Socal jobs

[Jelly belly]

I'm new to this forum and wanted to provide my personal experience to give students and residents some different perspective from the prevailing tone of this forum that it is impossible to get a job in pathology.

I switched to pathology after initially matching in internal medicine and did a 4 year path residency at a program in Socal (not a top tier program by the standards of the people who usually post on this forum). During my 4th year, I applied to 4 jobs, interviewed for 2 jobs, got two offers and took one in los angeles at a Kaiser hospital. I am certainly no genius, not even one of the better pathologists at my training institution nor did I do any fellowships (however I wish I had done a surgpath fellowship). I heard about all the offers from current or former pathologists at my training program. I have no idea if LADOC and the rest would consider Kaiser a good place to work but it seems like a decent job so far--neither wonderful nor terrible...I have nothing to compare it to.

As for the other residents in my program, approximately 50% are foreign trained and while everyone passes the AP boards, our CP pass rate is not good. Having said that, everyone who wanted jobs last year, got offers not only in California but in LA or close by. These offers included private and academic and applied to foreign and american trained residents. Again, I don't know if the jobs are all wonderful in terms of compensation and hours, etc but most people seem at least modestly happy.

Does this mean the job market is wonderful? I don't know. This is just one individual's perspective and I wanted to share it because their is so much negativity in regard to this topic on this forum. I expect the individuals who continue to make sweeping generalizations that the job market is terrible will continue to feel that way, and I don't think I'm in a position to refute their claims. However, I believe the perception is that Socal is a difficult place to get a pathology job and yet residents like me and my colleagues who trained at local non top-tier programs do get job offers.

Lastly, in my admittedly limited experience, american trained, english speaking residents do appear to have a significant advantage in obtaining the so-called better jobs, but this is a substantial generalization and I've seen foreign trained residents get partner track positions in this area as well. When interviewing and deciding on programs ask if the program director actively helps graduating residents in their job search...our program director and many of the attendings were and are instrumental in our job searches and it makes an incredible difference.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[djmd]

I have no idea if LADOC and the rest would consider Kaiser a good place to work but it seems like a decent job so far--neither wonderful nor terrible...I have nothing to compare it to.

I will clear that up for you.. No.


No, he does not.

 

[yaah]

I'm new to this forum and wanted to provide my personal experience to give students and residents some different perspective from the prevailing tone of this forum that it is impossible to get a job in pathology.

Thank you for your comments, and we are always glad to see different viewpoints and particularly interested in seeing post-residency experiences. However, I remain ever confused about how people get the impression that the "prevailing tone of this forum is that it is impossible to get a job." There are quite a few posters who say the job market stinks or alternatively that it is not great. But as I and others have posted, many people seem to have not much trouble getting a job in the place they want doing what they want.

So as always, I encourage everyone to listen to many different arguments, don't treat anecdotal evidence as fact, don't assume that gloom and doom posts are the only way to look at things, etc. But don't ignore them either. In short, use your own judgement.

 

[LADoc00]

I will clear that up for you.. No.


No, he does not.

Thanks, DJMD for adding that. Yeah the good ol' KP medical grp is an interesting world. By coincidence I just had sushi with a pathologist who worked in it for a short period of time and whos wife is still a KP provider...

I could write alot of stuff on it, but suffice it to say KP is a complete and utter screw job for some types of docs (path, radiology and rad onc would be 3) and awesome for other types of specialities (obgyn being the big one).

Would I work there? No. Not even in the short term. But that doesnt mean there arent people who cant live in such a culture. This pathologist was explaining that KP people live in a different anti-entreprenurial world similar to what county/VA docs might experience although it is different in that you know there is some group of KP suits making real $$$ at the HQ and that might grind on you.

I will add, from my pokings around the highest compensated practicing pathologist in the whole KP system might earn in a year what some private big whigs pull down in month.

Think about this...Kaiser spends HUNDREDS of millions per year on executive level management consults who earn more than their top neurosurgeon. The amount of income being siphoned from the physicians is mind boggling.

 

[docbiohazard]

I can easily see how the OP would say the prevailing tone of the posts here is negative, because typically the negative outlook posts are very strident and involve a lot of math (math is hard), whereas the positive posts usually amount to "Well, I know residents who got jobs and they didn't have problems." This is the first time I can remember a post where someone said "I personally went to program X, studied Y, and got job Z for better or for worse.." so, I thank Jelly belly for coming and posting it, even though she most assuredly knew she'd be getting snarked at faster than she could sign out a TA...

BH

 

[trent05]

Thanks to Jelly Belly for sharing your success story. It is very encouraging to hear that someone is able to obtain a solid job straight out of a 4 year AP/CP residency, especially in LA. It seems that most people on this forum think it is impossible to get a decent job without a 5th year fellowship even if it is a surg-path fellowship. Did you have prior pathology training? We have one resident going straight out into practice (academics) without fellowship but this person already has previous training.

 

[oncorpath]

JellyBelly....I also thank you for adding some specific information on training and job search results. I understand if you are not willing to do so, but would you consider also adding some info on the salary offers.....feel free to put them into a fairly broad range, but just to give us a general idea? Thanks

 

[dwil75]

I'll add yet another sincere thanks for the concrete and positive information offered by jelly belly. I have a friend who is in heme-onc and she chose to work for Kaiser over a number of other options... despite a lower salary. She loves her work in heme-onc within that system, so I would be interested in hearing more about what it is like for the OP working as a pathogist there. I'd also personally love to hear about other such real life, non-negative job-hunting experiences from those who are recently out of residency, including general terms of the job offers (responsibilities, full vs. part time, vacation, ballpark salary ranges, etc) if anyone would be willing to share.

 

[mlw03]

hopefully we'll see a lot more concrete stories about job-hunting experience in the next few years. it seems like the more senior members of this forum are mostly upper level residents at this point. so presumably they'll be doing fellowships and looking for jobs over the next 2-3 years at most. SDN really took off a few years ago, so there's just not that many young attendings/private practice people who got into SDN during their residency (or in my case med school) days. i'll add another thank you to the original poster for sharing their experience with all of us.

 

[TypicalTuesday]

...just echoing the thoughts of others, but I would really like to know more specifically about the hours, salary, benefits and general atmosphere of your location. Thanks.

 

[Jelly belly]

It's hard to provide real exact specifics because you never know who is reading these posts but here is some info.

I actually wanted to work at Kaiser although it's hard for many to believe. The hours are very good (I don't leave at 2 or 3 like when on CP in residency but the hours are very fair with my weekends off). The call has been very nice so far as well. I'm on call about 1 day during the week (occasionally 2 days) and one weekend out of 5. On my call days I get on average 1-3 frozens and supposedly we get called in a few times/year (what they tell me since I haven't been here long). The workload varies considerably depending on the Kaiser. You sign out almost every day unless you have CP responsibilities, etc and you average 20-40 cases/day most of which are biopsies...academics offers much heavier weeks but then you get a few weeks off of signing out...just depends what you are looking for.

In terms of salary, I can only provide a range of 150,000 to 250,000 to start depending on fellowships and experience (in LA). This may be quite low compared to private practice (I don't know as I never really looked) but keep in mind your malpractice is covered, all of your health care costs including your family are 100% covered and they have multiple pension plans for when you retire. In addition, there seems to be ample opportunity to do extra work for extra pay (some pathologists make a substantial amount of extra money doing this) and this is not factored in when salaries are discussed.

LADOC was right in that Kaiser fits somewhere between private practice and a county/VA job and that you can probably make more money elsewhere. It works for me because I think the money is okay (not great) and I like to spend time with my family (this is why I switched to path in the first place!). Also, I'm not interested in becoming the next big time pathologist...just want to be a good one.

I had no previous path background, did one year of internal med, hated it and was fortunate to end up in a path program that suited me great. I did 4 years and then got a job. I would encourage people of a like mind to strongly consider a surg fellowship or better yet, 1 year of a specialty surg fellowship, not because you need it to get a job but it helps you become more confident and people will challenge you quite a bit in your first years.

Hope that helps some. Good luck to you all.

 

[dwil75]

What a great post, thanks so much for sharing!

 

[LADoc00]

Jelly-
nice summary. I think for me the biggest + of Kaiser is the ability to work part time 4-days/wk. Perma 3day weekends are very nice, especially if your salary is still touching down in the 200K range.

Also, if you have no skill in business OR interest in such, it would be nice.

Retirement benefits are nice as well, no question.

In terms of schedule, I run a practice and work usually from 8-4, sometimes more like 9-4 and typically take 2-3 Fridays off a month. I havent had to come in on the weekend for about a year. I interviewed with private groups with vacation ranging from 12 to 28 weeks/year. I dont take anywhere near that because Im doing alot of insurance contract, legal and other business stuff pretty much year round.

 

[mlw03]

jelly, thanks for another excellent post. your objectivity in noting both the pros and the cons of your job are refreshing in a world of people claiming extremes. most importantly, you sound like someone who's happy with their situation, and in the end, i think that matters more than anything else.