Texas academic fresh start question

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Dereck

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I took my last course 3 years ago.

If I begin taking classes now and apply to medical schools in 7 years, will my future courses be the only consideration when applying?

Can I begin taking these courses outside of Texas, then apply for "fresh start" at a Texas college to finish up my "new" undergraduate education before applying to medical schools?

Thank you.

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I took my last course 3 years ago.

If I begin taking classes now and apply to medical schools in 7 years, will my future courses be the only consideration when applying?

Can I begin taking these courses outside of Texas, then apply for "fresh start" at a Texas college to finish up my "new" undergraduate education before applying to medical schools

check this out https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/texasAcFrshStrt.html
 
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Finally, I found this statement from a previous thread

"To be able to quailify for fresh start a student cannot already have a bachelors degree and I already had one"

Is this accurate? If so I'm screwed. Can't find it anywhere in the literature.
 
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You're welcome. if you do not have luck with TX fresh start. you may want to check TN, only if you're interested.
 
You're welcome. if you do not have luck with TX fresh start. you may want to check TN, only if you're interested.
Way to drop a bombshell...this is news.

I don't see evidence that TN's academic fresh start is accepted by TN's medical schools. Also there are only a couple public med schools in TN (vs about 10 in TX). But very interesting nonetheless.
 
The question isn't whether undergrad schools can do things. It's whether any medical schools will respect a grade forgiveness policy. I can't tell if the TN regents have any authority over TN med schools. I have limited connectivity right now, but I wasn't able to find evidence of this.

Despite popularity on SDN, the basic motivation for a state to allow undergrad or grad grade forgiveness isn't so people can go to med school. It's to get people to finish their degree.
 
Agreed!. However, In my humble opinion I think when such policies are proposed/enforced it should be respected and honored by any school. I completely understand that TX medical school are exceptional to that rule since they fall under different application umbrella, but you/we need to consider and appreciate the fact that AACOMAS allows grade replacement which is pretty much equivalent to fresh start/ academic renewal.
Actually, it motivates/ gives hope to most of the students / non trad who may have flunked their undergrad due to extenuating circumstances or the other to get a legit second chance.
It does not necessarily mean that we could get accepted, but trial is the first step towards invention
 
This is nontrad. We don't do unicorns here.

There are boatloads of premeds who recover from low GPAs to get into US MD and DO schools, in much less time, by producing the strong multi-year mostly-science academic effort expected of premeds, such as by doing a 2nd bachelors.
 
Finally, I found this statement from a previous thread

"To be able to quailify for fresh start a student cannot already have a bachelors degree and I already had one"

Is this accurate? If so I'm screwed. Can't find it anywhere in the literature.
Hi Dereck. I am pursuing the academic fresh start route and this is definitely not true. You could have previously obtained a bachelor's degree. I have a bachelors degree from 2001, and even a masters degree. Any courses taken within 10 years prior to when you declare academic fresh start will be calculated in your GPA.
 
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Hi Dereck. I am pursuing the academic fresh start route and this is definitely not true. You could have previously obtained a bachelor's degree. I have a bachelors degree from 2001, and even a masters degree. Any courses taken within 10 years prior to when you declare academic fresh start will be calculated in your GPA.

So the date you declare it is what becomes the boundary marker?

For example

-60 hrs in 2004

-60 hrs in 2009

Declare AFS in 2015 (at this point, the 60 hrs from 2004 would be wiped out, but the 60 hrs from 2009 would not)
- take another 60 hrs and earn a degree from 2015-2020

-Apply for Med school in 2020
= Now that its 2020, the 60 hrs from 2009 are more than 10 years old. Does that not matter and you get to keep them since the 10 year window was frozen in 2015 when you initially declared AFS as an undergrad?
 
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So the date you declare it is what becomes the boundary marker?

For example

-60 hrs in 2004

-60 hrs in 2009

Declare AFS in 2015 (at this point, the 60 hrs from 2004 would be wiped out, but the 60 hrs from 2009 would not)
- take another 60 hrs and earn a degree from 2015-2020

-Apply for Med school in 2020
= Now that its 2020, the 60 hrs from 2009 are more than 10 years old. Does that not matter and you get to keep them since the 10 year window was frozen in 2015 when you initially declared AFS as an undergrad?

Dude, how many times are you going to keep asking the same question? Yes, that is how it works. Finis.
 
Dude, how many times are you going to keep asking the same question? Yes, that is how it works. Finis.

Not any more since I confirmed twice with TMDSAS that this is indeed the case :)

The larger issue it seems now is that everyone offers AFS but TMDSAS only accepts "Certain Kinds" of AFS. I was under the impression that any AFS provision at a public school would work, but I was told by a rep today that is not the case. I was told for example that the AFS provision provided by The University of Houston does not qualify for TMDSAS. So my next step is to either get a letter from the registrar certifying my enrollment under AFS or getting a copy of my transcript stating that and then submitting that info to TMDSAS to ensure it meets their standards. It seems there is very little familiarity of the law with every admissions dept I've spoken to (TCC, UTA, UNT so far).
 
Not any more since I confirmed twice with TMDSAS that this is indeed the case :)

The larger issue it seems now is that everyone offers AFS but TMDSAS only accepts "Certain Kinds" of AFS. I was under the impression that any AFS provision at a public school would work, but I was told by a rep today that is not the case. I was told for example that the AFS provision provided by The University of Houston does not qualify for TMDSAS. So my next step is to either get a letter from the registrar certifying my enrollment under AFS or getting a copy of my transcript stating that and then submitting that info to TMDSAS to ensure it meets their standards. It seems there is very little familiarity of the law with every admissions dept I've spoken to (TCC, UTA, UNT so far).

Could you elaborate on what you meant by what the TMDAS told you? Are you saying that they do not accept AFS from UH?
 
Could you elaborate on what you meant by what the TMDAS told you? Are you saying that they do not accept AFS from UH?

This is what the lady I spoke with on the phone told me. I believe her name was Anne. However, I would call or email them directly and ask for Nicole, she is the actual director and she has been much more helpful at getting to the bottom of things. She's ofc the big boss anyway so if you get something in writing from her it will be hard for them to take it back. Nicole may tell you differently than what I was told on the phone and if you can get it from her in writing you can have reasonable certainty that your AFS will be accepted by TMDSAS when you fill out your application.
 
This is what the lady I spoke with on the phone told me. I believe her name was Anne. However, I would call or email them directly and ask for Nicole, she is the actual director and she has been much more helpful at getting to the bottom of things. She's ofc the big boss anyway so if you get something in writing from her it will be hard for them to take it back. Nicole may tell you differently than what I was told on the phone and if you can get it from her in writing you can have reasonable certainty that your AFS will be accepted by TMDSAS when you fill out your application.


So someone on the phone contradicted this?: https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/texasAcFrshStrt.html

I called the other day and the person seemed to resonate what is on the page there.
 
Well the lady who told me the UH AFS program was not acceptable didn't contradict what that page was saying, she simple said "not all AFS qualify." I told her I understood that Private university's AFS wouldn't qualify, but posed the question "AFS at any Public uni is fine, correct?" This is when she told me "No, for example UH has an internal AFS that does not qualify." That is what sent me on a tizzy trying to ensure that UNT/UTA AFS would count. TBH I'm not entirely sure she knew what she was talking about however, as my interpretation of the statute is that public universities don't really have a choice in the matter; if you elect AFS they have to at least consider it and if they accept it, then TMDSAS has to accept it.

I would be willing to wager that anyone who applied to AFS at a public uni and got accepted under the program and later had AFS denied by TMDSAS could in fact file suit and win against TMDSAS, but its much simpler (and cheaper) to just dance around their do's and don't's up front and get something they will accept without too much hassle.
 
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This is nontrad. We don't do unicorns here.

There are boatloads of premeds who recover from low GPAs to get into US MD and DO schools, in much less time, by producing the strong multi-year mostly-science academic effort expected of premeds, such as by doing a 2nd bachelors.
Was your second bachelor's degree weighted with the first?
 
Was your second bachelor's degree weighted with the first?
All undergrad work is averaged together.

The app service (AMCAS, AACOMAS, TMDSAS) produces a report that includes cumulative GPAs, and also breaks them down by Fr/So/Jr/Sr/Postbac.

Schools can do whatever they like with the GPA data, such as use a weighting. I don't think anybody does this anymore.
 
Anyone care to quickly chime in? I already earned my Associate's degree in 2012 and a Bachelor's degree in 2015 from a transfer University. At a community college I enrolled under Texas Academic Fresh Start this summer and completed a course. It is only at this community college that I have old coursework and I have 4 core courses older than 2006. None of these core classes are pre-requisites for medical school, but they are required for a degree that I already earned. A French course, 2 history courses and Art History. She is saying I will no longer be core complete and lose my associate's degree.
Does this sound correct to anyone? I have read contradicting things to what she is telling me.
All courses required:
Biology/Lab
Physics/Lab
English
Biochem
Statistics/Calculus
O-chem/Lab
Were taken after 2010 and will not be affected.

".....when you do a fresh start, everything gets wiped out, not just courses, anything that falls under the fresh start dates is taken off your acct. That includes TSI, courses, degrees etc."
 
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do you care about your AA degree? if that's the only thing in play, let it go.
 
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do you care about your AA degree? if that's the only thing in play, let it go.
No, I do not mind at all. I was just double checking things before I said to go ahead. I only see English as one of the core requirements needed for medical schools and I took those after 2011.
I plan to apply for DO schools as well as TMDSAS. I am just trying to imagine some scenario where her warnings would cause me issues. I can afford to lose Art History, History, and French.
My Bachelor's from another school shouldn't be affected I suppose.
 
As I read the law, it simply means that institutions you apply to in Texas cannot hold courses against you, it does nothing to actually negate the courses you took. For example, I have ~ 24 hrs from YSU that will be "wiped out" under the AFS. That doesn't mean YSU wipes them out though; as far as they are concerned nothing has changed. The only place it matters is where I apply (undergrad/grad). For the schools I apply to, those grades/classes cannot be used for anything (prereq's/grades etc). So in my case, I have to retake English 1 and Chem 1 even though I've already had them and passed them, but it only matters at the institution I'm attending, not the institution I previously attended. So, if I had earned an associates at YSU, then used AFS at UNT, I couldn't use any of those prereqs to satisfy any UNT core, but YSU wouldn't delete my degree. You might not be core complete at the new school but if your degree is from a different school I don't think your enrollment in AFS at a different institution does anything to a degree you earned elsewhere.
 
As I read the law, it simply means that institutions you apply to in Texas cannot hold courses against you, it does nothing to actually negate the courses you took. For example, I have ~ 24 hrs from YSU that will be "wiped out" under the AFS. That doesn't mean YSU wipes them out though; as far as they are concerned nothing has changed. The only place it matters is where I apply (undergrad/grad). For the schools I apply to, those grades/classes cannot be used for anything (prereq's/grades etc). So in my case, I have to retake English 1 and Chem 1 even though I've already had them and passed them, but it only matters at the institution I'm attending, not the institution I previously attended. So, if I had earned an associates at YSU, then used AFS at UNT, I couldn't use any of those prereqs to satisfy any UNT core, but YSU wouldn't delete my degree. You might not be core complete at the new school but if your degree is from a different school I don't think your enrollment in AFS at a different institution does anything to a degree you earned elsewhere.
The way I understood it is exactly how you were describing it.
I was being told differently. I earned an Certificate of Technology in 2000 and an AA in 2012 from SJC. I then enrolled under AFS at SJC in the summer of 2016 to "wipe" out courses prior to Summer 2006. 4 core courses at SJC predate 2006, so they would be lost. The lady there told me that because I lose those courses, I would also lose that AA degree already earned. I used my AA courses to transfer to a 4-year and graduated in 2015. Because I already have that diploma on my wall at UH, I would think it is safe under the AFS. All of my med school pre-requistes are from 2011-2015.

I was thinking they left everything on the transcript and just put a notation on the term where AFS is enacted and then TMDSAS would screen the GPA where it was notated on the transcript. After my transcripts were verified, my GPA would be verified by TMDSAS.
These emails I got from enrollment services made it sound as if they would scrub it completely from existence.
 
My understanding from TMDSAS was that they actually report on your application that you attended "X" school but don't show any classes you took that were removed due to AFS. So, for example, if you took 5 basket weaving courses at UT Austin and failed all 5, TMDSAS would show you attended UT Austin but wouldn't show what classes you took or what grades you received; so even with AFS and TMDSAS they don't scrub the attendance completely. Honestly, I can't imagine it not coming up in an interview where someone says "I see you attended "X" university but don't have any courses/grades." At that point I guess it will be up to the individual to "sell" the AFS reason. Probably the biggest benefit then of AFS is to keep from getting automatically screened out for GPA. Another incentive is that the schools will only have to report your GPA earned under AFS in their stats so they are probably more likely to accept someone if they don't have to have their stats dragged down.
 
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My understanding from TMDSAS was that they actually report on your application that you attended "X" school but don't show any classes you took that were removed due to AFS. So, for example, if you took 5 basket weaving courses at UT Austin and failed all 5, TMDSAS would show you attended UT Austin but wouldn't show what classes you took or what grades you received; so even with AFS and TMDSAS they don't scrub the attendance completely. Honestly, I can't imagine it not coming up in an interview where someone says "I see you attended "X" university but don't have any courses/grades." At that point I guess it will be up to the individual to "sell" the AFS reason. Probably the biggest benefit then of AFS is to keep from getting automatically screened out for GPA. Another incentive is that the schools will only have to report your GPA earned under AFS in their stats so they are probably more likely to accept someone if they don't have to have their stats dragged down.
It has been 2 days and there is a hold on my account at the AFS school for reasons: "Working on AFS"
TMDSAS is waiting for my transcript from this school, but after entering all of my coursework including those that should not be considered after AFS takes effect, I have:
Overal GPA 3.14
Overal BCPM GPA 3.74
Undergrad GPA 3.14
Undergrad BCPM GPA 3.74
Undergrad non-BCPM GPA 2.56
I was told no I wasn't eiligible by two of their people at enrollment services and I had to ask them to double check before they finally brought me the forms I needed. They did not seem to have much experience with this. I think they wanted me to back out when they kept asking "are you sure you want to do this?" I feel like a thorn in their sides at this moment. I wish they would hurry so my texas applications can get complete.
 
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I feel your pain, I got quite the run around when I went through the process as well (and at least one SDN flamer who QQ'd b/c I kept asking the same question even though I was getting multiple answers from multiple credible sources). At the end of the day, I got an email from the director of AFS at TMDAS stating my current situation (a letter from registrar's, worded exactly as TMDSAS requested and sent to them) was acceptable for them. If you have any doubts, contact TMDSAS directly, they are actually quite helpful.
 
I feel your pain, I got quite the run around when I went through the process as well (and at least one SDN flamer who QQ'd b/c I kept asking the same question even though I was getting multiple answers from multiple credible sources). At the end of the day, I got an email from the director of AFS at TMDAS stating my current situation (a letter from registrar's, worded exactly as TMDSAS requested and sent to them) was acceptable for them. If you have any doubts, contact TMDSAS directly, they are actually quite helpful.
Friday just passed without my transcipt processed updated or even viewable. If I had known that almost 4 days would have gone by without them altering my transcript, I would have asked that they mail an unchanged transript with a letter from the registrar certifying that I had in fact enrolled and completed a course under AFS to TMDSAS. I must have refreshed my college transcript page 20 times in the last few days ready to get this thing moving. I wish I had called them. Frustrating. So much for applying early.
 
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Which schools were you all able to declare Academic Fresh Start at if you already completed a 1st Bachelor's?

I'm having trouble finding a school in Texas that will let me enroll as Academic Fresh Start. (either as 2nd Bachelor's or non degree seeking) For instance, UNT and TWU both say I'm not eligible to enroll and declare Fresh Start due to already having a bachelor's degree.

Does anyone know of any TX schools that let someone already with a bachelor's declare AFS....? (Dallas Ft Worth area preferred)

Thanks in advance!
 
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Which schools were you all able to declare Academic Fresh Start at if you already completed a 1st Bachelor's?

I'm having trouble finding a school in Texas that will let me enroll as Academic Fresh Start. (either as 2nd Bachelor's or non degree seeking) For instance, UNT and TWU both say I'm not eligible to enroll and declare Fresh Start due to already having a bachelor's degree.

Does anyone know of any TX schools that let someone already with a bachelor's declare AFS....? (Dallas Ft Worth area preferred)

Thanks in advance!
I think all Texas schools do Texas AFS if you are eligible for it.
I already had my bachelor's degree when I enrolled under Fresh Start. I applied for AFS enrollment at a community college. I wasn't enrolled there for a full year before I declared AFS, which must be done at the time of enrollment. Some schools may have their own "in-house" Fresh Start, but make sure that you enroll under the one with the academic code. It is Texas law, so I don't know that they can deny it to you, if you are eligible under (Section 51.931 of the Texas Education Code) Not sure if this is only for Public schools.

They originally said "You can't do this because ......." Then I stood my ground and had the info that said otherwise, they got another enrollment adviser that said the same thing. I stood my ground and then they came back with the proper forms. Just do your research on it and find out if you are eligible before you talk to the enrollment people. Many of them are inexperienced with this stuff so be patient and bring supporting documents with you just in case. I emailed them all the info from TMDSAS about AFS as well so they knew what TMDSAS needed to see for it to be official.

Check TMDSAS website and use the search function. Perhaps bring that to them so they understand what you are doing. I had to do that. They seemed confused why I would be enrolling with AFS.
 
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Thanks for your response, CastleG8! Are you comfortable sharing which CC you were able to successfully declare it at? (I may give them a call and try and find a class to take there if it's within driving distance in DFW) No worries if you aren't comfortable sharing, but any tips would be appreciated.

Also, where are you planning to do your actual post bacc classes? (I recall reading somewhere on this forum that CC courses aren't recommended for the actual pre-reqs... are you planning to do yours somewhere else?)

Good luck with your journey!
I think all Texas schools do Texas AFS if you are eligible for it.
I already had my bachelor's degree when I enrolled under Fresh Start. I applied for AFS enrollment at a community college. I wasn't enrolled there for a full year before I declared AFS, which must be done at the time of enrollment. Some schools may have their own "in-house" Fresh Start, but make sure that you enroll under the one with the academic code. It is Texas law, so I don't know that they can deny it to you, if you are eligible under (Section 51.931 of the Texas Education Code) Not sure if this is only for Public schools.

They originally said "You can't do this because ......." Then I stood my ground and had the info that said otherwise, they got another enrollment adviser that said the same thing. I stood my ground and then they came back with the proper forms. Just do your research on it and find out if you are eligible before you talk to the enrollment people. Many of them are inexperienced with this stuff so be patient and bring supporting documents with you just in case. I emailed them all the info from TMDSAS about AFS as well so they knew what TMDSAS needed to see for it to be official.

Check TMDSAS website and use the search function. Perhaps bring that to them so they understand what you are doing. I had to do that. They seemed confused why I would be enrolling with AFS.
 
P.S. For those of you who declared or are planning to declare Texas' Academic Fresh Start, did you declare it before / at the time you applied to take your science pre-reqs in Texas (either as a post bacc, 2nd bachelor's, non degree, etc.) and before beginning the post bacc?

Or did any of you successfully "test the waters" and take science pre reqs without declaring Fresh Start... and then declare it later at another school (ex: community college) after getting a few good grades in recent pre-reqs under your belt?

I'm wondering if it's possible to declare it successfully later at another institution (can't be the same one you enroll in if you're already enrolled) via just 1 class at a Community College, etc. after getting a few good grades and ensuring you do want your past record wiped.....rather than declare it without starting post bacc yet and throwing out all of your undergrad credits while hoping for the best in terms of grades.
 
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I applied for AFS right away; you basically have to from what I understand. I did not have a degree however when I applied. I see no stipulation in the regulation that would prevent someone with a degree from doing it as well however. If all else fails, contact your representative and have them contact the school on your behalf. The amount of hoops I had to jump through between UNT and TMDSAS were monumental, but worth it in the end.
 
Long Version:

This is what I did. I had taken courses from around 2000 to 2006, off and on, and had received a handful of Fs for failing to properly withdraw from courses and being newb at life. I took courses mostly for a vocational program. I earned for myself an academic suspension and then enlisted in the military for some years. After figuring out how to screw my head on straight, I returned to that same community college as a full-time student working towards my Associates. I earned the AA degree and then transferred to a University. I had to start from scratch because my old credits were mostly for a tech program and didn't count towards a bachelors degree. From 2011 to 2015 I completed over 120 credits hrs and received my bachelors degree after taking all my med school pre-reqs. (~2011-2015)

This summer I returned to my old CC and asked for the forms to enroll under the Texas AFS. My last bad semester with them was in 2006. They were confused about my request because I had previously attended there and finished my AA degree in 2012. They said that I couldn't do it because it has to be done when you first enroll there, or something like that. I told them that more than a year had passed since I last attended a class at their institution and I was seeking to re-enroll for a credit class under the AFS. They eventually allowed me to do it after a short pow wow session.

I completed the summer course and then they changed my transcript. All of my old letter grades remained on my official transcript for this school, but they zeroed all of the Quality Points and Earned Hours to 0.0. for the courses beyond 10 years ago.

They annotated on my official transcript:
"ACADEMIC FRESH START INVOKED:
DISREGARD ALL COLLEGE COURSEWORK
TAKEN TEN (10) OR MORE YEARS PRIOR TO
SUMMER 2016 SEMESTER"

My overall GPA at this CC changed from ~2.9 to a ~3.8 after they did my AFS
My University transcript was unaffected and my GPA with them for 2 years of courses is around a 3.8

None of my courses were retakes and the AFS caused me to lose a few core classes that I took in 2005 (art history and 2 history courses) Because I was no longer core complete, they removed my Associates Degree that I earned in 2012. I already had my Bachelors degree and when I transferred there to the University in 2012 they accepted me as core complete.
TMDSAS is still waiting on my transcript from the CC with the AFS, but it was mailed out a week ago. When they receive my transcript and change around my GPA, I will let you know how they do it.

I still entered all of my courses and letter grades earned, even the ones that AFS says are to be disregard for GPA into my TMDSAS application. I will now depend on TMDSAS to do their part and honor the AFS, which they said they will do if the transcript indicates that I had enrolled in AFS and the term it was enacted is on the official transcript.

TLDR:
Bad grades earned: ~2000-2006 in vocational courses / military years / ~2011 - 2015 returned as full-time student, took all med school pre-reqs. / 2015 completed bachelors / 2016 enrolled for a summer class under AFS / 2016 AFS put on my CC transcript / only grades earned since 2007 to present are counted towards GPA for my TMDSAS application before my app. *pending results*


I hope this helps anyone else in my situation. I spent many hours of planning and researching this option. Your situation may be different based on your academic history and timeline.

Thanks for your response, CastleG8! Are you comfortable sharing which CC you were able to successfully declare it at? (I may give them a call and try and find a class to take there if it's within driving distance in DFW) No worries if you aren't comfortable sharing, but any tips would be appreciated.

Also, where are you planning to do your actual post bacc classes? (I recall reading somewhere on this forum that CC courses aren't recommended for the actual pre-reqs... are you planning to do yours somewhere else?)

Good luck with your journey!
 
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P.S. For those of you who declared or are planning to declare Texas' Academic Fresh Start, did you declare it before / at the time you applied to take your science pre-reqs in Texas (either as a post bacc, 2nd bachelor's, non degree, etc.) and before beginning the post bacc?

Or did any of you successfully "test the waters" and take science pre reqs without declaring Fresh Start... and then declare it later at another school (ex: community college) after getting a few good grades in recent pre-reqs under your belt?

I'm wondering if it's possible to declare it successfully later at another institution (can't be the same one you enroll in if you're already enrolled) via just 1 class at a Community College, etc. after getting a few good grades and ensuring you do want your past record wiped.....rather than declare it without starting post bacc yet and throwing out all of your undergrad credits while hoping for the best in terms of grades.

Let me know if you're ever able to figure this out. I'm in the exact same boat. Just called and was shot down by UNT... :( After speaking with TMDSAS, all they wanted was the 1 class like you mentioned. I'm also on the hunt for a Comm College in the DFW area who will let me declare AFS after already having a bachelors.
 
Let me know if you're ever able to figure this out. I'm in the exact same boat. Just called and was shot down by UNT... :( After speaking with TMDSAS, all they wanted was the 1 class like you mentioned. I'm also on the hunt for a Comm College in the DFW area who will let me declare AFS after already having a bachelors.

dont waste your time with TCC then, they will only do AFS for courses you took there.
 
Lol. I found that out today the hard way... Let's just say the interaction I had with the registrar was less than pleasant. :unsure:
Were you able to find a CC in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area willing to accept you under Fresh Start? I'm looking for the same thing.
 
Were you able to find a CC in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area willing to accept you under Fresh Start? I'm looking for the same thing.
Nope. :( Pretty sure I'm going to give up on FS. I've called several dental schools who are interested in me as a non-trad with an interesting story, despite my crappy GPAs, so I don't think it will matter.
 
I think all Texas schools do Texas AFS if you are eligible for it.
I already had my bachelor's degree when I enrolled under Fresh Start. I applied for AFS enrollment at a community college. I wasn't enrolled there for a full year before I declared AFS, which must be done at the time of enrollment. Some schools may have their own "in-house" Fresh Start, but make sure that you enroll under the one with the academic code. It is Texas law, so I don't know that they can deny it to you, if you are eligible under (Section 51.931 of the Texas Education Code) Not sure if this is only for Public schools.

They originally said "You can't do this because ......." Then I stood my ground and had the info that said otherwise, they got another enrollment adviser that said the same thing. I stood my ground and then they came back with the proper forms. Just do your research on it and find out if you are eligible before you talk to the enrollment people. Many of them are inexperienced with this stuff so be patient and bring supporting documents with you just in case. I emailed them all the info from TMDSAS about AFS as well so they knew what TMDSAS needed to see for it to be official.

Check TMDSAS website and use the search function. Perhaps bring that to them so they understand what you are doing. I had to do that. They seemed confused why I would be enrolling with AFS.

What supporting documents did you bring? I am also meeting resistance due to having a Bachelor's degree, but see no reason why they'd want to deny me for that reason.
 
I applied for AFS right away; you basically have to from what I understand. I did not have a degree however when I applied. I see no stipulation in the regulation that would prevent someone with a degree from doing it as well however. If all else fails, contact your representative and have them contact the school on your behalf. The amount of hoops I had to jump through between UNT and TMDSAS were monumental, but worth it in the end.

What do you mean when you mention contacting a representative. Who is this representative? I feel like getting someone on my side to help me convince UNT that having a degree is not a barrier under Texas law would be of the benefit.
 
Let me know if you're ever able to figure this out. I'm in the exact same boat. Just called and was shot down by UNT... :( After speaking with TMDSAS, all they wanted was the 1 class like you mentioned. I'm also on the hunt for a Comm College in the DFW area who will let me declare AFS after already having a bachelors.

Let me know if you found a school willing to admit you under AFS. Going through the same thing now.
 
AFS is only applicable to public schools in TX with the caveat that the school's Admissions Director has final authority. So if there is resistance, do your best Atticus Finch. Private schools do not have to follow the AFS provisions period.
 
Based on the following sections of the Texas Education Code, I do not see how it is possible for any school to deny you admission under AFS, regardless of having previously earned a Bachelor's degree or not. I'm not sure that they are aware of the actual wording of the law. When you speak to the admissions counselors, most of them cite the "College For All Texans" website that has a simplified explanation, but does not outline the state law itself.

I am going to bring it to their attention and see if I can get some of these schools to turn their decisions around. I may be unsuccessful but it does seem that the law requires them to admit you under AFS as long as you are a resident and would otherwise be admitted via their standard admission process. None of these schools that have denied students admission under AFS would refuse to admit you simply because you've already earned a Bachelor's degree. Because of this the law states that they have to admit you under AFS. I just don't think anyone who's tried applying under AFS with a prior Bachelor's degree has come at them with the actual code.


Sec. 51.931. RIGHT TO AN ACADEMIC FRESH START. (a) This section applies to any public institution of higher education as defined in Section 61.003 of this code.

(b) Unless otherwise prohibited by law, a resident of this state is entitled to apply for admission to and enroll as an undergraduate student in any public institution of higher education under this section.

(c) If an applicant elects to seek admission under this section, a public institution of higher education, in considering the applicant for admission, shall not consider academic course credits or grades earned by the applicant 10 or more years prior to the starting date of the semester in which the applicant seeks to enroll. An applicant who makes the election to apply under this section and is admitted as a student may not receive any course credit for courses undertaken 10 or more years prior to enrollment under this section.

(d) If a student who enrolls under this section completes a prescribed course of study, earns a baccalaureate degree, and applies for admission to a postgraduate or professional program offered by a public institution of higher education, the institution, in considering the applicant for admission into the postgraduate or professional program, shall consider only the grade point average of the applicant established by the course work completed after enrollment under this section, along with any other criteria the institution uses in evaluating applicants for admission into the postgraduate or professional program.

(e) Nothing in this section prohibits a public institution of higher education from applying standard admissions criteria generally applicable to persons seeking admission to the institution.




Sec. 61.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Board" means the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.

(2) "Public junior college" means any junior college certified by the board in accordance with Section 61.063 of this chapter.

(3) "General academic teaching institution" means The University of Texas at Austin; The University of Texas at El Paso; The University of Texas of the Permian Basin; The University of Texas at Dallas; The University of Texas at San Antonio; Texas A&M University, Main University; The University of Texas at Arlington; Tarleton State University; Prairie View A&M University; Texas Maritime Academy; Texas Tech University; University of North Texas; Lamar University; Lamar State College--Orange; Lamar State College--Port Arthur; Texas A&M University--Kingsville; Texas A&M University--Corpus Christi; Texas Woman's University; Texas Southern University; Midwestern State University; University of Houston; University of Texas--Pan American; The University of Texas at Brownsville; Texas A&M University--Commerce; Sam Houston State University; Texas State University; West Texas A&M University; Stephen F. Austin State University; Sul Ross State University; Angelo State University; The University of Texas at Tyler; and any other college, university, or institution so classified as provided in this chapter or created and so classified, expressly or impliedly, by law.

(4) "Public senior college or university" means a general academic teaching institution as defined above.

(5) "Medical and dental unit" means The Texas A&M University System Health Science Center and its component institutions, agencies, and programs; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center at El Paso; The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston; The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center; The University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Dental Branch at Houston; The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center; The University of Texas Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences at Houston; The University of Texas Dental School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Medical School at Houston; The University of Texas Health Science Center--South Texas and its component institutions, if established under Subchapter N, Chapter 74; the nursing institutions of The Texas A&M University System and The University of Texas System; and The University of Texas School of Public Health at Houston; and such other medical or dental schools as may be established by statute or as provided in this chapter.




Sec. 61.063. LISTING AND CERTIFICATION OF JUNIOR COLLEGES. The commissioner of higher education shall file with the state comptroller on or before October 1 of each year a list of the public junior colleges in this state. The commissioner shall certify the names of those colleges that have complied with the standards, rules, and regulations prescribed by the board. Only those colleges which are so certified shall be eligible for and may receive any appropriation made by the legislature to public junior colleges.
 
AFS is only applicable to public schools in TX with the caveat that the school's Admissions Director has final authority. So if there is resistance, do your best Atticus Finch. Private schools do not have to follow the AFS provisions period.

I've heard many people say this but am no coming to realize that nothing in the law allows the Director of Admissions to have the final say when it come to AFS. The only caveat I see in the code is that you would have to be a student they'd admit through their normal admissions process as well. In other words, you don't just gain admission to the college/university in question simply because the law says you are entitled to an AFS. You would have to be deemed as qualified for admission in general and at that point the law obligates them to allow you to enroll under AFS. I posted the code above, along with the sections it cites. The other sections cited basically outline which schools must follow the law. You are spot on in that private schools do not have to follow this law.
 
The law is clear, but the problem is that it is so rarely declared by students relative to the amount of students who register at any given college that registrars are ignorant of it. I had to go back and forth via email with the CC I declared AFS at before she came to her senses and changed the transcript to delete grades >10 years.
 
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The law is clear, but the problem is that it is so rarely declared by students relative to the amount of students who register at any given college that registrars are ignorant of it. I had to go back and forth via email with the CC I declared AFS at before she came to her senses and changed the transcript to delete grades >10 years.

Indeed. I can totally see that taking place almost every time someone tries to invoke AFS. I was just on UT Arlington's website and it does state that the final verdict is up to the Director of Admissions. I bet many if not all schools are going about it this way as well. So one simply needs to convince the Director of Admissions at a given school that the law doesn't bar a student from invoking AFS simply because they have a degree. A little finessing and some healthy persuasion along with showing them sections of the code could go a long way.

I am a little nervous about moving to Texas and hoping I connect with a Director is is reasonable. Texas is a perfect state for medical school admissions if your record is solid. It seems like a terrible place to apply for medical school with a low GPA and a great upward trend. Median GPA and MCAT score are way too high. In the end, who knows...
 
I just typed out what I think is a fairly solid email and sent it to each Director of Admissions at various colleges and universities in the DFW area. I included some of the code and then stated my case, without coming off as pompous or demanding. I just think it is law and the counselors telling students they cannot do AFS with a degree aren't very familiar with the actual law, so I am trying to appeal to the directors. In the end, we are all trying to do exactly what school is intended to enable us to do: further our career goals and passions. I hope at least one of them understands where I am coming from and allows for AFS with a Bachelor's degree already earned. I will keep you all posted.
 
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