Students! What do you want during a placement?

[Coquette22]

We have a lot of students come through our GP clinic. Some RVTs, some undergrad pre-vets, some 4th year DVMs, some VAs. I like teaching, providing they have more than 3 working neurons and they know when to stand back and shut up.

There have been a bunch of threads on what vets and techs want/expect of students. But what do students expect of vets and techs? How can I help?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[SquirrelSam]

To start off, thank you for asking that question! I’m always appreciative of the veterinary staff that contribute to a placement or shadowing experience. I’ve never had a placement at a veterinary clinic but I have shadowed at some small animal practices so I can mention what has been helpful to me as a pre-vet student.

I think my main worry when I first started shadowing was what I was and was not permitted to do. I know there are often liability issues around having students come into veterinary clinics. It’s very helpful to have someone tell you right upfront what you can and cannot do such as petting animals, wiping down tables, etc.

If your practice allows students to help with cleaning or unfavourable tasks, I’m sure your students would be happy to help! I feel bad about taking up time and space while shadowing so I’m always happy when there’s something I can do to help things run smoother even if it’s just mopping or vacuuming at the end of the day.

As for the actual shadowing experience, I appreciate as few awkward moments as possible. Some of the veterinarians I currently shadow will let me look through their textbooks to do some research on cases we’ve seen throughout the day while they do paperwork or take phone calls. That allows me to get a better understanding of what I’ve seen and formulate some good questions to ask when there’s time.

Something else I have found helpful is either reading the patient’s chart or hearing about their background from the vet before going into an appointment.

Overall, just allowing me to be present while you go about your day-to-day business provides ample learning opportunities. I live in a city where it’s very difficult to find a clinic willing to accept pre-vet students so I went into the experience with pretty low expectations. I was fortunate enough to meet veterinarians who took the time to answer my questions, point out cases in their textbooks, draw diagrams, and allow me to be more involved with the animals than I had expected. Other people on here probably have different expectations and thoughts about what they have found helpful. Hopefully I’ve mentioned a few things you’ve found useful!

 

[SkiOtter]

I shadowed primarily at a 2 dr practice and one dr was definitely more into teaching than the other and would explain more things to me and occasionally would do a (not great) drawing to explain something. He also would say different options/ways of doing things, like in surgery he would do a specific pattern because he found it faster or easier or held better than a different, etc. He would also show me things on whatever slide he had been looking at for a cytology or urinalysis or whatnot and tell me what I was seeing in there. Other dr would occasionally show me things on slides but generally would just toss them after he was done looking. (and yes, dr 2 DID explain things when I asked but dr 1 generally did it automatically without me asking).

 

[johnsmith123]

If you're going to be letting a student Shadow you/assist then it is great if you give them a heads up before entering a room/doing a procedure. Most of the vets I have shadowed were good about giving me a heads up before doing any non urgent procedure/client communication. It was frustrating when I was shadowing a different vet who would go into rooms without me knowing. I understand not wanting to get behind with an already hectic schedule but it is very much appreciated when vets/techs just let us know before doing something we might want to observe (with the exception of immediate emergencies since it's not reasonable to take time calling a student over when a patient is actively dying). The aforementioned vet and I just came to the agreement that she would shout my name before going into a room and it was my responsibility to be there in a few seconds if I wanted to observe.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Referring to tech/DVM students on externships, I really just appreciate hands-on experience. I understand it's not always appropriate, but I can't help but zone out when I spend an entire day standing there staring. If you don't feel comfortable with hands on, at least quiz me or something so it's still an interactive learning experience for me. There needs to be a certain degree of hands-on for students reaching the end of their respective programs and that you feel are up to the task (4+ working neurons ). I'm a fourth year vet student, you've read my resume and can see what I've got under my belt already. If the situation allows, please allow me to place a catheter/draw blood/etc. Stand there and watch me if you want, but let me do something!

I also think it's really important that your entire staff feel comfortable teaching as well. I've been to a few places where techs/managers won't even look at me because they don't want anything to do with the student (I guess). If you want your clinic to be a great place that students will recommend to their friends, I don't want to feel like I don't belong or that 90% of your staff would rather I not be there. Some of my best learning experiences have been with techs teaching me actual techniques and practice managers teaching me how they run a clinic. No one has to put much effort or take much time to include the student.

I also wish more places gave students real feedback and progress reports if that's applicable. No one likes being told they sucked at 'x' after the fact.

 

[Coquette22]

I'm a fourth year vet student, you've read my resume and can see what I've got under my belt already.

Not necessarily. In a lot of clinics, the decision to bring on a student is made by owners/management. Most of the staff you interact with have never seen your resume and have no idea what you can do. There's way too many variables (RVT vs DVM vs VA vs undergrad, which year you're in, what have you done outside of school, etc). Unless you tell the staff "Hey we learned to do x, can I try?" Or "We talked about y in my course, what do you think about it?" Don't assume most people in your clinic have seen your resume.

 

[battie]

Don't assume most people in your clinic have seen your resume.

I think she meant a general you where "the clinic" has seen a prospective student's resume, not you specifically or the entire staff. It's kinda weird to me that they don't show you guys what you're getting into with a student, though.

I'd like to know what is expected of me as an extern/intern/student/shadow/etc. What I did at each clinic I was in varied. My worst veterinary experience was a struggle because I did not have clear expectations along the way, even when I asked; it was assumed I would "just know".

 

[Coquette22]

I'd like to know what is expected of me as an extern/intern/student/shadow/etc

For me personally all I want from my students is 1) engagement, 2) ability to read a room, and 3) sense of progression. If you're with me for 3 weeks, I need to have evidence that you're learning something and getting better. I had an RVT student who was with us for 8 weeks and by the end of it she still couldn't tell me what classes of drug hydromorphone and dexmedetomidine were. We used these drugs weekly and I explained fhem weekly, she knew where Plumb was and by the end she was still just answering with "oh um ugh um tranquilizer? Pain killer?" That's what frustrates me.

Contrast that with the RVT student who asked (on her first day) "What do you think about Boxers and acepromazine?" Ask questions! Please! Even if you think they're dumb! Ask to see case files! Look at the schedule for the day. If we've got a diabetic consult, read up on diabetes and it's management and sequelae. Look at bloodwork and see if you can find causes for the abnormalities. Just show some level of progression and curiousity.

 

[supershorty]

I've had some great externships and some kind of "meh" externships and here's what I've found is the difference at the ones where I come out of it going "wow, that was great, I learned so much!"

-Engagement. I'm very good at standing there silently when needed, but I really appreciate when the doctors or techs include me in the conversation. I'm there to learn! There's one private practice I spend time at regularly because it's near my parents' place, and I get a ton out of being there because the doctors explain to me what they're doing, or ask me how I would approach something. Sometimes I haven't known the answer and they've made that okay - they just tell me where to find the answer, or tell it to me and then expect me to remember it. I don't mind being asked questions in front of clients when I'm there because they understand that I'm learning, but the vets also expect me to know my stuff.

-Clear expectations. I've shadowed some vets who don't want students to touch anything, even if they're just grabbing some gauze out of the truck. I've shadowed some vets who had me jump in and do things. I'm fine with either end of the spectrum, but if I don't know what you want, I'm going to err toward not doing anything, just because I've been reprimanded before. And if you do have me do stuff, I really appreciate feedback!!

Getting hands-on experience is amazing when it happens, but I recognize it doesn't always. It's just an extra treat when it does.

 

[DVMDream]

I think she meant a general you where "the clinic" has seen a prospective student's resume, not you specifically or the entire staff. It's kinda weird to me that they don't show you guys what you're getting into with a student, though.

There may be some underlying legal reasons to why a student's information can't be shared with everyone as well. The basic of so-and-so is a fourth year veterinary student or RVT student or pre-vet or whatever should be told to the staff, but that still give me ZERO information on what that person does or does not know. I was trying to explain things to a first year vet student recently but had no idea of her experience level, since she worked at the clinic, I figured she had some basic level of experience, I was wrong and once I found that out I was able to adapt what I was showing her and how to walk her through things.

So perhaps some expectation to either ask the student what they are/aren't comfortable with by staff AND for the student to speak up and say "hey, I actually haven't done this before, can you walk me through it?" This area is going to have to be a two-way street of communication because not everyone will know what your experience level is and even a fourth year veterinary student is guaranteed to have done everything and I can't predict what someone has or hasn't done.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Interesting, I think all of the places I've externed at had given relevant staff a copy of my application and resume/CV (all the vets and techs, usually). Most people at each place are guaranteed to ask me about one specific job I have on my resume so that's how I know Maybe if you really have that many students coming in and out of your clinic it would be hard to keep track, but I'm surprised you wouldn't at least have an owner/manager telling the team 'PP9 is coming here for two weeks, she's a 4th year from U of I, she's done a lot of wildlife/zoo stuff and her career goals are ____.'

What may be helpful for both sides is putting together a little questionnaire for the student to complete the first day. 'Rank your confidence/skill level from 1-5' kind of thing, and list a bunch of skills/concepts. It's a quick way for the student to realize where they need to improve, and where you could potentially mentor them. Have them complete the same questionnaire on the last day and compare.

 

[EB73674]

COMMUNICATION. LITERALLY the most important thing to me. Bear in mind what your students' experiences are, and bear in mind what your students' experiences with YOU are. If I've never run a certain type of appointment with you, set up expectations BEFORE we get in there, rather than leaving me not knowing what supplies you need or what role you'd like me to focus on. Many, if not most, of us, are there to learn and contribute and are happy to jump in and do things. Be clear in what you are asking for, and be clear about the manner in which you would like it done. I would FAR rather be micromanaged than not managed at all.

 

[LyraGardenia]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said - make expectations clear, let me know what I am or am not allowed to do, make an effort to explain things to me and involve me in cases, and provide opportunities for hands-on experience when appropriate.

One thing I would add is that if it's slow, give me something to do, even if it's just "here, read this chapter about x condition while I return phone calls." I had one externship this summer where it happened to be a slow week while I was there, and I spent so much time just sitting/standing around staring at the wall because the doctors were all in their office ignoring me, and the techs were just chatting in the tiny break room. I second whoever said to let me know if you're going into an appointment, I don't want to seem disinterested if I just happened to be watching something elsewhere when you went in, but I don't want to barge in in the middle of things either. I also appreciate being told when I can go to lunch/when I should be back by, and when I can leave for the day, it's very awkward just standing around at the end of the day watching the techs cleaning and not knowing if it's okay for me to head out!

 

[killerleaf]

*****
How to tell it is Monday. I was thinking the title was asking what students wanted in a placemat...like you use on a table...sigh....now to turn you back to your more important discussions!
*****

 

[DVMDream]

*****
How to tell it is Monday. I was thinking the title was asking what students wanted in a placemat...like you use on a table...sigh....now to turn you back to your more important discussions!
*****

Cats

 

[SkiOtter]

Cats

Cats in outfits or hats

 

[cdo96]

Cats

Cats in outfits or hats

Cats in space will also work for me!