Should I tell on a "friend" who is going to lie on AMCAS?

[UlahSnackbar]

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I went to a "friend's" apartment the other day and we were talking about applying to medical school. I have not started my applications yet since I'm still writing my PS. Anyway, I asked to see her AMCAS since she said early submissions gives applicants a leg up on the competition, thus she has her's ready to submit tomorrow.

Now, she got a 36 on her MCAT(pretty damn impressive). And she has a good GPA. But then I got to the ECs section...she completely lied about going to Ecuador and building steps and taking care of children for two weeks. She also fabricated her volunteer hours a ton(I know because I volunteer with her). When I say a ton, I mean turning about 30 hours in 500 hours. Not only that, she worked in an office with me not in an emergency department like she claims. Moreover, she also put down she is doing 200 hours shadowing in radiology and putting her cousin down as the contact, who is really just an ultrasound tech. And most egregious of all? The credit she is taking for a research poster presented at the University's undergraduate research conference that another one of my friend's did most of the work on. Lastly, she put down that she is part of the medical fraternity at school.

Furthermore, I do not think this girl is cut out for medical school. She just whines about how daddy won't pay for her to go more shopping. She hates poor people and constantly goes on about her ayn rand philosophy of caring about only herself. The only reason I tolerate her is because we've had many classes together and hang around most of the same circles. I want to believe everyone can redeem themselves later down the road, but I don't know if I would want this girl taking care of my mom or dad with the way she is lying. She reminds me of those physicians who give butt implants to unsuspecting victims even though she is only a Family Practioner, not a plastic surgeon.

TL;DR: Friend is lying alot on application and is a terrible human being. Should I alert AMCAS or any medical schools she applies to?

 

[jm192]

LOL

This is amazing.

You mad bro?

 

[el_duderino]

No, don't alert anyone. At some point this will catch up to her and she will be toast. Either right now, during school itself, etc.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

No, I am more concerned than mad "brah"

 

[deleted407021]

Lastly, she put down that she is part of the medical fraternity at school.

No! Anything but that!


Joking aside, she isn't just "inflating" her credentials a bit, she is outright lying. I'm not sure how this is to be handled. Hopefully you'll get some good answers. :/

 

[mrh125]

Keep in mind if you do this you have to realize that hundreds or more people do the same thing and it won't level the playing field. I'm not even sure if you could report it to amcas effectively and it'd probably just devolve into "your word versus hers" kind of like cheating in school. This is why I never reported cheaters in college because it never goes anywhere and it just wastes my time and energy. If you can make something of this to get her circumstances discredited, that'd be great though in all honesty. It'd also help me like me who actually have large numbers of hours volunteering be taken seriously since people couldn't just inflate their hours and be taken at face value.

 

[Teleologist]

I'm not sure how this is to be handled.

Blow the whistle. Lying shouldn't be tolerated, ever.

If you don't want to, think about what happened at the VA with the 36 dead veterans all because some people lied.

If you don't want to make it your word vs. hers, make it clear that there are deliberate, factual, misrepresentations. Stuff that can be found out just by checking say the roster of the medical fraternity.

 

[el_duderino]

Do schools ever contact the people listed to verify any of these activities/honors/hours?

 

[Person0715]

What she's doing is definitely wrong, but if you do decide to speak up, it'll be difficult to prove something like that, and the burden of proof will be on you. In the end, she's the one who will be losing out. When an interviewer asks about her 500 hour experience (if she gets that far), she'll only have 30 hours worth to talk about.

 

[k8gr87]

i hope people like this would screw up the interviews. hopefully she doesn't (or does...?) read sdn

 

[Ismet]

Just worry about yourself, dude. Let it go.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Lol all yall are acting like this is incredulous. This happens all day every day everywhere.

And no, this will not catch up to her. Karma, unfortunately, is not a bitch. People who lie don't always fall prey to their own doings

 

[EMDO2018]

Well, she can't lie about the two most heavily weight admissions criteria-36 MCAT and "good GPA.

 

[deleted407021]

When she is asked about her "mission" trips and she responds with a vacant look and a "wha-?", that will give her away. Additionally, her personality will probably show during interviews.

 

[CpnClwVie]

I don't know what you're concerned about. Lying is wrong but you aren't in the position to judge who is and isn't cut out for medical school.

 

[listener23]

Snitches get stitches....

 

[IncognitoGuy]

Honestly, it's not your place to do so. If she is as big of a misfit as you describe, things will catch up with her.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

See the thing is that I want to let it go, but this is outright fabrication. I mean, I know some people embellish, but outright make stuff up? I could go to our hospital's volunteer coordinator and ask for her volunteer hours, but I don't think they would give it to me. Maybe if I tell him the situation he could help me alert med schools, but idk. I don't want to face any kind of retaliation for messing up someone's life by getting them blacklisted or looking like a tattle tale myself.

 

[jm192]

No, I am more concerned than mad "brah"

You asked to see her AMCAS and then ran to SDN to ask if you should tell on her for lying.

You say YOU don't think she's cut out to be a physician despite her excellent stats. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the whole lying dilemma. You give the impression that you are already largely biased against this person, found a way to hurt them, and want validation that it is "ok" to do so.

It's really not your place, and quite frankly if I was AMCAS, I'd find you to be whiny.

If she gets into medical school because she lied about volunteering hours, so what? So do countless others. You're delusional if you think she's the first.

But, but, doctors are supposed to be honest, right?! Because no one on SDN ever lied. But if it's somehow related to getting into medical school--THAT is the lie that counts. LOL.

Lastly, YOU thinking she isn't cut out for it is irrelevant. An adcom gets to decide that.

There's a process in place for a reason. If she gets through the process, she's competent. If she doesn't, she's not.

 

[el_duderino]

See the thing is that I want to let it go, but this is outright fabrication. I mean, I know some people embellish, but outright make stuff up? I could go to our hospital's volunteer coordinator and ask for her volunteer hours, but I don't think they would give it to me. Maybe if I tell him the situation he could help me alert med schools, but idk. I don't want to face any kind of retaliation for messing up someone's life by getting them blacklisted or looking like a tattle tale myself.

If you spend this much time worrying about what other people are doing to get ahead, you're going to have a tough time in med school I think 😉

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

When she is asked about her "mission" trips and she responds with a vacant look and a "wha-?", that will give her away. Additionally, her personality will probably show during interviews.

You underestimate the prowess of prolific liars

 

[mrh125]

See the thing is that I want to let it go, but this is outright fabrication. I mean, I know some people embellish, but outright make stuff up? I could go to our hospital's volunteer coordinator and ask for her volunteer hours, but I don't think they would give it to me. Maybe if I tell him the situation he could help me alert med schools, but idk. I don't want to face any kind of retaliation for messing up someone's life by getting them blacklisted or looking like a tattle tale myself.

This happens all the time. There's also people whose rich parents just write deans a check and get into medical schools regardless of their stats.

 

[mrh125]

You underestimate the prowess of prolific liars

also, google and wikipedia.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

This happens all the time. There's also people whose rich parents just write deans a check and get into medical schools regardless of their stats.

Dude this is totally me. Except I'm not rich and no checks were written to schools. I just have parents

 

[Ismet]

This happens all the time. There's also people whose rich parents just write deans a check and get into medical schools regardless of their stats.

Lol that doesn't happen that easily. That might get the kid an interview, but if they're not cut out for the school, they're not getting in.

One of my classmates interviewed the child of an alumnus/faculty member. Kid was an a** in the interview and got rejected.

 

[el_duderino]

You know what? Do it.

Call AMCAS and tell them. Call every medical school she's applying to and give them the heads up.

Let us know what the schools say. Actually, record the conversations and post them here.

 

[deleted407021]

You underestimate the prowess of prolific liars

I suppose I just hope she can't perform under pressure, but yes, many people live false lives.

 

[listener23]

Lol that doesn't happen that easily. That might get the kid an interview, but if they're not cut out for the school, they're not getting in.

Everybody has a price. If the parents have their name on one of the schools building, I'm sure that little brat is getting in

 

[jm192]

If you spend this much time worrying about what other people are doing to get ahead, you're going to have a tough time in med school I think 😉

This is the PERFECT post for this situation.

OP, you're going to see this situation hundreds of times over throughout life. The answer is almost always mind your own business.

Sure, if someone is doing something that is affecting patient care, you have an obligation to speak up.

But for most other situations, you look like a whiny "tattle tell" for a lack of a better term.

You're not "protecting medicine." You're reacting because you feel you're being wronged or because you don't like this person.

It's really a victimless crime.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

You asked to see her AMCAS and then ran to SDN to ask if you should tell on her for lying.

You say YOU don't think she's cut out to be a physician despite her excellent stats. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the whole lying dilemma. You give the impression that you are already largely biased against this person, found a way to hurt them, and want validation that it is "ok" to do so.

It's really not your place, and quite frankly if I was AMCAS, I'd find you to be whiny.

If she gets into medical school because she lied about volunteering hours, so what? So do countless others. You're delusional if you think she's the first.

But, but, doctors are supposed to be honest, right?! Because no one on SDN ever lied. But if it's somehow related to getting into medical school--THAT is the lie that counts. LOL.

Lastly, YOU thinking she isn't cut out for it is irrelevant. An adcom gets to decide that.

There's a process in place for a reason. If she gets through the process, she's competent. If she doesn't, she's not.

Have you ever heard of being ethical? When you give a patient 10x the dose of medication, are you going to be honest and tell the patient's family it was your fault or are you gonna cover your own behind?

 

[mrh125]

You know what? Do it.

Call AMCAS and tell them. Call every medical school she's applying to and give them the heads up.

Let us know what the schools say. Actually, record the conversations and post them here.

calling every school?! lol imagine if she applied to all 141 schools. OP would have so much fun. Sad thing about op's forger friend is that she probably could have get into more than a few schools with her stats even w/o the BSing.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I'm more concerened about these physicians giving butt implants to unsuspecting victims. You think you're just going in for an ear infection, but then....BOOM....butt implant.

 

[jm192]

Have you ever heard of being ethical? When you give a patient 10x the dose of medication, are you going to be honest and tell the patient's family it was your fault or are you gonna cover your own behind?

The two aren't even related.

Telling someone YOU screwed up is ethical.

Telling someone someone else lied on their application is whiny.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm more concerened about these physicians giving butt implants to unsuspecting victims. You think you're just going in for an ear infection, but then....BOOM....butt implant.

Sometimes when I'm trying to find a pair of jeans, I suspect this has happened to me at some point.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

This is the PERFECT post for this situation.

OP, you're going to see this situation hundreds of times over throughout life. The answer is almost always mind your own business.

Sure, if someone is doing something that is affecting patient care, you have an obligation to speak up.

But for most other situations, you look like a whiny "tattle tell" for a lack of a better term.

You're not "protecting medicine." You're reacting because you feel you're being wronged or because you don't like this person.

It's really a victimless crime.

And how is it a victimless crime when thousands of students spend hundreds to thousands of dollars applying to medical schools and truly qualified applicants are rejected or waitlisted?

 

[Shams al Deen]

I think we all agree that you do not snitch in this spot. You let it play out, and mind your own business. After all, how do you know for sure that she didn't go to Ecuador etc. Maybe she told you she was lying on amcas just to sound like a badass, idk.

The real question is what would you answer to this "dilemma" if it were asked in an MMI?

 

[Ismet]

And how is it a victimless crime when thousands of students spend hundreds to thousands of dollars applying to medical schools and truly qualified applicants are rejected or waitlisted?

That's life. Competition happens. It doesn't end with AMCAS.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

See the thing is that I want to let it go, but this is outright fabrication. I mean, I know some people embellish, but outright make stuff up? I could go to our hospital's volunteer coordinator and ask for her volunteer hours, but I don't think they would give it to me. Maybe if I tell him the situation he could help me alert med schools, but idk. I don't want to face any kind of retaliation for messing up someone's life by getting them blacklisted or looking like a tattle tale myself.

What she is doing is wrong, but many other applicants do the same... Let it go.

 

[Mr Interesting]

Sometimes when I'm trying to find a pair of jeans, I suspect this has happened to me at some point.

I almost choked on a starburst laughing so hard...

 

[jm192]

And how is it a victimless crime when thousands of students spend hundreds to thousands of dollars applying to medical schools and truly qualified applicants are rejected or waitlisted?

Bro.

Let's be serious for a second.

You want to tell on her to protect the people who are going to get waitlisted? You didn't even mention that in your intiial post.

Secondly, and this is the big one: 36 MCAT, "good GPA" as you put it--as long as she has SOME EC's, she's going to get in somewhere.

Third, and this is the REALLY big one: A lot of those waitlisted students are lying to increase their chances as well.

 

[el_duderino]

And how is it a victimless crime when thousands of students spend hundreds to thousands of dollars applying to medical schools and truly qualified applicants are rejected or waitlisted?

One of the things I consistently see the adcoms on the board here talk about looking for in an applicant is evidence of good decision-making ability.

The good, mature, adult decision here is to smile, nod, and move on with your day. If you want to be aggressive, sit down with your "friend" and have a little talk about ethics and starting off your medical career with a bunch of lies. If she doesn't want to hear it, apologize for bringing it up, and walk away.

The good, mature, adult decision is not to run around screaming that you caught someone doing something dishonest, trying to make sure no one falls for it. If they fall for it, oh well. It happens.

You have to think about the *reasons* behind your actions and the *consequences* thereof.

 

[UlahSnackbar]

Bro.

Let's be serious for a second.

You want to tell on her to protect the people who are going to get waitlisted? You didn't even mention that in your intiial post.

Secondly, and this is the big one: 36 MCAT, "good GPA" as you put it--as long as she has SOME EC's, she's going to get in somewhere.

Third, and this is the REALLY big one: A lot of those waitlisted students are lying to increase their chances as well.

Brah, you don't know medical school admissions. There is this thing called "looking at the whole applicant." Applicants with stellar stats are rejected every year from med schools. You remind me of the gunner premeds who will do anything to get to med school. Would you lie? You haven't argued any moral or ethical point, just that I would be a tattle tell if did report.

 

[Ismet]

Brah, you don't know medical school admissions. There is this thing called "looking at the whole applicant." Applicants with stellar stats are rejected every year from med schools. You remind me of the gunner premeds who will do anything to get to med school. Would you lie? You haven't argued any moral or ethical point, just that I would be a tattle tell if did report.

ITT: a pre-med tells a recently graduated medical student that he doesn't know medical school admissions.

make like your avatar and let it go. seriously.

 

[listener23]

No matter how good of a lier she is, when they ask about her Ecuador trip a person with average lie detecting abilities will be able to trip her up. Experienced adcom members will have excellent lie detecting abilities

 

[235009]

There will sure be egg on your face when you find out she actually did the things you claim she didn't do. It sounds like you barely know this person. Are you even sure you have your facts straight? Seems like you aren't since you wanted to go check her volunteer hours. Oh and wait until she accuses you of looking at her app without permission. This can go from you nailing her to ending your own career while she ends up at a top school.

 

[jm192]

Brah, you don't know medical school admissions. There is this thing called "looking at the whole applicant." Applicants with stellar stats are rejected every year from med schools. You remind me of the gunner premeds who will do anything to get to med school. Would you lie? You haven't argued any moral or ethical point, just that I would be a tattle tell if did report.

Because it's not a "medical school issue."

These situations are going to arise in all areas of life.

Are you going to tell on your neighbors for lying on their taxes?

If your wife calls in sick because she just needs a day off, are you going to call her job and tell them about her being a dirty liar?

I've been through the process. I've talked directly to ADCOMs about the process well after I was into med school and participated in the interview process. People like to glorify the value of EC's. But GREAT stats with OK EC's will almost always get you in. Maybe it won't get you into Hopkins or whatever is the hot medical school these days. But someone somewhere is going to decide this person is smart enough and a decent enough human being that they'll make it.

Just worry about you man. We're all gonna make it brah.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Experienced adcom members will have excellent lie detecting abilities

Ideally, not realistically. People are always bound to fail

 

[el_duderino]

ITT: a pre-med tells a recently graduated medical student that he doesn't know medical school admissions.

make like your avatar and let it go. seriously.

Well done.

 

[jm192]

ITT: a pre-med tells a recently graduated medical student that he doesn't know medical school admissions.

make like your avatar and let it go. seriously.

 

[Teleologist]

Again, if the evidence is airtight, then have we all not heard of the VA or do we all have the memory of a goldfish? Even if the OP's evidence is not airtight then perhaps it'll be best for everyone to not say anything, but that doesn't mean it's right adopting an attitude of never ratting someone out. Sometimes people need to be ratted out - i.e. the people at the VA who denied access to veterans and now 36 are dead.

Nonetheless, the apathetic attitudes here from future doctors is appalling. I hope you guys don't create the next VA scandal or something with 36 veterans in the ground because you put your job ahead of honesty. Even if the OP is completely off base, taking a stand such as who cares or just worry about yourself or it'll catch up eventually is appallingly apathetic.