Taxes: Yikes

[spacecowgirl]

+1

Flat taxes all the way. Everyone paids 25% that way it's fair all around. No more arguing and it will be much simpler.

Since you propose this, support it. I'll get you started.

Joe Schmoe makes $10/hr driving a forklift (well above min wage and a common wage where I live)

10x2080=$20800 year gross
$20800 x 0.25= $5200 (not factoring state income tax at all)
Tell me how he is to live off of $15600 for housing, health insurance (because it can't be Medicaid), transportation, utilities, phone (everyone needs a phone), food, clothing, etc.

Joe Pharmacist makes $55/hour
$114400/yr X0.75= $85800
How does living off of $85800 compare to $15600?

And go!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I thought the concept of a flat tax was not a % but an amount? Ex: It takes $1000 from each person to run the government. A corrollary would be that the government is required to live within this budget.

Nah, you know what, that last part is way too radical.

 

[pharm B]

Do you realize that if you have a family 100K is nothing...if you have children that you want to send to private schools because you actually care about their education, then 100K is most likely not even enough....

In all honesty, I think its statements like these that rile up other posters. Is pharmacy a job? Sure. But should you have at least a modicum of compassion? Yep. You see this purely as a source of income. Oh, and sometimes you have to deal with those dastardly patients.

Who would ever dream of having a family where the total income was less than $100k?

 

[pharm B]

Joe Schmoe makes $10/hr driving a forklift (well above min wage and a common wage where I live)

10x2080=$20800 year gross
$20800 x 0.25= $5200 (not factoring state income tax at all)
Tell me how he is to live off of $15600 for housing, health insurance (because it can't be Medicaid), transportation, utilities, phone (everyone needs a phone), food, clothing, etc.

Joe Pharmacist makes $55/hour
$114400/yr X0.75= $85800
How does living off of $85800 compare to $15600?

And go!

From what I've seen so far: neither of these persons should consider having a family.

In all seriousness, there are some big problems out there related to taxation and how it's done. What's the best way to effect positive change? I watched the Republican debate last night for S&G, and only the finest American Ale made it palatable.

 

[spacecowgirl]

The hubs had to turn it off after about 30 seconds of listening to Michele "Facts?Schmacts!" Bachmann.

 

[SHC1984]

Since you propose this, support it. I'll get you started.

Joe Schmoe makes $10/hr driving a forklift (well above min wage and a common wage where I live)

10x2080=$20800 year gross
$20800 x 0.25= $5200 (not factoring state income tax at all)
Tell me how he is to live off of $15600 for housing, health insurance (because it can't be Medicaid), transportation, utilities, phone (everyone needs a phone), food, clothing, etc.

Joe Pharmacist makes $55/hour
$114400/yr X0.75= $85800
How does living off of $85800 compare to $15600?

And go!

Sure, we can always give examples here. And personally, I can just choose to NOT work. I could choose to sit at home and watch TV everyday and make ZERO dollars forever. And who is going to pay for my stuff??????
BUT BUT BUT...I'll be POOR??? What am I gonna do? Shouldn't someone just come and give me some free money?

Yes, we can make up scenrios everyday, but my question is just this:
How is it FAIR to make some people pay a bigger percentage in taxes than other people??? HOW IS THAT LOGICAL OR FAIR? Yes, you can say b/c they are rich they can afford to...YES, that's true...BUT WHY SHOULD THEY BE OBLIGATED TO???? NO ONE ever answer that question. WHY should someone just because they make more money pay a bigger percentage. The only answer I get is because they can afford to OR the other answer is b/c someone else is poor and need the money etc. Well that doesn't really answer WHY THEY SHOULD BE OBLIGATED TO.

There are people on this board that seem bitter against rich people. WHY? They work their ass off and earn their money, yeah their rich but they earn it and I think they deserve to keep it. I am all for hardwork and smart working people. If someone is hardworking and extremely intelligent and they make good money. Hell, good for them! I am happy for them. Why are people on here hating?

Some of OldTimers post are just down right stupid. Yes, he is going to come on here thinking he is better than everyone else and insult other people when he doesn't know anything himself.

One of his comments was rich people benefit MORE from society so they should pay more money. WTF!!!! That's stupid. How does rich people benefit MORE from society? How do they reap in more benefits than others??? If anything the people that benefit MOST from society are the people that DO NOT WORK AT ALL and collect tax dollars every month from the gov. Those people benefit the MOST. People that work hard and make their money benefit some, yes but the people that just sit at home and wait for free gov money. They benefit the most b/c all they have to do is RELAX...sometimes I wonder if the gov wipe their asses for them too.

 

[owlegrad]

If the poor have it so good, feel free to give it a try sometime.

 

[SHC1984]

I thought the concept of a flat tax was not a % but an amount? Ex: It takes $1000 from each person to run the government. A corrollary would be that the government is required to live within this budget.

Nah, you know what, that last part is way too radical.

Flat taxes means everyone paids the same percentage in taxes. If you pay 20% everyone paids 20%. If you pay 50% everyone pays 50%. That is the most fair way to do it. Yes, some people can afford to pay more...just like other people can get their ass off and find a job too...

In all honesty, I think its statements like these that rile up other posters. Is pharmacy a job? Sure. But should you have at least a modicum of compassion? Yep. You see this purely as a source of income. Oh, and sometimes you have to deal with those dastardly patients.

Who would ever dream of having a family where the total income was less than $100k?

You didn't read my entire statement. I said 100K family income is actually very low if you have children that you want to send to private school. My friend in pharmacy school just send her son to pre K and damn the tuition is high. Here is just one of the private schools around the area here...and this isn't even the most expensive school around here. http://www.woodward.edu/admissions/tuition/index.aspx
If I had children I would want the best for them and private school is def the way to go, but on 100K it could be a stretch. If you had 2 or more children you would be using up more than 50% of your income.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Moderation here folks. Debates have a tendency to drive disagreeing parties to further extremes than they would otherwise be.

I think we can all agree that entitlement in this country has gone horribly wrong, and we can no longer afford to fund it as it currently exists. At the same time, if we hope to balance the budget, there is no way we can do it by cutting spending alone, not when it's $1.36 trillion a year.

It's not fair to starve someone to death, but neither is free money for no work. It's not fair to take more from people just because they can more to take from, but neither is gluttony while your neighbor is dying of starvation.

The bottom line: the poor will have to work more. The rich has to pay more. Both will have to learn live with less.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Moderation here folks. Debates have a tendency to drive disagreeing parties to further extremes than they would otherwise be.

I think we can all agree that entitlement in this country has gone horribly wrong, and we can no longer afford to fund it as it currently exists. At the same time, if we hope to balance the budget, there is no way we can do it by cutting spending alone, not when it's $1.36 trillion a year.

It's not fair to starve someone to death, but neither is free money for no work. It's not fair to take more from people just because they can more to take from, but neither is gluttony while your neighbor is dying of starvation.

The bottom line: the poor will have to work more. The rich has to pay more. Both will have to learn live with less.

Agree 110%.

 

[owlegrad]

Moderation here folks. Debates have a tendency to drive disagreeing parties to further extremes than they would otherwise be.

I think we can all agree that entitlement in this country has gone horribly wrong, and we can no longer afford to fund it as it currently exists. At the same time, if we hope to balance the budget, there is no way we can do it by cutting spending alone, not when it's $1.36 trillion a year.

It's not fair to starve someone to death, but neither is free money for no work. It's not fair to take more from people just because they can more to take from, but neither is gluttony while your neighbor is dying of starvation.

The bottom line: the poor will have to work more. The rich has to pay more. Both will have to learn live with less.

Not all poor need to work more though (not every poor person is poor due to their work ethic), but that is a minor point. Good post.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Not all poor need to work more though (not every poor person is poor due to their work ethic), but that is a minor point. Good post.

I took that as a reference to those who abuse the system, but if that's what he meant I might only agree 95%

 

[DRxUGS]

If I had children...

Please don't.

 

[SHC1984]

Please don't.

They'll turn out much smarter and better than yours for sure. I'll most likely be an Ivy League school mom one day. http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0084/9282/products/harvard_mom.jpg?1058

 

[All4MyDaughter]

If the poor have it so good, feel free to give it a try sometime.

I love you.

Please don't.

And you too.

 

[owlegrad]

I love you.

And you too.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Sure, we can always give examples here. And personally, I can just choose to NOT work. I could choose to sit at home and watch TV everyday and make ZERO dollars forever. And who is going to pay for my stuff??????
BUT BUT BUT...I'll be POOR??? What am I gonna do? Shouldn't someone just come and give me some free money?

Yes, we can make up scenrios everyday, but my question is just this:
How is it FAIR to make some people pay a bigger percentage in taxes than other people??? HOW IS THAT LOGICAL OR FAIR? Yes, you can say b/c they are rich they can afford to...YES, that's true...BUT WHY SHOULD THEY BE OBLIGATED TO???? NO ONE ever answer that question. WHY should someone just because they make more money pay a bigger percentage. The only answer I get is because they can afford to OR the other answer is b/c someone else is poor and need the money etc. Well that doesn't really answer WHY THEY SHOULD BE OBLIGATED TO.

There are people on this board that seem bitter against rich people. WHY? They work their ass off and earn their money, yeah their rich but they earn it and I think they deserve to keep it. I am all for hardwork and smart working people. If someone is hardworking and extremely intelligent and they make good money. Hell, good for them! I am happy for them. Why are people on here hating?

Some of OldTimers post are just down right stupid. Yes, he is going to come on here thinking he is better than everyone else and insult other people when he doesn't know anything himself.

One of his comments was rich people benefit MORE from society so they should pay more money. WTF!!!! That's stupid. How does rich people benefit MORE from society? How do they reap in more benefits than others??? If anything the people that benefit MOST from society are the people that DO NOT WORK AT ALL and collect tax dollars every month from the gov. Those people benefit the MOST. People that work hard and make their money benefit some, yes but the people that just sit at home and wait for free gov money. They benefit the most b/c all they have to do is RELAX...sometimes I wonder if the gov wipe their asses for them too.

I'm pretty sure this does not address my concerns at all.

And what about "dumb" working people? People who barely make it through high school and could never consider college. They learn a trade and they make Joe Schmoe's $10/hr.

You (general) can say people should strive for better, get an education, blah blah. Guess what - not an option for a lot of people. They might not have the intelligence that you (SHC) are blessed with, they might not have the support of family, they might be needed to work to support their family (meaning their parents and siblings), etc.

Someone needs to clean your hotel rooms, serve your food, pick your fruit. Do those people not deserve a livable wage?

90% luck 10% hard work. If you think it's any different than that, you're fooling yourself.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Since SHC didn't answer:

$15600 after taxes
Rent: $500x12= $6000
Utilities $100x12 = $1200 (that's pretty low)
Transportation (taxes, insurance, gas) = $1200 (assuming car is paid in full, note also that many people do not have access to public transportation, as is the case where I live)
Health insurance: $150x12 (high deductible plan, hopefully Joe won't need it) = $1800
Food/clothing/misc: $300x12 = $3600
Phone (the most basic landline phone which we have is $30, let's not consider VOIP since Joe doesn't have the internet) $30x12 = 360

$1440, that's $120 per month for car repairs, medical expenses, entertainment (!) not to mention retirement savings. Or state and local taxes.

 

[LazyMooch]

I think we can all agree that being poor sucks.

Bam. Valid point.

Seriously though, I'm a moderate, and I really want to go ultra conservative here because those poor right wingers are vastly out numbered.

Do political views become more important later in life? Were you guys all like this in your early 20's? Most of my peers, myself included, seem to be out to "get mine" and leave politics alone.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I think we can all agree that being poor sucks.

Bam. Valid point.

Seriously though, I'm a moderate, and I really want to go ultra conservative here because those poor right wingers are vastly out numbered.

Do political views become more important later in life? Were you guys all like this in your early 20's? Most of my peers, myself included, seem to be out to "get mine" and leave politics alone.

With a name like "LazyMooch" shouldn't you be a democrat?

[/JOKE]

 

[LazyMooch]

With a name like "LazyMooch" shouldn't you be a democrat?

[/JOKE]

See, the best thing about being moderate, aka forming my own ideas about issues instead of wrapping myself in the party blanket, is that I can laugh at that joke.

In all seriousness though, held at gunpoint to pick a party, I'd probably lean right. If only there weren't so many crazy *******s in it pushing their morals down people's throats...

And also, If I didn't plan on having a family, I would 100% try to find every loophole to live off of your earnings. And yes I would try to get cash back to spend it on booze and drugs.

 

[chemnerd99]

We just learned in class today that 50% of those on medicaid are functionally illiterate, read at or below a 5th grade level. How are they going to make more than $10 a hour ever. The national average is only 8th grade reading. Compassion try it, remember that's why we became pharmacists- to help people.

 

[R2pharmD2]

See, the best thing about being moderate, aka forming my own ideas about issues instead of wrapping myself in the party blanket, is that I can laugh at that joke.

In all seriousness though, held at gunpoint to pick a party, I'd probably lean right. If only there weren't so many crazy *******s in it pushing their morals down people's throats...

And also, If I didn't plan on having a family, I would 100% try to find every loophole to live off of your earnings. And yes I would try to get cash back to spend it on booze and drugs.

Thinking for yourself FTW!

 

[LazyMooch]

We just learned in class today that 50% of those on medicaid are functionally illiterate, read at or below a 5th grade level. How are they going to make more than $10 a hour ever. The national average is only 8th grade reading. Compassion try it, remember that's why we became pharmacists- to help people.

I could've sworn it was for the money...

I don't get the helping people thing. I feel like you can do so much as a nurse, as a doctor, as a PA, as a PT.

I kid, but I think the important thing to remember is that you can't generalize our personal reasons for pursuing the profession.

If I had to put a randomly, non-researched statistic out there, I would say that less than half of pharmacists #1 reason was to "help people". If anything, were complying with the industrialized world's addiction to prescription meds.

And I read a scary ass article that linked infertility rates to people pissing / tossing meds into the water supply. Of course, I also cannot back that up.

 

[Liberty2010]

Compassion try it, remember that's why we became pharmacists- to help people.

When people say they want to become a pharmacist to help patients i don't think they mean it in the sense that they want to make more money, to be in a higher tax bracket, so the government can redistribute it to the disadvantaged.

 

[xiphoid2010]

90% luck 10% hard work. If you think it's any different than that, you're fooling yourself.

Nobody is disputing that there aren't external factors at play, but I have to disagree that hardwork is only 10%.

Asians prospered in this country 90% through blood sweat and tears. We didn't come with wealth, got lucky at lottery, and certainly nobody was handing out charity to the Asian kids. So unless you think we are naturally luckier or smarter, which we aren't, then our success must be attributed to our work ethic, belief in education and willingness to for one generation to sacrifice for the next.

Hard work and education will take MOST people a long way, unfortunately not enough people are willing to shed blood sweat and tears, and do whatever it takes.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Nobody is disputing that there aren't external factors at play, but I have to disagree that hardwork is only 10%.

Asians prospered in this country 90% through blood sweat and tears. We didn't come with wealth, got lucky at lottery, and certainly nobody was handing out charity to the Asian kids. So unless you think we are naturally luckier or smarter, which we aren't, then our success must be attributed to our work ethic, belief in education and willingness to for one generation to sacrifice for the next.

Hard work and education will take MOST people a long way, unfortunately not enough people are willing to shed blood sweat and tears, and do whatever it takes.

I am not Asian but I have to agree. When I left my parents house, I had been kicked out of HS with no diploma, a couple hundred bucks in my pocket and not even a vehicle. Now, about 20 years later, I have a retirement I have been contributing to and am in a position to go to my selected grad program without putting myself in very much debt.

Like Xiphoid said: 90% Luck? I dont think so. Do I have at least the mean intelligence allowing me to think critically for myself and pass my classes? Yes, that was given to me. But that is the ONLY "luck" I have had. Everything else I have worked my ass off to get. Multiple jobs, going to work or studying while my friends went out, one actual vacation now in 8 years, my 2 yo daughter screaming (with delight) when she sees me because it only happens about every other day.

Yep, Cowgirl is right. It is/was 90% luck...

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I haven't worked all that hard to be where I am. I'm looking at 99% luck...like 1% moderate effort.

I should post my high school report card. You'll see how much hard work I've done. I was the first person in known history to be failing calculus while simultaneously getting a high enough score on the AP Exam to get college calculus credits.
1

 

[BanBidil]

I live in a high tax state (Wisconsin). State income tax is about 6%. Thus far, about 33% of my income has gone to taxes. However, on my W-4, I took 0 deductions.

Bhahhaaa,
6% is nothing. Try living in Los Angeles pal, 10% income tax, 10% sales tax and 1.5% property tax on houses you will never afford (unless you want to live in the hood).....

I WISH I were only paying 6%.

 

[LazyMooch]

I haven't worked all that hard to be where I am. I'm looking at 99% luck...like 1% moderate effort.

I should post my high school report card. You'll see how much hard work I've done. I was the first person in known history to be failing calculus while simultaneously getting a high enough score on the AP Exam to get college calculus credits.
1

I wouldn't label education as extremely difficult, but rather I'd label it "time consuming". While education is made easier by a higher intelligence, I'd say that most individuals could grind their way up to a doctorate. In that respect, I dont take myself very seriously as a true "academic".

The main things that stop them seem to be lack of ambition/desire, kids, sickness, S/O's, and inability to fund.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Nobody is disputing that there aren't external factors at play, but I have to disagree that hardwork is only 10%.

Asians prospered in this country 90% through blood sweat and tears. We didn't come with wealth, got lucky at lottery, and certainly nobody was handing out charity to the Asian kids. So unless you think we are naturally luckier or smarter, which we aren't, then our success must be attributed to our work ethic, belief in education and willingness to for one generation to sacrifice for the next.

Hard work and education will take MOST people a long way, unfortunately not enough people are willing to shed blood sweat and tears, and do whatever it takes.

Like Xiphoid said: 90% Luck? I dont think so. Do I have at least the mean intelligence allowing me to think critically for myself and pass my classes? Yes, that was given to me.

That's what I mean - luck can be the intelligence that allows you to get through school. If you have that, you're already lucky. Luck can be having parents who value education and motivate you to succeed, even if they can't financially help you...vs smoking crack and just wanting you out of their way. Luck can be having a caring teacher, a mentor or a relative to help you.

I'm not saying unsuccessful people are all hapless victims of circumstance, because it does take balls to work with the hand you're dealt. But to act as though you've earned it all through hard work is arrogant.

 

[apteryx]

But to act as though you've earned it all through hard work is arrogant.

So by the same equivocation, to act as if all those who are poor should get government assistance is asinine.

Now, before you go nuts on me, I never said I don't agree with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Honestly, I think this topic sucks, and I'm really only here to stir **** up. So let's go, I wanna see some more sparks fly. I can't remember the last time I've seen so many people riled up over something they can't/won't solve.

[YOUTUBE]9fEjJ4Ecy9Q[/YOUTUBE]

 

[spacecowgirl]

I can't remember the last time I've seen so many people riled up over something they can't/won't solve.

You must not watch many political rallies or debates. Or Glenn Beck.

 

[apteryx]

The last time I saw Glenn Beck, he was holding down the bookshelf at Borders. Amazing how many copies are left, even at 80% off.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Since SHC didn't answer:

$15600 after taxes
Rent: $500x12= $6000
Utilities $100x12 = $1200 (that's pretty low)
Transportation (taxes, insurance, gas) = $1200 (assuming car is paid in full, note also that many people do not have access to public transportation, as is the case where I live)
Health insurance: $150x12 (high deductible plan, hopefully Joe won't need it) = $1800
Food/clothing/misc: $300x12 = $3600
Phone (the most basic landline phone which we have is $30, let's not consider VOIP since Joe doesn't have the internet) $30x12 = 360

$1440, that's $120 per month for car repairs, medical expenses, entertainment (!) not to mention retirement savings. Or state and local taxes.

I grew up without a lot so I will chime in. In NYS, Joe will have NYS medicaid which means he is covered for insurance. He is be elgible for housing subsidies and if not, can find a roommate. Under the criteria given, he is also elgible for food stamps.

At the end of the year, he will get a tax return mostly from a huge credit called earned income credit for working. He will also get back most of the taxes that he paid if not more than what he paid because of the credit. Based on the information provided, he can easily get 7 thousand dollars in terms of government credits, state credits, etc.

7k + 1.800k (health insurance) + 1k (food subsidies) + 2-3k (rent subsidies from government or sharing with roommates) = 12k tax free. He also has 1400 extra from your spending money.

Amazingly, that is my "spending money" per month after all of my bills... I guess I have to do a better job managing my finances.

 

[SHC1984]

I'm pretty sure this does not address my concerns at all.

And what about "dumb" working people? People who barely make it through high school and could never consider college. They learn a trade and they make Joe Schmoe's $10/hr.

You (general) can say people should strive for better, get an education, blah blah. Guess what - not an option for a lot of people. They might not have the intelligence that you (SHC) are blessed with, they might not have the support of family, they might be needed to work to support their family (meaning their parents and siblings), etc.

Someone needs to clean your hotel rooms, serve your food, pick your fruit. Do those people not deserve a livable wage?

90% luck 10% hard work. If you think it's any different than that, you're fooling yourself.

I always believe its more 70% hardwork and 30% luck.

I really don't think people that went to college or professional school are any smarter than anyone else. I think it is mostly hardwork. There are going to be people on here that think they are exceptionally smart or a genius, but unfortunately MOST people on earth are just of average intelligence. There are a few very bright people out there, but those are VERY FEW...maybe a hand full of them on earth and we'll most likely never run into any of them. So I really do not think just because you are a doctor you are exceptionally intelligent and must be one of those miracle gifted people. It's most likely you are of average intelligence just like EVERYONE else but you work harder or was just more driven. Most people are not exceptionally intelligent or bright..there might be like 50 of those people on the planet...very few.

I guess it boils down to this. Yes, there are going to be people that are poor and need money and it might not always be 100% their fault. I see people on the streets when I live in New York City all the time...sitting there and collect money from random people on the streets. I get those people are poor. And it might not be all their fault...yes, I get that. But the question is: should that automatically make it a OBLIGATION for other people to pay for them to live on this earth? Just because you are poor, for whatever reason, does that make it automatically someone else's responsibility to pay for all your stuff???? Bill Gates could afford to buy every homeless person in this country a house. Does that automatically mean he should be OBLIGATED to do it? It should automatically be HIS responsiblitiy?

I guess that is the question we are debating on. If everyone didn't have to help the poor then we will not have to pay nearly as much taxes as we do now. So should it be other people's obligation/their responsiblity to help the poor people? I really don't know for sure...but I know pharmacist work their ass off for their money. The job is very stressful and demanding...so it really does suck to lose all that money to taxes...I am sure you know what I mean...You are a pharmacist.

 

[Momus]

This year we got $2000 through pay roll tax cut... next year $3000! Yay for payroll tax cut to 1/2, if congress pass it, which is likely Could use $3000 not going to social security for gas money ;o

Anyone here can't live with $100,000...could be a *****? Median HOUSEHOLD income is $49,000. Heck, 15% of people in the US are in poverty level, that's 46 million people, almost 1 in 6 people... For a household of two adults and two children, that meant they lived on an income of less than $22,113

Tax rate in US is one of the lowest in developed countries...

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

That's what I mean - luck can be the intelligence that allows you to get through school. If you have that, you're already lucky. Luck can be having parents who value education and motivate you to succeed, even if they can't financially help you...vs smoking crack and just wanting you out of their way. Luck can be having a caring teacher, a mentor or a relative to help you.

I'm not saying unsuccessful people are all hapless victims of circumstance, because it does take balls to work with the hand you're dealt. But to act as though you've earned it all through hard work is arrogant.

"I make my own luck." - Harvey Dent

 

[xiphoid2010]

That's what I mean - luck can be the intelligence that allows you to get through school. If you have that, you're already lucky. Luck can be having parents who value education and motivate you to succeed, even if they can't financially help you...vs smoking crack and just wanting you out of their way. Luck can be having a caring teacher, a mentor or a relative to help you.

That's a very weak definition of "luck". The average IQ is 100, and I see no reason why anyone with an IQ above 90 isn't capable of finishing undergrad. Do majority of parents smoke crack? Since most of the parents aren't sitting in jails, that's a no. Unless going to inner city public school somehow gave me better teachers than average, then neither is that luck.

When it's something that the majority posses by default, then it's not luck, it's just statistics.

I'm not saying unsuccessful people are all hapless victims of circumstance, because it does take balls to work with the hand you're dealt. But to act as though you've earned it all through hard work is arrogant.

I'm not saying that there aren't things outside of people's control that can make or break a life. Things like being born with Down syndrome, getting hit by a drunk driver, certainly can be valid excuses for poor outcomes.

But since these probabilities are small, and the majority are free from these catastrophes by default, then it's not luck to have what most people have. In that case, majority of the failure to make at least to middle class then is likely the failure to work harder or sound planning/judgement. Use your example, a $10/hr job, a hard working person doing 12 hr/day x5 days/week, that's $30+K a year, and if you are married to another person of the same working habit, then the house hold income is now $60K+, above the national average and putting you in middle class.

Let me use my wife for example. She came here from vietnam 2001 with nothing and hardly spoke English. Worked illegally 40+ hour week in a Chinese restaurant as a waitress, use the money to study undergrad full time with 18-21 credits/semester at the same time. She studied hard, initially lived in her rusted Honda civic and at the restaurant since there was no welfare for her. She made it into pharmacy school and that's how we met. That's called doing whatever it takes. Doing anything less, then I don't consider someone having tried hard enough.

 

[SHC1984]

In that case, failure to make at least to middle class then is likely the failure to work harder or sound planning/judgement.

That's what I always feel. I understand that most people aren't going to be millionaires or billionaires unless you are born with the money, but being middle class? come on!

Is it really that hard to just take care of yourself?????? I am not talking about becoming a billionaire...I am just talking about having enough money to sustain YOUR life. I never thought that could be that hard and I still really don't think it is. You just need to make enough money to live on, that's it. Not to become Bill Gates or Donald Trump. Come on people! damn.

 

[Momus]

Is it really that hard to just take care of yourself?????? \

Most people are just utter failure to understand the concept of delayed gratification...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3oIiH7BLmg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Momus]

Let me use my wife for example. She came here from Vietnam 2001 with nothing and hardly spoke English. Worked illegally 40+ hour week in a Chinese restaurant as a waitress, use the money to study undergrad full time with 18-21 credits/semester at the same time. She studied hard, initially lived in her rusted Honda civic and at the restaurant since there was no welfare for her. She made it into pharmacy school and that's how we met.

Can't help to notice that she snugged a green card from you during school year!

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Most people are just utter failure to understand the concept of delayed gratification...

Bingo!!! Its usually "all me, all now"...

Can't help to notice that she snugged a green card from you during school year!

Ummm, I will have to stand up for Xiphoid here. I did not see where he said that she immigrated illegally, just that she WORKED illegally. To me that means she was paid under the table.

I could be wrong but I dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Can't help to notice that she snugged a green card from you during school year!

She had already got a green card by the time we met. She got into the country legally, just worked illegally most of her undergrad. Momus is correct, as a foreign student, it was not legal for her to work.

----- edit: oops, I mean Kasas pharmer got it right

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

----- edit: oops, I mean Kasas pharmer got it right

Hey thanks! Every once in a while, I actually do good in logic problems

 

[PharmGirl31]

This is the first year I start working as an RPh. So I was wondering, when it come to doing tax-return, do most pharmacist end up paying or getting a refund check? I wasn't sure if i should pick the highest or lowest state tax on my paycheck. thanks.

 

[Hello2011]

This is the first year I start working as an RPh. So I was wondering, when it come to doing tax-return, do most pharmacist end up paying or getting a refund check? I wasn't sure if i should pick the highest or lowest state tax on my paycheck. thanks.

How long did it take you/your classmates to find jobs?

 

[DnK71188]

I wish that for paying my 27%-38.95% of taxs that the government at the end of the year would just send me a thank you letter. Sure the education system is why were here making so much money, but more importantly thank us for putting the time in and making this money. Thank you letter & a gift card to P.F changs would be nice, its the least we deserve. 6 or more years of school to get taxed at an unacceptable rate with no thank you, that just sad . We should all send one letter a day until they send us a freaking hall mark thank you card with our god darn gift certificate.

 

[PharmGirl31]

How long did it take you/your classmates to find jobs?

about a month. I got lucky

 

[xiphoid2010]

I wish that for paying my 27%-38.95% of taxs that the government at the end of the year would just send me a thank you letter. Sure the education system is why were here making so much money, but more importantly thank us for putting the time in and making this money. Thank you letter & a gift card to P.F changs would be nice, its the least we deserve. 6 or more years of school to get taxed at an unacceptable rate with no thank you, that just sad . We should all send one letter a day until they send us a freaking hall mark thank you card with our god darn gift certificate.

The duties between citizen and its government is a social contract. You don't need a thank you letter for performing the contractual obligations.

To be honest, the tax burden isn't crazy high compared to other developed countries around the world, we are not even required to join the army and risk our lives for the country.

There IS room to increase taxes, just as there are room to cutting spending. Both will happen, it's inevitable, just when. Sooner we get it done, the less painful it will be.