I am looking into taking the ochem sequence over the summer, 2012. Anyone have any info to share on what schools offer it at a decent price? Thanks
Summer Ochem
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I don't advise taking OChem during the summer. It's way too intense and so easy to struggle due to the information overload. You'll be covering about 12 chapters in a typical 6-week session. That's 2 chapters per week. It's tough enough to cover one OChem chapter/week, let alone two. And you want to do back to back summer sessions of OChem 1 and 2. I don't care if it's the only class you'll be taking because the human brain can only withstand so much mental torture in a given day.
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Alright if you want to play hero, but don't say I didn't warn ya.
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DONT DO IT!!!! I took ochem one this summer, 80% of the class were retakes, they had already seen the material. 10% of the class finished the course and passed with either a B or C, the rest of us dropped and opted to take it in the fall. It's amazing how much information is thrown at you in one summer lecture vs a week of semester lecture. We went over something for 15 minutes this summer that we will spend an entire hour lecture on durring the semester lecture. I'd strongly advise taking another class over the summer versus any ochem course; the first day the teacher told us to prepare to have no summer. It's already tough information, I'd reccomend taking it at a little bit of a slower pace...by the way we just had our 2nd midterm, course average was in the 50's...and the test was written very fair. whatever you decide to do, good luck mi amigo!
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Exactly what I've been trying to say.
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Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Unless you're a super study-er, in which case... OChem away!
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I took Ochem over the past summer. It was definitely a time commitment, but I ended up with an A+ and am relieved that this semester is at least slightly less of a course load. Some people say that this is a red flag to dschools and will affect information retention; but to be completely honest do what you feel will give you the better GPA. Create review packets for each chapter to review before taking Ochem 2 lecture. As long as you are disciplined, pretty good with science courses, and can sacrifice a month and a half of summer, go for it. It doesn't really matter. (anyone who didn't take it as a summer course will tell you otherwise).
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Well I'm from ny so I know that cuny schools such as Hunter, City college, Queens college and Brooklyn college are good options. Not really sure about schools in the west but I'm sure there are plenty that will also be good options.
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Can't you stay closer to home, like Alaska-Fairbanks, or something? There must be a school in Alaska that offers o-chem in the summer, no? You could always take it at a closer, Canadian school like UNBC, UBC, Alberta, etc.
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Schools that have separate labs some times offer summer boot camp labs, where you do two labs a day for 2-3 weeks. It's not bad, but a lot of work.
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now you guys are scaring me to do a full 16 week semester of calculus in 4 weeks during winter...
I don't see what the deal is with taking summer o-chem. People say you do the material twice as fast, but thats not true.... Your hours of class remain consistent with a actual semester/qtr.
Lets say you have a 16 week course and you do 1 hour a week.
In summer you would have an 8 week course, 2 hours a week. If it was an 8 week course for 1 hour a week, then the class is going twice as fast.
And if ochem is the only class you take, that means you might be in class for 4 hours a day. You have the entire rest of your day left to study it...
I don't see what the deal is with taking summer o-chem. People say you do the material twice as fast, but thats not true.... Your hours of class remain consistent with a actual semester/qtr.
Lets say you have a 16 week course and you do 1 hour a week.
In summer you would have an 8 week course, 2 hours a week. If it was an 8 week course for 1 hour a week, then the class is going twice as fast.
And if ochem is the only class you take, that means you might be in class for 4 hours a day. You have the entire rest of your day left to study it...
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You have to LEARN (or memorize) the material twice as fast.
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The reason people say it is "twice as fast" is because you are learning 2 weeks of material in 1 week. So, even though you spend the same amount of time in class, you have to spend twice as much time outside of class.
In general, to be successful in Organic Chemistry you should spend 2-3 hours per day, 5-6 days per week studying outside of class. When this workload gets doubled, you are looking at spending 4-6 hours per day, 5-6 days per week (is that even possible? I'm a good student, but I sure couldn't do it) outside of class studying O.Chem. And that is in addition to, what, 2-3 hours per day in lecture/lab?
The other issues are that you will probably be at an unfamiliar school, possibly a "lesser" school academically (I know that is an ignorant generality on my part, but you get what I am saying) than the one you attend, professors may not be as inclined to help you outside of class, you will probably be taking tests over material that was covered yesterday in lecture (which makes studying extremely tough), and so on.
It's your call, but I'm just trying to explain what you would be up against. If you want to take it, I wouldn't have a problem with that in the least.
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twice as fast in relation to the year, but not twice as fast in relation to time. You would obviously still study your usual x amount of time per hour of class.
1 hour of class, you study 1 hour outside of class.
2 hours of class, you study 2 hours outside of class.
The class isn't moving faster at all. And you don't need to learn the material twice as fast.
I can teach you 5+5=10 in 1 hour. Next day i teach you 5X5=25 in 1 hour. Thats 2 hours in which you learned that.
What if i did that in one day. Did it take any longer for you to learn the material? No. 2hours=2 hours, weather i taught it to you in 30 min increments or what ever.
1 hour of class, you study 1 hour outside of class.
2 hours of class, you study 2 hours outside of class.
The class isn't moving faster at all. And you don't need to learn the material twice as fast.
I can teach you 5+5=10 in 1 hour. Next day i teach you 5X5=25 in 1 hour. Thats 2 hours in which you learned that.
What if i did that in one day. Did it take any longer for you to learn the material? No. 2hours=2 hours, weather i taught it to you in 30 min increments or what ever.
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Ooooookay...
What you are saying is completely irrelevant. Taking a 16-week course in 4-weeks is still, by your definition, "not moving any faster." But I wouldn't recommend doing that, either.
If you cover 2 weeks material in 1 week, it IS faster.
You will still only have 16-18 waking hours each day. But you will only get half as many days to learn the material.
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All i ever said if you read my posts is that the class isn't moving faster. It is not.
If you can handle it or not is a completely different topic, but all i ever argued against is the class moving faster, which it is not. You are still getting the same exact hours. So it cannot move faster.
And yes, a 4 week class in comparison to a 16 week class is not taught any faster.
You might have met 1 hour a week, now you meet 4 hours a week. You might have met 1 hour a day 5 times a week, now you meet 4 hours a day 5 times a week.
How can the teacher teach it faster if the hours still add up, and are equal.
If you can handle it or not is a completely different topic, but all i ever argued against is the class moving faster, which it is not. You are still getting the same exact hours. So it cannot move faster.
And yes, a 4 week class in comparison to a 16 week class is not taught any faster.
You might have met 1 hour a week, now you meet 4 hours a week. You might have met 1 hour a day 5 times a week, now you meet 4 hours a day 5 times a week.
How can the teacher teach it faster if the hours still add up, and are equal.
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Just because you are taught the material in class and then you study it, doesn't mean you have learned it. In summer, you are taught in class more material per day, per week. Material builds on the previously taught material. You have the same amount of exams in the summer with the same amount of material on each exam, but less time in between exams. If you have x amount of material to study in only 7-10 days as opposed to 15-20 days, which is easier? Maybe you thought you learned the material, but now you realize you didn't. You went got taught in class, studied twice as much because it's summer, but now you have less time before the exam to master it.
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So it seems that you guys also agree with me. Since i always put aside the fact of learning the material, and all i ever tried to prove was the misconception of the class being taught at a faster rate during summer. Seeing there are no opposing arguments to what i'm saying, i think you guys pretty much agree with me. You guys are talking about something i never said. I only said that the class is not being taught twice as fast. Its not. From here you can say that you dont learn it as easily? sure. You can also say that when you fart, you like to catch it in your hand and then smell it. Sure ya can! But it has nothing to do with what i was saying.
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Your argument is that people don't have to do the material twice as fast because you are taught in class the same amount of time. You assume people will double their amount of studying if class time is doubled per day. Our argument is that the class is faster because you end up needing to study much more than double. We understand the class time is the same, but that doesn't mean the class isn't "faster".
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i never said anything about comprehension or learning, just wanted to clarify that the CLASS doesnt move any faster. Read what ive written.
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I wouldn't let all these people discourage you at all from taking it in the summer. If you are bright and capable of self study you will be fine. I have found summer to be the best time for challenging courses as you can devote all your time to that one course. As posted by someone else in the thread, I also know a couple of people who have done Boise St. in the summer and enjoyed their time there as well as the price.
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Agreed. OChem is tough for the large majority of people, but if it clicks for you, then I say do it. I really like o-chem. The good thing about taking it over the summer is that you're completely focused o-chem, alone. You eat, sleep, breathe o-chem. ...compared to during the semester, when you have 4-5 other courses taking up your time.
Thanks for the great insight everyone. I agree with the eat, sleep, breathe ochem concept. That type of learning had always worked well for me. I will look into Boise State, that school never crossed my mind. How demanding is the curriculum? I would think there would not be too big of a difference between different universities and their ochem curriculum but I could be wrong. Id say most of it rests on the shoulders of the professor.
I
iralex801
Everyone's mind is different. You might find Ochem easy. It's up to you to assess yourself.
All I can tell you is if you are applying to dental school, OChem I and II taken over the summer are not looked highly upon. Especially if you decide to take OChem I and II at a less academically challenged school. Why? I think most of the critics above answered the question. You are not going to be able to learn OChem in full detail. Some professors tend to skip a lot of reactions or some minor concept that can help you on another concept, which you might need to study for the DAT. Yes, you can learn from the textbook! You can only learn so much from your undergrad OChem textbook, especially if the professor likes to integrate Biochemistry like problems with OChem or more advanced OChem concepts and reactions. However, I am not saying that it is not do-able, but it is just not recommended by most dental schools.
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Did an adcom tell you this? Seems like the same could be said about any other course taken in the summer.
Yes, an adcom told me! This also applies to other pre-req science courses taken over the summer too.
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There's was this joke ******ed professor who used to teach OChem I and II during the summers at my school. Basically every single fool got an A in his class (with many taking advantage of this ochem path) and no one learned a darn thing. The buzz was that he would use the same exact questions from the back of the chapters (the ones that included the answers too in the answer key) for his exams without changing anything because he was unable to create his own test questions. Also, whenever anyone asked a question during class, he would just stare at the board for about 5 seconds and then say "ahhhh, let me get back to you on that" with the hope that the student wouldn't follow up on it at the next class. After a few years of dumb ass people scoring A's in summer OChem and studious students complaining about their C's and D's during fall/spring OChem, they canned this lazy bum. Good bye and good riddance. (I opted to take OChem during the fall/spring so I could learn something and do well on DAT -- pat on my back lol).
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That's an unfortunate case, and clearly you made the best decision under your circumstances. However I don't believe summer organic chemistry courses or any pre-reqs for that matter are always a joke or lacking.
Personally, I took organic chemistry in the summer and worked my tail off, and did alright on the OC section (22), with a B+ and A-. However, the fact is, there's no way to know what various adcoms will think or what your summer program will be like, so I'd say the safest path is the traditional one of taking it during normal semesters.
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Why would an ad-com care if you took O-Chem or any other pre-req during the summer if your DAT score in that section coincides with your grade?
I don't believe Ad-coms told people this; and if they did I don't believe it is a significant consideration in any way. Its not as if they would prefer a student who got a B in the regular semester vs. an A in the summer.
IMO its a no brainer to take summer courses, especially for a non-trad trying to finish pre-reqs asap!
I don't believe Ad-coms told people this; and if they did I don't believe it is a significant consideration in any way. Its not as if they would prefer a student who got a B in the regular semester vs. an A in the summer.
IMO its a no brainer to take summer courses, especially for a non-trad trying to finish pre-reqs asap!
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I think if they really cared that much, a lot more people would know about it. A lot of students take courses in the summer, and that doesn't mean they learn less. I'm sure there are a lot of examples where the course is a "joke," but I don't think it's that common. Maybe it depends on what school you go to.
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I agree but if the person doesn't score well, then it undermines any high grades achieved during the summer in that subject. It becomes a must win scenario for DAT.
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Isn't that true no matter when you take a class? If you get an A in O chem 1 & 2 and a 17 on your DAT they might suspect your school's science dept wasn't that tough regardless of what semester you chose to take the course.
Personally, I feel like taking 11 science credits last summer with a 4.0 shows a DS I am capable of a challenging, fast paced semester. I am more proud of that than a 16 credit 4.0 regular semester.
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I had a pre-med classmate who thought he could save some tuition money and graduate earlier by taking 22 credits one summer. Well, it was suicide and he screwed up his GPA so bad that he couldn't get into med school and had to settle for podiatry school. What a podiatry loser lol.
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In 2010, I took both Gen Chem courses over the summer back to back. Then in 2010-2011 Fall/Spring I took the Ochem courses. As far as the summer courses, it seemed like I was studying, doing lab reports, and the mastering chemistry online homework every day, all day long (I did not have a job). I don't think I would have been able to pick up Ochem over the summer as well as Gen Chem. Ochem was an entirely different animal.
To keep the Gen Chem fresh, I tutored during 2010-2011. I don't think I would have retained the information as well if I didn't tutor.
These ended up being my 2 high DAT scores, Gen Chem 24 and Ochem 29. I thought they would be the other way around, but I think I choked on one or two Gen Chem questions.
To answer your question, I would advise against Ochem in the summer. But I thought you might find my story somewhat relevant.
Good luck!
