The Battle Lines are Drawn.... Romney vs. Obama

[BLADEMDA]

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So, it's all but certain that come this Fall we the people must make a choice: Romney or Obama.

For me it's quite simple: More Federal Govt. and Higher Taxes or Less Federal Govt. and restraint in taxation.

What will the Nation look like after 4 more years of Obama?

 

[BLADEMDA]

Rick Santorum suspends campaign


Published April 10, 2012

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[BLADEMDA]

Jeff Swensen / Getty Images
Santorum suspends presidential campaign

Departure of his closest rival clears the path to the Republican nomination for Mitt Romney.

 

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[Silent Cool]

Hey Blade,

What do you think Romney will do for students and the loan situation? Also, who is your first choice among all of the candidates who have run during the year?

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

Hey Blade,

What do you think Romney will do for students and the loan situation? Also, who is your first choice among all of the candidates who have run during the year?

The problem is Student Loans. The Federal govt. is part of the reason education costs have sky-rocketed. They subsidize the Universities by making cheap, easy money readily available. In turn, the Schools raise tuition costs every year. The govt. then loans you more money. Is this your idea of a solution?

I'll vote Romney but I would have preferred the N.J. Governor:

 

[Silent Cool]

Right, I know that. (I'm not attacking here). I'm just curious if you think Romney will change any of it.

 

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[Silent Cool]

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[Silent Cool]

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Romney won't likely do much about student loans in his First year. It likely remains "as is" except he revokes student loan forgiveness.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Obama renews call for 'Buffett rule' to tax wealthiest


Published April 10, 2012

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  President Barack Obama speaks at Florida Atlantic University, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, in Boca Raton, Fla. (AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)

Boca Raton, Fla. – President Obama stepped up his election-year insistence Tuesday that the wealthiest Americans pay a greater share of taxes, telling Florida college students that everybody must help rebuild the country.
Hoping to draw a sharp contrast with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, Obama gave his support to the so-called "Buffett rule" -- which would change the U.S. tax law so that Americans making $1 million or more would have to pay at least 30 percent of their income in federal taxes.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/10/obama-renews-call-for-tax-fairness/#ixzz1rgOXnY6E

 

[BLADEMDA]

Obama wants the Millionaires to pay 30% in taxes; but, he also wants those earning over $250K to pay 39.6% plus Obamacare Tax plus phase out deductions. He isn't screwing the rich as much as he is screwing those of us aspiring to the American dream.

 

[gmoneytalks]

This won't be popular on this thread, but here goes.

We don't live in a monarchy where the king can issue a decree and it is actually carried out over the course of months. The machinery of the nation is complicated and slow and takes years for change to happen. The sub-prime crisis was caused by what?... too little regulation. We are still paying the penalty for that and _under_ regulation of wall street. All those graphs used to evidence Obama as a failure really point mostly to the Bush administration (you don't issue tax cuts in a boom, you issue them in a recession), and I'll admit, the Clinton administration, which repealed the Glass-Steagal act, effectively killing all regulation on Wall Street.

The job market is finally coming back. Obama isn't perfect, but neither is Congress, which has become so partisan nothing can get done (thank you, former speaker Gingrich). The 'pubs have tacked right since the '80's as a kind of shock-and-awe campaign launched by conservative media to overwhelm the minds of many Americans and gain support for the party, which was getting pummeled by the Democrats.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This won't be popular on this thread, but here goes.

We don't live in a monarchy where the king can issue a decree and it is actually carried out over the course of months. The machinery of the nation is complicated and slow and takes years for change to happen. The sub-prime crisis was caused by what?... too little regulation. We are still paying the penalty for that and _under_ regulation of wall street. All those graphs used to evidence Obama as a failure really point mostly to the Bush administration (you don't issue tax cuts in a boom, you issue them in a recession), and I'll admit, the Clinton administration, which repealed the Glass-Steagal act, effectively killing all regulation on Wall Street.

The job market is finally coming back. Obama isn't perfect, but neither is Congress, which has become so partisan nothing can get done (thank you, former speaker Gingrich). The 'pubs have tacked right since the '80's as a kind of shock-and-awe campaign launched by conservative media to overwhelm the minds of many Americans and gain support for the party, which was getting pummeled by the Democrats.

You have been brain-washed. Too much Regulation caused the problem. The media has spun this so you think the federal govt. will save you.😱

Barney Frank and his friends caused this mess. Banks were told to make those loans to subprime buyers and Fannie/Freddie would buy the note. The govt. was coercing and prodding banks/lenders to go subprime.

In the 1950s there was ZERO regulation compared to today. Banks made home loans carefully and with thorough documentaion. Why was that? Why did banks suddenly become reckless in 2006 yet were so conservative in 1950? Was it less regulated in 2006 compared to 1950?

Ron Paul knows govt. didn't solve the housing crisis; they helped create the crisis in the first place.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Govt. subsidies come at a cost: Personal Freedom. Americans have been trading individual liberty and personal freedom for European Socialism. This election is about more than Romney vs Obama. It is about Jefferson vs. Marx.

 

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[BLADEMDA]

I truly fear my govt. under Obama and even more so if he wins re-election. This govt. is like a thief stealing from those who work and giving to those they like. Is this the American vision of our founders? What do you think Obama meant when he said "I will fundamentaly transform America"?

 

[jwk]

This won't be popular on this thread, but here goes.

We don't live in a monarchy where the king can issue a decree and it is actually carried out over the course of months. The machinery of the nation is complicated and slow and takes years for change to happen. The sub-prime crisis was caused by what?... too little regulation. We are still paying the penalty for that and _under_ regulation of wall street. All those graphs used to evidence Obama as a failure really point mostly to the Bush administration (you don't issue tax cuts in a boom, you issue them in a recession), and I'll admit, the Clinton administration, which repealed the Glass-Steagal act, effectively killing all regulation on Wall Street.

The job market is finally coming back. Obama isn't perfect, but neither is Congress, which has become so partisan nothing can get done (thank you, former speaker Gingrich). The 'pubs have tacked right since the '80's as a kind of shock-and-awe campaign launched by conservative media to overwhelm the minds of many Americans and gain support for the party, which was getting pummeled by the Democrats.

Spoken like someone who has never paid taxes.

You think the job market is coming back? Really? You clearly have drank the Maobama koolaid. The unemployment rate has CREPT downward, and much of that is playing with the numbers. It doesn't take into account those who have quit looking or are underemployed by working part-time, contract, or at far lower salaries than they used to make before the recession. Most estimates put the true unemployment rate up around 16%. AND - new jobs last month - 120,000 - and yet the population grows by 250,000 per month. Do the math.

 

[Substance]

Yer country's fucked, and both sides - Dems and Reps - are shit.

Both have hands in wasteful spending, whether its never ending wars against countries that could barely throw a rock at America, or endless handouts to incompetent people for just existing. Both sides just plain suck. Or how about the self-regulation of Wall Street? Or the explosion in student loan lending, and the ponzi scheme that is Sallie Mae? What about the fact that a cop can strip you naked for any reason they deem worthy? The list is endless.

You guys need a true Libertarian in office.

I shudder at what the forefathers would think if they were to see what all of their hard work amounted to. As a Canadian I often find myself in awe of the foundations of the USA, and its position as the first non-monarchistic world superpower in two millennia. It's really quite sad what has become of it.

No matter who you vote for in this election, you're voting for a loser.

 

[richse]

Romney has some "deal breakers" that guarantee he doesn't get my vote.

1. He supports insurance not covering medicine based on a "conscience clause"
2. He's anti-abortion now.
3. He's anti-alternative energy.
4. Along with #3 he thinks more drilling will fix gas prices.
5. He's anti-gay marriage (which I think is equivalent to anti-constitution)

I'm sure there are a few more but this is enough. I'm not happy with the past 4 years, but Obama definitely has fewer deal breakers for me.

 

[ssmallz]

Yer country's fucked, and both sides - Dems and Reps - are shit.

Both have hands in wasteful spending, whether its never ending wars against countries that could barely throw a rock at America, or endless handouts to incompetent people for just existing. Both sides just plain suck. Or how about the self-regulation of Wall Street? Or the explosion in student loan lending, and the ponzi scheme that is Sallie Mae? What about the fact that a cop can strip you naked for any reason they deem worthy? The list is endless.

You guys need a true Libertarian in office.

I shudder at what the forefathers would think if they were to see what all of their hard work amounted to. As a Canadian I often find myself in awe of the foundations of the USA, and its position as the first non-monarchistic world superpower in two millennia. It's really quite sad what has become of it.

No matter who you vote for in this election, you're voting for a loser.

Quote for truth..... that's why I find threads like this so funny. Dems or repubs, they both suck so it really doesn't matter.

 

[vector2]

You think the job market is coming back? Really? You clearly have drank the Maobama koolaid. The unemployment rate has CREPT downward, and much of that is playing with the numbers. It doesn't take into account those who have quit looking or are underemployed by working part-time, contract, or at far lower salaries than they used to make before the recession. Most estimates put the true unemployment rate up around 16%. AND - new jobs last month - 120,000 - and yet the population grows by 250,000 per month. Do the math.

So we should go back to the policies that were shedding 700k jobs a month instead? Make no mistake, Romney will be a return to GWB, not Reagan, aka unaffordable tax cuts for the top that pump up debt and no courage to specify the cuts that will be needed to offset them.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Christie spent most of his 30-minute speech on New Jersey budget issues, but brought up national policy toward the end. He said it is the least optimistic period he’s ever seen for the nation.
"It’s because government’s now telling them, stop dreaming, stop striving, we’ll take care of you. We’re turning into a paternalistic entitlement society. That will not just bankrupt us financially, it will bankrupt us morally," Christie told Bush, Henry Kissinger and an assortment of Republican governors in a theater at the New York Historical Society.
"When the American people no longer believe that this is a place where only their willingness to work hard and to act with honor and integrity and ingenuity determines their success in life, then we’ll have a bunch of people sitting on a couch waiting for their next government check," Christie said.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Quote for truth..... that's why I find threads like this so funny. Dems or repubs, they both suck so it really doesn't matter.

Oh it matters. It matters a lot. You and Vector2 will find out the hard way what a real Socialistic USA looks like in 4 years; the fundamental transformation has begun.

What we need is restoration of our nation. A restoration of less regulation, more liberty and lower taxes.
Who in ther right mind thinks the entitelment mentality can actually continue "as is"?

 

[vector2]

Oh it matters. It matters a lot. You and Vector2 will find out the hard way what a real Socialistic USA looks like in 4 years; the fundamental transformation has begun.

What we need is restoration of our nation. A restoration of less regulation, more liberty and lower taxes.
Who in ther right mind thinks the entitelment mentality can actually continue "as is"?

Real socialistic usa, huh? That's not really computing from a rhetoric standpoint considering that wall street is starting to kick ass again while middle-class wages remain stagnant, and that under "Maobama" 93% of the wealth generated in the US still went to the top 1% of earners. I'm sure you'd like that number closer to 99%, but short of rounding up all the olds and poors in a rocketship and launching them into the sun I don't really see it happening.

 

[cincincyreds]

How about voting for me.

rule #1 : You can't be reelected to public office unless the budget is BALANCED!

rule #2 : I am pro-abortion, it is none of mine or anyone else's business what goes on inside someone's uterus. I've never understood the prolife argument.

rule#3 : To fix the illegal immigration problem in this country, everyone will get an id who is a citizen, you will NOT be allowed to buy food unless you have an id.

rule#4 : Bring back Glass-Steagal. De-regulation is BAD! You need regulation that focuses on supporting a strong hardworking middle class. Regulations in this country will be focused on having full employment, not having half the nation's wealth concentrated in 1% of the population like we have today.

rule#5 : I do believe in social security and medicare, but it has to be based on a balanced budget. If the GDP is growing, we can have more social security and medicare, if GDP is decreasing, we just decrease these social programs. NO MORE EMPTY PROMISES!!!!!!! We can't continue having people receive 2 dollars for every 1 dollar they put it in. That is a PONZI SCHEME!!!!! Actually it is even worse cause you go to jail if you don't pay.

rule#6 : Energy policy, goal of energy independence with a belief that global warming EXISTS! Drill baby drill is a bs policy. We will have a Manhattan project to figure this out. And by the way, once we figure out energy independence I believe we can achive world peace.

rule #7 : The first baby you have that you can't afford, you get an automatic tubal ligation. Unwanted babies are bad and they become criminals. There will be an end to the welfare state as we know it. Once it goes away, these people will be forced to either die or start working.

rule #8 : Bring the troops home. There is no reason we need to be present in 150 countries. This should decrease deficit spending a lot.

 

[vector2]

Cincy, I disagree with you on some points but at least you seem like you would be willing to listen to reason and ostensibly compromise in the interest of moving the country forward. Unfortunately, the GOP has moved so far to the right on every issue you mentioned that neither Ike, nor Nixon, nor Saint Ronaldus of Reagan would be electable by the current base. Instead of solutions, they'd rather focus on laughably strawmanning Obama (a moderate who has taken as much Wall St campaign $$$$ as the best of 'em while giving private insurance companies a 40 million policy gift) as a socialist.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Cincy, I disagree with you on some points but at least you seem like you would be willing to listen to reason and ostensibly compromise in the interest of moving the country forward. Unfortunately, the GOP has moved so far to the right on every issue you mentioned that neither Ike, nor Nixon, nor Saint Ronaldus of Reagan would be electable by the current base. Instead of solutions, they'd rather focus on laughably strawmanning Obama (a moderate who has taken as much Wall St campaign $$$$ as the best of 'em while giving private insurance companies a 40 million policy gift) as a socialist.

Romney isn't far right. He is a moderate who wants to fix our problems. At least he will try and fix them.

Romey will end up supporting the Bowles-Simpson plan. Romey will curb entitlements and bring common sense to the White House.

Romney will compromise and move the country forward. Unlike Obama Romney wants real solutions that work and will deal with the other side.

 

[pgg]

short of rounding up all the olds and poors in a rocketship and launching them into the sun I don't really see it happening.

It's a common misconception that launching something into the sun is a good way to get rid of it.

Solar escape velocity is about 42 km/sec, and earth's orbit is about 30 km/s, so you're most of the way there. You need to add about 12 km/s of velocity to get rid of someone forever. In contrast, to get to the sun, you need to drop all 30 km/s of the speed you've already got courtesy of being in earth's orbit. You can't even bleed off some velocity with gravity assist maneuvers because, as fate would have it, all the planets are orbiting in the same direction.

Clearly, the more efficient solution is to put the telephone sanitizers and welfare bums on a spaceship and launch them into a DIFFERENT star. I'm sure someone could come up with a convincing ruse to get them to board the ship voluntarily, because they're not very smart. The risk there is that if that different sun you choose already has intelligent life living around it, they're going to be 75 kinds of pissed that you launched a bunch of welfare bums at them.

 

[cincincyreds]

Cincy, I disagree with you on some points but at least you seem like you would be willing to listen to reason and ostensibly compromise in the interest of moving the country forward. Unfortunately, the GOP has moved so far to the right on every issue you mentioned that neither Ike, nor Nixon, nor Saint Ronaldus of Reagan would be electable by the current base. Instead of solutions, they'd rather focus on laughably strawmanning Obama (a moderate who has taken as much Wall St campaign $$$$ as the best of 'em while giving private insurance companies a 40 million policy gift) as a socialist.

I think it is great that you disagree with me on some points. I think debate is a good thing. Maybe if you let me know what you disagree with I could clarify my viewpoints. But the truth of the matter is the middle class is being destroyed. We have half the wealth of this country amongst 1 percent of the population. This is a problem. I'm just offering as reasonable of a solution as I can think of. Economics is a dismal science of supply and demand. I am not a republican or democrat. Your right, the republicans are not offering any solutions for this. They rather blame the poor, old, and illegal immigrants for all the problems.

Like I said, if we had a focused energy policy that focused and solved energy independence, I firmly believe all the problems including illegal immigration, israel-palestine conflict, terrorism, the poor, will go away. Everyone on this planet will benefit. This will require a manhattan project type of situation.

Old people are getting under 1% on their cds while banks get 0% interst free loans on the backs of our elderly. This is disgusting. We have the head of Goldman Sachs calling their investors muppets. Jon Corzine, Obama's largest donor, is not in jail after he stole 1.5 billion in the MF global scandal. Republicans don't offer any solutions, they had their chance with Bush and failed. The Dems have had their chance with Obama, and have also failed equally bad.

I may sound like a socialist, but I am not. There is no such thing as a 100% capitolistic system. You need some degree of a social safety net, but it can't be done with unfunded liabilities. We can't have a system where an official can promise something they know they can't deliver on. People need safety nets if they get sick, and if regulated reasonably, they should work. People also need incentive to get off their rear ends and do some work. You can't just give baby momma more money for more babies to repeat the process. It doesn't work. Nothing good comes out of this.

Unfortunately, there is no party that supports my viewpoints of hard honest work to improve humanity.

We shouldn't as physicians just live in a bubble and assume we will always live in our beutiful houses, drive our beutiful cars, and enjoy our beutiful salaries for forevfer and forever. Things do change.

 

[gmoneytalks]

I've paid taxes since I was 23 (I'm 30 now). Pretty offensive comment, dude. You're an attending, right, so you're older? You should really know better.

Cooking the books? They're always cooked. Of course it's not as good as before the recession. It was the worst crash since the Great Depression, what exactly are you expecting? Without stimulus, we would be sitting where Europe is right now (_truly_ battling titanic sovereign debts).

Spoken like someone who has never paid taxes.

You think the job market is coming back? Really? You clearly have drank the Maobama koolaid. The unemployment rate has CREPT downward, and much of that is playing with the numbers. It doesn't take into account those who have quit looking or are underemployed by working part-time, contract, or at far lower salaries than they used to make before the recession. Most estimates put the true unemployment rate up around 16%. AND - new jobs last month - 120,000 - and yet the population grows by 250,000 per month. Do the math.

 

[deleted103644]

Not sure where you get the stat (FRED probably has it), but a better employment indicator is total employment /working age population. Less prone to hand waving about unemployment decreasing because people have stopped looking for work.

It's increased, but still a long way to go.

And talking about records "since WWII" is clearly cherry-picking stats since this was the worst downturn since the Great Depression.

 

[dhb]

Yer country's fucked, and both sides - Dems and Reps - are shit.

Both have hands in wasteful spending, whether its never ending wars against countries that could barely throw a rock at America, or endless handouts to incompetent people for just existing. Both sides just plain suck. Or how about the self-regulation of Wall Street? Or the explosion in student loan lending, and the ponzi scheme that is Sallie Mae? What about the fact that a cop can strip you naked for any reason they deem worthy? The list is endless.

You guys need a true Libertarian in office.

I shudder at what the forefathers would think if they were to see what all of their hard work amounted to. As a Canadian I often find myself in awe of the foundations of the USA, and its position as the first non-monarchistic world superpower in two millennia. It's really quite sad what has become of it.

No matter who you vote for in this election, you're voting for a loser.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

It's a common misconception that launching something into the sun is a good way to get rid of it.

Solar escape velocity is about 42 km/sec, and earth's orbit is about 30 km/s, so you're most of the way there. You need to add about 12 km/s of velocity to get rid of someone forever. In contrast, to get to the sun, you need to drop all 30 km/s of the speed you've already got courtesy of being in earth's orbit. You can't even bleed off some velocity with gravity assist maneuvers because, as fate would have it, all the planets are orbiting in the same direction.

Clearly, the more efficient solution is to put the telephone sanitizers and welfare bums on a spaceship and launch them into a DIFFERENT star. I'm sure someone could come up with a convincing ruse to get them to board the ship voluntarily, because they're not very smart. The risk there is that if that different sun you choose already has intelligent life living around it, they're going to be 75 kinds of pissed that you launched a bunch of welfare bums at them.

Best post of the thread. Now and forever.

 

[Bertelman]

It's a common misconception that launching something into the sun is a good way to get rid of it.

Solar escape velocity is about 42 km/sec, and earth's orbit is about 30 km/s, so you're most of the way there. You need to add about 12 km/s of velocity to get rid of someone forever. In contrast, to get to the sun, you need to drop all 30 km/s of the speed you've already got courtesy of being in earth's orbit. You can't even bleed off some velocity with gravity assist maneuvers because, as fate would have it, all the planets are orbiting in the same direction.

Clearly, the more efficient solution is to put the telephone sanitizers and welfare bums on a spaceship and launch them into a DIFFERENT star. I'm sure someone could come up with a convincing ruse to get them to board the ship voluntarily, because they're not very smart. The risk there is that if that different sun you choose already has intelligent life living around it, they're going to be 75 kinds of pissed that you launched a bunch of welfare bums at them.

This is the most objective, informative post in this thread.

 

[Apollyon]

It's a common misconception that launching something into the sun is a good way to get rid of it.

Solar escape velocity is about 42 km/sec, and earth's orbit is about 30 km/s, so you're most of the way there. You need to add about 12 km/s of velocity to get rid of someone forever. In contrast, to get to the sun, you need to drop all 30 km/s of the speed you've already got courtesy of being in earth's orbit. You can't even bleed off some velocity with gravity assist maneuvers because, as fate would have it, all the planets are orbiting in the same direction.

I don't understand your physics here. "Solar escape velocity" is moving away from the sun. That is not in play here - the object is moving towards the sun. All an object has to do is make it past the L1 Lagrange point, and the sun's gravity does the rest. What you say would be correct if the object was being shot out of the solar system.

I would posit that launching something into the sun, although taking a while just for the ride, is an effective way to do it. "Kill it with fire?" In droves.

 

[Reciprocity79]

I don't understand your physics here. "Solar escape velocity" is moving away from the sun. That is not in play here - the object is moving towards the sun. All an object has to do is make it past the L1 Lagrange point, and the sun's gravity does the rest. What you say would be correct if the object was being shot out of the solar system.

I would posit that launching something into the sun, although taking a while just for the ride, is an effective way to do it. "Kill it with fire?" In droves.

I'm pretty excited that this thread has gotten to the point of mentioning the L1 Lagrange point.

 

[OB1🤙]

Agreed, thread finally delivers.

 

[scudrunner]

It's a common misconception that launching something into the sun is a good way to get rid of it.

Solar escape velocity is about 42 km/sec, and earth's orbit is about 30 km/s, so you're most of the way there. You need to add about 12 km/s of velocity to get rid of someone forever. In contrast, to get to the sun, you need to drop all 30 km/s of the speed you've already got courtesy of being in earth's orbit. You can't even bleed off some velocity with gravity assist maneuvers because, as fate would have it, all the planets are orbiting in the same direction.

Clearly, the more efficient solution is to put the telephone sanitizers and welfare bums on a spaceship and launch them into a DIFFERENT star. I'm sure someone could come up with a convincing ruse to get them to board the ship voluntarily, because they're not very smart. The risk there is that if that different sun you choose already has intelligent life living around it, they're going to be 75 kinds of pissed that you launched a bunch of welfare bums at them.

Oh, LMFAO.