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It's a deceased medium in the age of streaming. It takes up too much space, on idle produces more heat, and largely is only useful 1 to 2 times a year unless you lack a t.v.
Surface pro 3 vs MacBook for med school
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It's a deceased medium in the age of streaming. It takes up too much space, on idle produces more heat, and largely is only useful 1 to 2 times a year unless you lack a t.v.
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Pretty much, discrete graphics always improves things. Admittedly though, the mac line uses very high quality integrated graphics cards i.e iris or iris pro which are significantly better than the traditional 4400 or 4600 you'll get in comparable intel devices.
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Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who is not very tech-savvy, so I don't have too much knowledge to offer.
Personally, I've got a 13" Air and it does fine. I'm not too worried about memory either since I can use the cloud and google drive. We're 2/3 of the way through first year and I've only used 9% of my drive space and about 2% of the cloud. The base 13" Air is $1000, the base model of the Pro is $1100 and they both have 4gb. If you want 8 gb on the pro it costs 1300 (includes retina display). The extra 4 gigs weren't worth $300 to me. Sure Pro will likely be faster too, but I've had mine about a year now and speed hasn't been an issue for me at all yet.
Except according to Apple's website the intro Pro is only 4gb and is still 1080p. My air is also 4gb and 1080p. The difference is the air has a 1.4 GHz processor while the pro's is 2.5 and comes with a 500 gig hard drive and is $100 more. If you want retina display with 8 gigs then it's 300 more than an Air.
Eh, like I said, the 1440p really didn't make that much of a difference for me. I just use chromecast with my comp and watch videos on an actual television when it's recreational. I'd rather watch something in 1080p on a 46" screen than 1440p on a 13" screen. Plus, for watching lecture videos it won't make at our school since the graphics on mediasite aren't great, so the computer won't make a difference there.
Personally, I've got a 13" Air and it does fine. I'm not too worried about memory either since I can use the cloud and google drive. We're 2/3 of the way through first year and I've only used 9% of my drive space and about 2% of the cloud. The base 13" Air is $1000, the base model of the Pro is $1100 and they both have 4gb. If you want 8 gb on the pro it costs 1300 (includes retina display). The extra 4 gigs weren't worth $300 to me. Sure Pro will likely be faster too, but I've had mine about a year now and speed hasn't been an issue for me at all yet.
Except according to Apple's website the intro Pro is only 4gb and is still 1080p. My air is also 4gb and 1080p. The difference is the air has a 1.4 GHz processor while the pro's is 2.5 and comes with a 500 gig hard drive and is $100 more. If you want retina display with 8 gigs then it's 300 more than an Air.
Eh, like I said, the 1440p really didn't make that much of a difference for me. I just use chromecast with my comp and watch videos on an actual television when it's recreational. I'd rather watch something in 1080p on a 46" screen than 1440p on a 13" screen. Plus, for watching lecture videos it won't make at our school since the graphics on mediasite aren't great, so the computer won't make a difference there.
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I was going to ask about that. Would the 4 gigs of ram really make much of a difference? I dont game nor do I do video editing or anything of that business. But even for streaming videos and stuff (which I expect to do a lot) would 4 gigs be enough.
Lets say
1) I am streaming a lecture,
2) I have powerpoint up,
3) word or onenote up,
4) and then a couple web pages up,
5) maybe youtube and/or pandora, all at the same time.
Thats about the most that I would likely ever have up at once on my laptop. Would those extra 4gigs of ram, or that extra CPU speed, or that bettr graphics card actually make any appreciable difference to a common user?
Lets say I go with these two options - they are both the same price (+/-$30):
MBA
rMBP
Lets say
1) I am streaming a lecture,
2) I have powerpoint up,
3) word or onenote up,
4) and then a couple web pages up,
5) maybe youtube and/or pandora, all at the same time.
Thats about the most that I would likely ever have up at once on my laptop. Would those extra 4gigs of ram, or that extra CPU speed, or that bettr graphics card actually make any appreciable difference to a common user?
Lets say I go with these two options - they are both the same price (+/-$30):
MBA
- 1.7GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
- 8GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
- 128GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
rMBP
- 2.6GHz Dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
- 8GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM
- 128GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
- Intel Iris Graphics
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Get MBP, it'll last you longer. You said you buy a computer every 5-10 years. That's not what a macbook air is for.
Nothing you do is going to be demanding for the computer right now, but in 4 years when your computer is a few generations behind, you'll appreciate some extra speed. If you've never had a computer with a SSD before, having flash storage will be the biggest performance increase you've ever experienced.
Anyone with a spinning HD, switch it out for a SSD. Easiest way to boost performance a TON in your laptop.
Nothing you do is going to be demanding for the computer right now, but in 4 years when your computer is a few generations behind, you'll appreciate some extra speed. If you've never had a computer with a SSD before, having flash storage will be the biggest performance increase you've ever experienced.
Anyone with a spinning HD, switch it out for a SSD. Easiest way to boost performance a TON in your laptop.
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Welppp... So for $30 more I can get a better screen, its faster, and its only a half pound heavier. NOW I found out that the MBP has a standard HDMI port where the air doesnt. That about sold it for me. I actually use the HDMI port a fair amount.
MBP is looking like that winner.
MBP is looking like that winner.
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I'm referring entirely to Retina MacBook Pro. The standard is there for people who are clueless about life.
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Go with the MBP. Mine is 8 years old and still running like a champ. Take care of it and it will last.
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You had to wait for Instagram? That was a long time ago. Development is MUCH faster now for Android and Windows systems. Also, you can bootleg apps on Windows, which you cannot do on Apple products due to compatibility.
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No denying that the options for mods are significantly more easily found on a windows/android machine than an apple one. That being said it comes at certain expenses. No one can deny that an apple device is far more user friendly.
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If you have an old 22" TV or similar, this is so useful. Two screens so you can have your ppt/notes up on one and simultaneously look up anything you need to clarify on the Internet or textbook pdf. Makes everything more efficient.
Related anecdote: my extra screen was the first TV I ever bought (to use as a TV at the time), 2008 right after high school. Samsung 22" 720p LCD - $550 and that included $100 off since it was a display item! Now you can get an LG 55" 1080p LED for $500. I hate technology.
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Lenovo yoga. Never do Mac.
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I have used Onenote on an iPad in my post-bacc(we are in the same med school classes as the students) and with the new update it's doable but way more frustrating with drawing than my friend's surface pro three when I borrowed it to see. So if you are really stuck on Onenote and don't see yourself for another app like iannotate or notability then get the hybrid. As for Mac vs PC my old Asus lasted eight years and (besides the battery crapping out last week so it's now a glorified desktop for my mom) still runs like a charm. I think most people people get very cheap PC's wonder why they never last actually spend money on a MAC because they have there is no cheap line and lord and behold it works fine and last so they blame the PC's in general and not the fact it's a cheap pc. Despite the little rant I'm actually going say Mac because most students have a Mac so if you forgot to charge your Mac or it breaks you are more likely to find someone to borrow a charger from then with a PC
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FWIW, surface pro wouldn't run UWorld when I looked last year.
Mac won't run the sample software from the NBME.
Mac won't run the sample software from the NBME.
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Four a MBP which for that amount won't replace for all of med school and possibly a good chunk of residency 250 is not expensive for double I would get it
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Unless you have an enormous iTunes library of music/movies or you try to pirate every medical text of the past 20 years, I can't see 256Gb being necessary. The more meaningful specs IMO are the processor and RAM. If those are upgraded as well, it might be worth the extra money.
35" seems pretty big for this use, but it's all dependent on your office/desk space. If you have enough space, why not?
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35" can honestly make things look really pixilated and stretched out.
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Didn't read this thread, but:
Check compatibility with your school's curriculum first - Apple, Windows, and PCs in general should all be just fine. In the business world, PC predominates, so it can be nice to go that direction for compatibility reasons. However, if you're more comfortable with Apple products, it should be fine to stay with that. Most of your class will have MacBooks.
Keep in mind if your school takes exams on your PC (most do these days), then you will have to use your PC for exams as well.
Beyond that, the most important things for med school are:
1. Portability (13" seems perfect, light is great)
2. Fast (Booting, program opening is basically instantaneous with an SSD, it's worth the price increase every time. Get one 64 GB or larger)
3. Battery Life (Anything > 6 hours should be fine, not like you're going to be far from an outlet for long)
4. Comfort (Being familiar with the software is very convenient)
5. Extras (These aren't as important, and "features" rarely get a ton of use - e.g. touch screens have niche uses but certainly aren't necessary)
If you're only using your laptop for school work, a 64 GB harddrive should be fine. Bigger is more convenient, but if you're trying to stay cheap, an SSD of that size is fine. If you want more space external hard drives are enormous and cost next to nothing. You should have one anyways to back up your important files.
Check compatibility with your school's curriculum first - Apple, Windows, and PCs in general should all be just fine. In the business world, PC predominates, so it can be nice to go that direction for compatibility reasons. However, if you're more comfortable with Apple products, it should be fine to stay with that. Most of your class will have MacBooks.
Keep in mind if your school takes exams on your PC (most do these days), then you will have to use your PC for exams as well.
Beyond that, the most important things for med school are:
1. Portability (13" seems perfect, light is great)
2. Fast (Booting, program opening is basically instantaneous with an SSD, it's worth the price increase every time. Get one 64 GB or larger)
3. Battery Life (Anything > 6 hours should be fine, not like you're going to be far from an outlet for long)
4. Comfort (Being familiar with the software is very convenient)
5. Extras (These aren't as important, and "features" rarely get a ton of use - e.g. touch screens have niche uses but certainly aren't necessary)
If you're only using your laptop for school work, a 64 GB harddrive should be fine. Bigger is more convenient, but if you're trying to stay cheap, an SSD of that size is fine. If you want more space external hard drives are enormous and cost next to nothing. You should have one anyways to back up your important files.
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True, I was thinking more along the lines of having multiple apps open at once, side by side at smaller sizes. I don't even stretch things to full screen on my 22" because of the decreased resolution.
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I am just getting a decent quality SDXC card to double or triple my memory. If you watch for deals you can get a 128 or 256 GB one for around $50-75. That's where I will be storing crap that I won't be using often. The 256 SSD seems nice but the cost is really starting to get out of hand at that point. Even just an external hard drive would probably do the trick for the most part, or even just using the cloud or sky drive etc. The SDXC seems sweet though so I will likely go that route.
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I have the rMBP 15". I would recommend getting the 13" version for school. Best computers I've owned. My old one (6+ years) works just fine still.
Edit: FWIW, I also looked at the Surface Pro 3 strictly for the digitizer pen to use with OneNote. I just can't justify the price for that one feature. Taking handwritten notes on the iPad is not ideal.
Edit: FWIW, I also looked at the Surface Pro 3 strictly for the digitizer pen to use with OneNote. I just can't justify the price for that one feature. Taking handwritten notes on the iPad is not ideal.
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I'm in a PBL program so I don't really stream lectures. However, I regularly use powerpoint, OneNote, several webpages and Spotify all at once on my MacBook Air and I've never had any issues.
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Haha seriously I was planning on starting another thread basically for that. I heard one note is a little goofy on the Mac so I wanted to get an idea on what people use.
I should probably just wait to get my Mac and try it out first though.
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OneNote is HORRIBLE on Mac and iPad. I've tried iAnnotate and Notability for iPad and they're both solid for taking handwritten notes (you can type directly on your notes with these programs too, if that's your thing). I use an adonit Jot Pro stylus, which I really like; its like writing with an actual pen. They're pretty similar but here's a list of pros and cons for each.
iAnnotate
Pros:
More bells and whistles
Converts word and powerpoint files with almost no formatting issues
Has an adjustable palm rejection "screen" built into it
Can print directly from your iPad
Easy to sync and organize your files in Google Drive, DropBox, One Drive, etc.
Cons:
Costs more than Notability
Can get buggy/lag, especially with bigger files - this is why I pretty much only use Notability
Notability
Pros:
Also has adjustable palm rejection "screen"
Can print directly from iPad
Easy to sync across iPad, iPhone, computer, Google Drive, etc. so you have access to notes anywhere (not sure what there is for syncing across devices in iAnnotate aside from cloud storage, but I'm guessing it may have a similar feature)
Cheap and often goes on sale in the App Store
Can do audio recording while taking notes (we occasionally have lectures that aren't recorded so this is nice)
Doesn't lag or get buggy
Easy to insert photos and diagrams
Cons:
Okay job at converting Powerpoints and Word docs to pdf, but often messes-up the formatting so I have to convert files to PDFs prior to uploading them
Somewhat unrelated, but Scanner Pro is another app that's been really helpful. It acts like a scanner and converts pictures to pdfs. I use to take pics of stuff on the whiteboard or from texts and then I can add in my own notes.
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Many things will require either Windows or Mac. For example, I doubt you'll be able to access your school's VPN to access clinical applications since Linux has such a (relatively) small user base. At one of the hospitals we rotate at, we have to complete bull**** Epic training using Internet Explorer on a box running Windows. No exceptions. It's ridiculous. This is the problem with enterprise-level IT.
I'd at least have OSX or Windows available to use when necessary and then use Linux otherwise. I used Linux for ~a year during M1 and eventually gave up as school- and hospital-specific applications were a complete pain in the ass to use on Linux - if they could even be used at all.
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I switch my system out every few months on CL and have used MBA 11, 13, rMBP 13, 15, and a Surface Pro 1, 2, 3.
Since it sounds like you're set on a Mac, my recommendation is first to decide whether you want a 11/13/15. The weight is a non issue these days. It is the 'bulk' that will be most noticeable. I can fit a 11 in a large purse and is easy/convenient to stow or carry around open with one hand, while a 15 is a snug fit in most backpacks. The 13 I belive is mostly popular due to its price point, but I feel loses the benefit of the 11's portability and the 15's power / screen real estate.
I have a fondness for the MBA 11 and highly recommend it for ultimate portability. It may not seem like it is that much smaller than the MBA / rMBP 13, but the dimensions make it MUCH easier to tow around. I found that I acclimated to the screen dimensions very easily. My only caution is that if you tend to write a lot of research papers, the smaller screen precludes viewing a document and PDFs simultaneously and I would advise getting a inexpensive 24" display to use at home if it is your only system.
I would recommend getting the rMBP 13 over the MBA 13, but I would caution getting any 13 since while they are the jack of all trades, tey are the master of none. The rMBP 13 does not weight much more and the display makes a noticeable difference on eye strain when doing a lot of reading.
I now use the rMBP 15 because portability is no longer an issue and the larger screen offers more real estate for keeping two documents open side by side. It is great for writing longer papers, 15" I have found to be enough to not really require an external display. The downside is the cost that is the result of the higher performance CPU / potentially GPU / base RAM / base / storage. Most users really don't need will not require the power. Not everyone will need/want this option, but if on a budget 2013 & 2012 models can be had for less than the price of a new rMBP13 base model with a little savvyness on CL.
Specifications: I would recommend 8GB of RAM, but if you are really on a budget you can get away with 4GB if you only do light web use and document writing. More ram will be useful is you start having numerous large PDFs, programs, etc. running simultaneously. 128GB storage is enough to get through your average user needs, and getting a 1/2 TB USB 3.0 drive ~50-80 on sale is the most economical way to go if you are on a budget. If you tend to use more media (photos, videos, music) then I would advise getting the 256GB storage option just for convenience if you can afford it, and again get a low price external for any excessive usage/videos.
Surface Pro. I spent about 6 months carrying around a MBA 11 AND SP2/3, although ultimately I chose to do MB + Paper. SP1/2 are incredibly cheap on CL where I live, and this option can still be done on a budget (~250-450) if you want one just for OneNote. SP3 is larger with considerably better battery longevity, and the stand is useful.
PS: AppleTV streaming is incredible for YouTube, Lectures, etc!
Since it sounds like you're set on a Mac, my recommendation is first to decide whether you want a 11/13/15. The weight is a non issue these days. It is the 'bulk' that will be most noticeable. I can fit a 11 in a large purse and is easy/convenient to stow or carry around open with one hand, while a 15 is a snug fit in most backpacks. The 13 I belive is mostly popular due to its price point, but I feel loses the benefit of the 11's portability and the 15's power / screen real estate.
I have a fondness for the MBA 11 and highly recommend it for ultimate portability. It may not seem like it is that much smaller than the MBA / rMBP 13, but the dimensions make it MUCH easier to tow around. I found that I acclimated to the screen dimensions very easily. My only caution is that if you tend to write a lot of research papers, the smaller screen precludes viewing a document and PDFs simultaneously and I would advise getting a inexpensive 24" display to use at home if it is your only system.
I would recommend getting the rMBP 13 over the MBA 13, but I would caution getting any 13 since while they are the jack of all trades, tey are the master of none. The rMBP 13 does not weight much more and the display makes a noticeable difference on eye strain when doing a lot of reading.
I now use the rMBP 15 because portability is no longer an issue and the larger screen offers more real estate for keeping two documents open side by side. It is great for writing longer papers, 15" I have found to be enough to not really require an external display. The downside is the cost that is the result of the higher performance CPU / potentially GPU / base RAM / base / storage. Most users really don't need will not require the power. Not everyone will need/want this option, but if on a budget 2013 & 2012 models can be had for less than the price of a new rMBP13 base model with a little savvyness on CL.
Specifications: I would recommend 8GB of RAM, but if you are really on a budget you can get away with 4GB if you only do light web use and document writing. More ram will be useful is you start having numerous large PDFs, programs, etc. running simultaneously. 128GB storage is enough to get through your average user needs, and getting a 1/2 TB USB 3.0 drive ~50-80 on sale is the most economical way to go if you are on a budget. If you tend to use more media (photos, videos, music) then I would advise getting the 256GB storage option just for convenience if you can afford it, and again get a low price external for any excessive usage/videos.
Surface Pro. I spent about 6 months carrying around a MBA 11 AND SP2/3, although ultimately I chose to do MB + Paper. SP1/2 are incredibly cheap on CL where I live, and this option can still be done on a budget (~250-450) if you want one just for OneNote. SP3 is larger with considerably better battery longevity, and the stand is useful.
PROS: I enjoyed the concept of the SP. I have yet to see an iPad stylus that truly simulates the accuracy, ease, and effectiveness of a true digitizer input. It was great for physics and math notes, where I didn't spend a lot of time using color. OneNote is incredible, and last time I checked the iPad OneNote misses much of the PC based functionality (such as the pen). EverNote, Notability, are neat applications and I have seen people use them effectively, but the experience is different and the accuracy and speed are missing. SP3 keyboard (not SP1/2) wasn't that bad to use on a lap in a stable place (lounge chair), but was still difficult in a place like a bus, plane, etc. Although I don't tend to write long document in those precarious positions so I always thought that argument was a little misleading.
CONS: It never really replaced the kinetic feel of writing on real paper. That really bothered me and I suspect part of that has to do with handedness. If you are left handed you 'push' your hand/pen across the screen, as opposed to 'pulling' if you are right handed. I found the 'pushing' to be awkward with the glass surface and never get one of those gloves to use while writing. It is also a bit of a hassle to switch colors on the fly while note taking. I am not a Windows person anymore and anything outside of OneNote was awkward and clumsy, so I felt the need to still have my MacBook.
CONS: It never really replaced the kinetic feel of writing on real paper. That really bothered me and I suspect part of that has to do with handedness. If you are left handed you 'push' your hand/pen across the screen, as opposed to 'pulling' if you are right handed. I found the 'pushing' to be awkward with the glass surface and never get one of those gloves to use while writing. It is also a bit of a hassle to switch colors on the fly while note taking. I am not a Windows person anymore and anything outside of OneNote was awkward and clumsy, so I felt the need to still have my MacBook.
PS: AppleTV streaming is incredible for YouTube, Lectures, etc!
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Thanks a bunch everyone for all of the advice and time put into this thread.
I am 100% going with a rMBP. Its been a tough decision that has been made easier because of the collective experience that everyone has given to this thread.
I am 100% going with a rMBP. Its been a tough decision that has been made easier because of the collective experience that everyone has given to this thread.
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My recommendation is to wait till June for potential new models coming out and to always remember that you get 100 off as a student.
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Yea I probably will, if it means its cheaper for the current model in June then thats cool with me. The current model has more power than I could ever use. I dont need to spend hundreds more for the latest and greatest.
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Agreed. The old version will still be more than adequate for what you need.
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If I started medical school next week, I would pick up the Surface Pro 3 and never look back. There is not a better tool for medical students to annotate powerpoints right now. I've already discussed this with OP, so this is just me throwing my general opinion out there.
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lol 4gb of RAM is absolutely fine for streaming lectures, movies, youtube, etc. Performance-wise 4gb is an ample amount for everything except serious gaming or video editing. The faster processor will make a barely appreciable difference in load times for every day things, and again mostly would only be noticeable in more intensive tasks such as gaming or video editing. If all you are going to be doing is internet + annotating lectures + watching videos + note taking, etc. the lower specced system would perform perfectly for all of those tasks.
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64 bit os' use 2 gigs of ram purely on idle. Multitasking with multiple things open will put you at 70% usage. Open up a YouTube video or word whole running skype and you'll find things will begin to lag.
8 gigs likewise is not ample for video editing, photo editing or other very high cpu intensive processes. But it is the amount I recommend as time goes by. Truth is that things are changing and ram loads constantly grow.
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Surface Pro 3 is the tits if you are the student that likes to write down notes as opposed to typing. Very few devices pack the Wacom/N-Trig digitizers that allow for very accurate stylus input like that found on graphic design tablets. Combined with either OneNote or DrawBoard PDF, that ability to download pdf/ppt lectures and draw/write on them directly is fantastic. If you don't think you would use the stylus, than get a traditional laptop since the SP3 does many things well, but there are compromises compared to traditional lappys. IMHO comparing a mac and a Surface Pro is apples and oranges. Figure out if you'll use the pen first.
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not to mention the fact that you don't want to buy a computer that fits the bare minimum of your needs right now, especially if someone is going to be using it for a significant amount of time like 5 years. it's better to have headroom than to have it become a POS in 4 years because of increasingly demanding software.
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don't really like M series processors personally. the 1 C usb is pretty crappy too, whats the point of using a slim computer if you have to use a hub with it.
standard MBP is the go-to computer for medical students imo
standard MBP is the go-to computer for medical students imo
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Yea that M processor is small and efficient but that 12 inch Mac is just a step away from a tablet.
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This is truth. Buying a new system with 4 GB of RAM is extremely foolhardy. RAM itself is dirt cheap and there is no conceivable reason to not get at least 8 GB. Case in point, I am running a very minimalist custom install of Windows 7 Pro on this computer currently (custom built), and with 2 Chrome windows open and and Steam running, its sitting at nearly 3 out of 16 GB usage. It would take no effort at all to push things over 4 GB usage.
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I think the new MacBook looks fantastic! And that new keyboard is quite intriguing but for $1300 a 1.1 GHz processor is incredibly weak and for that money you can have a much more capable MacBook Pro which has also been updated. But still, the subtle chassis changes to the new MacBook are just perfect..... Gonna have to go with the Pro though.
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 17,394
- Reaction score
- 9,146
12" is for little kids. 15" or bust.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 357
- Reaction score
- 678
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 17,394
- Reaction score
- 9,146
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 357
- Reaction score
- 678
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 17,394
- Reaction score
- 9,146
I've got the triple screen going on at home - 15" MBP with 23" x 2 HD monitors. Pretty much my dream setup. It's awesome for charting at home, work, etc.
