Should podiatry students call themselves medical students?

[Windom Earle]

If I ask on the Pod forum, I'll get much different answers. I'm a pod student myself, which is why I'm interested.

On one hand I go to a PODIATRIC medical school which is much easier to get into, but once I finish I can really "only" treat the foot.

What do you MDs think?

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[Isoval]

Yes.

I consider podiatry school to be medical school and its graduates to be physicians.

Therefore, I believe you are a medical student.

 

[Windom Earle]

Yes.

I consider podiatry school to be medical school and its graduates to be physicians.

Therefore, I believe you are a medical student.

appreciate that. Let's see what others think =)

 

[deleted480308]

Nope

 

[Gilakend]

 

[lovehate]

Podiatric medical student

When you graduate you will become a podiatric physician or podiatrist.

 

[Lawpy]

If I ask on the Pod forum, I'll get much different answers. I'm a pod student myself, which is why I'm interested.

On one hand I go to a PODIATRIC medical school which is much easier to get into, but once I finish I can really "only" treat the foot.

What do you MDs think?

I think podiatry should be a medical specialty and podiatry schools should be converted into residency and fellowship programs. Podiatry is a branch of medicine and podiatrists are physicians. Due to historical and political reasons, the podiatry leadership decided to keep podiatry separate from medicine.

 

[theonlytycrane]

lol no. you're a podiatry student.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Am I wrong?
But a student wanting to be a dentist says they are a dental school student, not a medical school student.
Similarly a student wanting to be a podiatrist says they are a podiatry school student.
But what do I know...

 

[Goro]

If I ask on the Pod forum, I'll get much different answers. I'm a pod student myself, which is why I'm interested.

On one hand I go to a PODIATRIC medical school which is much easier to get into, but once I finish I can really "only" treat the foot.

What do you MDs think?

The title of the degree is DPM...Doctor of Podiatric Medicine..so yes, they're Podiatric Medical students.

 

[Windom Earle]

The title of the degree is DPM...Doctor of Podiatric Medicine..so yes, they're Podiatric Medical students.

So if I called myself just med student...would you roll your cat eyes?

 

[Microbug]

I think podiatry should be a medical specialty and podiatry schools should be converted into residency and fellowship programs. Podiatry is a branch of medicine and podiatrists are physicians. Due to historical and political reasons, the podiatry leadership decided to keep podiatry separate from medicine.

That sounds interesting. What were their reasons for wanting to keep it separate?

 

[dr_kateb]

Here before this blows up into a 7 page argument like the physical therapist one

 

[chaim123]

So if I called myself just med student...would you roll your cat eyes?

What I think is interesting (and I'd love other opinions) is what do individuals at MD/DO schools say? If medical school is becoming a general term, should we say "an allopathic medical student"? Sounds pompous, but I can dig it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think podiatry should be a medical specialty and podiatry schools should be converted into residency and fellowship programs. Podiatry is a branch of medicine and podiatrists are physicians. Due to historical and political reasons, the podiatry leadership decided to keep podiatry separate from medicine.

There are already foot and ankle fellowships for the orthopaedic surgery part of podiatry, and various other specialties that cover the other aspects of the field. But a podiatrist is a convenient provider to cover the foot care that comes along with diabetes and some other stuff.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What I think is interesting (and I'd love other opinions) is what do individuals at MD/DO schools say? If medical school is becoming a general term, should we say "an allopathic medical student"? Sounds pompous, but I can dig it.

Personally, I find that most of the people who are actual medical students (and I mean MD or DO) typically just say they are med students or that they go to school at [school name]. It seems to be the people in other fields who have to make a show of being in "medical school."

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No. You’re a podiatry student.

 

[Windom Earle]

Here before this blows up into a 7 page argument like the physical therapist one

That'd be a shame if it did. It's an honest question I have.
Personally, I just tell people I'm in podiatry school.

 

[Goro]

So if I called myself just med student...would you roll your cat eyes?

You're a med student in my cat eyes.

Please note that the people who get more bent out of shape on these issues are pre-meds. Finding out whatever reasons why would make for a fine journal article.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That'd be a shame if it did. It's an honest question I have.
Personally, I just tell people I'm in podiatry school.

If you told me you were a med student, then I found out you were in pod school, I'd say to myself, "Oh, okay," and then move on. You're learning medicine. It's just limited to being a physician focusing on foot care. But you're still a type of physician.

 

[fi3451]

I think it's fine. Call yourself a medical student or podiatry medical student. Regular people shouldn't care that much.

 

[hebrewBAMmer]

Alright guys, what should next week's "Should ___________ call themselves medical students/doctors" be?

 

[Isoval]

Alright guys, what should next week's "Should ___________ call themselves medical students/doctors" be?

Premeds?

 

[deleted853480]

Yes they should. Podiatrists are doctors of Podiatric Medicine. Like how mds are
doctors of allopathic medicine, dos are doctors of osteopathic medicine ect

 

[Lannister]

Premeds?

I see so many of these threads on pre-allo, it makes me laugh when people who haven't even gotten accepted to medical school get so upset about other people calling themselves doctor. Who cares?

 

[Lawpy]

That sounds interesting. What were their reasons for wanting to keep it separate?

Sadly I don't know much about the history of podiatry in US. I asked about it in this thread last year: Unsuccessful MD/DO applicant who chose podiatry school... AMA

One thing that does grind my gears- I'd say a chunk of my classmates go for Pod so they can still tell everyone that they will be a doctor, or that they 'got into med school'.
It's pretty sad to be so obviously reliant on external validation. It's also one of the things holding our field back, imo.
Our governing body wants Pod to challenge for the MD/DO applicant pool in the future, rather than riding in their wake. It could happen, but not anytime soon.

So I take it you oppose merging podiatry with medicine? Basically get rid of podiatry schools and just make podiatry a medical specialty in residency for medical graduates?

This is a big debate among our Student Government and APMA right now. Our practicing Pods want this- simply because they want to be compensated at the same level as DOs/MDs for the same procedures (in some states right now, Pods are not compensated commensurate with MD/DO counterparts for the same exact procedures).

In theory, I'm not at all opposed to it. It's what we actually want and what we say our profession as- a specialty just like any other. The main difference being- we work on all systems for one section of anatomy, as opposed to working on one system (pulmonary, cardiology, vascular, neuro, Ortho, etc.) on the whole body.

In reality, bridging that gap is at this point- I just don't see how it can happen. Right now, one of the Pod school is taking the CBS (at the request of the APMA). Only one school is taking it. I've talked to some of these students- the problem is A) our curriculum does not teach to this exam, we have out own boards that emphasize lower extremity anatomy, and B) The students right now are our gerbils- there is no consequence nor benefit of their individual performance on this exam. Let me ask you- if you had an exam, mid semester, that had literally zero consequence in your life- how much time would you devote to studying for it?

The results of this CBS will determine whether or not these students get the green light to sit for the USMLE (again, only as an experimental trial). I don't think we'll get invited for that phase. I think we're failing to prepare, and thus preparing to fail. We have to change our entire curriculum first and make this exam consequential before we can compete.
In addition to that, Pod students generally scored lower on the MCAT than MD/DO students. We're now basically taking a very similar exam a few years later.
What makes us (Pod students) think that we will suddenly perform so much better on this exam?

TL;DR- I'd love to merge Podiatry with medicine, making a specialty. I don't see a tangible way to safely get there without radically changing our entire curriculum and field.

I would say the easiest solution for now may be to keep the APMLE but also allow some pod students to take the USMLE if they desire—maybe with a slight curriculum tweak. Also, the math is saying within the next couple of cycles we'll be through our backlog of previous graduates who needed residencies, and then we have the problem of our surplus residency positions potentially closing if they go unfilled. We should open up extra residency spots to MDs and DOs so that no spots go unfilled. Of course we would need to work with the American Board of Medical Specialties to get podiatry recognized, but it's possible.

I've heard many people, especially older pods, unwilling to make major changes to podiatry as it is. They want podiatry to always be different like that subset of DOs that won't let their profession forget about OMM already. I think that would ultimately hamper progress since a number of these people hold leadership positions in pod schools. In that case it might be easier to do what I said above and essentially start bringing MDs and DOs towards us (into our residencies) at the same time that we slowly move towards them curriculum and boards-wise.

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It's a highly informative thread and I recommend taking a look.
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There are already foot and ankle fellowships for the orthopaedic surgery part of podiatry, and various other specialties that cover the other aspects of the field. But a podiatrist is a convenient provider to cover the foot care that comes along with diabetes and some other stuff.

Agreed, but I think podiatry is a medical specialty in its own right. It's no different from working in other regions of the body and having physicians in different specialties working together on it.

 

[Robin-jay]

Federal government considers podiatrists as "physicians".

I would personally call them medical students. They are just specialized earlier imo.

It sure can be a time-wasting debate though.

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

I agree with everyone who says yes.


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[Pagan FutureDoc]

As long as they aren’t trying to misrepresent themselves I see nothing wrong.

 

[Windom Earle]

Pretty mixed responses so far tbh.

 

[Lawpy]

As long as they aren’t trying to misrepresent themselves I see nothing wrong.

What do you mean by "misrepresent"?

Pretty mixed responses so far tbh.

I don't know why honestly. Pod schools have similar admissions requirements like med schools. You need to take the MCAT to apply to pod schools. The admissions standards for pod schools are lower than DO schools but the students there still study medicine and end up practicing as physicians. Podiatry is a medical specialty and podiatrists are physicians. It's for historical and political reasons that the DPM degree is separate from MD degree. ​

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

What do you mean by "misrepresent"?

Trying to make it seem that they are attending an MD or DO school.

 

[Windom Earle]

Trying to make it seem that they are attending an MD or DO school. .

If you tell someone "I'm a med student", they likely assume you are going for an MD. My hunch tells me that a good chunk of people don't know what DOs and DPMs are.

 

[Isoval]

If you tell someone "I'm a med student", they likely assume you are going for an MD. My hunch tells me that a good chunk of people don't know what DOs and DPMs are. .

DO exposure is becoming increasingly common in the United States. I’d hazard a guess that most people have at least seen the letters at a clinic, on a website, or in a hospital.

Now, do people know what DO means? Probably not. But do they associate “DO” with “doctor”? Probably.

 

[radiculating spines]

There are many podiatrists who essentially function as foot/ankle orthopedists. I work for a huge and very well respected orthopedics group and probably 1/4 to 1/3 of the foot/ankle surgeons are DPMs. They prescribe medications, order Xrays and MRIs, refer people to physical therapy, fixate fractures, repair Achilles tendons, excise neuromas, perform osteotomies, scope ankles, fuse and do arthroplasties for arthritic ankles and interphalangeal joints, etc., etc. If that's not being a doctor, I don't know what is. And if that's being a doctor, then the school that gets you there is a medical school, and its students are medical students.

 

[Resident physician]

If I ask on the Pod forum, I'll get much different answers. I'm a pod student myself, which is why I'm interested.

On one hand I go to a PODIATRIC medical school which is much easier to get into, but once I finish I can really "only" treat the foot.

What do you MDs think?

haha. No way. that's ridiculous. we all know that conventionally the term medical student means someone training to be a physician (that treats the whole body). it's like doctors of nursing calling themselves "doctor" in the healthcare setting. Does anybody think that is okay? I sincerely hope not.

 

[deleted853480]

This reminds of the scienfeld podiatry episode.

 

[Robin-jay]

haha. No way. that's ridiculous. we all know that conventionally the term medical student means someone training to be a physician (that treats the whole body). it's like doctors of nursing calling themselves "doctor" in the healthcare setting. Does anybody think that is okay? I sincerely hope not.

Did you just make up your own definition of physician?

Federal government considers podiatrists physicians.

 

[Geo16]

haha. No way. that's ridiculous. we all know that conventionally the term medical student means someone training to be a physician (that treats the whole body). it's like doctors of nursing calling themselves "doctor" in the healthcare setting. Does anybody think that is okay? I sincerely hope not.

I've made a post about spelling errors and that was considered being the new low.
But creating an account just to post THAT on this thread? Come on...

 

[bobtheweazel]

haha. No way. that's ridiculous. we all know that conventionally the term medical student means someone training to be a physician (that treats the whole body). it's like doctors of nursing calling themselves "doctor" in the healthcare setting. Does anybody think that is okay? I sincerely hope not.

Your definition is lacking since many physicians in fact don't treat the whole body.

Enviado desde mi Pixel mediante Tapatalk

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Did you just make up your own definition of physician?

Federal government considers podiatrists physicians.

It also considers chiropractors physicians and includes the term subluxation in the definition, so I take that with a grain of salt. That said, I do consider podiatrists physicians.

 

[Windom Earle]

DO exposure is becoming increasingly common in the United States. I’d hazard a guess that most people have at least seen the letters at a clinic, on a website, or in a hospital.

Now, do people know what DO means? Probably not. But do they associate “DO” with “doctor”? Probably.

Do they associate DPM with doctor?

 

[Isoval]

Do they associate DPM with doctor?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Alright. Since a poster mentioned this above and no one has posted it, here it is again:

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Do they associate DPM with doctor?

It wouldn’t surprise me if the average layperson assumes it’s no different that being a cardiologist or psychiatrist

 

[Stagg737]

My only issue with them calling themselves med students would be if they got upset if they were called podiatry students instead of med students. Otherwise I couldn't care less.

 

[Robin-jay]

It also considers chiropractors physicians and includes the term subluxation in the definition, so I take that with a grain of salt. That said, I do consider podiatrists physicians.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the federal government, but rather that our own personal definitions don't really matter.

 

[willow84]

.

 

[gonnif]

Shouldn't you be beating that horse in the hoof for this thread?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Shouldn't you be beating that horse in the hoof for this thread?

Now that you mention it, the location of the beating on that horse is really disturbing.