Step 2

[deschutes]

No wonder I did so crappy on the shelf exams during third-year...spent the whole year studying useless, low-yield crap!

Yeah. In 4 lines, the mysteries of NPH vs. regular insulin were unveiled.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Yeah. In 4 lines, the mysteries of NPH vs. regular insulin were unveiled.

Yeah. Throughout all those months, I thought NPH kept referring to normal pressure hydrocephalus!

 

[deschutes]

Yeah. Throughout all those months, I thought NPH kept referring to normal pressure hydrocephalus!

Whoa. Don't hurt yourself

 

[yaah]

Grrr...this reminds me I have to start thinking about step III.

Someone please tell me there is no step IV in the works for the future. I have my board exams too.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Grrr...this reminds me I have to start thinking about step III.

SILENCE! The majority of us are hoping that step III will soon be made optional for path residents.

I heard rumors that they were thinking about instituting a step III CS (just in case that step II CS didn't fulfill its job in promoting compassion in tomorrow's physicians...what a load of crap that is!) and that it will cost $3000 (since rectal, prostate, testicular, and pelvic exams will be tested...brush up on those skills!).

 

[yaah]

I heard rumors that they were thinking about instituting a step III CS (just in case that step II CS didn't fulfill its job in promoting compassion in tomorrow's physicians...what a load of crap that is!) and that it will cost $3000 (since rectal, prostate, testicular, and pelvic exams will be tested...brush up on those skills!).

Please tell me you are yanking my chain.

I blame lawyers for all of this.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Please tell me you are yanking my chain.

I blame lawyers for all of this.

Better wash those hands and double glove!

 

[Mrbojangles]

Thank god I just passed step 3! Although, I wouldn't mind doing one last official pelvic and rectal exam.

And is that the sadistic side of you talking .

For some reason I've gotten away with doing only one rectal my entire third year. Well two if you count the practice session with the patient actor during the preclinical clinical course. I haven't been ducking them or trying to turf them to others but it's just been that way. But I start urology in a few days so that will most likely change. Pelvic exams are a different story.

 

[cytoborg]

I heard rumors that they were thinking about instituting a step III CS (just in case that step II CS didn't fulfill its job in promoting compassion in tomorrow's physicians...what a load of crap that is!) and that it will cost $3000 (since rectal, prostate, testicular, and pelvic exams will be tested...brush up on those skills!).

NO WAY. Please tell me this is a joke. Uuggghh...pelvic exams...*shudder*

 

[b&ierstiefel]

NO WAY. Please tell me this is a joke. Uuggghh...pelvic exams...*shudder*

Yeah, I was being facetious.

OK back to step 2 now...studying for step 2 sucks especially when you're not really all that motivated. Information tends to not stick.

 

[cytoborg]

Yeah, I was being facetious.

OK back to step 2 now...studying for step 2 sucks especially when you're not really all that motivated. Information tends to not stick.

Good, I can lay off the nitro now...whew!

 

[yaah]

Yeah, I was being facetious.

OK back to step 2 now...studying for step 2 sucks especially when you're not really all that motivated. Information tends to not stick.

Shakes fist at Andy

You had me going there for a minute, although you kind of gave it away by saying it was going to cost $3000. Many people would have to take out a second mortgage to get that much extra cash. Or sell about 800 pints of blood.

It is hard to study for step II. I studied during november and december when I had 1-2 interviews every week. All these different cities and hotels, but the one constant was my step II study guide. Ah the memories.

 

[deschutes]

...studying for step 2 sucks especially when you're not really all that motivated. Information tends to not stick.

I thought I'd get SOME studying done this (family med) month - fat chance!

Starting a path elective on Monday, and all I can think of is prepping for Step 2 and interviews.

Life not in order!!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Shakes fist at Andy

Don't be sour now yaah

You had me going there for a minute, although you kind of gave it away by saying it was going to cost $3000. Many people would have to take out a second mortgage to get that much extra cash. Or sell about 800 pints of blood.

Yeah the whole $3000 bit was on purpose...didn't wanna make it sound too real and have people panicking. But you guys and gals are smart, I doubt I scared anyone really.

It is hard to study for step II. I studied during november and december when I had 1-2 interviews every week. All these different cities and hotels, but the one constant was my step II study guide. Ah the memories.

Dude totally. That's exactly where I'm gonna be in a few weeks. The 16 days that separate Step II CS and Step II CK is gonna be crazy! I got 5 interviews in that span. I better be able to read on airplanes and at airports .

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I thought I'd get SOME studying done this (family med) month - fat chance!

Starting a path elective on Monday, and all I can think of is prepping for Step 2 and interviews.

Life not in order!!

You're not supposed to get studying done on Family Med. It's Family Med. You realize that you suddenly have free time and you rather not waste it doing something silly like...studying!

Path electives from my experience are pretty gentle...it's one of those, "it's what you make of it" kinda things. Many at our school use it as a blow-off, study for step 2, month. So it can be done. Our days literally ended at noon but most of us our month stuck around and did something until 4-5 pm. We occasionally did take an afternoon off. It was very flexible is what I'm trying to say. Hopefully you'll find your path rotation to be the same way and you'll get some studying done.

 

[cytoborg]

Shakes fist at Andy

You had me going there for a minute, although you kind of gave it away by saying it was going to cost $3000. Many people would have to take out a second mortgage to get that much extra cash. Or sell about 800 pints of blood.

x pints of blood = 19 plane tickets

 

[b&ierstiefel]

x pints of blood = 19 plane tickets

Nah. Do those PET studies. Endoscopy studies are high paying too except you get tubes shoved down your throat and up your bunghole.

 

[geddy]

Endoscopy studies are high paying too except you get tubes shoved down your throat and up your bunghole.

Wow! You mean I could get paid, too?

 

[deschutes]

Scores in the 99th percentile aside, is it the general consensus that Step 2 scores tend to be an improvement on the Step 1? I have noticed a few instances myself, but wondered if it was sampling bias.

 

[stormjen]

Scores in the 99th percentile aside, is it the general consensus that Step 2 scores tend to be an improvement on the Step 1? I have noticed a few instances myself, but wondered if it was sampling bias.

That's what I've heard, and it was certainly true for me: I increased my score by 26 points! I believe this occurred because I became very frightened of USMLE exams and studied for much longer - and also more effectively, than I had for Step 1. Hopefully this will pay off for me in terms of getting more interviews.

 

[Mrbojangles]

Scores in the 99th percentile aside, is it the general consensus that Step 2 scores tend to be an improvement on the Step 1? I have noticed a few instances myself, but wondered if it was sampling bias.

When I took Step 1 the mean was 217 and when I took Step 2 CK the mean was 218. I did a little bit worse on Step 2 than I did on Step 1 actually.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

That's what I've heard, and it was certainly true for me: I increased my score by 26 points! I believe this occurred because I became very frightened of USMLE exams and studied for much longer - and also more effectively, than I had for Step 1. Hopefully this will pay off for me in terms of getting more interviews.

Congrats on the big improvement! Did you pre-authorize the release of your scores or did you check off that "second box"?

 

[geddy]

Did you pre-authorize the release of your scores or did you check off that "second box"?

Do you know whether programs can look at that box? I checked off the "send them immediately" box, assuming that most good programs would want my scores before they rank me. But now, I regret it, as fear of failure creeps into my thoughts. Must return to studying now...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Do you know whether programs can look at that box? I checked off the "send them immediately" box, assuming that most good programs would want my scores before they rank me. But now, I regret it, as fear of failure creeps into my thoughts. Must return to studying now...

I don't think so; however, I'm sure programs are smart enough to read between the lines. Let's say, on your application, you indicated your USMLE test date was in early November. And they didn't receive a step 2 score in December; they would probably infer that you didn't check off the "send them immediately" box.

The question is, are programs REALLY gonna be LOOKING for the step 2 score? Sure, there are a few programs that require both steps prior to ranking time. But I think if you did well on step 1, they'll probably just be content with that one (of course, you need to have step 2's submitted by the time you start the residency). Especially the more research oriented residencies (where other things would be of more importance than the step 2 score). But if that was the case, the smartest thing to do would be to take step 2 in mid-to-late January such that the scores won't be known at all before programs make their rank-lists (BTW, when are the program's rank lists due...i.e., when can't they say, "Just kidding, we take it back.")?

 

[geddy]

That's what I've heard, and it was certainly true for me: I increased my score by 26 points!

Just curious - did you use any of the online prep courses?

 

[deschutes]

I believe this occurred because I became very frightened of USMLE exams and studied for much longer - and also more effectively, than I had for Step 1. Hopefully this will pay off for me in terms of getting more interviews.

Congrats on the awesome score! I am going to do the predictable and ask that you describe what you did for prep (I remember you mentioned both QBook and NMS and recommended QBook). How long did you study for?

 

[stormjen]

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased with myself, since I felt like a complete failure after Step 1. I'd be happy to describe my study method, but just be aware that I raised a low Step 1 score to a decent Step 2 score; thus, my method might not be good for someone who wants to raise a decent Step 1 score to an outstanding Step 2 score.

To answer AndyMilonakis' question first: no, I did not authorize automatic transmission of my forthcoming scores. I definitely wanted to wait to see what I got first, just in case. But you can bet that I immediately logged onto ERAS to submit the update once I got my report.

I did not use an online prep course. I studied alone from books, for a couple of months, for no more than a few hours a day. I took a very methodical approach, using First Aid (got through the whole thing), Secrets, and QBook. I also began using NMS but thought the questions were poor so stopped after doing maybe 20% of the questions. First Aid was a good review for me. Secrets tested my recall of First Aid material and helped to consolidate high yield material. QBook was outstanding, and I wish I'd gotten through more of it instead of wasting time with NMS. The questions were very similar to the real thing. Oh yeah, I also did the USMLE released questions, but those are much easier than the actual exam.

It feels SOOO good to be done with that stupid thing. I wish anyone who hasn't taken it yet the best of luck.

 

[deschutes]

I studied alone from books, for a couple of months, for no more than a few hours a day.

Good! There is hope for me yet!

Thanks for sharing.

I had a glance at the sample USMLE questions. First question was epidemiology/biostats... ugh. If ever there was an Achilles' heel, that would be mine.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

OMFG this OSCE book I'm using to study for Step 2 CS is frickin thick! Time to get my learn on. Lemme see...so far I got down, "Tell me about your pain?" and "How does that make you feel?"

 

[deschutes]

I asked an interviewer about Step 2 scores. She said she had never seen them provided.

I think a lot of program coordinators are just covering their a$$es when they say that both scores are needed by the ROL deadline.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I asked an interviewer about Step 2 scores. She said she had never seen them provided.

I think a lot of program coordinators are just covering their a$$es when they say that both scores are needed by the ROL deadline.

That is the best news I've heard in a while! Time to put those books down.

 

[stormjen]

Wow, you're actually studying for Step 2 CS? I've heard you just need to be able to speak English well to pass it.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I'm Asian and don't speak Engrish very good so I need to work on my H&P skillz to compensate.

 

[Sage]

Two Questions:

1.) I?ve seen people mention using Qbook for Step 2, is this the Kaplan Qbook?

2.) I have Step 2 CK scheduled in late January on a Thursday. I live in a city with a Step 2 CS office (*counting lucky stars*), and there is an opening on the Sunday following my CK exam, and I?m thinking of taking the CS then. Any thoughts? Too much? Is the CS an exhausting day? If so, I may give myself more of a break.

Thanks for the input!

 

[vetiver]

i used the kaplan step 2 qbank--did a month of it for $99, i think. i thought it was good training for step 2 ck.

the ck exam was very tiring for me, more so than step 1. i think it was because it uses more critical thinking skills rather than just memorization like step 1, and then you have that fantastic extra hour of questions. and i've heard that the cs is tiring too--pretty easy medical-wise, but long with lots of note-writing. that being said, i think you could recover from the ck exam by sunday as long as you weren't planning on studying hard core for cs.

 

[deschutes]

1.) I?ve seen people mention using Qbook for Step 2, is this the Kaplan Qbook?

Yup. It is updated every September. Somebody else might be able to tell you what exactly is updated

 

[EMDrMoe]

Has anyone used the NMS CD? Is it worth buying? Thanks!

 

[stormjen]

I started to use the NMS CD and ended up regretting buying it.

 

[yaah]

I started to use the NMS CD and ended up regretting buying it.

I had the NMS CD for Step I, then realized it was exactly the same as the book they sell which someone had given me (albeit an older version). The step II prep is probably similar. Some people say using a computer version is better preparation because the actual test is on a computer, but I don't think that's very important, unless you are really computer illiterate and need the practice.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Step 2 blows.

Everytime I try to read this damn OSCE book or do Kaplan questions, I fall asleep. On a scale from 1-10, my motivational state is about a 2 right now.

 

[trex92499]

Just my input on step 2, my scores were released on wednesday (day before thanksgiving) and I did well (240). I have already received 2 interview invitations today, both of which stated your application is now complete, etc.
The funny thing is is that I'm still waiting on a LOR, so technically its not complete. So I really do think that Step II will make a difference if you score high.

 

[jeff2005]

I asked the residents at Wash U if my Step 2 would matter (I just took it this week). They said that the PD will consider it since my scores will be available well before Match day. I hope I did OK.

 

[pez head]

2 ck was totally weak. not that i was expecting something lovely, but it definitely could have sucked a lot less. i didn't care for all that beeping and herding.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I asked the residents at Wash U if my Step 2 would matter (I just took it this week). They said that the PD will consider it since my scores will be available well before Match day. I hope I did OK.

I asked the residents this exact question at lunch today during my WashU interview. One of them said he put it off until March (i.e., no scores before rank order list entry). I told him my situation about how my Step 2 is originally scheduled for Dec. 29th (which is no good for obvious reasons) and that I had sent in an extension form which would allow me to push this piece of crap test back until Jan, Feb, or March. In response, he told me to push this back as far back as possible

If you took your clinical rotations and shelf exams seriously, I'm sure and hope you will do well on step 2.

 

[yaah]

2 ck was totally weak. not that i was expecting something lovely, but it definitely could have sucked a lot less. i didn't care for all that beeping and herding.

Now that you have taken step II CS, do you feel you can assess whether you can apply medical knowledge, skills, and understanding of clinical science essential for the provision of patient care under supervision and include emphasis on health promotion and disease prevention, and ensure that due attention is devoted to principles of clinical sciences and basic patient-centered skills that provide the foundation for the safe and competent practice of medicine? (quoted, with some slight alterations to the tenses from usmle.org).

What a steaming piece of BS this whole endeavor is.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Step 2 CS = turd sandwich.

I'm gonna pull off a nuclear carl at the test center.

Two more days! Two more days!

 

[pez head]

Now that you have taken step II CS, do you feel you can assess whether you can apply medical knowledge, skills, and understanding of clinical science essential for the provision of patient care under supervision and include emphasis on health promotion and disease prevention, and ensure that due attention is devoted to principles of clinical sciences and basic patient-centered skills that provide the foundation for the safe and competent practice of medicine? (quoted, with some slight alterations to the tenses from usmle.org).

What a steaming piece of BS this whole endeavor is.

actually, i just learned to walk on my hind legs, so all that's a bit of a stretch...

why isn't there a little turd icon?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I had a dream last night...

I walk into the Step 2 CS testing center and the test staff says that the AMA or AMSA (or pick your own organization...it's not important) succeeded in getting rid of the step 2 CS requirement for medical students. They were hence handing out $1000 cash refunds and vouchers for travel/hotel expenses.

Then I woke up...$@#& I so don't wanna take this!

 

[yaah]

If that happened, there would be a story on CNN or something about a woman who went to her doctor for back pain, and how her doctor didn't listen to her, did a 30 second physical exam, and prescribed Ibuprofen and rest for two weeks. Then two weeks later she shows up in the ER and she has a tumor there. And they would talk about how "the test that ensures doctors have the ability to listen to their patients and do a proper physical exam was just eliminated by authorities due to cost-cutting and other priorities" and lawyers would have a field day.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

If that happened, there would be a story on CNN or something about a woman who went to her doctor for back pain, and how her doctor didn't listen to her, did a 30 second physical exam, and prescribed Ibuprofen and rest for two weeks. Then two weeks later she shows up in the ER and she has a tumor there. And they would talk about how "the test that ensures doctors have the ability to listen to their patients and do a proper physical exam was just eliminated by authorities due to cost-cutting and other priorities" and lawyers would have a field day.

I appreciate the sarcasm. This whole affair is a load of bunk! Shenanigans I say! SHENANIGANS!

Nuclear Carl...here I come!

Plus, blame the above scenarios on the insurance companies and HMOs. It's because of them that we can't order every single frickin test on mankind and have all the objective data in the world to guide our management strategies. Because of the HMO's, more people have access to care, we get paid less for more work, and physicians have to actually THINK about what the MOST LIKELY diagnosis is. OH NO. SAVE ME LORD! Physicians are actually supposed to think?!?!?!?!

***Sarcasm alert!***Sarcasm alert!***(don't take me seriously). I'm at a hotel and I'm bored off my mind (and I had a beer...or was it two or three?...with lunch...no more DTs for me...it's all better now).