Should incoming M1's even use Zanki/Premade decks now that Step is P/F?

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la flame

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I am going to a md school that will have true P/F for my classes. I've heard nothing but great things about Zanki but that was for graded Steps in prior years. Is there even a point in grinding out 20K+ Anki cards if all we need is a passing score?


Would it just be best to focus on passing my classes, finding research opportunities, ec's, enjoying life instead of going overboard with Zanki? And if so, should my class materials + outside resources like b&b be suffice to get a passing grade?
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Step 2 is still scored, and believe it or not the knowledge base you get from studying for step 1 still translates into step 2. Don't think you can just take it easy for the first two years because it's P/F.
 
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Anki is still the best way to learn IMO, regardless of step being p/f. I also second above: strong prep for step 1 will benefit you greatly when step 2 comes around
 
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I'm gonna zag a little bit on this one. I agree that step 1 prep is really important for step 2, especially the test taking aspects. However, many of the current step 1 decks are now 30k+ cards long, with details that will not be important at all for step 2.

About 60 - 70% of high yield topics for step 1 are also high yield for step 2, which leaves a lot of step 1 material that is not necessary for step 2 (I don't think I had a single histology question on step 2 and 1 pure 1 biochem question). The optimal outcome is probably somebody creating an edited step 1 deck that emphasizes things necessary for both and maybe also begins to prepare you for step 2 material a little more. Then a 4 week dedicated could be spent cramming step 1 specific stuff to get you up above that 65% line for passing.
 
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use anki if it works for you, don't use it if it doesn't. Not everyone used it even with a scored Step 1. but you do still need to learn the information and for some people anki may still be a useful way to do that
 
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My goal with step 1 is to get at least a 235-240 on the practice exams prior to the p/f exam itself. I think that's a good benchmark to see how well you're able to understand the main overarching concepts of step 1 without being lost in the details and wasting too much time on irrelevant anki cards. Then M3 year's the year where I really dig deep for the low yields and get a very thorough understanding of the material, since that's what's going to be tested.

However, I have heard anecdotally that step 2 will incorporate more and more step 1 stuff now that step 2 is the primary quantitative distinguisher for residency purposes. But maybe someone who recently took step 2 can speak more about this.

I'm doing what you're doing right now (kind of cruising by class lectures, while doing ECs, research, relaxing, etc) and I think that's a good plan for now, without too much of the consequences.
 
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Then M3 year's the year where I really dig deep for the low yields and get a very thorough understanding of the material, since that's what's going to be tested.
This seems like the opposite of how I would recommend approaching M3. I think it’s better to tackle esoteric factoids early while you have the time and energy, and focus on the clinical management elements that are central to step 2 while you’re on clinical rotations. It’s easier to relearn things you already have a vague memory of than to cram new low yield stuff into your brain after long days in the hospital/clinic
 
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This seems like the opposite of how I would recommend approaching M3. I think it’s better to tackle esoteric factoids early while you have the time and energy, and focus on the clinical management elements that are central to step 2 while you’re on clinical rotations. It’s easier to relearn things you already have a vague memory of than to cram new low yield stuff into your brain after long days in the hospital/clinic
Hmm no yeah, that makes sense as well. I assumed that low yields are what will get you the 260/270s for step 2. So then, would having a solid foundation for step 1 (230-240 level on practice nbmes) + focusing on uworld/anki during M3 year be sufficient enough for a high step 2 score?
 
I am going to a md school that will have true P/F for my classes. I've heard nothing but great things about Zanki but that was for graded Steps in prior years. Is there even a point in grinding out 20K+ Anki cards if all we need is a passing score?


Would it just be best to focus on passing my classes, finding research opportunities, ec's, enjoying life instead of going overboard with Zanki? And if so, should my class materials + outside resources like b&b be suffice to get a passing grade?
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You still have to pass your classes.
 
Step 2 is still scored, and believe it or not the knowledge base you get from studying for step 1 still translates into step 2. Don't think you can just take it easy for the first two years because it's P/F.
Aren't Step 2 decks + OME + UWorld Step 2 the way to go for prep? Anki is total overkill for P/F Step 1
 
You still have to pass your classes.
On that regard, i believe classes are good enough to at least sufficiently pass Step 1 by a good margin. The UFAPS/Anki craze is really needed for 250+... which isn't a thing anymore

Just focusing on classes + maybe B&B/Pathoma and practice questions are plenty enough
 
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Aren't Step 2 decks + OME + UWorld Step 2 the way to go for prep? Anki is total overkill for P/F Step 1
This is what I did. I’m done with all my shelves, about to take step 2 in 2 weeks
 
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On that regard, i believe classes are good enough to at least sufficiently pass Step 1 by a good margin. The UFAPS/Anki craze is really needed for 250+... which isn't a thing anymore

Just focusing on classes + maybe B&B/Pathoma and practice questions are plenty enough

While this may be true, who cares? Doing anking is not hard and is a super efficient way to learn for both step and classes. Why choose to do something more inefficient just because step is p/f?
 
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While this may be true, who cares? Doing anking is not hard and is a super efficient way to learn for both step and classes. Why choose to do something more inefficient just because step is p/f?
I don't think Anking works for everyone and it may be overwhelming to catch up with reviews for some.

Practice questions are still efficient but i agree Anki is better than passively watching lectures/B&B/pathoma.
 
I don't think Anking works for everyone and it may be overwhelming to catch up with reviews for some.

Practice questions are still efficient but i agree Anki is better than passively watching lectures/B&B/pathoma.

Anking specifically may not be great for everyone, but anki in general works for everyone. It is literally just spaced repetition which is literally how everyone learns. Anking, Zanki, cheesy lightyear, your own style of deck. It doesn’t matter. Using a premade deck that suits you is faster than making your own, so I usually recommend trying the various decks and seeing what you like more.

And yes. Lots of practice questions.
 
Aren't Step 2 decks + OME + UWorld Step 2 the way to go for prep? Anki is total overkill for P/F Step 1
Yes, but you still need a good preclinical knowledge base to succeed with those for step 2. I'm not saying OP needs to use anki for preclinical years no matter what. Just that they need to not take easy because step 1 is P/F.

Edit: There is a reason why people that get 250+ on step 1 also get 250-260 on step 2.
 
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I found I got the most done (and had the biggest jumps in my practice test scores) when I didn’t use premade Anki and instead made my own based off of UWorld.

You can nail down exactly what you in particular don’t understand, and not have cards on stuff you get intuitively so you lose a lot of the fluff. I found I spent a whole lot of time editing/changing the premade Anki cards to suit me anyway, plus my own deck ended up being much shorter than any of the premades, so I can’t imagine I actually wasted that much time.

But to each his own. I would recommend using Anki regardless of how you do it.
 
I found I got the most done (and had the biggest jumps in my practice test scores) when I didn’t use premade Anki and instead made my own based off of UWorld.

You can nail down exactly what you in particular don’t understand, and not have cards on stuff you get intuitively so you lose a lot of the fluff. I found I spent a whole lot of time editing/changing the premade Anki cards to suit me anyway, plus my own deck ended up being much shorter than any of the premades, so I can’t imagine I actually wasted that much time.

But to each his own. I would recommend using Anki regardless of how you do it.

Not to be picky, but you can easily suspend cards. Things you absolutely don’t need to see because you just know you won’t forget you can just suspend lol. But yes, some people do better making their own cards. I just suggest trying the various ones because there are more q&a style decks and more cloze deletion decks.
 
anki in general works for everyone
Hard disagree. It works for many people for sure! but it also makes many of us want to pull our hair out. There’s ways to ensure repetition of concepts while also mixing in a variety of formats and study methods that aren’t just a slow death by anki cards.
 
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Hmm no yeah, that makes sense as well. I assumed that low yields are what will get you the 260/270s for step 2. So then, would having a solid foundation for step 1 (230-240 level on practice nbmes) + focusing on uworld/anki during M3 year be sufficient enough for a high step 2 score?
I haven’t taken step 2 yet, so tbd. But I think you may be underestimating the low yield stuff you need to know to get 230-240 level. That’s well beyond a comfortable pass, depending on your baseline 240 can be a LOT of work. I’ve seen friends work their asses off for less than 230. Step 1 hits some really niche topics that I haven’t needed at all on the wards or on shelves so far. I’ll definitely refresh it for step 2 so I can at least have vague memories in case some stuff comes out of left field, but IMO the things that make shelves/step 2 hard are different than the esoteric factoids on step 1
 
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Hard disagree. It works for many people for sure! but it also makes many of us want to pull our hair out. There’s ways to ensure repetition of concepts while also mixing in a variety of formats and study methods that aren’t just a slow death by anki cards.

Anki is literally just spaced repetition. You can customize and change the format to be literally any style. Audio, q&a, flash cards, matching, images, almost anything. It is literally designed to be an optimized spaced repetition program for whatever style you want so that you can focus on learning and not have to worry about when to look at things again. It is well studied, and there are actual studies on anki for SR. There’s nothing to disagree with.

I agree that some people may need to make their own decks to suit their preferred style (though the concept of different learning styles has actually been debunked, some people do prefer to do matching style stuff or questions, etc.).
 
I am one of the M1's who are choosing to keep up with Anking, even with Step1 P/F. Reviews do increase the more you study, so the stuff of things to do aren't getting any lesser on my plate lol. Sometimes it does feel like a lot.

That said, I was curious if people typically suspend Step1 Zanki deck post Step 1 and study Zanki Step2 deck solely? Or do you keep up with Step1 Zanki reviews post Step1 to prep for Step2?
 
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Anki is literally just spaced repetition. You can customize and change the format to be literally any style. Audio, q&a, flash cards, matching, images, almost anything. It is literally designed to be an optimized spaced repetition program for whatever style you want so that you can focus on learning and not have to worry about when to look at things again. It is well studied, and there are actual studies on anki for SR. There’s nothing to disagree with.

I agree that some people may need to make their own decks to suit their preferred style (though the concept of different learning styles has actually been debunked, some people do prefer to do matching style stuff or questions, etc.).
I think TE was talking about Anki as a system. I used a premade deck for the MCAT and it was actual torture trying to get things to make sense in the broader context. Then I started making my own cards just for things I missed and some high yield stuff and that was much better and I started liking anki a lot more.

I can definitely understand if anki is not for everyone -- some people like the continuity of reading textbooks or powerpoints. I personally think as long as you're looking at the material and actively trying to understand it (and reviewing), then you don't need anki. There's plenty of 260+ who used UFAP/BUFAP and didn't touch anki.

I think I will end up using Zanki and add/edit some cards to my liking. I've messed around a little bit with it and I like the format a lot and while I also like learning from traditional lectures for the continuity, I think you can fish out the same continuity in anki if you're not just mindlessly smashing the spacebar.
 
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I think TE was talking about Anki as a system. I used a premade deck for the MCAT and it was actual torture trying to get things to make sense in the broader context. Then I started making my own cards just for things I missed and some high yield stuff and that was much better and I started liking anki a lot more.

I can definitely understand if anki is not for everyone -- some people like the continuity of reading textbooks or powerpoints. I personally think as long as you're looking at the material and actively trying to understand it (and reviewing), then you don't need anki. There's plenty of 260+ who used UFAP/BUFAP and didn't touch anki.

I think I will end up using Zanki and add/edit some cards to my liking. I've messed around a little bit with it and I like the format a lot and while I also like learning from traditional lectures for the continuity, I think you can fish out the same continuity in anki if you're not just mindlessly smashing the spacebar.

You guys are arguing different points. People might like reading textbooks, but there is no disputing that textbooks are one of the most inefficient ways to learn. Not everyone likes anki. That is not the same as it not working.

Not sure how else to say this. Spaced repetition is literally how everyone learns. Everyone. That’s all anki is. You can make the cards however you want. I’m not arguing that zanki or anking will work for everyone. I’m saying anki as a platform will work for everyone because it is just an automated spaced repetition program.
 
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Anki is literally just spaced repetition. You can customize and change the format to be literally any style. Audio, q&a, flash cards, matching, images, almost anything. It is literally designed to be an optimized spaced repetition program for whatever style you want so that you can focus on learning and not have to worry about when to look at things again. It is well studied, and there are actual studies on anki for SR. There’s nothing to disagree with.

I agree that some people may need to make their own decks to suit their preferred style (though the concept of different learning styles has actually been debunked, some people do prefer to do matching style stuff or questions, etc.).
I'm not disagreeing with the idea of spaced repetition, but customized or not for some of us anki is so mind numbingly boring that it's just not efficient or pleasant to force ourselves to use it when other methods are working fine.

Another issue I have with anki specifically is that while it's repeating the info on a good schedule, it's the same exact card every time (yeah i know you can customize it to hide different parts or whatever, but it's still the same base card/context). This is good for recognizing specific details in specific contexts - spaced repetition has specifically been shown to be good for things like learning vocabulary, where you're trying to store and retrieve large numbers of specific concrete facts. but I find it unhelpful for learning to recognize known information in new contexts, or be able to think through a complex clinical presentation or physiologic concept.

My preference is for things like questions banks, where you can encounter the same concept repeatedly in different (new!) contexts, and it's combined with a critical thinking aspect. Yes, it's not as perfectly scheduled as anki, but I find it both more pleasant and effective for my studying needs. I supplement it with various other strategies that may be more "inefficient" but are vastly more pleasant for me than anki. Seeing the same concept in different contexts (lectures, qbanks, small group discussions, actual patients) is what works best for me. It's like how they say that "the best diet is one you can stick to" - I understand the idea behind anki and why it works for many, but it didn't for me and may not for many others.
 
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You guys are arguing different points. People might like reading textbooks, but there is no disputing that textbooks are one of the most inefficient ways to learn. Not everyone likes anki. That is not the same as it not working.

No we're not. If someone really, truly, dislikes a certain system to the point that they can't force themselves to use it, it's not working for that person
 
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No we're not. If someone really, truly, dislikes a certain system to the point that they can't force themselves to use it, it's not working for that person

I go to school with some people who say anki doesn’t work for them. And then I see them making flashcards on actual flashcards or on Quizlet. Or they’re making questions or looking at pictures over and over. Like dude, you’re doing anki. You’re just doing it the hard way by not letting it automate the repetition for you.

I guess I just have a different perspective. I don’t choose my learning method based on which one I enjoy the most, I pick it based on which one is the most efficient and lets me have more free time to do other stuff while still retaining the information. In preclinical, I did all my cards for the day in less than 90 mins. I don’t find that particularly taxing.
 
I think TE was talking about Anki as a system. I used a premade deck for the MCAT and it was actual torture trying to get things to make sense in the broader context. Then I started making my own cards just for things I missed and some high yield stuff and that was much better and I started liking anki a lot more.

I can definitely understand if anki is not for everyone -- some people like the continuity of reading textbooks or powerpoints. I personally think as long as you're looking at the material and actively trying to understand it (and reviewing), then you don't need anki. There's plenty of 260+ who used UFAP/BUFAP and didn't touch anki.

I think I will end up using Zanki and add/edit some cards to my liking. I've messed around a little bit with it and I like the format a lot and while I also like learning from traditional lectures for the continuity, I think you can fish out the same continuity in anki if you're not just mindlessly smashing the spacebar.
Premade anki mcat decks are complete trash. The point of the mcat is to understand the concepts and apply them well to answer questions, not content review.

For steps, content review matters a lot and premade decks like anking are far superior and of great quality
 
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I go to school with some people who say anki doesn’t work for them. And then I see them making flashcards on actual flashcards or on Quizlet. Or they’re making questions or looking at pictures over and over. Like dude, you’re doing anki. You’re just doing it the hard way by not letting it automate the repetition for you.

I guess I just have a different perspective. I don’t choose my learning method based on which one I enjoy the most, I pick it based on which one is the most efficient and lets me have more free time to do other stuff while still retaining the information. In preclinical, I did all my cards for the day in less than 90 mins. I don’t find that particularly taxing.
my point is that different people are different, and find different things taxing. i've said repeatedly that anki works for many people and I'm glad it works for you. Automation is great but not perfect, and if your classmates found ways that work for them then i am happy for them too.
 
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You still have classes and a lot of information to learn!

Anki is a good and efficient system. Keeping up with the cards is easy.
 
Premade anki mcat decks are complete trash. The point of the mcat is to understand the concepts and apply them well to answer questions, not content review.

For steps, content review matters a lot and premade decks like anking are far superior and of great quality
I heard step 2 wasn't as content-based as step 1 and people compared it to the MCAT?

And yeah, premade MCAT decks are garbage lol. I figured that out the hard way when half the cards were about some obscure hyper-low-yield anatomy of the ear. Some people still hype them up though. I guess it wasn't a complete waste because it's taught me to actually test things out before buying the hype.
 
The best thing you can do is get rid of the decks for Step 1.
 
Step 2 is still scored, and believe it or not the knowledge base you get from studying for step 1 still translates into step 2. Don't think you can just take it easy for the first two years because it's P/F.
But lets not pretend that Anki is a must to do well in M1/M2, or even to do well on Step 1. It's how I prefer to keep things organized, but it's really time consuming and not the best approach for everyone.
 
Aren't Step 2 decks + OME + UWorld Step 2 the way to go for prep? Anki is total overkill for P/F Step 1
I don't think Anki is total overkill for P/F Step 1. The current step decks are overkill. A Step 1 deck aimed toward understanding and retaining the big picture with 5,000-10,000 cards rather than 30,000 would be ideal.

IMO: read and understand Costanzo and school slides for physiology, Pathoma/BnB and Anki for pathology, Sketchy and Anki for bugs and drugs. That should carry you far.
 
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IMO Zanki/Anking/whatever comprehensive deck would be major overkill. I do think it would be useful to do a bugs and drugs deck, i.e. pepper micro and pharm. And maybe some zanki biochem.
 
I've been using it, though I go to a school that isn't P/F and I have to take COMLEX, which was originally still going to be scored when I started. Now I'm kind of in too deep to stop.

Personally I think it's useful for building the basic knowledge base you need to pass classes and the boards. At least for me, doing Anki alone is not nearly enough to get 90%+ in classes, and the reviews can honestly be time consuming on some days (takes me anywhere from 1-4 hours just to do Anki reviews). But overall, it does seem like a pretty efficient way to study in terms of time consumed vs how much benefit you get. The alternatives to Anki just don't seem much better.
 
Absolutely do not grind 20k step 1 cards as an MS1, that is looooow yield for CK two years later. If you need to do something above and beyond passing classes, you're better off starting UWorld Step 2 sooner (or an alternative Qbank if you want to save it). But really, you can focus on passing and deal with shelves and CK using CK-specific materials during MS3.
 
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Step 2 is still scored, and believe it or not the knowledge base you get from studying for step 1 still translates into step 2. Don't think you can just take it easy for the first two years because it's P/F.

why not just study for step 1 using my class materials, uworld, b&B (or whatever outside popular resource students use) and then once I'm in M3, I start using a anki premade deck tailored to Step 2?
 
Step 1 is the foundation of your medical knowledge. I've heard so many people say you just dump Step 1 knowledge, and to a degree that's true, but I use so much of it everyday on rotations.

Zanki should be started from day 1 of med school. It ensures that you keep the review count low
 
Step 1 is the foundation of your medical knowledge. I've heard so many people say you just dump Step 1 knowledge, and to a degree that's true, but I use so much of it everyday on rotations.

Zanki should be started from day 1 of med school. It ensures that you keep the review count low
what did med students/doctors do before zanki? surely there isn't a strong correlation between how well of a doctor you will be and how much anki you did. Like I'm not trying to sound lazy and say "what is the easiest way to pass step 1" but the thought of doing 20K cards everyday for 2 years to make the same grade as someone who didn't questions is it even worth it.
 
what did med students/doctors do before zanki? surely there isn't a strong correlation between how well of a doctor you will be and how much anki you did. Like I'm not trying to sound lazy and say "what is the easiest way to pass step 1" but the thought of doing 20K cards everyday for 2 years to make the same grade as someone who didn't questions is it even worth it.
it is not worth it, the minutia differentiating 230 from 250 is First Aid trivia, not the fundamentals you need for CK.
 
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what did med students/doctors do before zanki? surely there isn't a strong correlation between how well of a doctor you will be and how much anki you did. Like I'm not trying to sound lazy and say "what is the easiest way to pass step 1" but the thought of doing 20K cards everyday for 2 years to make the same grade as someone who didn't questions is it even worth it.
you arent doing 20k cards everyday. It would probably bee 500-600 reviews at most by the time you got to dedicated. if you started day 1 of first year it would only be like 30 cards a day which is nothing.

People use to just make their own cards or use textbooks and uworld. Test scores were lower then and did not matter as much.

zanki is just the most efficient way to study for step 1. Its tried and true.
 
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I'm UK and i'm pretty sure potentially 40% of my class and all the years below use Anki and this % rises every year. It's literally a hole medical degree (step 1&2) all packaged nicely for you. The amount of time it saves you to literally have the whole degree at your finger tips and in ready-to-study format is just too good to pass on. It also acts as a bible, doc asks me a question on placement and says go away and find the answer, I can just pull it up in 10 seconds right in front of him or same process if I realise what the treatment or whatever is but i'm not 100% sure and want to clarify while on placement.

I would honestly make the analogy to steroids in sports, before I found anki I would do the same study methods as everyone else, I would watch a B&B vid etc but nowdays in that 20 mins I can get through probably 160~ cards aka high yield facts.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if my cohort, with P/F Step 1, end up with a lower overall pass rate than prior years. There’s a risk of people taking it a bit too easy.
 
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I wouldn’t be surprised if my cohort, with P/F Step 1, end up with a lower overall pass rate than prior years. There’s a risk of people taking it a bit too easy.
I've wondered the same thing
 
Absolutely do not grind 20k step 1 cards as an MS1, that is looooow yield for CK two years later. If you need to do something above and beyond passing classes, you're better off starting UWorld Step 2 sooner (or an alternative Qbank if you want to save it). But really, you can focus on passing and deal with shelves and CK using CK-specific materials during MS3.
Along those lines, do you (or anyone else) know of some good Step 2 QBanks outside of UWorld? I'd definitely like a head start without actually using UWorld too early.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if my cohort, with P/F Step 1, end up with a lower overall pass rate than prior years. There’s a risk of people taking it a bit too easy.
The NBME arbitrarily slides the pass cutoff around based on how people score. They'll keep it roughly 5% failing I think, and can lower the pass threshold back down if necessary.
 
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Current M1, and I decided in October after our Human Anatomy course to go all in on Anking. I currently have about 9,600 cards unsuspended and by the end of my M1 year will have gotten through about 12,000 so a little over 1/3 through Anking's Step 1 cards. Planning on going through SketchMicro this summer hopefully, but other than that just going to try to keep up with my reviews which I anticipate being around 500-700 per day with that hopefully getting small by the end of summer when M2 starts. I'm most definitely not doing this to "be the best student and start studying for Step 1 ASAP." I just genuinely love Anki and the schedule it provides me. Watching Pathoma/BnB then unsuspending cards and doing them, then watching in-house lectures having been presensitized to the material has made medical school much more doable than I thought it would be coming in. Also, seeing how concise the Dr. Ryan/Sattir material is leaves me be far less overwhelmed when I go over the terrible power points my school has.

I think the problem that causes the most arguments with Anki are people being polar opposites and not accepting that there's many different ways to study and be successful. I have averaged about a mid B on in-house exams and a buddy of mine averages more like a low A and he just goes along the school power points, makes study guides as he goes, and it has worked great for him.

My main drive to use Anking is to keep the material at least in my brain so that dedicated this time next year will (hopefully) be easier on me and in a perfect world, I will try to take Step 1 a bit earlier since it's P/F and get a little extra break before starting rotations for M3 next summer.

In hindsight, yeah, maybe I could have done Lightyear instead. But Anking is just so well put together and the organization just blows me away. Anki's biggest downfall is it seems very complex starting out. During my first semester, I think I studied how to use Anki more than I studied actual medical school material :rofl:.

TL;DR Most days I kick back and use my one handed controller to get through my reviews, thinking how in the heck is this medical school. Others thrive just doing in-house material and are killing it. At the end of the day, it's what works FOR YOU. Pros and cons with everything, figure out a strategy and stick with it and adapt along the way.
 
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Along those lines, do you (or anyone else) know of some good Step 2 QBanks outside of UWorld? I'd definitely like a head start without actually using UWorld too early.
Dorain has gotten me a 75th percentile average
 
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