Skeletons in the closet

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Yizzle, out of curiosity, what is your undergrad GPA overall, excluding the 30 credits you took in high school?
 
One time I killed a drifter for an erection!
 
Touchdown said:
You have got to be kidding me, you guys are still argueing after someone told you that an AMCA rep told them what to do. To quote the great Ferris Bueller: You guys are so tight that if you stuck a lump of coal up your butt, in two weeks you'd have a diamond.


Was that directed to me??? I don't think we were arguing. I was just stating a fact which is that the manual said one thing which conflicted from the office. I would go with what the manual says to be on the safe side. I remember a few years ago when my former MCAT instructor was applying. He told us that during his application process they required him to even put this one PE class he took in the Navy from wayyyyyyyyy back in the day and that he didn't even remember that class until they caught it and sent it back to him to get the transcript for it.

They find out these things somehow. But I doubt what you did in highschool will affect you because they see trends in grades and if there's an upward trend it shouldn't be a problem.

Now let's get back to the fun posts that DHBVT and Livercod and so forth were passing on........You all crack me up. :laugh: :laugh: 👍 👍
 
remarkal3le said:
Actually, I think you are correct. I'm reading the application help booklet and it says to list everything also. Does anyone mind calling to ask? They may not be on the same boat. The help guy I got didn't seem 100% sure anyway.
Legally speaking it would be a bad idea for anyone else to rely on the response given to this poster, because it may be specific to him/her and not apply to all situations equally. Clearly the instructions manual says differently. You could always call up, hopefully also get the answer you want, and get the name of the person who gave you the info (even better send back a letter or email to him/her confirming the substance of the conversation). That way if you get questioned later, you have the defense of "reasonable reliance", which should hold water.
 
99 percent of you guys are probably not even under the same circumstances as the op. He took some initiative in high school to take community college classes, and he didn't realize at the time that those grades would affect him in the future (he sure as hell took more initiative than all of us!). And then he gets screwed for his work, whereas all we did was take the average high school courses (yes even AP and honors its still b.s.)

Instead of giving a moral pompous turd story, you don't realize the **** he has to go through.

AWHat if someone took say 60 credits in high school (somewhat unrealistic) and got like a 2.8?

If they pulled off a 3.7 after 90 credit hours (3 years of classes) the highest he could get is a 3.34 cumulative gpa. Is that competitive for allopathic school? I think not! So he got penalized for the b.s. that he received in highschool whereas many of you did not get penalized for the bad grades you guys received in high school!

Like someone else said here, talk to an AAMC director/someone up there, get proof through email, and if he says that you don't need to put it on your transcript, to be safe you can ask 2-3 other people from AAMC.

Remember that many med. schools filter out many students based on GPA alone, so this guy is being automatically denied from many med. schools even though it's not right.
 
masterMood said:
99 percent of you guys are probably not even under the same circumstances as the op. He took some initiative in high school to take community college classes, and he didn't realize at the time that those grades would affect him in the future (he sure as hell took more initiative than all of us!). And then he gets screwed for his work, whereas all we did was take the average high school courses (yes even AP and honors its still b.s.)

Instead of giving a moral pompous turd story, you don't realize the **** he has to go through.

AWHat if someone took say 60 credits in high school (somewhat unrealistic) and got like a 2.8?

If they pulled off a 3.7 after 90 credit hours (3 years of classes) the highest he could get is a 3.34 cumulative gpa. Is that competitive for allopathic school? I think not! So he got penalized for the b.s. that he received in highschool whereas many of you did not get penalized for the bad grades you guys received in high school!

Like someone else said here, talk to an AAMC director/someone up there, get proof through email, and if he says that you don't need to put it on your transcript, to be safe you can ask 2-3 other people from AAMC.

Remember that many med. schools filter out many students based on GPA alone, so this guy is being automatically denied from many med. schools even though it's not right.


I disagree. First off, I think adcoms will take into consideration that these credits were in highschool and that most students don't really care much in HS, let alone know what they're going to do with their life or have any idea how the grades might affect them. That doesn't mean you can just lie about them.

I took 36 college credits in highschool, didn't really try, and pulled a 2.90. Will that affect my gpa? Sure. But it only brings me down to 3.6 when all is said and done. Adcoms take upward trends into consideration. Just a question: how many of these HS credist were in the sciences?
 
austinap said:
I disagree. First off, I think adcoms will take into consideration that these credits were in highschool and that most students don't really care much in HS, let alone know what they're going to do with their life or have any idea how the grades might affect them. That doesn't mean you can just lie about them.

I took 36 college credits in highschool, didn't really try, and pulled a 2.90. Will that affect my gpa? Sure. But it only brings me down to 3.6 when all is said and done. Adcoms take upward trends into consideration. Just a question: how many of these HS credist were in the sciences?
that's not what i mean though. i'm saying that a lot of medical schools are not even going to look at his application becuase he may not meet the minimum gpa requirements of the med. school (this isn't official of course, but its well know that thye have cutoffs)
 
dude--

do you really think the people at amcas have the time to call a community college ?? they take what you say at face value.... and believe me medicine is filled with people that know "how to play the game"
 
entropy2 said:
dude--

do you really think the people at amcas have the time to call a community college ?? they take what you say at face value.... and believe me medicine is filled with people that know "how to play the game"

I actually found the AMCAS verification process to be impressively and surprisingly detail oriented. You are deluded if you think that many people get far in medicine so dishonestly. A few do, and some portion of them get caught. Folks are periodically denied admissions to med school or later medical licenses for thinking they know "how to play the game" in the manner you suggest -- fast and loose is not a good game to try and play here. Better to own up to your skeletons now rather then be attacked by them later. People's pasts sometimes catch up to them, and the world gets more and more computerized every year.
 
don't berate me for how cheesey this is, but: if you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance ~george bernard shaw
 
masterMood said:
If they pulled off a 3.7 after 90 credit hours (3 years of classes) the highest he could get is a 3.34 cumulative gpa. Is that competitive for allopathic school? I think not! So he got penalized for the b.s. that he received in highschool whereas many of you did not get penalized for the bad grades you guys received in high school!

It sucks that negative grades in your past can come back to bite you in the ass, but positive achievements from high school are forbidden to be listed. Not that this helps you now, but seems like a bit of a double standard.
 
Law2Doc said:
I actually found the AMCAS verification process to be impressively and surprisingly detail oriented. You are deluded if you think that many people get far in medicine so dishonestly. A few do, and some portion of them get caught. Folks are periodically denied admissions to med school or later medical licenses for thinking they know "how to play the game" in the manner you suggest -- fast and loose is not a good game to try and play here. Better to own up to your skeletons now rather then be attacked by them later. People's pasts sometimes catch up to them, and the world gets more and more computerized every year.



Seriously, I have friends who forgot to put just a simple PE like class from the navy or things of that nature and when they verified it they made them add it.

The thing is they have your social security number unless you've attemped to lie about that too. So they have a way of finding out about these things where grades are concerned. Where ECs are concerned you put contact info but a lot of times they don't check it and take honor for that. However, that is not something worth trying to falsify either.

As an example, here's a story I heard from a friend at USF.

A few years back there was a guy who lied about receiving a chemistry award. The dumb idiot then spoke at a premed meeting saying its ok to lie and that he got away with it, proceeding to tell how he lied about the supposed chem award.

Well one of the students at the meeting reported this to the dean and he got his admissions revoked and then a letter was sent to all the school's he applied to on AMCAS and so he couldn't go anywhere in this country.

Not worth the risk.
 
Like the OP, I did take some college credit courses in high school, and did not do so well in one of them. I DID list all these courses on my AMCAS, and I was accepted to medical school. It digusts me that some of you future physicians are encouraging dishonest behavior, and that somebody suggested looking into how much information AMCAS can obtain when verifying transcripts. Something is not only illegal and dishonest when you are caught. What is going to happen when you are a physician and make a mistake? Will it be okay to lie as long as nobody finds out? This may sound extreme, but doing things that are dishonest now may turn into doing worse things later in life.
 
Ya 30 credits at a 2.8 sucks, but you know what I had a 30 credits at a 2.6 my freshman year, cuz I still had a highschooler mentality. - I don't get to hide those grades. Honesty and ethics aside, you gotta take responsibility for those classes. If you take classes in HS it's cuz you have the maturity of a college student to deal with those classes. Don't worry about the low grades, adcoms will understand, none of my interviewers asked me about my low freshman year grades - although I haven't gotten in yet, lol. Good Luck to ya kiddo.
 
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but consider talking to an attorney, because many times, rules are written by attorneys to begin with, and one can probably help interpret the rules if you are not sure...
 
inverse_scatter said:
No way to prove the "fraud" without a warrant. And no way a warrant can be given out in order to go on a "fishing expedition": A DA must have a reasonable and justifiable suspicion of guilt in order to get a warrant order issued. How in the world is he going to get that???

Well, if AMCAS or a school had a suspicion, among other things this thread exists in which the OP discusses concealing the grades. ;-) (And I assume the addresses are logged somewhere on this site.)

Unless AMCAS tells you in writing not to, just list the classes. If it being unethical isn't enough motivation, not listing them can get you in serious trouble--and any acceptances withdrawn. I know at least at my undergrad there have even been cases of *degrees* being withdrawn when the school much later found out about falsifications on the person's app.

Since I assume you've since improved, that's what matters. You can even spin it somewhat in your favor--how back in the day you were confuised/without purpose/had trouble but you've since buckled down and really know what you're doing.
 
I don't feel the OPs questions had anything to do with not really "knowing" the rules. AMCAS states clearly that courses taken for credit (like those taken at a community college, even if in high school) need to be listed on the application.
I didn't realize I wanted to be a doctor until I finished my undergrad, so I don't think the science classes I took before that should be counted, but that's not the way it works. Come on people, just follow the freakin' rules. I honestly can't even believe that this thread has turned in to 3 pages of discussion.
 
more paranoid bs from this site. Im not choosing a side but i seriously doubt they will find out about some community college credits you took a while ago. There isnt some database that lists all the schools that everyone in the country has attended. Also, since you took these in highschool you could make the argument that those classes go towards your high school gpa not your undergrad gpa and i think very few people would care enough to argue with you.(except paranoid neurotic premeds who are competing with you for a spot in med school)
 
I took a college course at a community college soph. year of high school and honestly forgot about it.

It was never a problem.
 
pagemmapants said:
I took a college course at a community college soph. year of high school and honestly forgot about it.

It was never a problem.


I took courses my senior year, didn't do so hot, (hell i didn't want to be a doc untill after college). I put them on AMCAS, I also got into med-school, but i think it is an awful rule. performance before you actually begin undergrad is just not important.

honestly what exactly is this going to show? that when the OP was 17 they didn't have the work ethic needed to be a doctor?

I would say that the rule is inherently unjust, It places what is likely a commendable trait into a negative light. as another poster said, sure an adcom might concider this a positive thing if they examine it, But if it hurts the OP's GPA enough, an adcom might not see it.

Maybe i just hate AMCAS, because they have run my life for the past year, (and done a lousy job, they lost a transcript!!) maybe i just need to rant, maybe we should all lighten up, its not like he's making something up.

I wonder, if he had commited a violent crime, and been convicted as a juvinile, so that it was wiped off the record at 21, would he have to put it on AMCAS? (not a rhetorical question, does anyone have any actual knowledge of what the state/federal law is on these things?)

I think everyone on SDN should boycott putting anything from HS on there transcript, if it was not used for credit/requirements At the undergraduate level.

FIGHT AMCAS, BOYCOTT YOUR HS GPA!
 
OP:

I have some college classes from HS as well.
1. They will get a HS designation and will be given as such in the breakdown on your AMCAS. Good for us for taking college classes in HS! We wanted to learn! Yes!
2. I ordered an OFFICIAL transcript from my university (with all of the seals on it and everything...so fancy...now I know what all of that tuition REALLY bought)...and they had some units from my community college on there, and I had NOT reported it to them. I repeat, had NOT.

I point out #2 because those units from my city college just "magically" transferred onto my official university transcript, without any help/paperwork/anything from me. I had completely forgotten about it until I saw that note on there.

So check out your school's official transcript. Your junior college might be on there without you knowing about it (even if you DID take the stuff in HS..It boggles the mind). This does not show online for me or on my unofficial printouts.

While I wasn't proud to put my C in Physics into my AMCAS, I am proud of the fact that I TRIED college-level physics while I was in high school. PM me if you have questions.
 
jackieMD2007 said:
OP:
While I wasn't proud to put my C in Physics into my AMCAS, I am proud of the fact that I TRIED college-level physics while I was in high school. PM me if you have questions.


such an honest, personal and intelligent response.


by far the best one yet IMHO

making me look like a raving loon above.
 
I'm really a man
 
windzilla said:
such an honest, personal and intelligent response.


by far the best one yet IMHO

making me look like a raving loon above.

Gosh, thanks.

But seriously, since NOTHING else from HS goes on the application...his question is a fair question...but there is obviously a risk for not including them. I personally made the decision of full disclosure. If those high school grades don't get me into medical school, so be it. If I could go back I would still do those classes. I was so proud of myself out there at the city college, and made some cool friends too. 👍
 
Just reiterating that they will notice that it was done a long time ago. I took multiple JC classes in high school, most with decent grades, but also some withdrawals and got an F in 1 (I never showed...other teacher withdrew me automatically but one didn't.... ooops). Anyways, I listed all my courses and am going to UCSF in the fall.

Be honest and admit you didn't know the system, etc when asked.
 
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