Should NEW GRADS negotiate salary?

[Pharm1111]

What are your views about this?

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[deleted480308]

With the constant talks of salary drops?

 

[Pharm1111]

With the constant talks of salary drops?

Rule of thumb for new grads should just take whatever is being offered that's what I'm understanding nowadays.

My next question would be how low is too low?

 

[deleted480308]

Rule of thumb for new grads should just take whatever is being offered that's what I'm understanding nowadays.

My next question would be how low is too low?

Until you have a higher option? Nothing

 

[rxkrafted]

Rule of thumb for new grads should just take whatever is being offered that's what I'm understanding nowadays.

My next question would be how low is too low?

In my opinion, anything under $45 would be too low for me but you also have to weigh in the benefits they offer

 

[Sine Cura]

On your side: do you have another competitive offer? Can you afford to have the original offer rescinded?

On the hiring side: can they afford to say F U and get in touch with the next candidate?

 

[mentos]

If you have multiple offers and are in the position to walk away from one, then go for it. If you can't afford to lose the offer, then it's a big risk. They literally have hundreds in line behind you. You are lucky to get any job offer these days.

I graduated in '14 and don't know anyone who successfully negotiated with the chains. A few did with hospitals but not sure if that would work in 2019.

 

[JustFillIt]

Absolutely you should negotiate your position. Wth.....

 

[rxkrafted]

Absolutely you should negotiate your position. Wth.....

You're a NEW grad. What leverage do you have to negotiate with? I had straight As in school so I think I deserve more money than that...?

 

[8turkeys]

Is alaska the only "in demand" place left?

 

[sozetone]

Negotiate? now a days? i highly doubt it unless you are looking for a manager spot (which no one wants) and have 5-10 years solid performing manager experience. Then you have something to offer....they can swap you out like underwear.....why would anyone be able to negotiate these days?

 

[mentos]

You're a NEW grad. What leverage do you have to negotiate with? I had straight As in school so I think I deserve more money than that...?

Yeah what are they supposed to say, "I got an A on my 6 week rotation"? LoL.

 

[TerryTerry]

???: You can do better than that or I am going to work with my parents.
???: Good bye.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

You're a NEW grad. What leverage do you have to negotiate with? I had straight As in school so I think I deserve more money than that...?

Yeah what are they supposed to say, "I got an A on my 6 week rotation"? LoL.

1. I went to a “top-ten school”
2. While other schools focused on “clinical” pharmacy, my school focused on “community” pharmacy
3. I have retail intern experience/have worked as a tech before
4. There are pharmacists in my family so I am not “new” to pharmacy

 

[JustFillIt]

Give me a break you guys. There is much more to discuss when negotiating your position with your new employer than the fact that you are a new graduate.

I won’t explain to you how you can negotiate your position (this does not necessarily mean you have to sit down and say “I’m a new graduate and I want more money or I’m going to live with my parents!”)

You should be able to relate to the people that you are seeking employment with, understand what you may or may not be able to offer them, and most of all understand the position they are in. And I guarandamntee you that not all of them are in the position where they can sit down and say “take it or I’m going to hire the next whipping boy in line that will take it like a champ”.

Use your brains people - think, plan, and articulate.

When I was a new graduate (within the year past 10 years) I was not offered a moving package for a job that I had to relocate for. I took some time to understand their position and decided it was appropriate for me to ask for a sign in package to cover expenses. I asked for 10k to sign on for two years in order to cover my family moving expenses. They rejected it upfront. I called the regional manager and I was given the story that there is a surplus of pharmacists, companies are cutting their budgets, etc. I understood this position and I kindly explained my position (I just needed money to relocate) and I asked the regional manager to advocate for me to the HR department - I asked “would you be willing to advocate for me to help me solve this issue of relocation”. He paused for a moment and decided to move forward. Later that day I received an email with a 6000 dollar offer.

True story...

 

[TerryTerry]

Give me a break you guys. There is much more to discuss when negotiating your position with your new employer than the fact that you are a new graduate.

I won’t explain to you how you can negotiate your position (this does not necessarily mean you have to sit down and say “I’m a new graduate and I want more money or I’m going to live with my parents!”)

You should be able to relate to the people that you are seeking employment with, understand what you may or may not be able to offer them, and most of all understand the position they are in. And I guarandamntee you that not all of them are in the position where they can sit down and say “take it or I’m going to hire the next whipping boy in line that will take it like a champ”.

Use your brains people - think, plan, and articulate.

When I was a new graduate (within the year past 10 years) I was not offered a moving package for a job that I had to relocate for. I took some time to understand their position and decided it was appropriate for me to ask for a sign in package to cover expenses. I asked for 10k to sign on for two years in order to cover my family moving expenses. They rejected it upfront. I called the regional manager and I was given the story that there is a surplus of pharmacists, companies are cutting their budgets, etc. I understood this position and I kindly explained my position (I just needed money to relocate) and I asked the regional manager to advocate for me to the HR department - I asked “would you be willing to advocate for me to help me solve this issue of relocation”. He paused for a moment and decided to move forward. Later that day I received an email with a 6000 dollar offer.

True story...

Of course.
Use your common sense.

If you are a new graduate with true niche, make sure you take full advantage of it.

 

[rxkrafted]

Give me a break you guys. There is much more to discuss when negotiating your position with your new employer than the fact that you are a new graduate.

I won’t explain to you how you can negotiate your position (this does not necessarily mean you have to sit down and say “I’m a new graduate and I want more money or I’m going to live with my parents!”)

You should be able to relate to the people that you are seeking employment with, understand what you may or may not be able to offer them, and most of all understand the position they are in. And I guarandamntee you that not all of them are in the position where they can sit down and say “take it or I’m going to hire the next whipping boy in line that will take it like a champ”.

Use your brains people - think, plan, and articulate.

When I was a new graduate (within the year past 10 years) I was not offered a moving package for a job that I had to relocate for. I took some time to understand their position and decided it was appropriate for me to ask for a sign in package to cover expenses. I asked for 10k to sign on for two years in order to cover my family moving expenses. They rejected it upfront. I called the regional manager and I was given the story that there is a surplus of pharmacists, companies are cutting their budgets, etc. I understood this position and I kindly explained my position (I just needed money to relocate) and I asked the regional manager to advocate for me to the HR department - I asked “would you be willing to advocate for me to help me solve this issue of relocation”. He paused for a moment and decided to move forward. Later that day I received an email with a 6000 dollar offer.

True story...

That was a good story. Not being sarcastic. 10 years ago, there were plenty of bonuses to go around. 10 years ago vs now is very different for pharmacy. I really don't see this working in nowadays regardless of compensating for moving expenses... they'll just find some other new grad. Like I said, 10 years ago vs now very different. They might even laugh if a new grad today asked for 10k to sign on.

 

[JustFillIt]

That was a good story. Not being sarcastic. 10 years ago, there were plenty of bonuses to go around. 10 years ago vs now is very different for pharmacy. I really don't see this working in nowadays regardless of compensating for moving expenses... they'll just find some other new grad. Like I said, 10 years ago vs now very different. They might even laugh if a new grad today asked for 10k to sign on.

Ok - I am just trying to respect my own privacy and not give away my anonymity.

Let me restate. I graduated in The last 5 years. And this was a major chain that offered me this. No one laughed, however they did push back. In the end I do feel like “they” felt like it was worth it in the long run. It was very much a take the bull by the horns situation though - they had a super successful pharmacy in a remote location that was turning 400-500 Rx/day with high turnover.

 

[JustFillIt]

Of course.
Use your common sense.

If you are a new graduate with true niche, make sure you take full advantage of it.

Yes! Thank you!

 

[Lubeckd]

Ok - I am just trying to respect my own privacy and not give away my anonymity.

Let me restate. I graduated in The last 5 years. And this was a major chain that offered me this. No one laughed, however they did push back. In the end I do feel like “they” felt like it was worth it in the long run. It was very much a take the bull by the horns situation though - they had a super successful pharmacy in a remote location that was turning 400-500 Rx/day with high turnover.

A lot of internet stalkers going though my profile lol

 

[rxkrafted]

Ok - I am just trying to respect my own privacy and not give away my anonymity.

Let me restate. I graduated in The last 5 years. And this was a major chain that offered me this. No one laughed, however they did push back. In the end I do feel like “they” felt like it was worth it in the long run. It was very much a take the bull by the horns situation though - they had a super successful pharmacy in a remote location that was turning 400-500 Rx/day with high turnover.

I respect your boldness but i don't think i would change my advice in OPs situation. You don't have any other offers lined up and there are many unemployed pharmacists ready to take that position. I would take the offer and maybe in a year, you have some leverage to negotiate a raise assuming you are being productive for the employer.

 

[sozetone]

Right now if you are a successful manager with many years of high volume experience you can negotiate a bit. They know what you can do, and have done, ya know? not many left like that.....they know its a total gamble when hiring a new grad as opposed to someone who comes recommended by their former Dm and has been managing a while. And manager positions are a plenty, i passed up so many in the last few months looking around the market, i realized i could jump ship fast....Nobody wants to manage anymore, and their are not many talented leaders left..... only rule crazy, cut throat new grads. They can barely staff the bench,....lol

 

[wagrxm2000]

Right now if you are a successful manager with many years of high volume experience you can negotiate a bit. They know what you can do, and have done, ya know? not many left like that.....they know its a total gamble when hiring a new grad as opposed to someone who comes recommended by their former Dm and has been managing a while. And manager positions are a plenty, i passed up so many in the last few months looking around the market, i realized i could jump ship fast....Nobody wants to manage anymore, and their are not many talented leaders left..... only rule crazy, cut throat new grads. They can barely staff the bench,....lol

Sorry means nothing

 

[Timbo]

Why would you though? Obviously if you got into pharmacy at this point, it means you really don't care that much about money

 

[JustFillIt]

Sorry means nothing

Successful history as a pharmacy manager means a lot. It just does.. Saying it does not flys in the face of logical reasoning.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Successful history as a pharmacy manager means a lot. It just does.. Saying it does not flys in the face of logical reasoning.

It might help you get a job but last I checked this is about negotiating pay and having experience will not help you. Yes if I walk into an interview and a new grad walks in, I will get the job.... At the same starting pay.

The question is are you willing to walk away from a job?

 

[mentos]

Ok - I am just trying to respect my own privacy and not give away my anonymity.

Let me restate. I graduated in The last 5 years. And this was a major chain that offered me this. No one laughed, however they did push back. In the end I do feel like “they” felt like it was worth it in the long run. It was very much a take the bull by the horns situation though - they had a super successful pharmacy in a remote location that was turning 400-500 Rx/day with high turnover.

Edit: Nevermind I just saw that the OP did negotiate successfully. So you guys are right you should negotiate!

 

[gwarm01]

I've asked for more money for every pharmacist job I've ever been offered. I wouldn't expect a positive result unless you have a very in demand skill set.

 

[owlegrad]

I’ve had two pharmacist jobs and at both places it was a hard ‘no’ for negotiations. I am happy others have more luck but I do wonder if it is company specific, regional variation, or if I am just really bad at it.

 

[sozetone]

I could be gone from CO in 10 minutes to ANY of Florida's major cites. I have already turned down several offers to manage with WAGS and CVS, WM would xfer me in a hot second.....I tested it and it worked well, but i dont want to manage anymore....i did also get staff offerings.....turned those down too...I NEVER got this when i had only staff experience for 3-4 years...never...When they see you are results driven, can make them money, develop associates, and, achieve metrics and goals..... they know they got a strong winner, no taking a chance on staff new grad. IT means a LOT these days....

 

[sozetone]

Successful history as a pharmacy manager means a lot. It just does.. Saying it does not flys in the face of logical reasoning.

Thank you, 100% tested and correct.....When WM fails, or i get approached about performance, I will leave. These other jobs will always be there for me. I believe it was you guys who told me that to begin with!....im not trying to negotiate, but simply move on when the time is right.....i think we all know these wages will NEVER be seen again......not in our lifetime. My money position is strong, and i will take less stress and QOL over money now...i'm getting too old for this! let the millenials figure this out.

 

[sozetone]

Why would you though? Obviously if you got into pharmacy at this point, it means you really don't care that much about money

No i don't anymore, i did for about 8 years, now with the way things are run, i just want some QOL.... any way i can get it... i did my time...

 

[PieRoller]

By all means. If they say the previous candidate is willing to work for $45 an hour, you should offer to do it for $44 an hour.
And that’s where we are.

 

[JustFillIt]

By all means. If they say the previous candidate is willing to work for $45 an hour, you should offer to do it for $44 an hour.
And that’s where we are.

At some point I would no longer seek employment in pharmacy when the wage reaches that low. The level of liability, responsibility, and stress is simply not worth it.

There are other jobs which we would be qualified for. Specifically I have been preparing a backup plan in nursing home administration. Check it out - the skills we have are perfectly geared for this type of job especially is you work LTC pharmacy.

Keep your guard up people and be ready to adapt. You may, or may not, have to do it.

 

[mentos]

At some point I would no longer seek employment in pharmacy when the wage reaches that low. The level of liability, responsibility, and stress is simply not worth it.

There are other jobs which we would be qualified for. Specifically I have been preparing a backup plan in nursing home administration. Check it out - the skills we have are perfectly geared for this type of job especially is you work LTC pharmacy.

Keep your guard up people and be ready to adapt. You may, or may not, have to do it.

I have a friend that took a pay cut to work in "industry" which involves clinical trials. A PharmD is not required, most people have like an undergrad bio degree. She gets to travel on the company's dime, works bankers hours, no holidays or weekends. But sometimes has to stay late in the office if there's a deadline. Seems like a good alternative.

 

[nutripharma]

I have a friend that took a pay cut to work in "industry" which involves clinical trials. A PharmD is not required, most people have like an undergrad bio degree. She gets to travel on the company's dime, works bankers hours, no holidays or weekends. But sometimes has to stay late in the office if there's a deadline. Seems like a good alternative.

I was offered a position like that with a $40k paycut. I don't see the tradeoff being positive but to each his own.

 

[alpha12]

You should always negotiate if you get an offer. I don't think many employers would rescind the offer if you tried.

 

[Jbrl]

I was offered a position like that with a $40k paycut. I don't see the tradeoff being positive but to each his own.

It would be a bit shortsighted to only consider current income. A key difference between a job like that and working in a pharmacy is salary growth over time. Promotions occur every 1-4 years with decent pay raises every year (or you jump to a competitor or in-house for a pay bump). Even with a 40k paycut you'd be at parity by 5 years of experience with further upside. If you contrast that to wage erosion for pharmacists YoY, the scales tip tremendously.

Additionally, as mentioned here - if you have a competing offer, you could negotiate that initial offer 10-20%.

 

[mentos]

It would be a bit shortsighted to only consider current income. A key difference between a job like that and working in a pharmacy is salary growth over time. Promotions occur every 1-4 years with decent pay raises every year (or you jump to a competitor or in-house for a pay bump). Even with a 40k paycut you'd be at parity by 5 years of experience with further upside. If you contrast that to wage erosion for pharmacists YoY, the scales tip tremendously.

Additionally, as mentioned here - if you have a competing offer, you could negotiate that initial offer 10-20%.

Plus you can't put a price on quality of life. Your health and well being come first.

 

[MindGeek]

It would be a bit shortsighted to only consider current income. A key difference between a job like that and working in a pharmacy is salary growth over time. Promotions occur every 1-4 years with decent pay raises every year (or you jump to a competitor or in-house for a pay bump). Even with a 40k paycut you'd be at parity by 5 years of experience with further upside. If you contrast that to wage erosion for pharmacists YoY, the scales tip tremendously.

Additionally, as mentioned here - if you have a competing offer, you could negotiate that initial offer 10-20%.

Agreed, be prepared for a pay cut. I had to work for 22 months in management consulting to the pharmaceutical industry, including getting formally promoted twice, before making the equivalent of entry-level full-time retail pharmacist pay (when you included my performance bonus and profit sharing). The pay cut would also be true for the non-leadership positions in (internal) drug safety and at (external) CROs. After 34 months and my third promotion I finally exceeded retail pharmacist pay for someone 3 years out of school (assuming 40 hrs/week F/T).

Plus you can't put a price on quality of life. Your health and well being come first.

The benefits are exceedingly nice in consulting, especially at a small firm. Company MacBook Pro, company iPhone, corporate card for expenses, work from home two days a week, 23 PTO days, 4th of July week shutdown, Christmas to New Year’s shutdown, $132/month contribution to get health insurance, and 3% 401K match. These all made it easier for me to swallow a $30K 'pay-cut' 41 months ago.

 

[Argentium]

All of which will enable you to work longer than your typical retail pharmacist. But you put in the hours when you're younger and move on to something with better work-life balance later so it will (hopefully) all work out in the end