SOAP 2014 Thread

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Which field are you trying to SOAP into?

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stapler said:
DO student that matched into Radiology but not Prelim. Only have 1 interview so far in a prelim surgery. Does anyone know if I would be okay doing an osteopathic transitional year? Also, is it against the rules to contact them during SOAP? Thanks!
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Yes a TRI would work for you, technically you are not supposed to reach out to AOA programs if you are participating in the SOAP until it is over on Friday. I followed the rules last year and landed a TRI in the end. But I know that not everyone did follow the rules and I watched TRI spots evaporate before 5pm on Friday.
 
aProgDirector said:
This is EXACTLY the way SOAP works.

If a program has two open spots, and submits a "SOAP list" of A, B, C, D, and E (5 people), only A and B will get an offer in Round 1. Even if A rejects the offer in 5 minutes, C will not get an offer until round 2. C might have an offer in round 1 from another program, but has no way of knowing whether not taking it for an offer from this program in Round 2.

However, if I have two spots in SOAP and person A rejects my offer in Round 1 after 10 minute, I can call person C and tell them that they will get an offer in Round 2. Then, they have to decide whether they trust me or not, and they have to have not taken a round 1 spot.

If this seems messy, it's why we have a match in the first place -- to avoid situations like this.

So, to review:

A. When Round 1 happens tomorrow, each program will extend offers for all of their spots.
B. Some applicants will get more than one offer. They then need to pick one of them (two if SOAPing into Advanced and Prelim). All of the others get rejected, and go into round 2.
C. Although you could reject all offers in Round 1 to try to get something better in Round 2, doing so is very dangerous as you could easily get nothing. That said, "nothing" might be better than something you'll be very unhappy with.
D. The "ideal" candidate strategy is:
1. If you get an offer from a program you are very happy with, take it ASAP
2. If you get offer(s) from program(s)/field(s) you're unhappy with, you should reject all of the offers except for the one you might take. Then, you wait until near the end of the round to see if you get calls from other programs with offers rejected who tell you "you will be getting a 2nd round offer". Then, you could consider rejecting your last 1st round offer to take the (presumed) 2nd round offer.
3. If you get no offers, then you hope for offers in future rounds. In the past, the vast majority of spots were taken by end of round 3.​
Click to expand...

Can you call/email the Program and ask them if you don't see the offer on round 1 in regarding vacancy? hoping they will tell the truth.
 
aProgDirector said:
This is EXACTLY the way SOAP works.

If a program has two open spots, and submits a "SOAP list" of A, B, C, D, and E (5 people), only A and B will get an offer in Round 1. Even if A rejects the offer in 5 minutes, C will not get an offer until round 2. C might have an offer in round 1 from another program, but has no way of knowing whether not taking it for an offer from this program in Round 2.

However, if I have two spots in SOAP and person A rejects my offer in Round 1 after 10 minute, I can call person C and tell them that they will get an offer in Round 2. Then, they have to decide whether they trust me or not, and they have to have not taken a round 1 spot.

If this seems messy, it's why we have a match in the first place -- to avoid situations like this.

So, to review:

A. When Round 1 happens tomorrow, each program will extend offers for all of their spots.
B. Some applicants will get more than one offer. They then need to pick one of them (two if SOAPing into Advanced and Prelim). All of the others get rejected, and go into round 2.
C. Although you could reject all offers in Round 1 to try to get something better in Round 2, doing so is very dangerous as you could easily get nothing. That said, "nothing" might be better than something you'll be very unhappy with.
D. The "ideal" candidate strategy is:
1. If you get an offer from a program you are very happy with, take it ASAP
2. If you get offer(s) from program(s)/field(s) you're unhappy with, you should reject all of the offers except for the one you might take. Then, you wait until near the end of the round to see if you get calls from other programs with offers rejected who tell you "you will be getting a 2nd round offer". Then, you could consider rejecting your last 1st round offer to take the (presumed) 2nd round offer.
3. If you get no offers, then you hope for offers in future rounds. In the past, the vast majority of spots were taken by end of round 3.​
Click to expand...

Thank you for explaining this stressful process. Couple questions.
1) Somebody mentioned that the PD can change their list in between rounds. Can you confirm this?
2) Under what circumstances would a PD lie to an applicant about having a spot in the following round?
3) Someone said there is some trouble on ERAS to download applications. Is that true?
4) If you matched advanced but no prelim, and unsuccessful SOAP, do you just get a PGY1 outside of the match? How likely is that going to happen?

Thank you
 
aProgDirector said:
This is EXACTLY the way SOAP works.

If a program has two open spots, and submits a "SOAP list" of A, B, C, D, and E (5 people), only A and B will get an offer in Round 1. Even if A rejects the offer in 5 minutes, C will not get an offer until round 2. C might have an offer in round 1 from another program, but has no way of knowing whether not taking it for an offer from this program in Round 2.

However, if I have two spots in SOAP and person A rejects my offer in Round 1 after 10 minute, I can call person C and tell them that they will get an offer in Round 2. Then, they have to decide whether they trust me or not, and they have to have not taken a round 1 spot.

If this seems messy, it's why we have a match in the first place -- to avoid situations like this.

So, to review:

A. When Round 1 happens tomorrow, each program will extend offers for all of their spots.
B. Some applicants will get more than one offer. They then need to pick one of them (two if SOAPing into Advanced and Prelim). All of the others get rejected, and go into round 2.
C. Although you could reject all offers in Round 1 to try to get something better in Round 2, doing so is very dangerous as you could easily get nothing. That said, "nothing" might be better than something you'll be very unhappy with.
D. The "ideal" candidate strategy is:
1. If you get an offer from a program you are very happy with, take it ASAP
2. If you get offer(s) from program(s)/field(s) you're unhappy with, you should reject all of the offers except for the one you might take. Then, you wait until near the end of the round to see if you get calls from other programs with offers rejected who tell you "you will be getting a 2nd round offer". Then, you could consider rejecting your last 1st round offer to take the (presumed) 2nd round offer.
3. If you get no offers, then you hope for offers in future rounds. In the past, the vast majority of spots were taken by end of round 3.​
Click to expand...

Phone calls to next person on rank list before end of Round 1. Didn't know that was allowed. Thanks for the info.
 
US DO grad applying FM

7 calls total

Two yesterday with one interview yesterday and one set up for Skype today

4 more interviews today

Playing phone tag with number 5

I also feel like the queen of the d***ed right now
 
ooomy said:
Phone calls to next person on rank list before end of Round 1. Didn't know that was allowed. Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...

Can any former SOAPers confirm this is what actually happens? Sounds speculative to me.
 
mommy2three said:
US DO grad applying FM

7 calls total

Two yesterday with one interview yesterday and one set up for Skype today

4 more interviews today

Playing phone tag with number 5
Click to expand...

My stats above. 2 firm interviews with categorical programs. Emails but no firm commitments from two prelim programs. Feeling trashed.
 
aProgDirector said:
This is EXACTLY the way SOAP works.

If a program has two open spots, and submits a "SOAP list" of A, B, C, D, and E (5 people), only A and B will get an offer in Round 1. Even if A rejects the offer in 5 minutes, C will not get an offer until round 2. C might have an offer in round 1 from another program, but has no way of knowing whether not taking it for an offer from this program in Round 2.

However, if I have two spots in SOAP and person A rejects my offer in Round 1 after 10 minute, I can call person C and tell them that they will get an offer in Round 2. Then, they have to decide whether they trust me or not, and they have to have not taken a round 1 spot.

If this seems messy, it's why we have a match in the first place -- to avoid situations like this.

So, to review:

A. When Round 1 happens tomorrow, each program will extend offers for all of their spots.
B. Some applicants will get more than one offer. They then need to pick one of them (two if SOAPing into Advanced and Prelim). All of the others get rejected, and go into round 2.
C. Although you could reject all offers in Round 1 to try to get something better in Round 2, doing so is very dangerous as you could easily get nothing. That said, "nothing" might be better than something you'll be very unhappy with.
D. The "ideal" candidate strategy is:
1. If you get an offer from a program you are very happy with, take it ASAP
2. If you get offer(s) from program(s)/field(s) you're unhappy with, you should reject all of the offers except for the one you might take. Then, you wait until near the end of the round to see if you get calls from other programs with offers rejected who tell you "you will be getting a 2nd round offer". Then, you could consider rejecting your last 1st round offer to take the (presumed) 2nd round offer.
3. If you get no offers, then you hope for offers in future rounds. In the past, the vast majority of spots were taken by end of round 3.​
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info. Do you know by any chance if PD's interview between rounds? Also when i will be able to send the second round of applications, after 1st round or 2nd round?
 
US grad - S1 S2 in 230s - interviewed and ranked 10 in IM - no red flags - two phone interviews so far. Feeling horrible and ashamed. They were less than 15 minutes. Do you guys have any thoughts on what you will do if you don't match?
 
loyolastep said:
Can you call/email the Program and ask them if you don't see the offer on round 1 in regarding vacancy? hoping they will tell the truth.
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason this would break the rules. How helpful is it going to be? Probably not. Remember that the program can't really tell you anything until someone rejects one of their offers.

iPodtosis said:
Thank you for explaining this stressful process. Couple questions.
1) Somebody mentioned that the PD can change their list in between rounds. Can you confirm this?
2) Under what circumstances would a PD lie to an applicant about having a spot in the following round?
3) Someone said there is some trouble on ERAS to download applications. Is that true?
4) If you matched advanced but no prelim, and unsuccessful SOAP, do you just get a PGY1 outside of the match? How likely is that going to happen?

Thank you
Click to expand...

1. Yes, we can change lists between rounds. People who accept spots in prior rounds are automatically removed. We can add people or re-order the list. If i have X spots open, it's only the top X spots that matter in each round (so the whole point of a "list" is somewhat moot)
2. I can't imagine any reason why.
3. I don't know, I'm not in SOAP. Downloading applications is slow. There was an ERAS upgrade last week -- they were very clear that we should get it installed prior to SOAP. If some program didn't install it, that would slow things down. In our instiutution, you need "Admin Privileges" to install software, so you need to get IT to tweak your account first, etc.
4. You certainly need to try. Someone might bail out of their prelim -- visa problems, failing a step, etc. It's possible that your advanced program site might try to find a spot for you (maybe). If you don't get a spot, ultimately you will lose your Advanced spot.

Untraditional said:
Can any former SOAPers confirm this is what actually happens? Sounds speculative to me.
Click to expand...

It is totally speculative on my part. Whether programs would do this or not, I have no idea. My read of the rules says this is legal.
 
asqwer said:
US grad - S1 S2 in 230s - interviewed and ranked 10 in IM - no red flags - two phone interviews so far. Feeling horrible and ashamed. They were less than 15 minutes. Do you guys have any thoughts on what you will do if you don't match?
Click to expand...

You're allowed and expected to feel horrible. You're not allowed to feel ashamed. Great candidates fall through the cracks every year.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I'm totally feeling dissociation since this all started. Nothing seems real, like I'm expecting to wake up from some nightmare.
 
has anyone ever heard of someone loosing their advanced spot because they couldn't find a prelim?
 
YoungJeezy said:
I don't know about you guys, but I'm totally feeling dissociation since this all started. Nothing seems real, like I'm expecting to wake up from some nightmare.
Click to expand...
I have been staring at my computer for the past 16 hours. I think to myself that this must have been a mistake. The further in the future I think about this process, the worse it makes me feel - graduation (seeing all my friends who have matched). But, I am glad that all of you SDers have been there throughout the day 🙂
 
All y9u SOAPers: hang in there. It isn't over until its over (Thursday).

And it may not even be over on Thursday: I find it curious that some programs don't participate in SOAP and then fill open spots after Thursday outside the Match and SOAP. These may be insider deals, I just don't know, but your dean and other advocates at your med school could be very helpful at that point (people can call other programs on your behalf, etc).

Good luck to all.
 
In regards to the advanced position without prelim issue: Absolutely. The candidate can inform the advanced position PD and they may offer to help. However it's ultimately the candidate's responsibility. If one doesn't have 12 months of an accredited prelim/TY done by start, they are not fulfilling one of the program's prerequisites, whether explicitly or implicitly stated.
 
I am looking at the Match Data from last year regarding Prelim-Surgery. So the number that matched is Pre-SOAP? the numbers seem weird and doesn't add up. Can someone please clarify?
 
Just joined, for the sole purpose of spending the night with paranoid people like me...all the descriptions of seeing stars, feeling like this is a dream, going through motions but feeling out of it, etc. are extremely accurate.
 
10 PM on the East Coast. Time for bed.

Here's hoping that TY spot comes my way tomorrow or I have some hard choices.

Also: WTF surg prelim programs...?
 
Last edited:
Anybody get any strong language from their communications? It would be nice if they could be transparent at this point...
 
who else is setting up an appointment with student mental health? woop woop maybe the psychiatrist will offer me a job
 
No calls no emails!!🙁
Starting to think of tomorrow's strategy.
I know we can send the extra 10 applications starting at 2:30. But does anyone know if there is a deadline for sending in the applications?
 
Detergentttt said:
Anybody get any strong language from their communications? It would be nice if they could be transparent at this point...
Click to expand...

My two categorical interviews said straight up they'd list me for offers.
 
Detergentttt said:
Just joined, for the sole purpose of spending the night with paranoid people like me...all the descriptions of seeing stars, feeling like this is a dream, going through motions but feeling out of it, etc. are extremely accurate.
Click to expand...
yes, we are mostly here to help each other with advice (minimal role!!) and to emotionally support each other🙂
I had to be doing something else all day long other than staring at my iphone lock screen!
 
chudat said:
anybody have any ideas on what to do if we don't end up matching anywhere? anybody have any experience that they can share?
Click to expand...

I'll throw in my 2 cents here. When I applied to the match originally, I screwed up my list big time and ended up not matching. I could not believe it. I cried, was upset, and figured it's over. While it is awful to go through this, even if you don't end up matching this time around, you can still re-apply in a few months and have success. Happens every year. Just make sure you learn from whatever happened this time around and improve it for the next time. But hang in there and don't lose hope yet!
 
Good Luck trm!! Hoping I randomly made a rank list without contact from a program ... unlikely, but anything is possible
 
Anyone know what time the unfilled list will be updated tomorrow? From reading the 2013 thread, it seems like it won't be updated until 5pm.
 
dosap said:
Anyone know what time the unfilled list will be updated tomorrow? From reading the 2013 thread, it seems like it won't be updated until 5pm.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't it get updated between rounds 1 and 2?
 
Hang in there all. Several of my friends had to scramble back in the day. It was horrible. SOAP is not perfect, but way better than Scramble. I'll give you a little reading 'entertainment'.

Back a year before I graduated, two of my close friends scrambled. It was horrible. Each of the people that had to scramble met at noon with the dean. Then each got a room in the library to set up their 'team'. Iirc, at 1PM, we could start. What that meant is this: We had three laptops set up. One connected to a projector. One person (my job) logged on to NRMP (since I wasn't in the match that year, I was allowed to do so for Scramble). I did this as soon as 1PM rolled around. There was the list of programs in front of me. I started calling out programs and specialties. If my friend wanted to apply to it, he said yes and my other friend entered it into a spread sheet on the computer hooked up to the projector. Next, our other friend (that's four of us total) started preparing his application to be faxed to the programs while my friend scrambling called the programs. Can you even begin to think how jammed the phone lines and fax machines at these programs were? Those poor PCs and PDs.

Anyway, this went on for several hours. We saw programs disappear from the screen every time I refreshed the list on my computer. It...was...crushing. The same thing was going on in another room with my other good friend. By 3 or 4PM, neither of them had a position. We packed it up and went home...but not until all of us were in our room together and my two friends lost it and both broke down. Horrible.

Later that day, my friend (who didn't match OB), got an OB prelim position at a mega awesome institution in Cali. My other friend (who didn't match rads) got a great categorical medicine program at a good place on the East coast.

The next year, I applied to Derm. Didn't match despite ranking 15...yes 15 programs. I think I didn't do a very good job of self-promoting (as I alluded to earlier in the thread as to what could be said when a PD asks you why you didn't match). Anyway...horrible. I had to go through the scramble. There were a few programs open. They all were gone by the end of match week...except 1. I suspect the 0nes that were gone during match week were promised ahead of time...totally legal back then. Anyway, I called the PC of the program that was left relentlessly. I got my med school PD, my advisor, a private Derm, and an away rotation attending to all make calls on my behalf.

Well, the week(s) went by. In April, I get a call inviting me to an interview! I went in May....yes, I had to go and do a whole interview day..travel, suit...the whole 9 yards. Fast forward about two weeks...I'm at Panera near my home town, thinking about starting intern year and what I was going to do about my future...bam, call shows up from the city where the program I interviewed at is located. OMG...I was in the middle of ordering and didn't answer the call...I was about ready to faint. I got it together and called it back...no answer! I left a message.

A few minutes later my future PD called and offered me the position. I was ecstatic to a degree that is the complete polar opposite of what is felt during match week if one doesn't match...yes, that good.

Fast forward to now:

My OB friend ended up continuing on at her awesome institution because one of her catagorical co-residents left. She just got an offer for her first OB/GYN attending job.

My friend that took the medicine spot finished residency last year and has a hospitalist job near Washington DC. He travels a ton with his wife in his time off (I'm totally jealous).

I am currently one of the Chiefs of my program and landed a competitive Dermpath fellowship for when I'm done with residency.

n=3...but you get the idea. Things work out...sometimes even for the better.

When you are put through what you are going through now and end up getting what you want, it's even sweeter. Go for it and keep working at it. You've all worked too hard to give up at this point.

Good luck!
 
Hey guys! Just a random question: does anyone know how many people programs call/interview for each soap position in the SOAP? As in, what are your chances of an offer if you had a call?
 
Overpro said:
Hey guys! Just a random question: does anyone know how many people programs call/interview for each soap position in the SOAP? As in, what are your chances of an offer if you had a call?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there is no black and white answer to this. Entirely program dependent.
 
Burnt_toast said:
Unfortunately there is no black and white answer to this. Entirely program dependent.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I figured as much. Just wasn't sure if anyone had a rough estimate or educated guess. Thanks though!
 
I have heard it's possible to get an offer even if the program didn't contact you. Can someone confirm this?
 
iPodtosis said:
I have heard it's possible to get an offer even if the program didn't contact you. Can someone confirm this?
Click to expand...

Possible, in that I'm sure it's happened to someone at some point, but unfortunately unlikely.
 
iPodtosis said:
I have heard it's possible to get an offer even if the program didn't contact you. Can someone confirm this?
Click to expand...
More likely than many on here seem to think, according to my school. This has actually happened quite a few times apparently, so there is still hope for those who didn't get contacted.
 
Detergentttt said:
Anybody get any strong language from their communications? It would be nice if they could be transparent at this point...
Click to expand...

I was called a 2nd time from the only program that called me. The PD said he liked me and hoped we could make a match. Hope this is true.
 
At least its not like the hunger games where we have to kill each other for one spot....
 
Could someone tell me what to expect tomorrow?
I went partially matched (prelim only) and was shocked not to match advanced. I decided to SOAP what was left on Monday and didn't think about it much more until today when I started processing things and thinking rationally and realized that my chances are slim to none for soaping or matching next year and that I would be very happy in rads. I applied to all of the rads programs in SOAP around 6PM today (tuesday). Only a couple of them have been downloaded so far. Did I miss the boat or do I need to be prepared to receive calls tomorrow (i.e., stay home from rotations) morning? If I don't receive a call from a program does that mean they won't extend an offer or will programs send offers based only on the paper application without a conversation?

Will programs have time to review my application tomorrow morning and decide if they want to make me an offer? Clearly I did not expect this to happen and was not prepared to SOAP. Sigh. It's one mis-step after another. Thanks.
 
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