Step 1 P/F: Decision

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*curses in rank 45
i'm deciding between a 30 and a 45 and the 45 is way cheaper so I'm kinda still leaning that way, hopefully it doesn't bit me in the ass.
Dude. I'm just a guy with an opinion. I do not make the cutoffs for competitive med schools.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the top law school game but hard cutoffs absolutely exist in that world.

Look at the match lists of the two schools. If both seem to have people going to places you have heard of and a smattering of competitive matches then it's probably fine.
 
I mean last time I looked DO school were like 60-80k/year (and rising) and about 20 new ones opened/opening (whats the woot woot guy's name?).
I shudder at the thought of being in the 2024 match as a DO with no USMLE and twice the amount of DO MS4 applicants as there used to be.

Obviously it's your life but the only reason why I don't consider dropping ~300K to become a DO a complete waste was my ability to do well on standardized testing and match ACGME in a specialty I wanted to.

Jesus Christ! You’re right...what am I thinking. It’ll take up to 5 maybe 10 years if I want to live a bit of the good life to pay all that back! That’ll only leave me 30 years of guaranteed upper middle class income!!!

You’ve convinced me. I’m going into business.
 
will having a 2nd degree potentially help with getting aways/residency interview invites?
 
Jesus Christ! You’re right...what am I thinking. It’ll take up to 5 maybe 10 years if I want to live a bit of the good life to pay all that back! That’ll only leave me 30 years of guaranteed upper middle class income!!!

You’ve convinced me. I’m going into business.
Like I said. Not here to convince you. Also your situation is a little different. You are 3 years ahead of present matriculating students and presumably have a step 1 score. If the large private equity groups, insurance companies and AANP have their way, there might not be that kind of salary waiting for the current OMS0.
 
How similar is Step 2 to Step 1?
Not much.

Step 1 is mostly basic sciences (biochemistry, genetics, histology, cell and molecular biology, biostatistics, immunology, pathology, microbiology, behavioral science, embryology, pharmacology)

Step 2 is mostly clinical medicine (diagnoses and management)
 
So for someone that does step 1 in 2021, gets a 270 but applies in 2023....will their score now be evaluated as a pass only?
 
Not much.

Step 1 is mostly basic sciences (biochemistry, genetics, histology, cell and molecular biology, biostatistics, immunology, pathology, microbiology, behavioral science, embryology, pharmacology)

Step 2 is mostly clinical medicine (diagnoses and management)

Sorry, to clarify, are you saying this in a sarcastic tone or serious? Because it seems like Step 1 and Step 2 are very different exams, based on your descriptions
 
Sorry, to clarify, are you saying this in a sarcastic tone or serious? Because it seems like Step 1 and Step 2 are very different exams based on your descriptions
Sorry... I was saying they are different (night and day).
 
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Seems to me lawsuits are just as likely if people are forced to compete against scored with only a Pass. Theres no way a Pass applicant will be treated the same as a 250+ applicant in two years. The Pass is getting indefensibly screwed here, even more so than the 250 who wouldnt get to show it off to impress PDs anymore (which is, after all, the entire point of this change)
I’m curious what your opinion is regarding whether the P/F roll out will be for 2022 ERAS or if you think they will push it back to 2023 ERAS so the changes take effect only with the M0s. Anything swaying your prediction towards either side?
 
Our school had a meeting today to discuss these changes. While they don't know anything for sure, our directors (including a former residency program director) believe that students who receive a score will send that score in when the apply to residency regardless of when they apply and regardless of whether other applicants will apply with only a P/F. They sincerely doubt people with scores will retroactively have them taken away. The NBME is a licensing board and they don't really care about how residency directors will be forced to adjust. They will leave it up to them to determine how to compare applicants with a numeric score with those with a P/F. Take this all with a grain of salt, but that's what they believe.
 
I really don't think that Class of 2023 will have our scores hidden. It wouldn't make any sense to make thousands of people study for a test, knowing to expect a number, only to have their scores hidden after. Because people will study much harder if they are expecting a number and not a P. Also the proportion of people with P/F scores in Class of 2023 will be pretty small..so I feel like there will just be a mix, and residencies will have to figure it out for our cycle. Obviously this is just speculation.

Though as someone who goes to a lower tier MD school, I really hope they show our scores and I get a fair chance at a good residency. Obviously I need to perform well, but at least it's up to me and not to how prestigious my school is :/
 
  • It seems clear that Step 1 was never intended to be used as the residency competitiveness gatekeeper that it's become, and the Step 1 material is of questionable direct relevance, so in that regard, moving to a P/F seems like the right thing to do.
  • Step 2 seems like a more appropriate residency gatekeeper, but the timing near the end of year 3 is really inconvenient for students. At that point, it's very late to switch focus from ortho to gen surg or from gen surg to ortho or plastics and arrange suitable rotations.
  • The way residency applications are currently handled, some 'gatekeeper' function is necessary, and it seems likely that Step 2 will simply become the new Step 1 for them. Seems like an easy enough substitution for residency programs to make, right? Programs simply receive more applications than they can reasonably review, and aside from Step scores, little objective information differentiates most soon-to-be-grads.
My thinking at this point is that until things shake out a bit more, students can either 'play to win' by assuming that their Step 2 scores will be good enough, then ratchet down later if needed (gulp), or play it safe with more modest goals, then use a research year to focus and ramp up their credentials if they get a stronger-than-expected Step 2. More risk for med students...
 
Seems to me lawsuits are just as likely if people are forced to compete against scored with only a Pass. Theres no way a Pass applicant will be treated the same as a 250+ applicant in two years. The Pass is getting indefensibly screwed here, even more so than the 250 who wouldnt get to show it off to impress PDs anymore (which is, after all, the entire point of this change)

A prospective change administered uniformly is legally quite safe. A retroactive change would be practically impossible and legally precarious. Your argument only makes sense if there are no other characteristics upon which to judge the Pass applicant (but there are).
 
  • It seems clear that Step 1 was never intended to be used as the residency competitiveness gatekeeper that it's become, and the Step 1 material is of questionable direct relevance, so in that regard, moving to a P/F seems like the right thing to do.
  • Step 2 seems like a more appropriate residency gatekeeper, but the timing near the end of year 3 is really inconvenient for students. At that point, it's very late to switch focus from ortho to gen surg or from gen surg to ortho or plastics and arrange suitable rotations.
  • The way residency applications are currently handled, some 'gatekeeper' function is necessary, and it seems likely that Step 2 will simply become the new Step 1 for them. Seems like an easy enough substitution for residency programs to make, right? Programs simply receive more applications than they can reasonably review, and aside from Step scores, little objective information differentiates most soon-to-be-grads.
My thinking at this point is that until things shake out a bit more, students can either 'play to win' by assuming that their Step 2 scores will be good enough, then ratchet down later if needed (gulp), or play it safe with more modest goals, then use a research year to focus and ramp up their credentials if they get a stronger-than-expected Step 2. More risk for med students...

The gatekeeper could be a cap on the amount of residency apps one is allowed to apply to. The issue is the fact that programs are receiving SO many applications each cycle that they need something to function as a gatekeeper. But if you're only allowed, say 50 programs to apply to, you'd be much more selective and you wouldn't do a shotgun approach and programs likely wouldn't receive thousands and thousands of applications to sift through.
 
As for the timing. It makes sense that in 1/2022 when the change happens, all Step 1 exams taken after that specific date will be scored as pass/fail. So that cohort of test takers who take it in the Spring of 2022 will apply to residency the following year. That just makes the most sense.
 
Thats the exact response I would expect from a PhD med school faculty member.
Au contraire, young colleague! It's exactly the response you'd hear from someone who is a father to two teenagers.

The comment was motivated by the hyperventilating going on in these fora. Rest assured, I want the best for my students. One thing I don't want to is to see them (and you) all burn out and literally die from Step I mania. Something had to be done, and obviously there will always be unintended consequences. But things also have a way of coming back to equilibrium, and to quote General George Patton, people's worst fears seldom come true.

I'll comment more later, as I only want to make a single response to all the angst, which is threatening to melt my monitor onto my desktop.
 
Not much.

Step 1 is mostly basic sciences (biochemistry, genetics, histology, cell and molecular biology, biostatistics, immunology, pathology, microbiology, behavioral science, embryology, pharmacology)

Step 2 is mostly clinical medicine (diagnoses and management)

I’d say they’re pretty damn similar. I took the IM shelf 6 weeks after my Step 1 and it basically felt like Step 1.5. Step 1 is “diagnosis this -> what is the pathophys?”, Step 2 is “diagnose this -> what is the next best step?” If hemolytic anemia causes a decrease in haptoglobin, can you guess what the next best step would be if you suspect hemolytic anemia? It’s pretty obvious. Plus, the correlation between the two tests is 0.55. Fairly strong considering Step 2 is taken at different times of the year for different students.
 
We aren’t even sure these changes will be made by January 2022. They said at the earliest is when it would happen. Seems like they need to make curriculum changes before this happens.
 
Current 4th year dental student here. I have been following this thread with interest since the announcement yesterday especially because this decision will also be impacting me when I matriculate in to medical school as part of OMFS residency. The current dental boards transitioned to P/F back in 2012-2013 so I thought it might be interesting to speculate a bit and discuss some similarities and differences

1. Most Dental Schools have a traditional graded curriculum with class ranks vs. Medical schools eliminated grading during preclinical years while having clinical grades that are "highly subjective"

Although alot of grading in D3 and D4 year are subjective and vulnerable to simple bad luck (not having the right patients and cases at the right time in order to fulfill requirements), traditional preclinical classes with grades offset this a little. Medical students, however, will be graded solely on their evaluations during their core clerkships which are highly subjective and also dependent on luck (which attending or resident you get assigned to) without objective preclinical grades for buffer.

When dental boards became P/F, residency PDs still had objective quantitative metrics to screen and rank applicants (gpa and rank). However, students from the few schools with a P/F curriculum benefitted immensely from this change. Interestingly, the handful of dental schools that have a P/F curriculum with no ranking are the ones that are traditionally considered "elite" (ie. Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, UCLA), which leads me to the next point...

2. The speculation that "elite" schools will benefit the most from a P/F board exam is most likely TRUE based on what has happened in dentistry

When dental boards went P/F, dental schools with elite names that also happened to have P/F curriculums benefitted. This is because students applying from these elite institutions got the benefit of the doubt even without board scores, GPA or class rank simply by virtue of them being from elite schools. The dental board part 1 used to be the great equalizer until they decided to get rid of numerical scores.

In addition, students from these P/F schools now didn't have to worry about doing well on the boards or stressing over getting that A instead of the A- in school classes. This meant that the new found free time can be used for research and strengthening CVs. From what I can see, residency programs in the most competitive specialties are filled with students coming from the above mentioned elite schools. Not hard to see why PDs would choose them.

Student A from Columbia who passed all his classes (no reported class rank) and his boards with 10 publications and 6 away rotations or Student B from state school with 3.7 gpa (ranked 30/100), passed his boards, one poster presentation, and three away rotations. Who would you choose? When board scores existed, the answer might not have been so obvious.

3. Dentistry has created a separate aptitude/admission exam called the ADAT to compare candidates for residencies while OMFS decided to adopt the NBME CBSE exam and use it as a filter similar to how medical residencies relied on Step 1 (or used to).

The same might happen with the most competitive specialties in medicine, who knows. All I know from experience is that this route just adds on additional stress, expenses, and time commitment to an already rigorous curriculum.

Just some thoughts to consider 😀
 
Current 4th year dental student here. I have been following this thread with interest since the announcement yesterday especially because this decision will also be impacting me when I matriculate in to medical school as part of OMFS residency. The current dental boards transitioned to P/F back in 2012-2013 so I thought it might be interesting to speculate a bit and discuss some similarities and differences

1. Most Dental Schools have a traditional graded curriculum with class ranks vs. Medical schools eliminated grading during preclinical years while having clinical grades that are "highly subjective"

Although alot of grading in D3 and D4 year are subjective and vulnerable to simple bad luck (not having the right patients and cases at the right time in order to fulfill requirements), traditional preclinical classes with grades offset this a little. Medical students, however, will be graded solely on their evaluations during their core clerkships which are highly subjective and also dependent on luck (which attending or resident you get assigned to) without objective preclinical grades for buffer.

When dental boards became P/F, residency PDs still had objective quantitative metrics to screen and rank applicants (gpa and rank). However, students from the few schools with a P/F curriculum benefitted immensely from this change. Interestingly, the handful of dental schools that have a P/F curriculum with no ranking are the ones that are traditionally considered "elite" (ie. Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, UCLA), which leads me to the next point...

2. The speculation that "elite" schools will benefit the most from a P/F board exam is most likely TRUE based on what has happened in dentistry

When dental boards went P/F, dental schools with elite names that also happened to have P/F curriculums benefitted. This is because students applying from these elite institutions got the benefit of the doubt even without board scores, GPA or class rank simply by virtue of them being from elite schools. The dental board part 1 used to be the great equalizer until they decided to get rid of numerical scores.

In addition, students from these P/F schools now didn't have to worry about doing well on the boards or stressing over getting that A instead of the A- in school classes. This meant that the new found free time can be used for research and strengthening CVs. From what I can see, residency programs in the most competitive specialties are filled with students coming from the above mentioned elite schools. Not hard to see why PDs would choose them.

Student A from Columbia who passed all his classes (no reported class rank) and his boards with 10 publications and 6 away rotations or Student B from state school with 3.7 gpa (ranked 30/100), passed his boards, one poster presentation, and three away rotations. Who would you choose? When board scores existed, the answer might not have been so obvious.

3. Dentistry has created a separate aptitude/admission exam called the ADAT to compare candidates for residencies while OMFS decided to adopt the NBME CBSE exam and use it as a filter similar to how medical residencies relied on Step 1 (or used to).

The same might happen with the most competitive specialties in medicine, who knows. All I know from experience is that this route just adds on additional stress, expenses, and time commitment to an already rigorous curriculum.

Just some thoughts to consider 😀

What if residencies just used the NBME CBSE exam. It’s basically the same thing as Step 1.
 
Did you miss the entire beginning of this conversation? NYU, Columbia, Penn etc have 1.5 year curriculums, so their current M1s will be disadvantaged because they’ll be taking the exam in 2022 as pass/fail. This is undoubtedly going to look less impressive when they apply to residency against other T20 students who took the exam before it went pass/fail and got a 255. All other things being approximately equal, is a PD going to look more favorably on a Penn student with a Pass or on a Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford student with a 260?

I’m saying the admin at those 1.5 year preclinical schools don’t want to see their students be disadvantaged in applying to the top residencies, which they probably would be if they don’t have a numerical score and other competitive students do. So they might put up a fight and potentially lead to some changes, but who really knows.
So they can all remain in-house for residency. Oh well lol
 
The issue here though is that the MCAT scale simply switched. It didn't become pass fail.

As an aside, not only will the match be affected, but the fellowship match will be too
The MCAT didn't merely change scoring, it added an entirely new category and changed up the other three.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth on SDN then had the identical equivalent of angst and noise as you see here today.
 
So they can all remain in-house for residency. Oh well lol
Yeah t20 students are definitely not the ones being hit hardest by this. But it will hurt the aforementioned schools somewhat and I don’t doubt their admin is gonna have some choice words at the next AAMC meeting
 
lol, no they don't? wtf...
the other reasons make no sense man. To make step 1 less stressful? you're acting like they already don't realize all this is going to do is shift the focus onto something else (like step 2). There's no way they would not think of possible repercussions when making a BIG decision like this.

Please look up the AAMC A-24 chart for racial information in regards to acceptance. For my GPA/MCAT it's a 65% acceptance rate. For the same grades in the black population it's an 80% acceptance rate.

also please DM me since you think that being black is a handicap. Would love to inform you of my immigrant family background that doesn't get any slack in "creating a diverse workforce" in the most competitive and metrics based field of academia. There's clearly a political agenda in trying to make the physician workforce for competitive specialties more "diverse." They did it with overall medical school admission and now they're extending it to residency. They also go on to cite how your score doesn't determine if you're a good doctor. Then why take the tests? Why take them at all since they're not useful? How do you determine who deserves a competitive residency in the end off that? Is it because we need more URM doctors or because people worked for it without excuses? The current competitive specialty demographic is very white/asian but that doesn't necessarily mean your specialty care is somehow going to be better if your doctor was selected because he looks different.
 
Despite what you think about P/F Step 1, all this does is put a band-aid on a much larger issue. Which is the ever increasing medical student:residency spot ratio.
guess there needs to be more government funding for that but healthcare spending wont be addressed for another year
 
A prospective change administered uniformly is legally quite safe. A retroactive change would be practically impossible and legally precarious. Your argument only makes sense if there are no other characteristics upon which to judge the Pass applicant (but there are).
Is it really safe?

"The NBME allowed students at School X to show exact numerical performance on this metric, rated the #1 in residency interview invitations, while students testing a few months later at School Y were denied the ability to show their performance beyond a Pass. This is a significant disadvantage that harmed their ability to match."

Seems like a solid claim to me. Guess time will tell. A 250 being obscured to be the same as everyone else cant make such a claim easily. "I worked hard to stand out on this test, and now lots of hours were wasted because I got evaluated on only the same things as my competition." Doesnt seem as scary to me.
 
Anyone know any dentists who trained around 2012? Could ask them what happened with their scores
 
Is it really safe?

"The NBME allowed students at School X to show exact numerical performance on this metric, rated the #1 in residency interview invitations, while students testing a few months later at School Y were denied the ability to show their performance beyond a Pass. This is a significant disadvantage that harmed their ability to match."

Seems like a solid claim to me. Guess time will tell. A 250 being obscured to be the same as everyone else cant make such a claim easily. "I worked hard to stand out on this test, and now lots of hours were wasted because I got evaluated on only the same things as my competition." Doesnt seem as scary to me.

A student who knows that they’re taking the Step 1 when it’s Pass/Fail can significantly bolster their application with research, making connections, or early studying for the Step 2 since they do not have to study for Step 1 as hard. Is that not an advantage for them?
 
A student who knows that they’re taking the Step 1 when it’s Pass/Fail can significantly bolster their application with research, making connections, or early studying for the Step 2 since they do not have to study for Step 1 as hard. Is that not an advantage for them?

Agree


Is it really safe?

"The NBME allowed students at School X to show exact numerical performance on this metric, rated the #1 in residency interview invitations, while students applying a few months later at School X were denied the ability to show their performance beyond a Pass. This is a significant disadvantage that harmed their ability to match."

Seems like a solid claim to me. Guess time will tell. A 250 being obscured to be the same as everyone else cant make such a claim easily. "I worked hard to stand out on this test, and now lots of hours were wasted because I got evaluated on only the same things as my competition." Doesnt seem as scary to me.

Read this again, but this time see the bolded changes. This is the what could be said about the scenario you keep proposing with retroactive Pass assignment. Sounds more concerning than what you previously wrote.
 
As an M0 this terrifies me because I was planning on studying for step 1 starting in M1 but now what’s the point? But also what if you don’t and then they push it back 3 months and suddenly you’re getting scored?

you wouldn’t really study much different during M1, just do well in your classes. You really don’t need to start prepping for the boards until M2. You should have more clarity by then
 
The gatekeeper could be a cap on the amount of residency apps one is allowed to apply to. The issue is the fact that programs are receiving SO many applications each cycle that they need something to function as a gatekeeper. But if you're only allowed, say 50 programs to apply to, you'd be much more selective and you wouldn't do a shotgun approach and programs likely wouldn't receive thousands and thousands of applications to sift through.

For specialties with a large number of residencies and large class sizes, this would be viable. But for some of the very small specialties, especially where it's wise to have a 'backup', this would be terrifying. Imagine being a marginal plastics candidate where there are only 175ish programs that take ~2 students each. Do you go 'all in' with 50 apps to plastics programs? Or hedge with gen surg?

Didn't ENT (or maybe Ophtho?) do a mandatory "Why Us, specifically?" section a few years back? If I recall, the following year's applications were way down!
 
A student who knows that they’re taking the Step 1 when it’s Pass/Fail can significantly bolster their application with research, making connections, or early studying for the Step 2 since they do not have to study for Step 1 as hard. Is that not an advantage for them?
My question is: how will a student 'know' how well they did? Now, a person can fail to live up to expectations on step 1, can change their study habits, and rock out on step 2. With a true P/F, how will students know if they are performing at the level they would like to perform at?

WIth that said, if it were me, I would still study as hard as I did for a scored step 1, so that I could minimize the chances that I would bomb step 2 (perhaps a higher Uworld % prior to step 1 would help to alleviate my fears going into step 2?).

It's not like there is suddenly going to be all this extra free time. Students still have to study, pass their exams (which may change from being heavily step-based to heavily class-based), and study for step 1 (which may or may not have the same level of passing). And even if there is going to be extra free time...we all know our medical schools will fill it with "wellness" and other BS. People are making it sound like it's going to be a holiday with nothing but research, kissing butt, and presenting posters. It's still going to be medical school.
 
Didn't ENT (or maybe Ophtho?) do a mandatory "Why Us, specifically?" section a few years back? If I recall, the following year's applications were way down!
I think this is a genius idea. I'm a fan of capping residency selections. But if we didn't want to physically limit applicants, we could emotionally/motivationally limit applicants (if that makes sense?).

I know I wouldn't want to write essays for 100 different programs (for this to work, the essays would have to ask questions where applicants couldn't just swap out the names of programs).
 
My question is: how will a student 'know' how well they did? Now, a person can fail to live up to expectations on step 1, can change their study habits, and rock out on step 2. With a true P/F, how will students know if they are performing at the level they would like to perform at?

WIth that said, if it were me, I would still study as hard as I did for a scored step 1, so that I could minimize the chances that I would bomb step 2 (perhaps a higher Uworld % prior to step 1 would help to alleviate my fears going into step 2?).

It's not like there is suddenly going to be all this extra free time. Students still have to study, pass their exams (which may change from being heavily step-based to heavily class-based), and study for step 1 (which may or may not have the same level of passing). And even if there is going to be extra free time...we all know our medical schools will fill it with "wellness" and other BS.

There’s still UWorld assessments and exams, and like 25 NBME tests... I think it would be obvious if you were about to fail. Personally, my school has tests that are quite easy to pass. If Step 1 went pass/fail, I could just do the bare minimum to pass my school’s tests, do a metric ton of research, and then cram for Step 1 over a one week dedicated.
 
There’s still UWorld assessments and exams, and like 25 NBME tests... I think it would be obvious if you were about to fail. Personally, my school has tests that are quite easy to pass. If Step 1 went pass/fail, I could just do the bare minimum to pass my school’s tests, do a metric ton of research, and then cram for Step 1 over a one week dedicated.
People do this now. I have classmates who Anki from 7-12, do research 1-7, rinse and repeat. Most students at my school don't even look at lecture PPTs.
 
My question is: how will a student 'know' how well they did? Now, a person can fail to live up to expectations on step 1, can change their study habits, and rock out on step 2. With a true P/F, how will students know if they are performing at the level they would like to perform at?

WIth that said, if it were me, I would still study as hard as I did for a scored step 1, so that I could minimize the chances that I would bomb step 2 (perhaps a higher Uworld % prior to step 1 would help to alleviate my fears going into step 2?).

It's not like there is suddenly going to be all this extra free time. Students still have to study, pass their exams (which may change from being heavily step-based to heavily class-based), and study for step 1 (which may or may not have the same level of passing). And even if there is going to be extra free time...we all know our medical schools will fill it with "wellness" and other BS. People are making it sound like it's going to be a holiday with nothing but research, kissing butt, and presenting posters. It's still going to be medical school.
I'm an incoming med student, and I agree, we have to study for STEP, not really knowing whether it counts, AND be super on top of ECs in case that it does count MORE in the event that Step 1 is Pass Fail for us.

So it's like there's this added stress

UNLESS USMLE tells us about their official decision about implementing Step 1 as pass fail before medical school starts in a few months from now

Does anyone have any thoughts on when USMLE will officially say WHEN Step 1 will be pass fail?
 
A student who knows that they’re taking the Step 1 when it’s Pass/Fail can significantly bolster their application with research, making connections, or early studying for the Step 2 since they do not have to study for Step 1 as hard. Is that not an advantage for them?
That's not nearly as concrete and massive a disadvantage as me showing my 250+ and you showing a Pass.

Agree




Read this again, but this time see the bolded changes. This is the what could be said about the scenario you keep proposing with retroactive Pass assignment. Sounds more concerning than what you previously wrote.
I don't follow, the cohort that applies a year later will have the same Pass showing as everyone else in the nation. They can't claim any competitive advantage or disadvantage against any other schools or individuals.
 
People do this now. I have classmates who Anki from 7-12, do research 1-7, rinse and repeat. Most students at my school don't even look at lecture PPTs.

Ok... not everyone has 12 hours a day to dedicate to medicine though
 
In other news, everyone gets a participation ribbon and we all get to stand on the podium together.
The USMLE was never meant to gauge applicants against one another, it was meant as a licensing exam that happened to report scores. It should have been made P/F ages ago. This is the righting of a great historical wrong in medicine.
 
Ok... not everyone has 12 hours a day to dedicate to medicine though
The people who gun for top specialities make sure they have that time OR they are one of the select few who only need to study a couple of hours a day. The process of who gets what will still be the same. It's not like mediocre med students are all of a sudden going to start piling up ortho interviews. The best will always be the best, the average will continue to be average, and the subpar will continue to be subpar.

Note, I'm in no way arguing with you. I just think the supposed benefits of a PF step 1 are being overblown. The top dawgs are still going to be the top dawgs.

I'm just happy it's P/F for the future. I thought it was a ridiculous exam. And it has become even more ridiculous to me now that I am studying for Step 2
 
Any ideas to pitch for how the NBME nefariously benefits from a Pass/Fail switch? Seems to me they stand to make a lot more off selling all their practice forms, and selling preclinical shelves to schools that are concerned about teaching to the step 1.
I don't think there will be a new benefit to the NBME. Rather, to make up for any losses, they'll likely significantly raise the price of Step 1.
Is this gonna end up being like high school again where you join a bunch of activities and clubs you don't care about so you can have a better app when applying to college?
Isn't it already?

For everyone talking about lawsuits: won't happen. At least there will be no successful lawsuits.
 
The USMLE was never meant to gauge applicants against one another, it was meant as a licensing exam that happened to report scores. It should have been made P/F ages ago. This is the righting of a great historical wrong in medicine.

The massive problem is that it should have been changed AFTER a plan forward was already in place. The way this has occurred is very haphazard and will significantly impact multiple years worth of medical students in a very negative way.
WAIT so clarification question, did residency programs have any say in this decision to make Step 1 pass fail?

No not really.
 
The people who gun for top specialities make sure they have that time OR they are one of the select few who only need to study a couple of hours a day. The process of who gets what will still be the same. It's not like mediocre med students are all of a sudden going to start piling up ortho interviews. The best will always be the best, the average will continue to be average, and the subpar will continue to be subpar.

Note, I'm in no way arguing with you. I just think the supposed benefits of a PF step 1 are being overblown. The top dawgs are still going to be the top dawgs.

I'm just happy it's P/F for the future. I thought it was a ridiculous exam. And it has become even more ridiculous to me now that I am studying for Step 2

But who does well is not predestined as you describe. There are students who do mediocre in college and the MCAT, pull themselves up, and then rock the Step 1, aways, medical school in general. There are many who did amazing in undergrad and the MCAT, got into a Top school, and didn’t do so amazing..
 
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