The "Disinformation Dozen" - Three are DOs (and another is one of their spouses). When will the AOA actually address this?

[DrWBD]

Joseph Mercola, DO, Erin Elizabeth (Mercola's wife), Sherri Tenpenny, DO, and Rashid Buttar, DO.

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[Doc_Ock]

I'm surprised Dr. Oz and Deepak Chopra aren't on the list.

 

[DrWBD]

I'm surprised Dr. Oz and Deepak Chopra aren't on the list.

As much as I dislike Dr. Oz, as far as I can tell he has been recommending vaccination without reservation.

Surprisingly, so has Dr. Deepak Chopra:
"...I grew up in India where I saw millions of people die from polio, tuberculosis, malaria and smallpox. “If they didn’t die, they were paralysed or scarred for life, so I’m biased. I believe the scientific method of vaccination is the most effective way right now to curb this pandemic and that’s because of my own personal experience growing up in India.” Dr Chopra said the world needed the help of science. “People in Australia, the US and England, they don’t have those memories so they have veered in the extreme, opposite direction and I believe that could be dangerous,” he said. “Unless something is valid and scientifically verifiable, we should be careful and we should not condemn vaccines just because we haven’t seen the effectiveness of them in the big pandemics of all time.”"

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

As much as I dislike Dr. Oz, as far as I can tell he has been recommending vaccination without reservation.

Surprisingly, so has Dr. Deepak Chopra:
"...I grew up in India where I saw millions of people die from polio, tuberculosis, malaria and smallpox. “If they didn’t die, they were paralysed or scarred for life, so I’m biased. I believe the scientific method of vaccination is the most effective way right now to curb this pandemic and that’s because of my own personal experience growing up in India.” Dr Chopra said the world needed the help of science. “People in Australia, the US and England, they don’t have those memories so they have veered in the extreme, opposite direction and I believe that could be dangerous,” he said. “Unless something is valid and scientifically verifiable, we should be careful and we should not condemn vaccines just because we haven’t seen the effectiveness of them in the big pandemics of all time.”"

Yeah dudes a fraudster, but he doesn't actively try to kill his audience

 

[Goro]

Joseph Mercola, DO, Erin Elizabeth (Mercola's wife), Sherri Tenpenny, DO, and Rashid Buttar, DO.

Yeah, it's disgusting.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Yeah dudes a fraudster, but he doesn't actively try to kill his audience

I suppose it's a spectrum, but he still peddles plenty of pseudoscience.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

I suppose it's a spectrum, but he still peddles plenty of pseudoscience.

Oh yeah for sure

 

[deleted1100659]

The scariest thing is Dr. Mercola has a book on amazon with great reviews, and the book is just him ranting off various opinions without any factual basis. Americans have labeled the government as some kind of supervillian intent on controlling its population, that they will gladly follow any loud voice, no matter how baseless, to justify their own insecurities and fears.

This blatant misinformation is dangerous and unfortunate that there is this pervasive distrust of modern medicine.

 

[Lawpy]

The scariest thing is Dr. Mercola has a book on amazon with great reviews, and the book is just him ranting off various opinions without any factual basis. Americans have labeled the government as some kind of supervillian intent on controlling its population, that they will gladly follow any loud voice, no matter how baseless, to justify their own insecurities and fears.

This blatant misinformation is dangerous and unfortunate that there is this pervasive distrust of modern medicine.

Part of the distrust is the politicization of medicine itself. The retractions of covid research in big journals really damaged the reputation

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

Hard to get them in check when fundamental tenets of osteopathy are rooted in disproven junk science.

 

[Lawpy]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

... pls tell me you're reading satirical tweets

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

... pls tell me you're reading satirical tweets

Nope. Like full on posts about how the vaccine is more dangerous than covid and that natural immunity should be pushed.

 

[Natremia]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

Right, because there are NO MDs who are anti-vaxxers….

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Right, because there are NO MDs who are anti-vaxxers….

Nice strawman-tu quoque mix.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Nothing like a lil' whataboutism to deflect.

 

[Ganon]

My anecdotes have been that there are more antivax nurses than doctors in general, and that a lot of the antivax physicians are in things like FM. Not seeing a ton of ID or Pulm/Crit people who are antivax.

I have a feeling that level of education/excellence is directly proportional to acceptance of the current scientific consensus.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My anecdotes have been that there are more antivax nurses than doctors in general, and that a lot of the antivax physicians are in things like FM. Not seeing a ton of ID or Pulm/Crit people who are antivax.

I have a feeling that level of education/excellence is directly proportional to acceptance of the current scientific consensus.

Or, very likely, its a numbers game.

There are way more family doctors than any other specialist, unless you count all of the IM subspecialists as internists and most people don't. So you are going to have more of us doing that because there are more of us in general.

 

[Goro]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

Suggest reporting them to their medical boards. I've seen vocal and virulent anti-vax doctors have their licenses yanked in my state.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Suggest reporting them to their medical boards. I've seen vocal and virulent anti-vax doctors have their licenses yanked in my state.

As they should.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My anecdotes have been that there are more antivax nurses than doctors in general, and that a lot of the antivax physicians are in things like FM. Not seeing a ton of ID or Pulm/Crit people who are antivax.

I have a feeling that level of education/excellence is directly proportional to acceptance of the current scientific consensus.

Oh yeah. That is 100% correct. Like a solid 30-40% of nurses are antivax ime.

 

[Doc_Ock]

My anecdotes have been that there are more antivax nurses than doctors in general, and that a lot of the antivax physicians are in things like FM. Not seeing a ton of ID or Pulm/Crit people who are antivax.

I have a feeling that level of education/excellence is directly proportional to acceptance of the current scientific consensus.

About 95% of doctors are vaxxed. Non-physicians and Healthcare workers (a very broad category, I know) are a little over half last time I checked.

 

[LondonVibes]

Suggest reporting them to their medical boards. I've seen vocal and virulent anti-vax doctors have their licenses yanked in my state.

It must suck to have your career destroyed so easily. Then again, these doctors could’ve saved themselves.

 

[Doc_Ock]

It must suck to have your career destroyed so easily. Then again, these doctors could’ve saved themselves.

Not really imo. Being vocally antivax shows a dangerous level of incompetence and/or willful ignorance by someone who has clearly demonstrated they are not fit to practice medicine.

 

[Goro]

It must suck to have your career destroyed so easily. Then again, these doctors could’ve saved themselves.

It sucks more to endanger people's lives for grift.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It must suck to have your career destroyed so easily. Then again, these doctors could’ve saved themselves.

If you don’t want your career to end, you shouldn’t endanger public health.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It must suck to have your career destroyed so easily. Then again, these doctors could’ve saved themselves.

There’s that whole “do no harm” thing we’re supposed to be kinda into.

They were doing harm.

**** around, find out.

 

[LondonVibes]

There’s that whole “do no harm” thing we’re supposed to be kinda into.

They were doing harm.

**** around, find out.

Oh there’s no sympathy from me. I’m just saying it sucks for the individual doctor.

 

[LondonVibes]

I just hope that the docs who do this take their L and don’t go full Andrew Wakefield mode and blame their expulsion on conspiracy. That’s when **** can hit the fan.

 

[LimpSpatula]

My anecdotes have been that there are more antivax nurses than doctors in general, and that a lot of the antivax physicians are in things like FM. Not seeing a ton of ID or Pulm/Crit people who are antivax.

I have a feeling that level of education/excellence is directly proportional to acceptance of the current scientific consensus.

It’s has zero to do with education and more to do with the ability to process and differentiate a ton of information. A sizeable majority of human beings don’t have the ability to utilize the internet in a meaningful way. It’s a trait that medicine didn’t give you. You bring it to medicine and that’s what gives us our job security.

 

[Tragal Pointer]

If I learned anything about the AOA since the pandemic started (see the Addressing PE post), they will absolutely not do anything that A) harms the image of the degree or gives the appearance of harming the degree or B) threatens their income stream.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

If I learned anything about the AOA since the pandemic started (see the Addressing PE post), they will absolutely not do anything that A) harms the image of the degree or gives the appearance of harming the degree or B) threatens their income stream.

Yet they are opening tones of new schools (even for profit ones) with no guarantee of a good enough clinical education or matching into residency. I think that harms the image of the degree enough.

 

[Tragal Pointer]

Yet they are opening tones of new schools (even for profit ones) with no guarantee of a good enough clinical education or matching into residency. I think that harms the image of the degree enough.

B always trumps A unless the general public becomes sentient of the situation. For instance, if you explained the residency spot bottleneck to the general public, they would be indifferent for the most part. No one is going to get fired up about medical students and residents getting screwed. But when the LA times prints an op ed trashing DO's and the AOA after the Nassar case, you bet your ass lawyers are getting involved. It is telling that the AOA did not publically comment on the case until after the op ed was published.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

B always trumps A unless the general public becomes sentient of the situation. For instance, if you explained the residency spot bottleneck to the general public, they would be indifferent for the most part. No one is going to get fired up about medical students and residents getting screwed. But when the LA times prints an op ed trashing DO's and the AOA after the Nassar case, you bet your ass lawyers are getting involved. It is telling that the AOA did not publically comment on the case until after the op ed was published.

I mean, did they even actually comment? Last statement I saw was more of ignoring Nassar and defending pelvic OMM techniques lol. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a statement from the AOA condemning Nassar.

Which is very telling about what they actually care about

 

[Tragal Pointer]

I mean, did they even actually comment? Last statement I saw was more of ignoring Nassar and defending pelvic OMM techniques lol. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a statement from the AOA condemning Nassar.

Which is very telling about what they actually care about

It is truly surreal.

 

[NY_Med]

Man, y’all DOs need to get your people in check. I just saw way too many DOs on Twitter recommending not getting vaccinated.

To be fair, the standards of going to a DO school during these people's era weren't much better than Naturopathic schools. Now I feel like DO students/ candidates are much more competent than these 's.

 

[NY_Med]

Kelly Brogan

Kelly Brogan, MD, is a Manhattan-based holistic women’s health psychiatrist and author of the New York Times bestselling book, A Mind of Your Own: The Truth About Depression and How Women Can Heal Their Bodies to Reclaim Their Lives. kellybroganmd.com

www.eomega.org

Now can someone explain to me how a Cornell medical school grad who did a fellowship at NYU became this delirious? Am I missing something?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To be fair, the standards of going to a DO school during these people's era weren't much better than Naturopathic schools. Now I feel like DO students/ candidates are much more competent than these 's.

The ones I’ve seen on Twitter are young. Obviously most DOs aren’t that dumb, but when the standards for admission are low, you will get people who don’t really understand science.

 

[LimpSpatula]

The ones I’ve seen on Twitter are young. Obviously most DOs aren’t that dumb, but when the standards for admission are low, you will get people who don’t really understand science.

It’s an almost ironic post because it’s not about understanding science.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It’s an almost ironic post because it’s not about understanding science.

Being antivax isn’t about not understanding science?

 

[LimpSpatula]

Being antivax isn’t about not understanding science?

Absolutely not. I’m sure in your schools currciulum they don’t teach you to educate these people. You’re supposed to be empathetic. It’s a cultural thing.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Absolutely not. I’m sure in your schools currciulum they don’t teach you to educate these people. You’re supposed to be empathetic. It’s a cultural thing.

What are you talking about? We’re talking about physicians who are completely not understanding basic science.

 

[LimpSpatula]

What are you talking about? We’re talking about physicians who are completely not understanding basic science.

Once again, it has nothing to do with not understanding science. This is a cultural belief. Knowledge and belief are two different things.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Once again, it has nothing to do with not understanding science. This is a cultural belief. Knowledge and belief are two different things.

Oh I see what you’re saying. I partly agree with you, but when someone is saying that the vaccine is magnetizing people, that is a fundamental lack of scientific understanding.

 

[Goro]

Kelly Brogan

Kelly Brogan, MD, is a Manhattan-based holistic women’s health psychiatrist and author of the New York Times bestselling book, A Mind of Your Own: The Truth About Depression and How Women Can Heal Their Bodies to Reclaim Their Lives. kellybroganmd.com

www.eomega.org

Now can someone explain to me how a Cornell medical school grad who did a fellowship at NYU became this delirious? Am I missing something?

It's all about the grift.

 

[Neopolymath]

It's all about the grift.

When you don't admit/notice that many people we perceive as crazy are actually just grifting, you miss a lot of context. It's a great point.

 

[LimpSpatula]

Oh I see what you’re saying. I partly agree with you, but when someone is saying that the vaccine is magnetizing people, that is a fundamental lack of scientific understanding.

And a man coming back from the dead is not a fundamental lack of scientific understanding? Or do you make an exception because it’s your beliefs? I’m not trying to argue with you. The point is viewing it from your perspective is not going to get us anywhere. I spend a great deal of time talking to physicians about how just out of touch with the public we are. Medical schools will not address this in the slightest and double down on 50 year old patient doctor relationships. This has seriously implications for our future (ie, no one caring whether or not were replaced by NPs).

 

[Neopolymath]

And a man coming back from the dead is not a fundamental lack of scientific understanding? Or do you make an exception because it’s your beliefs? I’m not trying to argue with you. The point is viewing it from your perspective is not going to get us anywhere. I spend a great deal of time talking to physicians about how just out of touch with the public we are. Medical schools will not address this in the slightest and double down on 50 year old patient doctor relationships. This has seriously implications for our future (ie, no one caring whether or not were replaced by NPs).

I understand where you are coming from. It looks like even psych has this issue. Would you agree as a psych attending?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

And a man coming back from the dead is not a fundamental lack of scientific understanding? Or do you make an exception because it’s your beliefs? I’m not trying to argue with you. The point is viewing it from your perspective is not going to get us anywhere. I spend a great deal of time talking to physicians about how just out of touch with the public we are. Medical schools will not address this in the slightest and double down on 50 year old patient doctor relationships. This has seriously implications for our future (ie, no one caring whether or not were replaced by NPs).

What are you even talking about?

 

[Lawpy]

And a man coming back from the dead is not a fundamental lack of scientific understanding? Or do you make an exception because it’s your beliefs? I’m not trying to argue with you. The point is viewing it from your perspective is not going to get us anywhere. I spend a great deal of time talking to physicians about how just out of touch with the public we are. Medical schools will not address this in the slightest and double down on 50 year old patient doctor relationships. This has seriously implications for our future (ie, no one caring whether or not were replaced by NPs).

I mean this doesn't surprise me when medical education is still based on a model created by a random (and notoriously racist) educator over a century ago. Of course we are out of touch with the public. It's a major problem that requires a complete overhaul of med education but frankly the leaders don't care and want to keep the outdated status quo