SOAP 2016 Thread - questions, advice, support

[Birdsnest85]

I was told by one program they don't allow people with J1 visas. do you know anywhere that does? Thanks!

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[j4pac]

Aren't their DO spots that go unfilled on a yearly basis? Is it too late to grab one of those?

 

[sshehateme]

If you're participating in SOAP, you can't apply to any DO positions until SOAP ends...so my guess either Friday evening or sometime over the weekend you should be able to apply to open AOA programs.

 

[pipe83]

Aren't their DO spots that go unfilled on a yearly basis? Is it too late to grab one of those?

If they are still open. You can gran those who participate in the match after soap. There are special programs ( like Detroit health authority) that are not tied to the match and you might be able to grab those while doing soap.. If they are any open. DO only can grab these spots. Worth a call

 

[elementals]

I've been lurking this thread and noticed some people asking about chances. This is the report from last year's Match (see the SOAP sections) ... odds are steep but not impossible.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf

For what it may be worth, I tried and failed to match Ophtho last year; we don't have the option of SOAP (unless we want to give up Ophtho), so my only option was to do a year of research. I successfully matched this year and couldn't be happier, so it's not necessarily the end of the road if you don't match this year.

That said... be realistic as well, and take advantage of every opportunity you get. The longer you go unmatched, the harder it gets. Also realize you're going to be competing with people who missed matching to Dermatology, Rad Onc, Ophtho, Ortho, etc -- people don't even try for those specialties if they don't have stellar numbers to back it up. Assess your profile and your odds honestly, decide what you can and are willing to do (change specialties? relocate? do a year of research? change careers?), have a lot of backup plans, and then move forward. And please do remember beggars really can't be choosers; I saw someone ask about their chances in anesthesia (a fairly competitive field) in NYC (a very competitive area) when they're SOAPing for a spot. That is not the right approach when your entire career is on the line.

Best wishes to all of you -- I realize this might've been sort of a brutally honest post, but I really just want to say my piece and help as much as I can. My heart goes out to all of you.

 

[bballfandoctorgirl]

Can anyone tell me how to see in ERAS if a program has downloaded my app? Thanks!

 

[mcl]

If they are still open. You can gran those who participate in the match after soap. There are special programs ( like Detroit health authority) that are not tied to the match and you might be able to grab those while doing soap.. If they are any open. DO only can grab these spots. Worth a call

Applicants registered for the Match cannot accept any position outside of SOAP until after SOAP concludes. Please wait to contact the open AOA programs!

 

[Lucky300]

I've been lurking this thread and noticed some people asking about chances. This is the report from last year's Match (see the SOAP sections) ... odds are steep but not impossible.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf

For what it may be worth, I tried and failed to match Ophtho last year; we don't have the option of SOAP (unless we want to give up Ophtho), so my only option was to do a year of research. I successfully matched this year and couldn't be happier, so it's not necessarily the end of the road if you don't match this year.

That said... be realistic as well, and take advantage of every opportunity you get. The longer you go unmatched, the harder it gets. Also realize you're going to be competing with people who missed matching to Dermatology, Rad Onc, Ophtho, Ortho, etc -- people don't even try for those specialties if they don't have stellar numbers to back it up. Assess your profile and your odds honestly, decide what you can and are willing to do (change specialties? relocate? do a year of research? change careers?), have a lot of backup plans, and then move forward. And please do remember beggars really can't be choosers; I saw someone ask about their chances in anesthesia (a fairly competitive field) in NYC (a very competitive area) when they're SOAPing for a spot. That is not the right approach when your entire career is on the line.

Best wishes to all of you -- I realize this might've been sort of a brutally honest post, but I really just want to say my piece and help as much as I can. My heart goes out to all of you.

Thank you for the honest post and support.

 

[pipe83]

Applicants registered for the Match cannot accept any position outside of SOAP until after SOAP concludes. Please wait to contact the open AOA programs!

Good to know thanks for the clarification!! Might be worth waiting to apply for this spots if is the field you want and you don't get any field specific offers in soap!

 

[KEKE.COM]

Please help me! I reapplied General-Surgery Pre, but no call, no e-mail yet.
I'm Non-U.S. IMG, PGY3, and lived in Asia. So, is it impossible for Non-U.S. IMG to get a GS position at SOAP? Is there anything that I can do now?
My scores are STEP1:234, STEP2CK:234, Every step are passed 1st try.

 

[AnesthesiaHopeful]

First of all, you're a DO, not a US grad. Stop that. You're not the first person to make that error this year and it's misleading.

Second...with a Step 1 score that mediocre, you probably should have gone all in on the AOA match. Water under the bridge for you of course, but a cautionary tale nonetheless.

Third...you're a DO grad. Go grab a sloppy seconds TRI and move on.

Uh we Dont Need this type Of NEGATIVITY on Here. Thanks sooooo much.

On a POSITIVE NOTE, got An FM call earlier. Anyone getting IM calls ???

 

[NotAProgDirector]

After a SOAP interview is it ok to email a place and tell them they are your #1?

Yes, after they have contacted you, you are welcome to contact them back. The strategy in SOAP is somewhat different than in the match. In the match, everyone just ranks whom they want in the order they want, and you can't be hurt by ranking your "reaches" highly. In SOAP, that's not true for programs. (Applicants don't rank anything). In SOAP, if I rank someone highly and they get multiple offers and choose someone else, I end up in the next round -- and by then, there's a good chance that other people on my list will have accepted other spots. Hence, my best ranking strategy is to rank the best people that I'm very likely to get. So expressing interest may be very helpful. On the other hand, simply telling everyone that they are your #1 isn't the most ethical thing to do (but not illegal nor a match violation).

Any idea how it looks to a program that you are reapplying to in SOAP? Didn't get an interview there the first time but am really interested in it.

Well, they didn't fill so they are feeling pretty foolish that they didn't interview more people. So programs will likely review prior applicants. The question is whether they will get "better" applicants who didn't apply the first time -- i.e. people who tried to match in a surgical subspecialty often look great on paper and when they apply to IM/FM/Neuro/Prelim GS etc they can be more competitive than you. But, they may not be really interested in the field. Bottom line is that there really isn't any way to know.

I'm getting really worried, radio silence over here. If we don't get a spot in SOAP, do we just wait around and hope for an opening between now and July?

You would continue to work trying to find an open spot. Maybe someone else will drop out for some reason. or someone's visa doesn't come through. Etc.

If that doesn't work, then you find something to do for the year, keep working towards finding an open PGY-1, and prep for another round of ERAS. Also, ask yourself if there is anything you can do to make your app better.

I was told by one program they don't allow people with J1 visas. do you know anywhere that does? Thanks!

This will be very program specific. Many programs accept J visas -- they are cheap, easy, and unlimited.

Can anyone tell me how to see in ERAS if a program has downloaded my app? Thanks!

There is no such thing (any more) of "downloading" your app. Everything is web based now, and everything is instant. Once you apply, your application is immediately available for me to see. You can't tell if I've looked at it.

 

[drtang]

First of all, you're a DO, not a US grad. Stop that. You're not the first person to make that error this year and it's misleading.

Second...with a Step 1 score that mediocre, you probably should have gone all in on the AOA match. Water under the bridge for you of course, but a cautionary tale nonetheless.

Third...you're a DO grad. Go grab a sloppy seconds TRI and move on.

Wowwwww. Some hostility towards DOs there?
We are, in fact, US grads. Or are there DO schools in the Caribbean I am unaware of?

 

[Lucky300]

I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way. I really cannot not lie that I am a poor test taker, anxiety just gets me. I do truly believe that I am and would be a good clinician, a great team player. Someone with potential. I need an opportunity and I would be grateful. It is unfortunate that the system is set up this way...sigh.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Wowwwww. Some hostility towards DOs there?
We are, in fact, US grads. Or are there DO schools in the Caribbean I am unaware of?

For the purposes of the NRMP, DO students are not considered US grads. It's not hostility towards DOs in general.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way. I really cannot not lie that I am a poor test taker, anxiety just gets me. I do truly believe that I am and would be a good clinician, a great team player. Someone with potential. I need an opportunity and I would be grateful. It is unfortunate that the system is set up this way...sigh.

You aren't the only one. I feel the same way as well.

 

[Tdinker]

Is there any way of knowing which programs went unfilled and elected not to use SOAP?

 

[SLC]

It's not hostility nor negativity.

For the purposes of the match, DO students are considered "independent applicants" and are lumped into that category when compiling match statistics.

Using other phrases confuses that, and the people doing so tend to assume their matching/SOAPing chances are comparable to that of US MD students, which is not accurate.

I agree, though I can also recognize that when people (usually IMG's) ask this question they're usually trying to get at whether or not the person is a fellow IMG

DO's should just make both sides happy and say they're DO's

 

[CaliAtenza]

You can add me to the list of pissed off psych applicants... DO, no failures but low passes on both, good letters, seemingly good interviews, 2 auditions... I played all the right cards. This completely blindsided me. I'm furious but not sure who to be furious with (stage 3 of grief perhaps).

SOAPing to tons of FM, a few IM, and a few neuro. Only 4 FM calls so far - out of 45 total applications... WTF!!!

I'm SOAPing to similar programs as you and I have zero calls.

 

[NeoYo]

I did not receive any phone calls yesterday or as of yet today, until what time can i expect for programs to contact me?

 

[imgsania]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being ranked without receiving a phone call at least?

 

[CaliAtenza]

I did not receive any phone calls yesterday or as of yet today, until what time can i expect for programs to contact me?

From what I know it could be any time but I think the time frame would be over by the evening.

 

[Egghead34]

.

 

[Benedict Arnold]

Do you think that the positions open at "good" schools are worth using applications on? Or do you think they just have them there because they didn't like any of the applicants who applied?

 

[deleted284725]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being ranked without receiving a phone call at least?

I've heard that some programs just look at applications and don't make phone calls. Probably just prelim programs if that's true.

 

[ssi]

Quick question.

unmatched ortho candidate here with a 241 step score. Applied to all surgery prelim spots. Realized just now that my transcript and board scores were not sent to the soap programs i applied to. They're now assigned of course.

Anyone know if it's be okay to email them and let them know I didn't realize they weren't assigned but now they are. Otherwise i think I've missed out on first round which would be insane.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[soapingit]

I've heard that some programs just look at applications and don't make phone calls. Probably just prelim programs if that's true.

That's all I can hope for at this point, haha

 

[Okone]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being ranked without receiving a phone call at least?

I combed through all the SOAP threads from prior years earlier today since I wasn't getting any calls and needed something to fill my time (*cue nervous laughter*)

Based on previous years, these are the sorts of things I got the feel for:
--About 30% of US MDs who enter the SOAP end up finding a match, the majority (>90%) of people who find matches find one in the first 3 rounds. Round 4 and 5 are extremely small, there are just a dozen or so spots open for grabs in round 5, as opposed to the several hundreds open in round one and two.
--People generally got 2 offers for every 5 phone interviews they got.
--People with 5 or so offers often stated that one of them was from a place they never even interviewed or called. So it is possible to get an offer without an interview, but that's <20% of the offers that go out.

 

[speedtoinfinity]

Quick question.

unmatched ortho candidate here with a 241 step score. Applied to all surgery prelim spots. Realized just now that my transcript and board scores were not sent to the soap programs i applied to. They're now assigned of course.

Anyone know if it's be okay to email them and let them know I didn't realize they weren't assigned but now they are. Otherwise i think I've missed out on first round which would be insane.

Good luck to everyone!

I had the same issue, but quickly realized that yesterday evening. I am so frustrated at the ERAS site as well. It is so NOT user friendly (with so many clicks to submit just one damn application) and it crashes so much... They can do better with all the money they charge!

 

[Benedict Arnold]

Anybody else want to cry? :'(

 

[SurgeonPGY-0]

Has anyone been offered a match during soap without being interviewed or contacted? Or not possible...

 

[ssi]

I combed through all the SOAP threads from prior years earlier today since I wasn't getting any calls and needed something to fill my time (*cue nervous laughter*)

Based on previous years, these are the sorts of things I got the feel for:
--About 30% of US MDs who enter the SOAP end up finding a match, the majority (>90%) of people who find matches find one in the first 3 rounds. Round 4 and 5 are extremely small, there are just a dozen or so spots open for grabs in round 5, as opposed to the several hundreds open in round one and two.
--People generally got 2 offers for every 5 phone interviews they got.
--People with 5 or so offers often stated that one of them was from a place they never even interviewed or called. So it is possible to get an offer without an interview, but that's <20% of the offers that go out.

Ugh so I guess at this point most of us are out of luck for a year

 

[absalot]

Anybody else want to cry? :'(

Way ahead of you buddy

 

[NeoYo]

Anybody else want to cry? :'(

you still have tears left?

 

[CaliAtenza]

you still have tears left?

I haven't even sat and cried yet; probably will after all of SOAP is done.

 

[absalot]

I haven't even sat and cried yet; probably will after all of SOAP is done.

Anyone want to start our own hospital and do something like the movie "Accepted"?

 

[tariql353]

Ugh so I guess at this point most of us are out of luck for a year

why do you say that? there's still round 2 and 3.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Quick question.

unmatched ortho candidate here with a 241 step score. Applied to all surgery prelim spots. Realized just now that my transcript and board scores were not sent to the soap programs i applied to. They're now assigned of course.

Anyone know if it's be okay to email them and let them know I didn't realize they weren't assigned but now they are. Otherwise i think I've missed out on first round which would be insane.

Good luck to everyone!

You should not contact programs until they contact you.

 

[metches]

I look forward to SOAP being done on Thursday so I can have a drink....sitting and waiting by the phone/computer is driving me nuts.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I combed through all the SOAP threads from prior years earlier today since I wasn't getting any calls and needed something to fill my time (*cue nervous laughter*)

Based on previous years, these are the sorts of things I got the feel for:
--About 30% of US MDs who enter the SOAP end up finding a match, the majority (>90%) of people who find matches find one in the first 3 rounds. Round 4 and 5 are extremely small, there are just a dozen or so spots open for grabs in round 5, as opposed to the several hundreds open in round one and two.
--People generally got 2 offers for every 5 phone interviews they got.
--People with 5 or so offers often stated that one of them was from a place they never even interviewed or called. So it is possible to get an offer without an interview, but that's <20% of the offers that go out.

The best data on SOAP is from the NRMP's presentation to the AAMC, posted on their website: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Signer-NRMP-at-AAMC-2015-Annual-Meeting1.pdf

The SOAP data starts on page 12. It's confusing, looks like there are just over 1000 AMG's without a PGY-1 position. Then on page 14, we see that 2100 seniors were SOAP eligible -- presumably this is a larger number because it includes partially matched applicants with a PGY-2 position but no PGY-1 position. Ultimately 606 seniors had no spot, and 645 got a spot. That's about 1250 people, which doesn't correspond to the numbers on page 12 or the 2100 on page 14. So, basically, somewhere between 20-50% of US seniors who were unmatched obtained spots in SOAP. It's impossible from the data provided to separate those who were partially matched via not matched at all.

 

[hfdgfh9]

"Programs: May begin creating positions for partially-matched applicants."
I'm a partially matched applicant...what does this mean and how can positions be created? what's that take...

 

[gutonc]

Wowwwww. Some hostility towards DOs there?
We are, in fact, US grads. Or are there DO schools in the Caribbean I am unaware of?

No hostility at all. Just stating facts. NRMP separates applicants into 2 broad categories.
1. US Grads of MD schools (which includes Canadian grads of Canadian MD schools) who are M4s...these are "AMGs"
2. Everybody else. This includes DOs, Carib Grads, other IMGs (regardless of visa/citizenship status) and prior grads of US/Canadian MD schools.

Like it or not, you're being lumped into a broad category by NRMP and most PDs that you can't do anything about. I'm not trying to dig on you, just trying to appropriately adjust your expectations.

 

[gutonc]

"Programs: May begin creating positions for partially-matched applicants."
I'm a partially matched applicant...what does this mean and how can positions be created? what's that take...

How are you "partially" matched? Because that matters.

Advanced without prelim? Your advanced program (and med school...assuming AMG status) should start trying to find you a prelim spot. This is where spots can be created.

Prelim without advanced? Sorry man...nobody cares. If you're lucky, the one thing you can hope to be created for you is a program that is not a living nightmare.

 

[matchingfor2016]

How are you "partially" matched? Because that matters.

Advanced without prelim? Your advanced program (and med school...assuming AMG status) should start trying to find you a prelim spot. This is where spots can be created.

Prelim without advanced? Sorry man...nobody cares. If you're lucky, the one thing you can hope to be created for you is a program that is not a living nightmare.

I have an additional question to this. How can an advanced program know to create a spot for their candidate if the applicant is not allowed to contact any programs that did not initiate contact with them? Don't the advanced programs find out who they matched on Friday with everyone else?

 

[SLC]

No hostility at all. Just stating facts. NRMP separates applicants into 2 broad categories.
1. US Grads of MD schools (which includes Canadian grads of Canadian MD schools) who are M4s...these are "AMGs"
2. Everybody else. This includes DOs, Carib Grads, other IMGs (regardless of visa/citizenship status) and prior grads of US/Canadian MD schools.

Like it or not, you're being lumped into a broad category by NRMP and most PDs that you can't do anything about. I'm not trying to dig on you, just trying to appropriately adjust your expectations.

This is spot on.

But just know, DO's as a group (in my experience) tend to do better in the match and in SOAP than their independent status would indicate. That is indeed a very broad category that doesn't accurately reflect the DO specific statistics.

 

[gutonc]

I have an additional question to this. How can an advanced program know to create a spot for their candidate if the applicant is not allowed to contact any programs that did not initiate contact with them? Don't the advanced programs find out who they matched on Friday with everyone else?

The only "no contact" rule is related to programs that are in SOAP. If you matched advanced but not prelim, you have a couple of options.

1. You should have been in contact with your home prelim programs 15 seconds after learning you didn't have a PGY spot. You can't go back in time, but if you haven't already done so, you should do this now.

2. You can/should have call(ed) NRMP as soon as you found out that you matched advanced without prelim to ask the city where you matched advanced (they will more than likely tell you the city, if they don't call back 20 minute later and hope to get someone else who will, lather/rinse/repeat as needed). Then cold call every IM/GS/TY program in that city to ask about a spot. If you only applied to one program in that city, call the advanced PD of that program and ask for help.

None of the above advice is a violation of NRMP/SOAP rules.

 

[gutonc]

This is spot on.

But just know, DO's as a group (in my experience) tend to do better in the match and in SOAP than their independent status would indicate. That is indeed a very broad category that doesn't accurately reflect the DO specific statistics.

Agreed for the most part. But saying you're an AMG (but from a DO school) is misleading.

Pound for pound, for better or worse:
USMD >> DO >>US-IMG (from a legit foreign school)>>US Carib Grad=IMG from legit foreign school>>>>>The rest.

No judgement on skills here. Just pointing out the perception of PDs and committees, which is the only thing that matters.

 

[Lucky300]

Anybody else want to cry? :'(

I also have, and my sig other has, cried. You are not alone! Altho I have gotten 0 calls, I'm happy that others have. Someone's gotta make it right? The system is cruel, but we are in this together.

 

[SLC]

Agreed for the most part. But saying you're an AMG (but from a DO school) is misleading.

Pound for pound, for better or worse:
USMD >> DO >>US-IMG (from a legit foreign school)>>US Carib Grad=IMG from legit foreign school>>>>>The rest.

No judgement on skills here. Just pointing out the perception of PDs and committees, which is the only thing that matters.

Can't say I disagree at all.

 

[CaliAtenza]

Agreed for the most part. But saying you're an AMG (but from a DO school) is misleading.

Pound for pound, for better or worse:
USMD >> DO >>US-IMG (from a legit foreign school)>>US Carib Grad=IMG from legit foreign school>>>>>The rest.

No judgement on skills here. Just pointing out the perception of PDs and committees, which is the only thing that matters.

Define "legit foreign school". Are we talking European schools here?