull ****.

You need to pass this test ASAP. Sign up for a retake tomorrow if you can. As long as you passed this before interviews or by the time programs make rank lists, you’ll be fine.

I’m not in anesthesia, but my program knows how much bull **** the PE is. We just want to know that you passed it so that if we rank you, we know you’ll be able to start on July 1st. Just another hurdle my friend.

 

[Select All That Apply]

It sucks, but I don’t think you are out of the running for a gas spot—especially this year given all this new CRNA bull ****.

You need to pass this test ASAP. Sign up for a retake tomorrow if you can. As long as you passed this before interviews or by the time programs make rank lists, you’ll be fine.

I’m not in anesthesia, but my program knows how much bull **** the PE is. We just want to know that you passed it so that if we rank you, we know you’ll be able to start on July 1st. Just another hurdle my friend.

Out of curiosity what is happening with CRNAs this year? Could you elaborate?

 

[SurgeDO]

Out of curiosity what is happening with CRNAs this year? Could you elaborate?

Their militant, lying lobbying organization changing their title to “nurse anesthesiologists” and accusing real anesthesiologists of committing fraud. They are in the process of launching a huge campaign focused around deceiving the general public and government about their false qualifications.

 

[zero0]

I think you're fine. Anesthesia is not competitive. Apply broadly and do aways if you can to at least guarantee a few interviews. I'm maxing out on aways personally because I am NOT screwing around with the match and my low 230s score isn't impressing anybody :/

 

[Select All That Apply]

Their militant, lying lobbying organization changing their title to “nurse anesthesiologists” and accusing real anesthesiologists of committing fraud. They are in the process of launching a huge campaign focused around deceiving the general public and government about their false qualifications.

The ANA and the AANA have always been aggressive when it comes to lobbying. According to OpenSecrets, they supported the ACA because they saw it as an opportunity to insert legislative language that NPs and MD/DOs would both be considered "primary-care providers." When it comes to physicians in each state, they should be aware of who their key representatives are who have their interests at heart because those politicians will be lobbied for by the ANA or will find themselves running against a candidate who has been lobbied for by the ANA. For example, independent practice rights in Florida (CS/CS/CS/HB 821: Health Care Practitioners) which was going to be implemented July 1st of this year sailed through the Florida House of Representatives, before it was KIA in Senate by the Committee on Health Policy. These individuals arguably are the few people within each state who are critical to preventing mid-level creep when it comes to maintaining the livelihood of physicians in practice.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

I think you're fine. Anesthesia is not competitive. Apply broadly and do aways if you can to at least guarantee a few interviews. I'm maxing out on aways personally because I am NOT screwing around with the match and my low 230s score isn't impressing anybody :/

This is a point that needs a little discussion. This last year was tough interview wise for D.O.'s. The amount of applicants holding on to interviews was more, and waitlists saw significantly less movement. Places where D.O.'s could normally expect a guaranteed interview were all the sudden coming up silent- it was a shock to a lot of people including past applicants. Given that the AOA anesthesia spots were essentially non-existent this last year (I think there were like...4 spots), last year could possibly been seen as representative of what the merger match will look like- so at least you have some semblance of information.

OP will likely match, however, as one person already said they'll need to apply to almost every program there is. Go on every interview, and mentally brace themselves to rank low on their list.

 

[Wjldenver]

OP, it looks like you are at KCU. Here are my thoughts based upon what I've seen over the years.

O I don't understand why all DO schools do not adequately prepare their students for the PE exam. West Virginia U seems to be the only school capable of doing this at a high level.

O DO school administrators and/or faculty members need to emphasize how important it is to pass all of your boards upon first attempt. I've seen students take the PE exam being underprepared, and they just think it is not a big deal if they need to re-take it. But it is.... Primarily because I've seen many Program Directors not rank students who have a board failure of any kind. It's a very easy way to eliminate people when they are deluged with applicants.

O Program Directors have many biases. So apply to every anesthesia program which is out there. You simply need to cast a wide net. Based upon the PD biases I've seen, you may have more luck in the Midwest since KCU is established there. But I've also seen other Program Directors select students who are from the state they grew up in and/or went to undergrad school in. (So also focus on all applicable programs in your home state.)

O Definitely proof the MSPE (Dean's Letter) which KCU will prepare. I've seen some comments in these which eliminate viable candidates from contention. Contest any entry which you think is incorrect and/or misleading.

Good Luck!

 

[Wjldenver]

Are you saying ^ in general or from KCU specifically?

...General advice, not KCU specific.

 

[JimBone905]

OP, it looks like you are at KCU. Here are my thoughts based upon what I've seen over the years.

O I don't understand why all DO schools do not adequately prepare their students for the PE exam. West Virginia U seems to be the only school capable of doing this at a high level.

O DO school administrators and/or faculty members need to emphasize how important it is to pass all of your boards upon first attempt. I've seen students take the PE exam being underprepared, and they just think it is not a big deal if they need to re-take it. But it is.... Primarily because I've seen many Program Directors not rank students who have a board failure of any kind. It's a very easy way to eliminate people when they are deluged with applicants.

O Program Directors have many biases. So apply to every anesthesia program which is out there. You simply need to cast a wide net. Based upon the PD biases I've seen, you may have more luck in the Midwest since KCU is established there. But I've also seen other Program Directors select students who are from the state they grew up in and/or went to undergrad school in. (So also focus on all applicable programs in your home state.)

O Definitely proof the MSPE (Dean's Letter) which KCU will prepare. I've seen some comments in these which eliminate viable candidates from contention. Contest any entry which you think is incorrect and/or misleading.

Good Luck!

Do you mean WVSOM or WVUSOM

 

[Wjldenver]

Do you mean WVSOM or WVUSOM

PE Prep Course | West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine

www.wvsom.edu