Anyone else considering it between undergrad and med school?
Teach for America
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hey, TFA definitely helped me in this application process, and I must say I also think it helped me as a person and future doctor. It's tough though, very tough. But if you've got think skin and ready for a humbling experience, you'll benefit from it...and med schools hold that experience in high regard. Two years will seem like a very long time though, especially if you're already frequenting sdn and the like, because you'll become anxious to go back to school. I'm glad this is my second year!! Good luck either way!!
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LikeClockWork
I considered it, applied, interviewed, and was ultimately denied a position. Talk about a humbling experience! But it is a very competitive thing so if you are accepted, it does say something. Plus, according to the friend of mine who was accepted, it's an amazing experience and sure to be a great talking point during interviews.
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Dang, you got denied after the interview? That's rough.
OP, I am doing TFA for the next two years, before I go to med. school. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
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Well... I've also heard it's a disillusioning experience that turned several people off of teaching. You'll be working in some of the worst school systems in the US, and many naive kids who just graduated college suddenly have their idealistic, help-thy-neighbor vision shattered by the reality.
Then again, I hear medicine does the same thing
L
LikeClockWork
Yeah, it sucked since I was really starting to get hyped about it right before the rejection. I think maybe my mock 5-minute lecture was a little flat, but I'd never done anything like that before. It's cool though, I got a good job for this year off and I'm making pretty good money so I guess I broke even.
Well I'm already accepted and doing the interview thing now (for med school), so I wouldn't be doing it for any type of resume-building. I'd just defer my admission for 2 years (I hear most schools will do this if it's for TFA). I think I'm going to apply and see what happens and then make my decision.
I've been working in medicine, not as a physician obviously, for 6 years or so and I think I might need a refreshing break doing something else before I'm back to being gung-ho about med school and ready to work my butt off.
I've been working in medicine, not as a physician obviously, for 6 years or so and I think I might need a refreshing break doing something else before I'm back to being gung-ho about med school and ready to work my butt off.
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you will definitely work your butt off in TFA...period. (Unless you don't really buy into the relentless pusuit of success they'll try to sell you) I can only speak about the urban settings they use, not rural. But it's no cake walk...
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my friends have the notion that its a shoe in into med/dent school once you do teach for America? is it really? anyone do tfa and get rejected to professional schools? just curious....
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I don't think anyone is a shoo-in for med or dent.
It's just another part of the application.
Oh, I'm sure it'll be difficult. I meant working my butt off for a goal of medicine. Working my butt off for something completely different might be nice for once.
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HAHA. I've read that before. Have you read the one where the girl gets sued for $20 million?
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Hey Man! I have a respectable major! Recreation, Sports, and Tourism
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Well... I've also heard it's a disillusioning experience that turned several people off of teaching. You'll be working in some of the worst school systems in the US, and many naive kids who just graduated college suddenly have their idealistic, help-thy-neighbor vision shattered by the reality.
Then again, I hear medicine does the same thing
if it was all sunshine and rainbows, everyone would do it.
the point is to challenge yourself and as well as help the few that do aspire to something.
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If you are interested in teaching, also think about your responsibility toward the kids you'll be teaching. I've heard from several sources that TFA doesn't provide with adequate training and practice to prepare you to handle the kinds of classroom situations you'll be put in (I could be wrong - maybe it's changed since I last talked to people). If, because of lack of training or experience, you are spending a lot of time/energy on classroom management and keeping your class from going crazy, how much material will you be able to teach your kids? I feel strongly that if you're committed to teaching, then do the kids the favor of giving yourself adequate tools to do it well.
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I am currently doing something similar to TFA. It is called NYCTF- newyork city teaching fellows program, where you get to teach in inner city schools (mainly in the Bronx and queens). It is def a very challenging experience, but it makes you a stronger person. You also become more aware of the minority community. Its is very competitive. gluck applying if you decide to.
Not sure what you mean by this? - Become a teacher if you want to teach?
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God, I would've thought TFA did a better job at screening potential applicants. He reeks of dejection and disillusionment -- not the type of guy I'd want teaching at my school. The problem with these Cullen types is that they're doing TFA primarily for themselves: for that "life-changing" experience that they will talk about that for the rest of their life. I'm glad he got reality beaten into him, but what about the students in his class who will forever be stuck in these decrepit school systems?
Hey, what school are you at, if you don't mind me asking?
This is the second time in two days that people have responed to an article in the Onion as if it were cnn.
Haven't you guys ever heard of this "newspaper?"
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This is the second time in two days that people have responed to an article in the Onion as if it were cnn.
Haven't you guys ever heard of this "newspaper?"
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I believe she is referring to the fact that teachers in urban environments never really get the chance to do their job, that is to "teach." If one simply wanted to teach, there are other schools in better environments that will be more receptive to your teaching.
In urban environments, you need to expect disorderly classrooms where NO ONE will care about the material you're teaching, where desks are being thrown, and names and insults are being hurled at you left and right. Expect to play catch-up with kids: if you're teaching English, you'll encounter whose essays are just an entire run-off sentence without a single punctuation mark; if you're teaching math, you'll encounter students who still count on their hands. That's the reality, and most teachers are just not capable of teaching in that kind of environment.
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This is the second time in two days that people have responed to an article in the Onion as if it were cnn.
Haven't you guys ever heard of this "newspaper?"
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I AM SO STUPID.
EDIT: Yeah, I've heard it. But in my haste, I didn't look up to see that it was the Onion.
Man, I feel really really embarrassed now. I'm gonna hang my head in lifelong shame.
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Basically, yeah. Get trained on how to teach effectively. Otherwise, you'll just be trying to stay afloat and not be able to contribute as much as you'd like to the kids you want to help.
I'm just saying from what I've heard, TFA may not give you enough training to teach effectively. Just contributing my two cents to the OP's decision on whether or not to consider doing TFA.
Good point. Although, I don't want to have to spend the time and money getting certified the traditional way, just to teach 2 years in an underprivileged classroom.
I want to do it both for the challenge and also for as much benefit as I can be to the students.
I want to do it both for the challenge and also for as much benefit as I can be to the students.
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These are the reasons that I did Peace Corps and it was a trial by fire as well. If you're committed to it, you'll find ways to succeed and make an impact.
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I wanted to respond to those that say TFA doesn't train adequately. I am an '05 alum who taught high school chemistry in south LA. I have some criticisms of the organization, but training isn't one of them. The training is hell, but it definitely helps. When you finish Institute (the summer TFA boot camp) you will have a fair amount of classroom time under your belt... Not as much as someone who did student teaching, but you get feedback every single day and learn teaching techniques and theory from 7 am to 10 pm. Furthermore, that classroom time will be with kids very similar to the ones you will be teaching, i.e. in a rough school with below-grade-level kids, which would not necessarily be true in a normal teaching program. And trust me, if you do student teaching in a normal decent public school, you are NOT ready to walk into a troubled one. Honestly the teachers that came into my school as first year teachers from student teaching programs did about the same as TFA-trained teachers, not noticeably better or worse. Furthermore, in many of the really difficult schools that TFA serves, they simply can't get enough "trained" teachers. They simply aren't there; teachers don't exactly flock to classrooms of 40+ rough high school kids with 3rd grade reading and math skills. The result is that requirements have been relaxed such that you can actually get a job teaching in some places like LA with NO education training, and you start training as you start teaching. Several teachers were doing this as I started, and a lot of them didn't make it through the first semester. We were definitely more prepared than them. Even with this relaxed restriction, we were unable to fill some science positions, and two biology classes were taught for 5 months by day-to-day subs. That is, people with NO biology background, no teaching credential, frequently no management skills, and they rarely stayed for more than a week. You better believe those classrooms were destroyed and the kids learned NO biology. They colored a lot, though. Sometimes on their assignments, sometimes on the walls, and without any red colored pencils as the Bloods steal them all. If the administration gets picky about training, then they have this situation, which is also clearly unacceptable.
I think that those that say that TFA doesn't train adequately are correct in the sense that NO ONE is trained adequately to walk into the situations we walk into, and everyone is going to struggle mightily for at least a year. But we are not at a disadvantage compared to even the "most-prepared" first-year teachers, and we are at an advantage compared to many. Furthermore, while many people do the 2 years and get out, there are lots of great people (my roommate, several others at my school) who stay beyond that commitment who never would have majored in education initially but are fabulous teachers, so I do believe that TFA gets some pretty great people into the profession.
Do NOT do TFA for your resume. If any of you have questions about it, please feel free to PM me at any time! Good luck!
I think that those that say that TFA doesn't train adequately are correct in the sense that NO ONE is trained adequately to walk into the situations we walk into, and everyone is going to struggle mightily for at least a year. But we are not at a disadvantage compared to even the "most-prepared" first-year teachers, and we are at an advantage compared to many. Furthermore, while many people do the 2 years and get out, there are lots of great people (my roommate, several others at my school) who stay beyond that commitment who never would have majored in education initially but are fabulous teachers, so I do believe that TFA gets some pretty great people into the profession.
Do NOT do TFA for your resume. If any of you have questions about it, please feel free to PM me at any time! Good luck!
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I wanted to respond to those that say TFA doesn't train adequately. I am an '05 alum who taught high school chemistry in south LA. I have some criticisms of the organization, but training isn't one of them. The training is hell, but it definitely helps. When you finish Institute (the summer TFA boot camp) you will have a fair amount of classroom time under your belt... Not as much as someone who did student teaching, but you get feedback every single day and learn teaching techniques and theory from 7 am to 10 pm. Furthermore, that classroom time will be with kids very similar to the ones you will be teaching, i.e. in a rough school with below-grade-level kids, which would not necessarily be true in a normal teaching program. And trust me, if you do student teaching in a normal decent public school, you are NOT ready to walk into a troubled one. Honestly the teachers that came into my school as first year teachers from student teaching programs did about the same as TFA-trained teachers, not noticeably better or worse. Furthermore, in many of the really difficult schools that TFA serves, they simply can't get enough "trained" teachers. They simply aren't there; teachers don't exactly flock to classrooms of 40+ rough high school kids with 3rd grade reading and math skills. The result is that requirements have been relaxed such that you can actually get a job teaching in some places like LA with NO education training, and you start training as you start teaching. Several teachers were doing this as I started, and a lot of them didn't make it through the first semester. We were definitely more prepared than them. Even with this relaxed restriction, we were unable to fill some science positions, and two biology classes were taught for 5 months by day-to-day subs. That is, people with NO biology background, no teaching credential, frequently no management skills, and they rarely stayed for more than a week. You better believe those classrooms were destroyed and the kids learned NO biology. They colored a lot, though. Sometimes on their assignments, sometimes on the walls, and without any red colored pencils as the Bloods steal them all. If the administration gets picky about training, then they have this situation, which is also clearly unacceptable.
I think that those that say that TFA doesn't train adequately are correct in the sense that NO ONE is trained adequately to walk into the situations we walk into, and everyone is going to struggle mightily for at least a year. But we are not at a disadvantage compared to even the "most-prepared" first-year teachers, and we are at an advantage compared to many. Furthermore, while many people do the 2 years and get out, there are lots of great people (my roommate, several others at my school) who stay beyond that commitment who never would have majored in education initially but are fabulous teachers, so I do believe that TFA gets some pretty great people into the profession.
Do NOT do TFA for your resume. If any of you have questions about it, please feel free to PM me at any time! Good luck!
Wall of text crits you for 999 damage.
Seriously though, they must not teach paragraph breaks in TFA...
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Good post, meowkat. Also, check out Breakthough Collaborative if you're interested in doing student teaching in urban areas. There's a 2-year commitment, but it's only for 6 weeks in the summer. Less stringent than TFA in terms of time commitment, but just as rewarding.
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I think is another one of those threads that pops up every once in a while without anything new really coming from it. That's not necessarily a bad thing, of course. I finished my two years of TFA in June, and would definitely do it again if I had the choice. At the same time, I was very ready to move on at the end. Spending a couple of years in another profession actually made me more certain that medicine was the right path for me. If you don't feel rushed to start the career you'll stick with for the rest of your life, if you like kids, and if you've got just the right touch of OCD and, as someone else said, thick skin, I think TFA's a great way to spend a couple of years between UG and med school. I got a call from one of my former 3rd-graders the other day, and it brightened my whole week.
In response to the question of competence and readiness, it was my personal experience that TFA teachers inevitably were better-prepared than first- and second-year teachers coming through traditional paths. TFA isn't particularly liberal about releasing real data on how their teachers compare to others, but the one big independent study that's been done found that kids with TFA teachers tend to perform about the same in ELA as those with regular teachers (including veterans), and to outperform them in math and sciences.
In response to TFA as a resume-builder, I don't think it's quite a "shoe"-in, but it's a hell of a foot in the door. My time teaching has come up in every single one of my interviews. At Hopkins, my student interviewer was actually a former TFAer, and finished our interview by saying "As soon as you told me you'd done TFA, I told myself I had to get this kid in." Definitely don't do it if you're not interested in the experience itself, but certainly don't worry that it's going to somehow hurt your med school chances.
In response to the question of competence and readiness, it was my personal experience that TFA teachers inevitably were better-prepared than first- and second-year teachers coming through traditional paths. TFA isn't particularly liberal about releasing real data on how their teachers compare to others, but the one big independent study that's been done found that kids with TFA teachers tend to perform about the same in ELA as those with regular teachers (including veterans), and to outperform them in math and sciences.
In response to TFA as a resume-builder, I don't think it's quite a "shoe"-in, but it's a hell of a foot in the door. My time teaching has come up in every single one of my interviews. At Hopkins, my student interviewer was actually a former TFAer, and finished our interview by saying "As soon as you told me you'd done TFA, I told myself I had to get this kid in." Definitely don't do it if you're not interested in the experience itself, but certainly don't worry that it's going to somehow hurt your med school chances.
That's pretty awesome, could you link me to the study? It's kinda sad to see that the quality of the teachers is also a significant issue amongst the populations that TFA serves, as the study you've referenced would lead me to believe.
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I was wrong about them outperforming veteran teachers as well as other new teachers--looks like it was about the same. I had actually never read the study until I googled it just now, but I'm pretty sure that Hoover Institution one is the one I'd heard of.
That's a big difference. It would be a surprising result thats for sure. Kind of Dangerous Minds like. Thanks for taking the time to find me the reference though.
Speaking of Dangerous Minds I bet that's a movie that you guys get sick of hearing about.
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When you Google "How do test results from "Teach For America" teachers compare?", multiple conflicting papers pop up. Interestingly, I'm pretty sure there are big differences in how TFA teachers compare to their traditional colleagues dependent on which city or area they teach in, with a few areas performing unusually well or poorly. That's based on conversations with TFA administrators with access to TFA's raw internal data. Not sure about any areas in particular, though I think NYC (where I taught, and by far the largest group of TFA teachers) did well in general.
Unfortunately I've only seen the two neither movies
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"Dan Dunne (Ryan Gosling) is a young inner-city junior high school teacher whose ideals wither and die in the face of reality. Day after day in his shabby Brooklyn classroom, he somehow finds the energy to inspire his 13 and 14-year-olds to examine everything from civil rights to the Civil War with a new enthusiasm. Rejecting the standard curriculum in favor of an edgier approach, Dan teaches his students how change works on both a historical and personal scale and how to think for themselves.
Though Dan is brilliant, dynamic, and in control in the classroom, he spends his time outside school on the edge of consciousness. His disappointments and disillusionment have led to a serious drug habit. He juggles his hangovers and his homework, keeping his lives separated, until one of his troubled students, Drey (Shareeka Epps), catches him getting high after school."
Though Dan is brilliant, dynamic, and in control in the classroom, he spends his time outside school on the edge of consciousness. His disappointments and disillusionment have led to a serious drug habit. He juggles his hangovers and his homework, keeping his lives separated, until one of his troubled students, Drey (Shareeka Epps), catches him getting high after school."
Sounds pretty interesting actually. Is it a good movie?
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Sounds interesting, will have to watch. I just watched something with Ryan Gosling recently (The Notebook
); he's a good actor. Yeah...drugs. You can't get a better market for drugs than school, can you?
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It's not too bad. As you'd expect, teachers will go and see pretty much any movie involving teaching, usually to make fun of how unrealistically its portrayed. If you're actually in the mood for a movie like that, Akeelah and the Bee is a lot better, I think.
I was kidding about the heroin addiction part of my teaching experience, lest there be any confusion. Or any AdCom members sniffing around.
I was kidding about the heroin addiction part of my teaching experience, lest there be any confusion. Or any AdCom members sniffing around.
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Oooh, Akeelah and the Bee was good. And realistic. How do you feel about Stand and Deliver? A lot of teachers seem to cite that as their inspiration. I can't count the number of time I've heard "with ganas, you can do anything you want."
Doesn't seem to be the case, your MDApps is killing. What's your top choice?
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Stand and Deliver is great as well. I actually haven't seen that since my high school calc teacher had us watch it. Unfortunately, there's not too many movies out there about unbelievable teachers inspiring their 2nd and 3rd grade classrooms, which made it a little tougher to imagine myself in those roles...
Yeah, I've been lucky so far. I withdrew from Northwestern and Downstate, and I'd have a hell of a time deciding between Hopkins and Cornell if I had to choose right now. Hopkins has the name and research opportunities, but Cornell's got NYC, and I'd say I got a better vibe when I interviewed there. I _loved_ Yale and Stanford, and actually sent Stanford a strongly worded letter of interest a week or so ago. Both of those schools are also true unranked pass/fail, which is appealing. So, to answer your question as to my top choice: I'll tell you in May?
Yeah, I've been lucky so far. I withdrew from Northwestern and Downstate, and I'd have a hell of a time deciding between Hopkins and Cornell if I had to choose right now. Hopkins has the name and research opportunities, but Cornell's got NYC, and I'd say I got a better vibe when I interviewed there. I _loved_ Yale and Stanford, and actually sent Stanford a strongly worded letter of interest a week or so ago. Both of those schools are also true unranked pass/fail, which is appealing. So, to answer your question as to my top choice: I'll tell you in May?
No way. Freedom Writers was great with the inspiration, but how creepy is it that the teacher followed some of her students to college. The update said Erin Gruwell went to a college where some of her students attended. She should have prepared them for success without her.
I have to agree with someone above about Stand and Deliver. Loved it and I totally relate to it. I'm a current TFA Corps Members in Houston. I can't even begin to describe the happiness my TFA experience has brought me and I can tell you many of my other TFA Corps Member friends would agree. Not only is it great to make a difference in the lives of these students, but TFA is also great about providing many opportunities. For those of you considering Teach for America, I would recommending looking at their graduate partnerships page on teachforamerica.org
Let me know if you have any questions for a first year Corps Members. I'd love to tell you about my experience in inner-city Houston.
I have to agree with someone above about Stand and Deliver. Loved it and I totally relate to it. I'm a current TFA Corps Members in Houston. I can't even begin to describe the happiness my TFA experience has brought me and I can tell you many of my other TFA Corps Member friends would agree. Not only is it great to make a difference in the lives of these students, but TFA is also great about providing many opportunities. For those of you considering Teach for America, I would recommending looking at their graduate partnerships page on teachforamerica.org
Let me know if you have any questions for a first year Corps Members. I'd love to tell you about my experience in inner-city Houston.
Where in houston do you teach? I'm an HISD alum myself.
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Yeah, if you're a Teach For America cheerleader I'd be very careful about citing one or two studies as evidence that TFA teachers are better instructors than the fully-trained and experienced full-time teachers on staff. Most studies I've read have been pretty contradictory.
The one thing that seems to be pretty consistent is that for fresh college grads with no teacher training/experience other than an intensive boot camp, volunteers have been suprisingly efficient.
TFA is a great stop-gap solution for the fact that we have a shortage of qualified teachers, especially in lower income locations. But districts are in no rush to abandon the policy of trying to hire trained teachers who have gone through one year credential programs instead of those operating under emergency credentials.
I applaud the enthusiasm and altruism of those that participate in programs like TFA. But take care not pat yourself on the back by denegrating the professional teachers who have invested at least a year of their life going through full teacher-training and are dedicating their lives to the field, not just a two year hitch before med/law school. Time in TFA can undoubtedly be very fulfilling, but do not confuse it with those who are in it for the long haul.
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All time classic teaching movie, in my book. Very very good...
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I didn't do TFA; I did alternative certification. I'm finishing up my second year as a classroom teacher and will start med school in July. My first year I taught at an urban school (shooting, ten fights a day, etc), and then I moved to a rural/suburban/privileged school to be closer to home for the second year. I would move back to the urban school in a New York minute. Yes, it's rough...yes, the kids don't have a lot of basic skills...yes, you have to develop good classroom management techniques. HOWEVER, underneath it all, the kids care that you keep showing up, and they're willing to take responsibility for their own actions. They don't whine much, and they own up to their own problems. Plus, my administration backed me up because they knew how hard a job it was.
At the school I teach at now, everything is tainted by this sense of entitlement...parents and students alike feel as if everything is owed to them, and they never take responsibility for themselves. Everything is always someone else's fault (i.e., the teacher's). The administration backs up the parents because they're too scared not to. Plus, the kids don't really have much better math skills than the urban ones do. The rural students are by far more destructive of property and have dirtier mouths, etc. It was not at all what I expected, but my urban kids, once you got past their shells, were much nicer people.
It really depends on what you're comfortable with...I have a friend who teaches gifted classes, and she would never be comfortable with my regular kids, let alone an urban classroom. However, I would HATE teaching gifted, and I miss teaching urban like you wouldn't believe.
So...something to think about. Urban is tough, but it can also be incredibly rewarding.
At the school I teach at now, everything is tainted by this sense of entitlement...parents and students alike feel as if everything is owed to them, and they never take responsibility for themselves. Everything is always someone else's fault (i.e., the teacher's). The administration backs up the parents because they're too scared not to. Plus, the kids don't really have much better math skills than the urban ones do. The rural students are by far more destructive of property and have dirtier mouths, etc. It was not at all what I expected, but my urban kids, once you got past their shells, were much nicer people.
It really depends on what you're comfortable with...I have a friend who teaches gifted classes, and she would never be comfortable with my regular kids, let alone an urban classroom. However, I would HATE teaching gifted, and I miss teaching urban like you wouldn't believe.
So...something to think about. Urban is tough, but it can also be incredibly rewarding.
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I don't know if someone has mentioned this already. I was approached by TFA representatives to apply..but heard from my friend that there's only a 20% acceptance rate for it. I asked the representative if it's true and she said it is. So I guess if you're considering for Feb 15th deadline like me, you're gonna have to see if the time spent on essays is gonna be worth it.
