Thank You Notes

[chaseface]

Hey guys, I'm pretty much finished with my interviews and I've already complied my tentative rank list.
Is it ok=not a nrmp violation=not too forward to tell my #1 and #2 choices in my thank you notes where I intend to rank them?
This whole process is so ambiguous and I'm a very direct person and hate this beat around the bush crap.
Any advice is appreciated! Thanks

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[LTS6776]

It's okay to write them and emphasize what you liked about their program and say that you plan to rank the program very highly. Would definitely not give an exact rank # - that would be a very bad idea no matter what the official match rules might be!

 

[chaseface]

Really!? So I can't tell the program that I am ranking #1 that I'm in fact gonna rank them #1? Doesn't everyone tell pretty much every program that they are ranking them highly?

 

[axm397]

if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you.

 

[axm397]

Here's the policy:

"6.0 Restrictions on Persuasion

One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without coercion or undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express their interest in each other; however, they shall not solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment. Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:

(a) a program to request applicants to reveal ranking preferences; or

(b) an applicant or program to suggest or inform the other that placement on a rank order list is contingent upon submission of a verbal or written statement indicating ranking preferences; or

(c) a program to require applicants to reveal the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply; or

(d) a program and an applicant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency or fellowship position prior to the release of the List of Unfilled Programs."



Just curious - were you going to tell your #2 program the you plan on ranking them #2?

 

[fozzy40]

Really!? So I can't tell the program that I am ranking #1 that I'm in fact gonna rank them #1? Doesn't everyone tell pretty much every program that they are ranking them highly?

I agree with what has already been said. Unfortunately, there are applicants who tell multiple programs that they are number 1 as well. Even if you, personally, are sincere I'm sure many PDs will tell you've they have been burned in the past.

 

[LTS6776]

It is a good idea to write thank you notes to all who interview you shortly after your interview day - I used to mail these from the airport on my way home from my interviews. I then followed up with letters closer to match day for my top few programs indicating that I was now done with all of my interviews and after careful consideration planned on ranking their program very highly and listed a few specific reasons why I was planning on doing so.

Do not tell your #1 program that you are ranking them first! You really risk alienating some program directors - they would much rather hear what you liked about their program, especially if you compliment the residents on their helpfulness during your interview day.

 

[Ludicolo]

if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you.

Here's the policy:

To clarify: it is not a violation if candidates or programs volunteer their ranking preferences to each other. What we can’t do is solicit information about where we plan on ranking each other. Whether or not it is wise or helpful in telling a program that you will rank them #1 is a different debate. In my many years of participating in interviews and ranking meetings, I have never seen a “letter of intent” sway us one way or the other.

Write thank yous because it is the polite, professional thing to do. I would include everyone that interviewed you, and don’t forget to include the program coordinators in your thanks.

 

[chaseface]

Thanks for the advice guys!

 

[axm397]

To clarify: it is not a violation if candidates or programs volunteer their ranking preferences to each other. What we can’t do is solicit information about where we plan on ranking each other. Whether or not it is wise or helpful in telling a program that you will rank them #1 is a different debate. In my many years of participating in interviews and ranking meetings, I have never seen a “letter of intent” sway us one way or the other.

Write thank yous because it is the polite, professional thing to do. I would include everyone that interviewed you, and don’t forget to include the program coordinators in your thanks.

sorry - should have worded this differently:

instead of : "if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you."


meant to say: "if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 to that PD is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you." I know at least 2 PDs that would consider it a negative if he/she got a letter from an applicant saying that their program is #1.

 

[Ludicolo]

sorry - should have worded this differently:

instead of : "if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you."


meant to say: "if the PD is someone who really follows the rules of the match then telling him/her that you are planning on ranking them #1 to that PD is a violation of the rules and may reflect poorly on you." I know at least 2 PDs that would consider it a negative if he/she got a letter from an applicant saying that their program is #1.

Thanks for the clarification on the clarification. But if telling a program “you’re my #1” isn’t an NRMP violation, I’m not sure why any PD would hold that against an applicant (unless it’s discovered that the applicant told everyone that they’re his/her #1 – basically lying).

 

[chaseface]

Even with all this clarification, I'm still confused...
I don't understand why a PD would be put off by my honesty.
I know where I want to go for sure, love the city, the hospital, faculty, other residents, and the program.
I don't feel authentic telling my #1 program that I will rank them highly, when I am probably going to tell most of the programs that I will rank the same exact thing.
I don't like this poker game!

 

[fozzy40]

Ultimately it's your decision so do what you think is best.

 

[padresp]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you just can't go wrong with being honest in these situations. As Ludicolo said, write a thank-you letter because it's the right thing to do. Don't do it to "get in" to a program, cuz it doesn't make a difference either way. A thank-you letter is for common courtesy, not for points. It sounds like the OP was already gonna be honest, so don't overthink things!

 

[Salma123]

To clarify: it is not a violation if candidates or programs volunteer their ranking preferences to each other. What we can’t do is solicit information about where we plan on ranking each other. Whether or not it is wise or helpful in telling a program that you will rank them #1 is a different debate. In my many years of participating in interviews and ranking meetings, I have never seen a “letter of intent” sway us one way or the other.

Write thank yous because it is the polite, professional thing to do. I would include everyone that interviewed you, and don’t forget to include the program coordinators in your thanks.

What about second look visits?

 

[Ludicolo]

What about them?

I remember one candidate whom we interviewed after completion of an audition rotation with us. At the end of the interview he asked about the possibility of a second look (I think he was trying to play the game too hard). I had to gently remind him that that would actually constitute a third look.

Programs will vary, but for the most part the second look is there strictly for the candidate. To perhaps get a better sense of how an actual working day would be for a resident. To tour a facility that wasn't available for whatever reason at that time. To answer any questions not answered on interview day (although seriously, how many times were you asked: "do you have any further questions for me?" ). A second look isn't about "face time" or "expressing interest". A second look doesn't influence the ranking decision - unless you act unprofessionally during the second look. That'll definitely hurt you.

Plus, it's gotta be expensive traveling to each program again.

 

[fozzy40]

If you are going to do a 2nd look, do it for yourself. I did a 2nd look for the purposes of checking out the city more with my significant other. In my case, it was very helpful because we ended up not really liking the city despite the good program. I agree that I don't think it influences the rank or shows that you are more interested in the program. I've also talked with people in my program involved in the selection process who are very indifferent about it.

 

[Jitter Bug]

Don't box yourself in, what if you have change of heart the night before rank lists are finalized? Now you've overpromised and there was no need.

I told my first choice transitional they were my first choice via letter, because I was totally sure I wanted to match there, and the PD was very casual.

I did match and was very happy.

As for PM&R I was torn between my top 4 which I liked pretty equally. I told top 3 via letter I was going to rank them highly. All the PD's were pretty by the book although 2 were very aggressive and called me on the phone to express their interest in me and tried to politely get a sense of where I was ranking them. I stuck to my "ranking you highly" mantra. I made a very last minute change of my rank order right before lists were due.

Got my 2nd choice and was very happy with it.

It's a game but play it smart. Look fabulous on paper and in person. Only express interest if it's real. If you can't muster energy to be excited for at least your top 3 then you have put the wrong programs on your list. Keep looking.

Good Luck!

 

[AngryBaby]

Hi, guys. Long-time lurker on this board. Applying to PM&R this year.

FWIW, I was told separately by 3 PD's during my interviews that it was very hard for them to discern an applicant's interest in their programs and that if I was genuinely interested I should simply send them a note saying so. None of them were pressuring me in any way and I believe they were simply explaining to me one of the difficulties of their side of the match process. This prompted me to tell my #1 program, which I have ranked at this time and have "fallen in love with", so to speak, that they are my #1 simply as a way to honestly express my interest to them.

Now I hope I didn't give off an unfavorable impression. Argh, I am not good at the "game" and cannot wait for this whole process to conclude.

Best of luck to everyone else.

 

[oreosandsake]

Don't box yourself in, what if you have change of heart the night before rank lists are finalized? Now you've overpromised and there was no need.

I made a very last minute change of my rank order right before lists were due.

Some of the residents that I had be-friended from different programs had inquired re my ROL which I shared with them.

Then I had some last minute indecisiveness regarding my ROL.

i felt compelled to stick to what I had previously said for sake of integrity. for a short amount of time, I even felt a twinge of regret for, as Jitter Bug put it, "overpromising." Not that I was seriously considering changing my ROL, but I felt that I had cornered myself into a decision.

this turmoil didn't last long, and thankfully I did not make any changes.

To the OP, you were going to tell your #2 program, that they were number 2 in your book? imagine telling your significant other, something like that, and imagine how that would go over...

I don't think that programs want to hear "you are my number 1" but I do think they want to know which applicants are seriously interested. I have been part of the interview process for the internship at my program. when we sat down to review all the applicants, my PD went through the applicants that had expressed interest in our program first. (it helps when you have to go through 10x the number of applicants per spot)
conversely, we also really appreciated the applicants that wrote us and said that they were withdrawing from the match, or were only applying to categorical programs.

I hope no one wants to bump into a PD/interviewer at a conference and be remembered as the applicant that wrote "you are my #1" but didn't match at their program.