Teacher changed grade cutoffs after final!?

[Lannister]

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UPDATE: this issue has been resolved. Thanks everyone.

My ochem professor told us all that the cutoff for a B would be ~65/120 points. She just posted final grades, and emailed us telling us that she decided to do the grades by percents rather than points out of 120, so that 65% was a B. I scored a 51, 72, 77, and 77 points on the four exams, which averaged out to 69.25, plus I got 100% on the homeworks which was worth 10% of our grade. I thought I would be solidly in the B range. But if you turn those scores into percents (the exams being out of 120), I ended up with a C. I think this is completely unfair of her to change the grading scale at the last minute. People who were getting solid As on the exams got Bs in the class. I think this is worth bringing to the university. What should I do, who should I contact? I'm freaking out right now, I'm not a C student, I've only ever gotten one B in college before.

 

[goft20]

Lannisters..thinking they deserve everything.

 

[darkjedi]

Professors usually have final say in their grading criteria. They can apply curves to peoples grades to achieve an appropriate distribution that they see fit. It may be unfair, but it's within their rights.

 

[Lannister]

She increased the grade cutoffs by 20%. That is insane. I worked hard to improve my score after the first exam. I had a B at the midterm, and only improved my scores after that.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

If the last thread on a similar topic taught us anything, lawyer up.

 

[chenzt]

Unless she had a clear hard cutoff indicated on the syllabus, not "cutoff will be around 65" like you mentioned, then you might have a case. Otherwise, you are SOL...

Tons of people must've done well for her to lessen the curve by that much.

 

[nabilesmail]

I got my first C because I was 2/1000's of a point away from a B. Worst than that, I was marked down for more absences by my TA than I really was, which was worth >20 points. I emailed my professor twice, and he never even responded.

Got a C in Ethics, lmao , thats probably why I'm not getting into medical school

 

[Elevencents]

It's her discretion to make the grade cutoffs. Are you saying you did not give it 100% and would have if knowing the new cutoffs? That's on you my friend.

 

[Lannister]

I did give it 100%. I talked to her at the midterm, told her I was struggling, and asked her if she thought I should drop the class. She told me that whatever grade I was given at the midterm would likely reflect what I would get in the class overall. I got a B, so I decided not to drop and to continue trying, and I did try and I improved. If I had known I was going to get a C, I would have taken the W and retook the class next year.

 

[Kochanie]

Professors often change their cutoffs after students do better or worse than they expected them to. That's why they don't usually put a guaranteed grading scale in their syllabi. I got a D with a 70% in Orgo, you're fine, move on. College isn't like high school, you're compared to others for grades.

 

[youmed]

I know it doesn't seem fair for your professor to change the grading policy but if this change is a class-wide policy change, you will most likely not have much say. I'm sure her curve allowed some to have As, most to have Bs, and some to have Cs. It sucks but you just have to accept it unless you want to lawyer up.

 

[medic86]

Professors often change their cutoffs after students do better or worse than they expected them to. That's why they don't usually put a guaranteed grading scale in their syllabi. I got a D with a 70% in Orgo, you're fine, move on. College isn't like high school, you're compared to others for grades.

I wish it was like that at my school. All my less-than-A grades would be curved to As. 😛

 

[Kochanie]

I wish it was like that at my school. All my less-than-A grades would be curved to As. 😛

I guess everyone wants something else. I'd rather always know where I stand independent of others than be compared to everyone else all the time. Especially in this crazy competitive environment that's making me transfer out.

 

[Lucca]

I guess everyone wants something else. I'd rather always know where I stand independent of others than be compared to everyone else all the time. Especially in this crazy competitive environment that's making me transfer out.

That's why I generally take honors courses even if the coursework is harder. They usually aren't graded on a curve and instead it's about your individual performance. It's a lot less stressful even if it's more physical work to be done. Everything is just a lot more transparent and everyone cooperates.

 

[Lannister]

I've never heard of a class being curved down at my school. It's one thing if she wants to change the curve, but changing it so drastically, changing it after the final had already been taken, and not even bothering to tell students until grades were already posted? Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. I know it is within her rights, but it was a jerk move.

 

[Kochanie]

W

I've never heard of a class being curved down at my school. It's one thing if she wants to change the curve, but changing it so drastically, changing it after the final had already been taken, and not even bothering to tell students until grades were already posted? Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. I know it is within her rights, but it was a jerk move.

So, she one-on-one told you that would be the cutoff for a B? Doesn't sound too official..

 

[Kochanie]

That's why I generally take honors courses even if the coursework is harder. They usually aren't graded on a curve and instead it's about your individual performance. It's a lot less stressful even if it's more physical work to be done. Everything is just a lot more transparent and everyone cooperates.

That sounds great, here a lot of guessing has to be done. My friend last quarter was doing above-average in my Biology class and got a B. He didn't think much of it until he asked his professor where he went wrong and found out it was an error.

 

[chenzt]

It's one thing if she wants to change the curve, but changing it so drastically, changing it after the final had already been taken, and not even bothering to tell students until grades were already posted? Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. I know it is within her rights, but it was a jerk move.

I don't understand. Was she suppose to announce the curve before the final? Without knowing how the class would do on the exam?

 

[alt12345]

I'm not so sure it is completely within the teacher's rights to do whatever she wants with the grades...at the very least, it's breaking a promise to the students. If the original grading system is on the syllabus and it was curved down, then you have, at the very least, grounds for dispute. I would get a copy of that and consult your advisor/any professor you feel comfortable with. Good luck! I would be incredibly disappointed with this...

Edit: So what is on the syllabus? That really has the final say here. Or if the original grading system is in writing.

 

[chenzt]

I'm not so sure it is completely within the teacher's rights to do whatever she wants with the grades...at the very least, it's breaking a promise to the students. If the original grading system is on the syllabus and it was curved down, then you have, at the very least, grounds for dispute. I would get a copy of that and consult your advisor/any professor you feel comfortable with. Good luck! I would be incredibly disappointed with this...

Edit: So what is on the syllabus? That really has the final say here. Or if the original grading system is in writing.

A 65% = B is no way a curve down... Less of a curve than she originally expected, but the original expectation of ~65/120 = B was in no way a guarantee nor does she needs to honor.

 

[James1992]

My ochem professor told us all that the cutoff for a B would be ~65/120 points. She just posted final grades, and emailed us telling us that she decided to do the grades by percents rather than points out of 120, so that 65% was a B. I scored a 51, 72, 77, and 77 points on the four exams, which averaged out to 69.25, plus I got 100% on the homeworks which was worth 10% of our grade. I thought I would be solidly in the B range. But if you turn those scores into percents (the exams being out of 120), I ended up with a C. I think this is completely unfair of her to change the grading scale at the last minute. People who were getting solid As on the exams got Bs in the class. I think this is worth bringing to the university. What should I do, who should I contact? I'm freaking out right now, I'm not a C student, I've only ever gotten one B in college before.

True this may seem a bit unfair, however, riding the borderline between B and C is your issue. If you were consistently hitting high B low A range then you wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[qwg]

My ochem professor told us all that the cutoff for a B would be ~65/120 points. She just posted final grades, and emailed us telling us that she decided to do the grades by percents rather than points out of 120, so that 65% was a B. I scored a 51, 72, 77, and 77 points on the four exams, which averaged out to 69.25, plus I got 100% on the homeworks which was worth 10% of our grade. I thought I would be solidly in the B range. But if you turn those scores into percents (the exams being out of 120), I ended up with a C. I think this is completely unfair of her to change the grading scale at the last minute. People who were getting solid As on the exams got Bs in the class. I think this is worth bringing to the university. What should I do, who should I contact? I'm freaking out right now, I'm not a C student, I've only ever gotten one B in college before.

Have you tried talking with her about this?

You'll want to avoid displaying too much of the panic you've shown here. Try to approach her calmly, explain how you see the situation, and ask if you misunderstood. If she explicitly outlined the 65/120 policy in the syllabus, you may want to bring a copy. Even if something different is in the syllabus, it may be useful to have a copy (for instance, you could say "Now, I know the syllabus says X, but it was my understanding that the grading policy would be Y based on what you said in class, emails, private conversations, etc.). It may also behoove you to remember that most schools mark 80% as the lower cutoff for a B.

 

[chenzt]

Edit: Read it wrong.

 

[Goro]

What does the course syllabus say? You might want to discuss this with the Prof, and if need be, the Dep't Chair.

My ochem professor told us all that the cutoff for a B would be ~65/120 points. She just posted final grades, and emailed us telling us that she decided to do the grades by percents rather than points out of 120, so that 65% was a B. I scored a 51, 72, 77, and 77 points on the four exams, which averaged out to 69.25, plus I got 100% on the homeworks which was worth 10% of our grade. I thought I would be solidly in the B range. But if you turn those scores into percents (the exams being out of 120), I ended up with a C. I think this is completely unfair of her to change the grading scale at the last minute. People who were getting solid As on the exams got Bs in the class. I think this is worth bringing to the university. What should I do, who should I contact? I'm freaking out right now, I'm not a C student, I've only ever gotten one B in college before.

 

[Lannister]

In the syllabus, she said that 90% was an A, but she quickly changed this after seeing how poorly we did on the first exam. She communicated this change in writing. Let me quote some of her emails for you guys.

After Exam 1: " If I had to assign letter grades based on this exam alone, it would be something along the lines of the following: 83-120 = A, 63-82 = B, 40-62 = C...I hope this helps make sense of your standing in the class."
To me, this implies that the class was being graded on points. Not on percents. The A range includes numbers over 100. Unless she was implying that you could score over 100%, these must be point values.

After Exam 2: " For midterm grades, averaging the first two exams, comes to:
A 85 and above
B 61-85
C 46-61
D 28-46
F below 28"
Nowhere in the email does she state if these are points or percentages. Seeing as she told us what was in the syllabus was inaccurate, all we had to go off of was the first email she sent, which implied a points system. I think it's logical that we would assume that these were point values.

After Exam 3, 2 days before the final: " The averages have been fairly consistent, so if you average your grade from the first three exams, you have a good idea of your overall grade at this point (based on what the numbers for the midterm grades were)."
I had a B at the midterm. Based on the midterm guidelines, I got a very solid B on the final.

 

[Lannister]

Sorry, I'm very upset but I'm trying to calm down. I emailed her explaining my situation. Several of my friends have emailed her as well. I also emailed my advisor asking for advice on what to do.

 

[bonnie12]

Hi OP,

After reading the profs emails, I think you misunderstood her. It doesn't seem like she is posting grade cut offs. She seems to be posting (based on current grades on exams) where a certain grade would land you at that specific time. This doesn't imply that a certain numerical grade equals a certain final letter grade . She is looking for a certain distribution. I think everyone did better on the final than the previous exams so she adjusted accordingly.

 

[alt12345]

In the syllabus, she said that 90% was an A, but she quickly changed this after seeing how poorly we did on the first exam. She communicated this change in writing. Let me quote some of her emails for you guys.

After Exam 1: " If I had to assign letter grades based on this exam alone, it would be something along the lines of the following: 83-120 = A, 63-82 = B, 40-62 = C...I hope this helps make sense of your standing in the class."
To me, this implies that the class was being graded on points. Not on percents. The A range includes numbers over 100. Unless she was implying that you could score over 100%, these must be point values.

After Exam 2: " For midterm grades, averaging the first two exams, comes to:
A 85 and above
B 61-85
C 46-61
D 28-46
F below 28"
Nowhere in the email does she state if these are points or percentages. Seeing as she told us what was in the syllabus was inaccurate, all we had to go off of was the first email she sent, which implied a points system. I think it's logical that we would assume that these were point values.

After Exam 3, 2 days before the final: " The averages have been fairly consistent, so if you average your grade from the first three exams, you have a good idea of your overall grade at this point (based on what the numbers for the midterm grades were)."
I had a B at the midterm. Based on the midterm guidelines, I got a very solid B on the final.

Really sorry but I think you are out of luck. It was a stretch to assume that the final will be graded in the same manner as the previous two exams, it sounds like the teacher used a curve and set cutoffs after all students had gotten their scores back. The emails were solely to give you an idea of your standing in the class, not a guide to figure your future grade. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything you can do.

A 65% = B is no way a curve down... Less of a curve than she originally expected, but the original expectation of ~65/120 = B was in no way a guarantee nor does she needs to honor.

I see what you are saying, and that would be horrible if 65% = B was considered curving down! I wasn't going by the traditional A = 93-97, A- = 90-92; etc. I gave up on that system after my first chemistry exam 🙂.

EDIT: I took a look at your MDApps. Don't worry! A C will not sink your application in the slightest. You are a great applicant and shouldn't have much trouble.

 

[Lannister]

It's not just that she changed the grade cutoffs, it's that she changed the way the class was being graded. Again, I would get changing the grade cutoffs if the final was significantly better (it was only a few points better than past averages, I believe, excluding the first exam which was inappropriately hard, as she acknowledged). And I get that those numbers were only an estimate of where we stood at the time. But she changed it from being a points system to being a percent system (or, at least, she failed to tell us that she was grading by percentages all semester). That's what's bothering me.

 

[Lannister]

Sorry, I know I'm being stubborn but I'm not ready to give up on this. I'm still waiting for her to respond to my email, and I will still probably contact undergraduate studies if I don't find her response helpful.

 

[BamaNicole]

I've never heard of a class being curved down at my school. It's one thing if she wants to change the curve, but changing it so drastically, changing it after the final had already been taken, and not even bothering to tell students until grades were already posted? Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. I know it is within her rights, but it was a jerk move.

My first quarter o-chem teacher curved down. He never told us how he wanted us to do our lab reports, refused to give them back til the end of the quarter and kept marking us down on formatting issues we didn't even realize we were making since we never got our reports back.

That dude was a jerk. He'd get so angry in lab if you asked him a question and if you came to office hours he was never there for lecture questions.

 

[alt12345]

It's not just that she changed the grade cutoffs, it's that she changed the way the class was being graded. Again, I would get changing the grade cutoffs if the final was significantly better (it was only a few points better than past averages, I believe, excluding the first exam which was inappropriately hard, as she acknowledged). And I get that those numbers were only an estimate of where we stood at the time. But she changed it from being a points system to being a percent system (or, at least, she failed to tell us that she was grading by percentages all semester). That's what's bothering me.

I guess I am being dumb, but what is the difference between a point system and a percent system? When she emailed you after that first exam, couldn't she have just changed the numbers of the awarded grades to percentages? Like instead of saying "If you got 40/50 points on the exam, then you get an A" she said "If you got 80% on the exam, then you get an A." Interchangeable to me, am I missing something?

In the end, the professor has a right to make the class more lenient than the syllabus but is on shaky ground if she makes the class less lenient than the syllabus. You risk falling into that "entitled premed" stereotype if you fight this too hard, so be careful.

 

[Lannister]

The exams were out of 120 points. So if a 65% is required to get a B, that would require a point score of 78. But I thought she meant 65 (well, 61 at the time she sent that email) points were required to get a B. That's a pretty big difference in points.

 

[Ryank327]

Judging by your other posts it was a misunderstanding on your part. If you were confused by anything during the semester you should have clarified. The professor referring to grades in both point and percentages isn't misleading, it is basic math. If the teacher changed the scale at the end it is because that is how the distribution ended up being, unfortunately you ended up not doing too well compared to your classmates. Let it be a lesson to you to not rely on the curve to save you.

 

[99445]

Dem's Da Berries

 

[hoihaie]

There is nothing you can do. Professors have the final say and they do not have to keep the"promises" they made to you prior. If you bring this to your university officials you will only waste your time on something that cannot be changed.

 

[youmed]

I believe she didn't change any policy. You misunderstood her email, somewhat biasing toward the grading scale that you thought was more favorable to you.

 

[Lannister]

Lol literally like every person in the class emailed her in outrage, and she ended up changing the grade cutoffs back to points. So I got my B. That was slightly traumatic.

 

[mehc012]

Professors often change their cutoffs after students do better or worse than they expected them to. That's why they don't usually put a guaranteed grading scale in their syllabi. I got a D with a 70% in Orgo, you're fine, move on. College isn't like high school, you're compared to others for grades.

I have never seen a prof NOT put a guaranteed grading scale on the syllabus. You are expected to manage your time, and honestly, a clear syllabus helps you to do that. If the cutoff for an 'A' is a 90 and you have a 95%, you should put more effort into the class where you are 1pt above the grade cutoff. If you have a mid-B and can't salvage it, but could salvage an A in another course by prioritizing it, you should do that.
Syllabi are there for a reason, the prof should stick to them.

 

[Boolean]

Lol literally like every person in the class emailed her in outrage, and she ended up changing the grade cutoffs back to points. So I got my B. That was slightly traumatic.

Now, log off SDN and take a nice cold bath and let your heart and brain return to their normal operating capacity.

 

[orangeman25]

I got my first C because I was 2/1000's of a point away from a B. Worst than that, I was marked down for more absences by my TA than I really was, which was worth >20 points. I emailed my professor twice, and he never even responded.

Got a C in Ethics, lmao , thats probably why I'm not getting into medical school

Don't even worry about getting that grade in such BS classes. If you have strong grades in science class, no one is gonna give a hoot on how you did on some random humanity class

 

[hubriz]

In the syllabus, she said that 90% was an A, but she quickly changed this after seeing how poorly we did on the first exam. She communicated this change in writing. Let me quote some of her emails for you guys.

After Exam 1: " If I had to assign letter grades based on this exam alone, it would be something along the lines of the following: 83-120 = A, 63-82 = B, 40-62 = C...I hope this helps make sense of your standing in the class."
To me, this implies that the class was being graded on points. Not on percents. The A range includes numbers over 100. Unless she was implying that you could score over 100%, these must be point values.

After Exam 2: " For midterm grades, averaging the first two exams, comes to:
A 85 and above
B 61-85
C 46-61
D 28-46
F below 28"
Nowhere in the email does she state if these are points or percentages. Seeing as she told us what was in the syllabus was inaccurate, all we had to go off of was the first email she sent, which implied a points system. I think it's logical that we would assume that these were point values.

After Exam 3, 2 days before the final: " The averages have been fairly consistent, so if you average your grade from the first three exams, you have a good idea of your overall grade at this point (based on what the numbers for the midterm grades were)."
I had a B at the midterm. Based on the midterm guidelines, I got a very solid B on the final.

This is a ridiculous way to grade. The ambiguity between percent- and point-based doesn't help, but she certainly cannot move the targets and put her class at a disadvantage; it is not a matter of discretion, but instead is one of university regulations, which should be easy to get a hold of in your student/university handbook. You probably have an excellent case for getting a B.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

To be honest I don't think the University will sympathy for you. It sounds like you did what you had to do to coast? I may be wrong but it sounds like you knew what would lead to a B and only invested as much. Since curves are completely dependent on the professor and the distribution of the class there is not guarantee if you only perform according to an expected curve. If she said, "the curve will likely be around 65" that isn't really anything to argue with if the distribution didn't match her expectations...

I'd hate it if it were me of course. But I don't think this is grounds for institutional involvement.

 

[mehc012]

To be honest I don't think the University will sympathy for you. It sounds like you did what you had to do to coast? I may be wrong but it sounds like you knew what would lead to a B and only invested as much. Since curves are completely dependent on the professor and the distribution of the class there is not guarantee if you only perform according to an expected curve. If she said, "the curve will likely be around 65" that isn't really anything to argue with if the distribution didn't match her expectations...

I'd hate it if it were me of course. But I don't think this is grounds for institutional involvement.

a) the Prof already did have sympathy and the issue is done...the thread should be closed, honestly
b) You should always prioritize your time. Improving your grade from an 82% to an 87% is a terrible use of time when you have other classes, perhaps some of which could be improved from, say, an 89% to a 92% with the same amount of effort.
c) If you read the thread more closely, the prof's emails are quoted, giving a very different scenario from the one you are discussing.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

a) the Prof already did have sympathy and the issue is done...the thread should be closed, honestly
b) You should always prioritize your time. Improving your grade from an 82% to an 87% is a terrible use of time when you have other classes, perhaps some of which could be improved from, say, an 89% to a 92% with the same amount of effort.
c) If you read the thread more closely, the prof's emails are quoted, giving a very different scenario from the one you are discussing.

Yeah read it after the email quotes after. Being that most threads have pointless pages of nonesense I looked for the OP's initial posts. Prioritizing time and all lol

The second email is entirely subject to interpretation however. As far as prioritizing time OP decided performance after the first test. One could argues that could have been one of the 92% classes. But alas the issue was solved

 

[Boolean]

Don't even worry about getting that grade in such BS classes. If you have strong grades in science class, no one is gonna give a hoot on how you did on some random humanity class

This is not completely true. If low grades in humanities classes tends to be a trend, adcoms may be wary of the reasons…

 

[terp720]

Lol literally like every person in the class emailed her in outrage, and she ended up changing the grade cutoffs back to points. So I got my B. That was slightly traumatic.

you should just edit your OP with this

 

[Lannister]

Sorry but I didn't do "what I had to do to coast". I did poorly on the first exam and did like 500 practice problems before the second exam to improve my score. I continued to try hard throughout the semester. Just because I wasn't getting As doesn't mean I wasn't putting in effort.

 

[Lucca]

Sorry but I didn't do "what I had to do to coast". I did poorly on the first exam and did like 500 practice problems before the second exam to improve my score. I continued to try hard throughout the semester. Just because I wasn't getting As doesn't mean I wasn't putting in effort.

If it makes you feel better this just happened to me in a random two-credit course lol. I'm getting a B+ instead of an A and losing my 4.0. Oh well, life goes on. Your case is far graver and my sympathies. But yah there's basically nothing you can do about it.

 

[terp720]

If it makes you feel better this just happened to me in a random two-credit course lol. I'm getting a B+ instead of an A and losing my 4.0. Oh well, life goes on. Your case is far graver and my sympathies. But yah there's basically nothing you can do about it.

except everyone did email the prof..and OP ended up with his B instead of C.

problems solved!