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Sure does, especially when you might be doing pap smears and rectal exams
. Bless those PA souls.
The HRSA predicts an oversupply of ~50,000 pharmacists by 2025; similar predictions for NPs/PAs
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Sure does, especially when you might be doing pap smears and rectal exams
. Bless those PA souls.Of course not. We need at least five or six threads dedicated to the topic.
I can barely be pleasant to the people in my office for a single day.
Yes it does; the reasoning is that I don't want to be tied to pharmacy and get so far along with school that the whole "sunk costs" issue makes it infeasible to quit and do something else.
The whole thread doesn't make sense? I guess that means you also flat-out deny the findings of basically every statistical job market projection for pharmacists (similar to APhA, ACPE, etc.)?
Yeah, right. C's? This isn't medical school, dude.
No, but all PA's and AA's actually DO make what even the "better-paid" clinical pharmacists make, and they didn't even have to spend 4 years getting a doctoral degree and 1-2 (soon to be 3) years of residency to qualify for it, just to end up applying for a very small pool of jobs. Actually, when you do an apples-to-apples comparison (I.e., residency-trained pharmacist to residency-trained PA), the residency-trained PA still only spends just over 3 years total in school and training, and unlike in the pharmacy field, completing a residency actually DOES lead to most PA's earning a higher salary.
But the most significant point is... even if not all PA's and AA's are earning $140k, at least they all have (and will have, for the foreseeable future) jobs!
As one of my former bosses was fond of saying. "****, or get off the pot!"
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Your talking to the wrong person. I'm in the second half of my career not a student. None of these stats matter to me. I'll be retired before anything happens.
Sounds to me you are way too paranoid to even be in either field. You'll be second guessing yourself your whole life.
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Anywhere outside of maybe say CA, retail chain pharmacists make the most money, and they don't need a residency. Of course, you have said at the beginning you didn't want to work retail, and people repeatedly told you that 70% of pharmacy jobs are in retail, so I'm not sure why this would be a surprise to you now.
And I have seen just as dire job predictions for PA's, as I have for pharmacists. More and more places are preferentially hiring APN's, because it many states they do not have to have a covering physician....unlike PA's, who must have a covering physician in all 50 states. I do not believe the job you are looking for exists (one with high pay, and plentiful job opportunities in a major cities.) And I don't recommend you switch to APN (which you already said you wouldn't do because you don't want to deal poop, vomit, etc.), but I think APN's are going to beat out PA's in the end (just as CRNA's have beat out AA's in most job markets.) I think overall PA's have the better training, but APN's by far have been organization.
Just as when you were looking at pharmacy, and people told you facts about it, and you didn't want to hear them, so you ignored them and entered pharmacy school anyway--I think you are now ignoring the facts about PA, it is not the pie in the sky job that you are imagining it to be.
The upside to PA school is that yes, even though the PA profession will be saturated eventually, it won't happen anytime soon (like I said in my other post, there is still time for someone to go to PA school, graduate, and get a job in most cities).
The talk about NP's beating out PA's is just speculation. There are thousands of jobs out there for both professionals. Are there any statistical studies you've seen that indicate this is happening? (serious question). Keep in mind, you said the same thing about dentists being likely to deal with encroachment from hygienists in the future, but there's no evidence to suggest that will actually happen. Here in GA, the laws regarding NP supervision are more strict as compared to those in blue states, so there isn't much of an advantage to being an NP here. Also, a study came out within the last year showing that PA's tend to get more specialist jobs, if that's what someone wants.
BTW, the AAPA is progressing forward with legislation that actually has a chance of getting passed (unlike the various pharmacy misadventures -- provider status, etc.) that will relax PAs' supervision requirements. They're already more lax than they are for AA's, who have to practice with an anesthesiologist physically on-site (not the case with PA supervision). To the contrary, I don't think PA is a pie-in-the-sky profession; I just recognize that, as compared to pharmacy, it at least provides a stable, well-paying career that will have a good job market for the foreseeable future, or at least long enough to matter for me. It's also nice to know that competing a residency in that profession actually results in earning a higher income.
Also, speaking of AA's, I think you are off with your statement that CRNA's have beat out AA's in most job markets. CRNA's definitely have taken over rural independent practice since AA's can't work in those practices anyways, but there are still plenty of practices in both large and small towns that hire AA's. The job market for AA's is definitely smaller than the one for CRNA's, and that's always been the case due to their inherently stricter supervision requirements, but there's no evidence that suggests that it's contracting. But for a current snapshot of the AA job market, see below:
http://gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist-Assistants/Job/All
If you notice, there are job openings for AA's to work in Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, and several other desirable large cities. Yes, you're absolutely right about their job market being more limited, but that's exactly the point I was trying to make, which is that even the job market for a more limited professional group like AA's (who can't even work in 20 states) is STILL much better off than the one for pharmacists. So even with the political onslaught from CRNA's and the undeniable advantage that they have in regards to independence and supervision requirements, AA's still have a better chance of working in non-BFE territory upon graduation than pharmacists. It's simple supply/demand; there might not be a great deal of demand for AA's as compared to CRNA's, but since they haven't opened 100+ AA schools over the last decade, the annual supply of graduates can still be accommodated by employers, even if there isn't much demand.
BTW, on the subject of NP's, there are now direct-entry NP programs (I think I've mentioned them before) that only take 6-8 months longer to complete than a standard NP program, so it is probably worth checking into those as well.
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I got in trouble for asking this poster be sent off to banned camp last time.... but this thread is just running around in circles as he contemplates life. It's exhausting.
Be concise when you post PA2Pharm. No one wants to read that wall of text.
Be concise when you post PA2Pharm. No one wants to read that wall of text.
Why would I go out of my way to make a response short just so for you when the post wasn't even in response to you?
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No, actually ALL PA's don't. Look at what the bottom 10% make:
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291071.htm
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291071.htm
And since you aren't willing to move far away, or live in a "crappy rural area", what if you end up only making ~$30/hr as a PA? Are you going to be happy/satisfied with that? Based on your post history, I seriously doubt it.
No, I wouldn't want to be a PA/NP for $30/hr, but keep in mind that hospital pharmacists here start out at around $39. In my area, NPs/PAs start out at $85-$90k, even for primary care. The $30 an hour salaries are probably being offered in saturated areas, which won't happen here for another 10 years. My area actually has a shortage of all healthcare providers except pharmacists, and the only reason there are no pharmacy jobs here anymore is because the pharmacist oversupply is getting so severe that pharmacists are taking jobs here just because the only alternative is legit BFE (and those areas will probably become saturated as well with the c/o 2017 graduating classes). For PAs, I know for a fact that those who work in surgical specialist practices here make $120k. Also, keep in mind that completing a 1-year residency leads to a pay increase for most PAs. Either way, even if some PAs make less than some pharmacists, PAs seem to be getting better benefits packages these days (more vacation time, etc.) and for half the time/money spent in school. And money aside -- not having to move to BFE (or possibly not have a job at all, considering that even BFE is on track to becoming saturated) is probably worth a pay cut.
I am also going to move forward with applying to AA schools as well. As you can see, that profession's salary situation is on a totally different plane as compared to PAs, NPs, and pharmacists:
http://gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist-Assistants/Job/All
As you can see, there's no getting around the fact that AA/CRNA is a great deal. I really screwed up when I let myself get kicked out of AA school. I should've been practicing 5 hours a day in the lab. Not only do AAs start out at higher starting salaries than most pharmacists, but their max incomes at most practices are way higher than the max incomes of any pharmacist. Also, check out a few of the job listings and see how much PTO is offered. Most practices are offering 6+ weeks of vacation, holidays, and sick days. Pharmacists are lucky to get 2 weeks to start, which might increase to 3 after a few years on the job.
This can't be for surgical PAs. I know they start out here at $130k. I know a plastic surgery PA who completed a 1-year surgical residency after PA school, and she gets a flat fee of $250 per surgery plus a base of around $100k. From what I have been told, this sort of arrangement is also somewhat common for orthopedic surgery PAs.
If the state of modern pharmacy has become so pathetic that someone can derive satisfaction from something that trivial, then I guess I'm happy for you.
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Haven't read all the goings on but have you sent in apps to PA yet? Is a refund possible for RX, doubt it though.
Will being a PA make you happy? Without that school will be tough!
In the process of applying to both PA and AA programs now. No refund at this point for pharmacy school (pretty much all schools have done away with what used to be the standard refund schedules). It's too late to worry about happiness. I think that a job as a radiology PA would work (unless I go to AA school).
The salary ranges for a PA in every hospital I have ever worked at has been less than the range for pharmacists. It's probably easier to get the PA job, it's pretty obvious that pharmacists are still making more.
I'll happily add to that count!
I'm highly skeptical of that starting salary. Not that it's impossible.. back in 2014 I saw a salary range for my institution that showed someone making $39/hr, but everyone I knew started in the mid $40 range. I wonder if that is for some sort of special position? Maybe something partially funded elsewhere? Hard to imagine anyone accepting that. I'd like to think that no one is that desperate, but maybe the new generation is just afraid to fight for what they are worth.
Man, if it was me I would avoid AA. Far too narrow of a focus. PA gives you almost unlimited opportunities in so many different areas. In fact.. could you get into anesthesia as a PA or do you specifically have to be an AA? It just feels like a PA can do almost anything. With the job market as it is, that's where I would go. I would say go for NP, but I feel like the training is so much better in PA programs. It follows the medical model and I feel like it produces better practitioners, but that's just my own personal bias.
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I find that hard to believe, even in super-saturated places like Chicago or New York or LA. I'm not saying there isn't some individual institution that might be trying to hire pharmacists at that salary, but I don't believe that is a going starting salary in any area.
Seriously? No. seriously? I would tell you to go back and read your old posts, but you deleted them. Pretty much EVERYONE here at the time told you your best option would be to reapply to your AA school for readmittance, but you said that wasn't possible, because you couldn't handle the stress of making life and death decisions and that was why you failed out of school? Have you done anything to remedy that? (ie seek psychological counseling, take a stress management course, etc.) You refused to listen to people then, and went ahead and started pharmacy school even though pretty much EVERYONE was telling you that was a bad idea. Now you want to go back to AA school, have you forgotten all the reasons you eloquently gave previously on why you couldn't/wouldn't do that?
I'll say it once again, and I really hope you listen this time. You need to put a moratorium on making ANY career/school changes, until you've sat down and talked with a trained psychologist.
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deleted820760
You got in trouble for that?!?! Yet, OP is in the Pharmacy forum all day, every day, talking about how pharmacy sucks and he wants to be a PA. WTH? Then why doesn't OP just drop out of pharmacy school so we don't have to hear about it anymore?
There were other factors at play when it came to me doing poorly in AA school (not liking the area I was living in, among other things, and being too short-sighted to realize all that would be temporary), and I realized after the fact that I was using the reasons you mentioned as exaggerated excuses for why "it wasn't a good fit for me." There are people who are significantly dumber than me (I.e., the AA student equivalent of the how-on-earth-do-they-even-pass-the-classes pharmacy student) who are now about to graduate from AA school. I realize I simply didn't put in effort before and am ready to get over the BS. At the same time, it has become apparent that the pharmacy field is quickly becoming an even worse bet than it was 6 months ago. As an aside, I really am genuinely curious to see how bad the job market will be this summer, a few months after the c/o 2017 has flooded the market.
I would just stop replying to this thread completely or lock it. This thread has devolved into PAtoPharm's personal journal than a professional discussion about pharmacy saturation.
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Then where will some of us go for our daily entertainment? The SDN Pharmacy forums are so stale these days...
@PAtoPharm : will you start a new thread, called "My Journey: PA to Pharm then back to PA" or something? Thanks!
When I officially get accepted to PA school and am officially out of the pharmacy field, I won't be posting here anymore. What's the point?
Damn it, we invested a year in you. You at least owe us an update.
I guess I'll post one. I just figured it would be met with more of the usual ("you'll just fail out of that too," "you'll find a reason to drop out of PA school," etc.).
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I agree, what is wrong with having a pharmacy related soap opera thread?
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I'd rather hear that you succeeded in whatever path you ended up choosing. Sorry that you think you would get that response, but talking constantly about "I'm going to apply to this, that, PA, RN, CRNA, AA, etc." gets old... we just want to see some action out of you for once. Actions > words.... time to make **** happen man. Throw us an update here or there, and good luck.
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That's a piss-poor and selfish attitude to have, considering all the advice you received here over the past year and a half. Whether or not you get accepted and matriculate into your 3rd professional program in healthcare in 4 years, you have a unique story/background and can actually offer a lot to this board. I hope you'll consider sticking around, to entertain us, and keep us updated on your progress (or lack thereof) in PA school. And if you don't get accepted into PA school, I'm really curious what your Plan-D is (NMT, Dental Hygiene, etc.). I would like to follow that journey also.
39/hour is 81k/year, not far off from your NP/PA quote of 85k. I looked at the nearby big-ish hospital and they have clinical pharm start at 100k (n=4) and NP/PA start at 95k(n=2/n=1). Again, not a big difference. 1-2 dollars/hour should not make or break any career decisions.
I guess I just figured nobody actually wanted to keep seeing updates related to my career choosing BS on here. If people really are curious to know what happens, I'll keep posting updates. Based on others' responses, it just started sounding like everyone else considered this stuff to be OT talk.
It's not so much the amount of money that clinical pharmacists make in comparison to PAs and NPs, but more about the comparisons of their job markets and how many years of school and training it takes to enter each profession (I.e., it takes 4 years of pharmacy school + 1-2 years of residency to make about what a PA makes after 2 years of school).
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You're incorrect... I have got a few offers for clinical pharmacist positions (no residency), ranging from 48/hr to 58/hr. Just throwing it out there man. Obviously the lower end is an extreme low balling, but it is what it is. 58/hr is good money.
The majority of PA schools are going towards a 3 yr curriculum as well. I assume all of them will eventually do so, there is too much to learn in 28 months for them to be ready to prescribe drugs.
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At least where I am, the job markets aren't that different. PAs/NPs who specialize in certain areas (psych, geri, peds) are in higher demand (and can make a ton more), but family practice seems about the same as pharmacy. Also around here residency is still just desired, not required. And the PA program is 2.5 years, NP is 4 years. You're already 1 year into pharmacy aren't you?
Are you just looking for a stable good paying job? Why not pick a trade? Go into welding, plumbing, electrical, or HVAC. The return on investment for the education required in those fields seems great. You won't be making 6 figures right out of school, but $30/hr after 2 years at CC with a student loan debt of <10k would be pretty great.
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TX & AR.
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Jeez, in the arctic circle, we're at $62-65 for hospitals.
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I am interested to see if a PA school will give you a shot. I have no idea how competitive PA schools are nationwide, my local PA school received 2,400 apps for 100 spots. I said this before, but if I was an admission counselor and saw your track record, I'd be very skeptical; and that's a very nice way of putting it..
A lot of us do not come accross many people with your POV and rationale... with the loan burden and effort to get into professional school, most do not consider dropping out... even more rare do you encounter someone who did not maximize their effort to pass a course just bc discontent with the location...IMO these actions are not seen in grad students and especially students who are in their mid to late 20's... at that point in one's life, I had my mind of graduating, starting my life, etc.. you could be right to drop out of pharmacy school, you'll never know how you would have done as an rph though, so can't really say if you are right or not... however, you have to admit that you haven't been right recently... you were def warned abt state of pharmacy... you can make excuses, but that doesn't change the outcome. Also, if the law does not change for ibr, paye, etc and you have to get on one of those plans you will be paying income tax on the loan amount that you did not pay back...
A lot of us do not come accross many people with your POV and rationale... with the loan burden and effort to get into professional school, most do not consider dropping out... even more rare do you encounter someone who did not maximize their effort to pass a course just bc discontent with the location...IMO these actions are not seen in grad students and especially students who are in their mid to late 20's... at that point in one's life, I had my mind of graduating, starting my life, etc.. you could be right to drop out of pharmacy school, you'll never know how you would have done as an rph though, so can't really say if you are right or not... however, you have to admit that you haven't been right recently... you were def warned abt state of pharmacy... you can make excuses, but that doesn't change the outcome. Also, if the law does not change for ibr, paye, etc and you have to get on one of those plans you will be paying income tax on the loan amount that you did not pay back...
Even with a 3-year curriculum, PA school is still financially a better deal than pharmacy, especially when you consider that PA's get better benefits and more vacation time than most pharmacists. When making the comparison to AA's, who usually make significantly more than general PA's, the difference in income and benefits is even greater (and don't forget that AA school is just over half as long as pharmacy school). Having to move to BFE for the majority of pharmacy positions these days makes it an even worse deal.
Never really been interested in a trade since my education up to this point has been focused on science and healthcare.
Regarding my statements about the job market for PA's being better than the one for pharmacists, I meant that that they also had a better job market in terms of how many jobs are actually available for PA's as compared to pharmacists (not just about how much money they do or don't make as compared to pharmacists).
You bring up an interesting point about how most people in my situation would just be ready to graduate and start their professional life. That's a nice thought, but the irony of doing that with pharmacy is that the actual reality of how that will play out (I.e., moving to BFE, being miserable) is actually more undesirable than continuing in my current situation for a few more years as I "reboot" yet again. In other words, I would rather deal with even more delays to starting my professional adult life than move to a rural wasteland for an indefinite period of time to do it.
Also, I think it's important to keep in mind that proceeding forward with pharmacy school under the expectation that I will simply have to resign myself to accepting a BFE job is, itself, a very optimistic mentality to have, especially since every single job market projection (even those published by the ACPE) indicates that there will be tens of thousands of unemployed pharmacists in a few years, and that's after even all the BFE jobs have been taken. I just don't have it in me to try and do what it takes to be a top 10%-ranking pharmacy student just so that I can get a BFE wasteland job. It's like risking hundreds of thousands of dollars in the stock market because, at best, you hope to get a $1.00 return.
B
Beezlebub
US is already overRx as it is. Nobody can predict the future and I doubt these No's are accurate. Granted there are some pretty solid projection models out there, but in this case too many var's are involved to quantitatively assess a std. mean for a confidence intv. Ultimately, the system is rooted in politics and esp. lobbyists from spec. interest groups and how the world economy plays out. Too many factors for any individual to predict.
Also, I've noticed quite a lot of immaturity on this thread attacking the OP (ad hominem) instead of focusing on the debate.
Also, I've noticed quite a lot of immaturity on this thread attacking the OP (ad hominem) instead of focusing on the debate.
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If you think about it, how could the prediction numbers not be accurate? The only way they wouldn't be is if some unknown demand-increasing factor was just around the corner. Wouldn't there be at least one job market projection that actually shows a somewhat favorable future pharmacist job market (as opposed to all of them being negative in nature)?
B
Beezlebub
source (must include study design and the origin of data extrapolation) or this is pure BS
At least 2 of these studies were created by the BLS and the HRSA (another government department); I seriously don't think they're BS.
Regardless of issues you have with the design of the study, the overall trend is undeniable. No one is trying to get published here. The writing has been on the wall for a decade, anecdotal stories have been adding up, and this gives support to the reality that so many people are reporting.
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Idk...we are struggling to fill positions at the hospital I'm at. My team alone we have 4 vacancies, and almost 20 more FTEs are needed for the pharmacy alone. I'm in a big highly desirable metro city.
Hey, where are you located? Plenty of people would be interested. I bet you could post a job here and get some applicants that way. Lots of people seem to be tied to their hometown, but there are also a lot of guys like me that wouldn't hesitate to move across the country for a decent job.
This is really turning into a national market. I'm in a small, rural state so we sometimes struggle to find qualified applicants for our more advanced jobs just because the market isn't there. Luckily we have fostered a good environment of training and internal promotion. We have a pretty healthy culture of hiring our interns and sculpting them in strong practitioners. It's something I'm proud of, but I still have memories of living in a more saturated area and how terrible it is.
I think that's what I'm always careful to point towards the trend data. One area may have a healthy amount of openings at any given time, but things have been going down pretty steadily for a decade. Some places are still pretty isolated from that, and others have been hit very hard. You never know when a big player might move in and create a huge demand, or even something as simple as an unpopular director taking over a department leading to a mass exodus.
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Nobody in their right mind can deny the reality of saturation, even the deans and new schools are no longer mentioning shortage. I think that one can argue that a licensed RPh, especially with a residency, can still manage to find a job through networking, hard work, and just simply outworking others. I've spoken to retail RPh, hospital, and professors; all will tell you that the profession is at all time low.
What I find kind of interesting is that, at least locally, the pharmacist job market had been in a state of "pretty good" for the past 10+ years, and then it just all of a sudden got saturated over the most recent fall/winter. I know some of you have to remember some of the threads I posted on the forum prior to the saturation in which I asked everything from what it was like to work as a 7 on/7 off CVS nightshift pharmacist, to whether the $18/hour shift differential a local hospital was offering in their job posting for a new weekend evening shift pharmacist was a good deal. I'm just reminiscing here, but I remember gwarm01 responding to the latter thread saying that an $18/hour shift differential was "pretty great," and that his own hospital only offered a few dollars per hour for evening/night shift differential. The reason I was posting all those threads about what it was like to work in XYZ setting is because I was referencing actual live job postings.
I'm just making a random analogy here, but I would say that (on a local level) reaching the job market saturation point was like finally pouring too much water in a glass. Even when the glass is only a half inch or so from overflowing, it is still able to fill-up with more water as long as there is some space available in the glass, but as soon as the water reaches the edge of the glass, it immediately starts overflowing. The only reason I'm making that comparison is because it seems like for a lot of pharmacists, their local job markets had progressively become more saturated over the last 10 years, but in my area, the job market was consistently in good shape until this past fall/winter. Maybe it's a coincidence (although the latest Pharmacy Manpower study seems to indicate this), but it makes me wonder if the "instigating factor" that finally led to my area hitting saturation point is that the schools in GA have finally graduated more pharmacists than there are jobs in the state as of the c/o 2016, and in addition, the majority of currently practicing pharmacists are younger graduates in their 20s/30s/40s who all recently graduated within the last ~10 years (meaning there is very little turnover now due to retirements).
BTW, on the topic of residency, I still say it just doesn't make sense. Even if a residency-trained pharmacist makes more than $85k, they usually don't make much more than $100k, and even then, the job market is very limited for them since there simply aren't very many clinical pharmacy jobs in existence. Isn't that what led to the whole issue of a residency being required just to get an entry-level hospital pharmacist job now?
Another reason it doesn't make sense is because with more and more residencies transitioning to PGY-2s and PGY-3s, that means it will take just as long (or almost just as long) to become a hospital pharmacist as it takes to become a primary care physician, who usually start at ~2x a hospital pharmacist's salary or more. Also, I think I read somewhere that even the job market for residency-trained pharmacists is tightening up, primarily because there are more pharmacists completing residencies every year but not that many positions available in general. I just couldn't imagine spending my time completing 2-3 years of residency even if I did finish pharmacy school. If I'm going to spend that much time in school and residency training, medical or dental school would be the only routes that justify doing so.
Another reason it doesn't make sense is because with more and more residencies transitioning to PGY-2s and PGY-3s, that means it will take just as long (or almost just as long) to become a hospital pharmacist as it takes to become a primary care physician, who usually start at ~2x a hospital pharmacist's salary or more. Also, I think I read somewhere that even the job market for residency-trained pharmacists is tightening up, primarily because there are more pharmacists completing residencies every year but not that many positions available in general. I just couldn't imagine spending my time completing 2-3 years of residency even if I did finish pharmacy school. If I'm going to spend that much time in school and residency training, medical or dental school would be the only routes that justify doing so.
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Everything that you said is untrue. In Southern CA, hospital pharmacists that work for major hospitals make $65-$78 her hour, I make $70, that's abt the avg from what I've gathered. PGY2 residencies are still a novelty for the most part, most hospitals are ok with a PGY-1. There are multiple posters here who are working in hospitals and do not complain about job quality and are quite content. It's mostly the retail RPh who are complaining about quality of life etc. This is a major reason that people do amb care, managed care, hosp residencies. Those jobs have high satisfaction rates and stability, which is the incentive for completing a residency.
Residency has become the standard for jobs outside of retail. If you agree with it or not, the employers do not care.
I'm just gonna say that California is in its own special bubble in regards to hospital pay and attitude towards residency. I'm not demeaning it; on the contrary, it's very nice and good for ya'll and it totally makes sense especially considering cost of living. But it really isn't the same situation most other places.
You really need to find a better source of information, cause I'm finding more and more information from your posts that are either false or half-truths. In Georgia, pharmacists on average (even hospital ones) make more than PAs. I'm not going to go out of my way to prove that with examples, but it's a fairly easily verifiable fact. You can probably check on the PA forums here. Of course, there are always exceptions depending on the type of work they each do and possible specializations. In that regard, PA does have more routes of upward mobility and salary increases, but I get the impression that you're not too interested in surgery or doing more years of school than you already have/need to. In pharmacy, it's mostly just side-grades unless you choose to go into administration. In regards to benefits/PTO, I was under the impression that these were institution specific rather than job specific. Even if that's not the case for all hospitals, I started off at 4.5 weeks, but I'm EXTREMELY skeptical that PAs start at more than 5 weeks off.
As an aside, if you work as a PA in an inpatient setting AND make the upper end of money, you're going to encounter poop, pee, vomit, or blood. I guarantee it. What are you going to do, diagnose from outside the room?
Second, there are, as of yet or at least that I know of, no official or accredited PGY3s that exist. You can check the ASHP online residency direction. It may come in the future, but right now it's just an idea among a select few people. At this point, PGY-2 is not mandatory for the majority of clinical jobs. Only specialized fields such as Oncology or Transplant would require them. I won't deny though that it will be difficult to obtain a hospital job without either a) extended experience or b)a PGY1 though it is still possible. This is as true now as it was when I said the same thing to you about the hospitals in your area some years ago. The only major difference between now and then is that retail positions have closed up as well, but you don't seem to be as concerned about retail.
You keep mentioning that pharmacy school will take longer than PA. While true, pharmacy does take 4 years + 1 possible residency and PA takes 2.5 + 1 possible residency, you neglect to mention that most pharmacy schools only require 2 years of pre-requisites while PA schools require a bachelor's (at least all the school in GA anyway). Probably irrelevant to your case, but the distinction should be made.
Finally, you may not think your city is considered a major city, but it is for Georgia. Go ahead and google it. There's a reason why your area is saturating.
I don't know much of anything about the job market and salaries in CA, but obviously the pharmacists in that state have it much better than those here in the southeast. I know it's not the case in CA, but here in GA, residency-trained pharmacists really do make only $100k-$110k to start.
Hold on a second... at the beginning of your post, you said that everything I said was untrue, but in my post, I mentioned that residency has become the entry-level standard for non-retail pharmacy jobs, and at the end of your post, you agreed that's the case. So what am I actually wrong about, besides the fact that salaries for hospital pharmacists in CA are higher than they are in GA? The other thing I said was that the time/money commitment vs. ROI of completing a pharmacy residency doesn't make sense when compared to the fact that medical school + residency takes just as long but for a much higher ROI (I.e., 2x as high salary, more vacation, better benefits).
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