The Flu and Covid-19 - The Truth Comes Out

[owlegrad]

The point is that many people that have died from COVID were elderly and had underlining conditions. Especially in Italy, >90% were very old and had 2 or more comorbidities.

So what? What would be the age of death you would care about? How young and healthy does a person have to be for their death to matter?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[owlegrad]

Because covid19 kills based on underlying conditions and age and death rate is significantly different depending on location. So if you're living in places like NY, knowing 2 people who died would be different than someone in Montana. We can't treat each case the same right? Which is why we can't just have the whole country shut down? Texas shouldn't be shutting down just because California decided to panic and shut down when there is almost no significance in covid19 death rate. Especially once the falsified reporting have been corrected.

So if my family in NY died of COVID that wouldn’t be the same as if my family in Montana died of COVID? I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

So what? What would be the age of death you would care about? How young and healthy does a person have to be for their death to matter?

Stop being so sensitive. We are not talking about how sad these deaths are. Why do you not care about auto accident deaths as much? Why do you ONLY care about covid19 death? What about death due to starvation? Does that not matter?

The point of this conversation is about whether this death rate is significant enough to impact our economy this much. As I have mentioned previously, this has hit everyone economically. Losing jobs. Breaking up families. Infectious disease have been with humans since recorded history. Economic collapse due to such infections have not.

It is more significant for a death in Montana than NY because Montana does not have any therefore they did not close their state. My point is that we should treat this as what it is, not what we want it to be. Apparently, people want this to be an apocalyptic event. It is not.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

So what? What would be the age of death you would care about? How young and healthy does a person have to be for their death to matter?

Everyone matters regardless of their age or location. There is something called "quality-adjusted life year or quality-adjusted life-year (QALY) is a generic measure of disease burden, including both the quality and the quantity of life lived.[1][2] It is used in economic evaluation to assess the value of medical interventions.[1] One QALY equates to one year in perfect health.[2] QALY scores range from 1 (perfect health) to 0 (dead).[3] QALYs can be used to inform personal decisions, to evaluate programs, and to set priorities for future programs.[3]"

So what we should have done as a nation was to isolate the immunocompromised and the elderly. Not quarantine the young and healthy.

 

[M0df]

Just as a counterargument.

Unless you are that lucky pharmacist who just dispenses birth control and antibiotics, the old and the weak are our patients. We already spend trillions on those meds that have helped their asthma, diabetes, and other underlying conditions all this time.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Just as a counterargument.

Unless you are that lucky pharmacist who just dispenses birth control and antibiotics, the old and the weak are our patients. We already spend trillions on those meds that have helped their asthma, diabetes, and other underlying conditions all this time.

As we should be helping the elderly, no one is saying neglect them or let them die. What most epidemiologists are saying is that they should have been isolated and the rest of the country can operate as usual. There was no need to destroy the economy and set off panic.

 

[M0df]

So I would have supported selective quarantine. I don't think older people would go for it. You would have more protests than now. There would be calls of ageism and discrimination.

Also, let's have this hypothetical place for older people and call it nursing home. One can argue its setup is quarantine. Limited foot traffic. Some level of medical care. The virus still got there even with current measures in place to do significant damage. If you place more people there to reduce logistical nightmare of caring for every older person, it is also a problem.

My point is we would struggle more to execute selective quarantine. Hospitals would be overrun or elderly would continue to die.

 

[owlegrad]

Stop being so sensitive. We are not talking about how sad these deaths are.

If the argument is that old people should go ahead and die as long as it doesn’t hurt the economy too bad I think we are talking about how “sad” those deaths are. Same for people with comorbidities I guess.

I guess if they are going to die they should do so and decrease the surplus population.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

So I would have supported selective quarantine. I don't think older people would go for it. You would have more protests than now. There would be calls of ageism and discrimination.

Also, let's have this hypothetical place for older people and call it nursing home. One can argue its setup is quarantine. Limited foot traffic. Some level of medical care. The virus still got there even with current measures in place to do significant damage. If you place more people there to reduce logistical nightmare of caring for every older person, it is also a problem.

My point is we would struggle more to execute selective quarantine. Hospitals would be overrun or elderly would continue to die.

They may have protested, yes, but you can't keep everyone happy. You are underestimating the socio-economic toll that the lockdown has created globally. The consequences are far reaching and devastating, far more damage is being done than what selective quarantine would have cost in terms of money and suffering. The hospital system would not have been overrun. The young and healthy would have developed herd immunity and the virus would most likely have dissipated like every other respiratory pathogen that has befallen humans.

We could have used the 2 trillion dollars and set this into motion and still have tons of money left over. The real question is why are we treating this virus different than other ones in the past?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

If the argument is that old people should go ahead and die as long as it doesn’t hurt the economy too bad I think we are talking about how “sad” those deaths are. Same for people with comorbidities I guess.

I guess if they are going to die they should do so and decrease the surplus population.

How do you repeatedly and consistently only care about your point of view? Who are you arguing with? Certainly not me since i did not make that point. Is my argument so indefensible that you have to make up a new argument to argue with yourself? Lol

So in that same regard, you care so much about yourself that you do not care if millions of people are out of jobs and family are suffering? How dare you?

See what I did there? I can do it too.

 

[M0df]

Well, you said we can't trust the numbers, so no argument is going to work but I will try anyway.

It is different because we are closing in on 90k dead even with restrictions in place. We are no longer in Feb and March to say there is no risk. It doesn't seem any less deadly if a person died in ICU from stroke but they ended up there because of Covid. I mean Russian death totals are low. They seem to use their own way of counting.

Herd immunity was an option. Yet it didn't gain traction anywhere except Sweden? It is also hypothetical. You assume each person will develop antibodies to last for awhile. Again, it hasnt been proven.

You seem to rule out any possibility that something different, like this virus, can originate. Instead, you would rather believe in NWO and coordinated effort of Pinky and the Brain to take over the world.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Well, you said we can't trust the numbers, so no argument is going to work but I will try anyway.

It is different because we are closing in on 90k dead even with restrictions in place. We are no longer in Feb and March to say there is no risk. It doesn't seem any less deadly if a person died in ICU from stroke but they ended up there because of Covid. I mean Russian death totals are low. They seem to use their own way of counting.

Herd immunity was an option. Yet it didn't gain traction anywhere except Sweden? It is also hypothetical. You assume each person will develop antibodies to last for awhile. Again, it hasnt been proven.

You seem to rule out any possibility that something different, like this virus, can originate. Instead, you would rather believe in NWO and coordinated effort of Pinky and the Brain to take over the world.

I wish you were right. I have no desire or financial motives in espousing NWO theories. The whole narrative behind this pandemic is wrought with many question marks and begs to be looked at with different eyes. Believing in Fauci, WHO and Gates is not going to save us at this point.

It's interesting how people's perception of the world determines how they intrepret world events.

 

[owlegrad]

Who are you arguing with? Certainly not me since i did not make that point. Is my argument so indefensible that you have to make up a new argument to argue with yourself? Lol

Was I unclear? I felt like I was pretty clear. My bad.

My main intention was to try to figure out why age, comorbidities, and location matter when discussing COVID deaths. I don't think they do matter. If you agree with me, great! If not, that’s ok too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t think asking a COVID victim’s age, comorbidities, or location has any place in this discussion since there is no answer that actually matters.

Personally I think lives matter more than jobs. I also think unemployment benefits exist so no one should lose their house or die due to being out of work due to COVID. Again it’s ok if you disagree, it just means you are a horrible person.

 

[owlegrad]

Herd immunity was an option.

Herd immunity was never an option. In general it is very difficult to get herd immunity without a vaccine. By the time enough people got the disease the death toll (even if you think the numbers are inflated) would be astronomical. It's just a really, really bad idea.

Early Herd Immunity against COVID-19: A Dangerous Misconception - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Bloomberg School of Public Health epidemiologists David Dowdy and Gypsyamber D'Souza explain the misconceptions around herd immunity as we discuss when and how to phase in re-opening.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Protecting Health, Saving Lives—Millions at a Time.

www.jhsph.edu

 

[lane one]

Personally I think lives matter more than jobs. I also think unemployment benefits exist so no one should lose their house or die due to being out of work due to COVID. Again it’s ok if you disagree, it just means you are a horrible person.

Interesting position, considering low-socioeconomic status is correlated with poor health outcomes. What you should have said was, "Personally I think lives matter more now than lives in the future".

 

[owlegrad]

Interesting position, considering low-socioeconomic status is correlated with poor health outcomes. What you should have said was, "Personally I think lives matter more now than lives in the future".

Look give me a break here, we all know I am just spouting democrat talking points. I haven't got the talking point yet for this. I suspect it will be something like, "that's why we need a stronger social safety net". Yeah that sounds good, I am going to go with that until I receive the party-approved line.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Very interesting information, Frontline workers are testing positive less often then the general public.

 

[Old Timer]

Also, the number of COVID deaths has been greatly exaggerated due to how doctors are forced to list the cause of death as COVID. So a person can for example die from a myocardial infarction but if they had tested positive for COVID, the MD writes COVID as the cause of death even though there is no clear reason as to why COVID was the contributing factor.

There is a huge difference between someone dying WITH Covid and FROM Covid

What you know about this disease is so limited it couldn't be found in a thimble with scanning electron microscope.
You are oblivious to the fact this virus can attack any organ system. So many people who are dying or PE or MI, strokes or myocadidtis should acutally be classified as victims of Covid-19. By your logic we are way under counting not the other way around.

Association of Cardiac Injury With Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 in Wuhan, China

Renal histopathological analysis of 26 postmortem findings of patients with COVID-19 in China

Prevalence of venous thromboembolism in patients with severe novel coronavirus pneumonia

The Great Invader: How COVID-19 Attacks Every Organ

Large-Vessel Stroke as a Presenting Feature of Covid-19 in the Young

Just so I can give you anecdotal information you prize so much over you know, medical proof, my personal physician was wuarantined because a patient he was treating in the hospital for a UTI tested positive for Covid-19 and subsquent evaluation showed the UTI was caused by Covid-19.

I could spend the rest of my life showing you proof that you know nothing, nut then I would have to give up most on the Grassy Knoll.

May I suggest one of these:

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

You are just a *****. No two ways about it. What you know about this disease is so limited it couldn't be found in a thimble with scanning electron microscope.
You are oblivious to the fact this virus can attack any organ system. So many people who are dying or PE or MI, strokes or myocadidtis should acutally be classified as victims of Covid-19. By your logic we are way under counting not the other way around.

Association of Cardiac Injury With Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 in Wuhan, China

Renal histopathological analysis of 26 postmortem findings of patients with COVID-19 in China

Prevalence of venous thromboembolism in patients with severe novel coronavirus pneumonia

The Great Invader: How COVID-19 Attacks Every Organ

Large-Vessel Stroke as a Presenting Feature of Covid-19 in the Young

Just so I can give you anecdotal information you prize so much over you know, medical proof, my personal physician was wuarantined because a patient he was treating in the hospital for a UTI tested positive for Covid-19 and subsquent evaluation showed the UTI was caused by Covid-19.

I could spend the rest of my life showing you proof that you know nothing, nut then I would have to give up most on the Grassy Knoll.

May I suggest one of these:

View attachment 306474

Wow I am a ***** thanks for pointing that out. So are most other medical experts. You, Fauci and WHO are the only ones who know everything. You have all the right data. Congratulations.

I hope they come up with the vaccine soon enough so they can give it to you and when you get sick and die, they can write your cause of death as Covid.

I just farted and came down with diarrhea, I must be afflicted with Covid. Time to get tested.

 

[Old Timer]

Wow I am a ***** thanks for pointing that out. So are most other medical experts. You, Fauci and WHO are the only ones who know everything. You have all the right data. Congratulations.

I hope they come up with the vaccine soon enough so they can give it to you and when you get sick and die, they can write your cause of death as Covid.

I just farted and came down with diarrhea, I must be afflicted with Covid. Time to get tested.

Nothing more to say........... You said it all. Time to put you on ignore

 

[BidingMyTime]

I think we can finally put this topic to bed

Not really. Italy and France are using the combo hydroxychlorquine/zithromax/zinc as their standard of care, and apparently having great results from it (several different studies.) The difference is they are using far lower doses than were used in the NYC study, plus they are using zinc. This trio is going to be studied in the US (although it's not clear if they are going with lower doses of hydroxychlorquine as France and Italy are)

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

Not to defend any conspiracy theories as I too prefer to read the data. But... have you lost your mind? The economic dislocation didn't have to happen at all? Are you familiar with basic principles of economics?
People aren't working. Meanwhile, restaurants close, shifting food demand to grocers. Grocers can't expand supply chains fast enough to meet demand. Food prices increase as a result, forcing people to pay more for food while they have no income other than government stimulus. This happened. It's not an imagined scenario.

I think the point s/he was trying to make was that if we hadn't locked down, then the economy would have remained the same as it was. This goes along with the belief that the virus is all hype, so there was no need to have a lock-down and ruin the economy.

Of course, the reality is, if COVID spread exponentially--which it would have done without a lock-down--then people would be to sick to go to work or to buy anything, and healthy people seeing this would be scared and start calling in sick to their jobs, and also not going out and buying anything.

It also neglects the reality that China locked down and closed all the factories in Wuhan, one of their largest manufacturing facilities, during the 3rd week of January. And those factories still have only partially opened up. And since almost everything we buy in the US comes (at least in part) from China, even if we never got the virus in the US or locked anything down, our economy was still going to be majorly affected by the China shut-down. If a factory or company can't get needed parts from China, then people are going to get layed off, and then the ripple goes through the US affecting all parts of the economy.

Also, the number of COVID deaths has been greatly exaggerated due to how doctors are forced to list the cause of death as COVID. So a person can for example die from a myocardial infarction but if they had tested positive for COVID, the MD writes COVID as the cause of death even though there is no clear reason as to why COVID was the contributing factor.
There is a huge difference between someone dying WITH Covid and FROM Covid

This is 100% untrue on so many levels. 1) I think this false belief started because (at least in my state), names of people who tested positive for COVID are sent to the state, and then when they die, the state reports them as being a COVID death. HOWEVER, this is a preliminary report, the death reports are then looked at manually, and if the person died of something else, then their death is removed from the COVID count. If you actually follow COVID death counts, you will see that daily counts are indeed adjusted down slightly because of this correction, other countries are doing this as well. 2) COVID can cause a MI. It's not like any virus magically kills a person somehow, everyone who dies of a virus, dies because of respiratory failure, or pneumonia, or MI, or septic shock, or whatever. Just because MI, or pneumonia, or whatever could have other causes, if a person has COVID and then dies of MI, or pneumonia, it's a pretty good bet it was the COVID that killed them.

Are there outliar cases where someone was on hospice or otherwise critically ill, and then gets COVID, so it's hard to know what actually killed them? Yes, of course there murky cases like this, but these are few and far between and would not cause any statistical difference in the COVID death count.

The point is that many people that have died from COVID were elderly and had underlining conditions. Especially in Italy, >90% were very old and had 2 or more comorbidities.

 

[M0df]

I don't condone name calling but you did say at some point you enjoy and try to get a 'strong response' out of people. You got one but now you are complaining.

I also noticed you and Lazy liking everyone of each other posts. Sorta of a buddy system. So you can't really accuse people of supporting OldTimer.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I think it's time to close this thread, people can't seem to handle others opinions.

If you can't handle it, don't post. It's that simple. This goes to both people.

 

[BC_89]

Keep it civil.

Things such as name-calling is against TOS. This easily pulls things out of topic and the next thing you know someone is offended, retaliates, and others get troll-baited and down the rabbit hole we go.. Continuation will lead to a thread lockdown. Let's see how this goes

 

[PikminOC]

Start of socialized medicine like m4a

Why I Hope to Die at 75

An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly

www.google.com

 

[Sine Cura]

Start of socialized medicine like m4a

Why I Hope to Die at 75

An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly

www.google.com

Is CMS not a thing?

 

[Old Timer]

Start of socialized medicine like m4a

Why I Hope to Die at 75

An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly

www.google.com

Dude, you have NO clue about our medical system and unless you define "socialized medicine", your just throwing hand grenades. Define and we can speak. Aside from us and Papa New Guinea everyone else in the world has "Socialized" medicine of some kind. They are not all the same and most have better outcomes than we do. It would be different if we had better outcomes with our system. Which, by the way is not totally capitalistic. Once the consumer and the payer are separated our system breaks down.

 

[PikminOC]

Dude, you have NO clue about our medical system and unless you define "socialized medicine", your just throwing hand grenades. Define and we can speak. Aside from us and Papa New Guinea everyone else in the world has "Socialized" medicine of some kind. They are not all the same and most have better outcomes than we do. It would be different if we had better outcomes with our system. Which, by the way is not totally capitalistic. Once the consumer and the payer are separated our system breaks down.

Is there any level of personal responsibility in the US? You deal with patients too.

How do all the Democrats who are suddenly worried about the elderly reconciling their new concern with the attached article by Emanuel?

And Victor of Hunger games is completely corect

 

[Old Timer]

Is there any level of personal responsibility in the US? You deal with patients too.

No, there is no personal responsibility in the USA. We are a bunch whiny, narcissistic, *******.

How do all the Democrats who are suddenly worried about the elderly reconciling their new concern with the attached article by Emanuel?

They don't. Zeke Emmanuel is entitled to his position. He doesn't speak for anyone but himself. I am as respsonsible for him as Republicans are for Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram. You should see Dr. Laura shill for Hydroxychloroquine.

And Victor of Hunger games is completely corect

But it is nice how you raise a subject. Get a response and then ignore the response. What is socialized medicine. If socialized medicine is so bad, whay do we have worse outomes? Why are we alone with Papa New Guinea as the only country without "Socialized Medicine? You do realize we abandoned free market health care in the 90's?

 

[PikminOC]

No, there is no personal responsibility in the USA. We are a bunch whiny, narcissistic, *******.



They don't. Zeke Emmanuel is entitled to his position. He doesn't speak for anyone but himself. I am as respsonsible for him as Republicans are for Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram. You should see Dr. Laura shill for Hydroxychloroquine.


I put that ***** on ignore months if not years ago.

But it is nice how you raise a subject. Get a response and then ignore the response. What is socialized medicine. If socialized medicine is so bad, whay do we have worse outomes? Why are we alone with Papa New Guinea as the only country without "Socialized Medicine? You do realize we abandoned free market health care in the 90's?

We have bad outcomes due to lack of personal responsibility. You didn't connect that? Yeesh

 

[PikminOC]

If the argument is that old people should go ahead and die as long as it doesn’t hurt the economy too bad I think we are talking about how “sad” those deaths are. Same for people with comorbidities I guess.

I guess if they are going to die they should do so and decrease the surplus population.

This is exactly what Emanuel was saying in the article

 

[wagrxm2000]

The counterpoint that needs to stop being brought up is just because I for one want the government to give us our rights back doesn't mean I want people to die.

Healthy people up to even 50 and under have very little risk of dying from this. Let them make their decisions.

If you are older or have conditions that put you at risk, be cautious. Don't go to crowded areas.

There is no point in continuing to destroy the economy.

 

[Old Timer]

We have bad outcomes due to lack of personal responsibility. You didn't connect that? Yeesh

That's the only reason we have worse outcomes. In the entire world, only the US has obesity?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That's the only reason we have worse outcomes. In the entire world, only the US has obesity?

If you look at OECD nations, the only areas where we don't do pretty well correlate strongly with obesity which is a much bigger problem here than the other countries in the OECD.

 

[Old Timer]

If you look at OECD nations, the only areas where we don't do pretty well correlate strongly with obesity which is a much bigger problem here than the other countries in the OECD.

So our healthcare problem is because we are fat pigs

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So our healthcare problem is because we are fat pigs

Honestly that's a large part of it

 

[BMBiology]

So our healthcare problem is because we are fat pigs

This is nothing new. Everybody knows obesity is a major killer. People who are obese are more likely to die from the common flu.

 

[Old Timer]

Honestly that's a large part of it

What else is part of it? I'm serious. Because our health care system has evolved into a national disgrace. It is based on denying care to make profit for insurance companies. All day I call doctors to tell them what they ordered isn't medically necessary because some insurance company thinks so. And it is ALL about money. When Cox-2 inhibitors came out they all needed a P/A. Now that they are cheap generics, boom no PA required.

Our insurance system has turned all of healthcare into piece work. Pay less for each piece so the provider will perform more work for you in order to sustain their level of income.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What else is part of it? I'm serious. Because our health care system has evolved into a national disgrace. It is based on denying care to make profit for insurance companies. All day I call doctors to tell them what they ordered isn't medically necessary because some insurance company thinks so. And it is ALL about money. When Cox-2 inhibitors came out they all needed a P/A. Now that they are cheap generics, boom no PA required.

Our insurance system has turned all of healthcare into piece work. Pay less for each piece so the provider will perform more work for you in order to sustain their level of income.

I think a big part is the general contrary nature of Americans. I can find work arounds if insurance doesn't cover something, but the patient still has to actually take the medicine/get the test done/go to the specialist.

 

[Old Timer]

I think a big part is the general contrary nature of Americans. I can find work arounds if insurance doesn't cover something, but the patient still has to actually take the medicine/get the test done/go to the specialist.

So you don't mind the delay in therapy? It's nice to see an asthmatic at 4pm on Friday and order Symbicort only to find out they don't cover it and Dulera. No problem, they don't have to start until Monday morning anyway? This is good.

Adherence and personal responsibility is clearly an issue and there are many parts to that. But you can honestly tell me you think our health care system is ideal. If you do, it shows you are under 30 and have no knowledge about when it was ideal.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So you don't mind the delay in therapy? It's nice to see an asthmatic at 4pm on Friday and order Symbicort only to find out they don't cover it and Dulera. No problem, they don't have to start until Monday morning anyway? This is good.

Adherence and personal responsibility is clearly an issue and there are many parts to that. But you can honestly tell me you think our health care system is ideal. If you do, it shows you are under 30 and have no knowledge about when it was ideal.

My EMR interfaces with most insurance companies so that rarely happens and if not, that's why we have someone on call 24/7.

I've been an attending physician for 7 years, so I'm a bit over 30.

Find where I said our system is ideal.

 

[Old Timer]

My EMR interfaces with most insurance companies so that rarely happens and if not, that's why we have someone on call 24/7.

I've been an attending physician for 7 years, so I'm a bit over 30.

Find where I said our system is ideal.

You accept those kind of calls on the weekend? I don't make those calls on the weekend. Nobody in the Philly market has that kind of EMR.

So what is the ideal system?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You accept those kind of calls on the weekend? I don't make those calls on the weekend. Nobody in the Philly market has that kind of EMR.

So what is the ideal system?

Nobody in Philadelphia has Epic? I find it more likely that either the doctors don't pay attention or your local payers don't interface well. Down here Medicaid doesn't so I have to look that up manually (which I do).

Yes, that's part of the reason to have on call doctors.

My ideal system seems a bit beyond the scope of this thread, but feel free to search for it as I've outlined it on SDN multiple times in the past.

 

[Old Timer]

Nobody in Philadelphia has Epic? I find it more likely that either the doctors don't pay attention or your local payers don't interface well. Down here Medicaid doesn't so I have to look that up manually (which I do).

Yes, that's part of the reason to have on call doctors.

My ideal system seems a bit beyond the scope of this thread, but feel free to search for it as I've outlined it on SDN multiple times in the past.

If you can't outline it in a paragraph or two, fine.. I'm not searching your posts

 

[Old Timer]

This is nothing new. Everybody knows obesity is a major killer. People who are obese are more likely to die from the common flu.

If you look at OECD nations, the only areas where we don't do pretty well correlate strongly with obesity which is a much bigger problem here than the other countries in the OECD.

So Americans are fat pigs. That's partly true. What about our food delivery system. Factory farming? Feeding cows corn so as to chnage the entire biochemistry of meat? What about getting produce from Belgium? What about food deserts in low income neighborhood? Not that it's the most healthy food but we export almost 100% of our shrimp and import from the farmed toilets of China? We are so far from our food that it barely resembles food. How good are trans fats for heart health. And now that they are being phased out what about the replacement chemicals? Why are portions sizes increasing. Coke was originally sold in an a single serving size of 8 oz now it's 20 oz. The food industry has nothing to do with our general health, no siree Bob....

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So Americans are fat pigs. That's partly true. What about our food delivery system. Factory farming? Feeding cows corn so as to chnage the entire biochemistry of meat? What about getting produce from Belgium? What about food deserts in low income neighborhood? Not that it's the most healthy food but we export almost 100% of our shrimp and import from the farmed toilets of China? We are so far from our food that it barely resembles food. How good are trans fats for heart health. And now that they are being phased out what about the replacement chemicals? Why are portions sizes increasing. Coke was originally sold in an a single serving size of 8 oz now it's 20 oz. The food industry has nothing to do with our general health, no siree Bob....

I didn't say people were personally 100% responsible for being fat

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you can't outline it in a paragraph or two, fine.. I'm not searching your posts

In super brief:

Get insurance out of primary care and as much as we can (that would be very affordable otherwise) and make it more like traditional insurance - meaning not prepaid benefits but coverage for unexpected things: cancer, trauma, appendicitis, autoimmune diseases, stuff like that.

Much of health care can be very cheap if done without insurance.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I didn't say people were personally 100% responsible for being fat

You sound like a sensible person. Being that you're an attending and what not, I wouldn't waste time arguing lol

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You sound like a sensible person. Being that you're an attending and what not, I wouldn't waste time arguing lol

Meh, volume is still low so I'm bored.

Plus I feel like us doctors don't actually interact with you pharmacists enough to understand each other's perspectives on what we do and why and there's significant value in that. It's why I pop in here as much as I do.

 

[Old Timer]

Is there any level of personal responsibility in the US? You deal with patients too.

So what personal responsibility are we talking about?