Trinity matched 1 applicant for Ortho at U of T. But only one person applied this year, the rest chose to stay for intern year.The 4 major schools match fairly well. Very few North Americans have gone to Galway until recently and Limerick will have their first graduating class next year so we will see how they do. RCSI usually do well in the match (They kicked ass this year with over 20 matching first round in Canada) and traditionally, most of their students go to the US although that trend is changing. I would say they do fairly comparably with the other schools but with 4-5x the North American student population, you will expect some outliers both on the high and low end of the spectrum. I don't think Trinity has matched as well recently but that's just what I've been told. Also, traditionally, UCD students do very well on Step 1 and UCC students have quietly been successful.
In the acceptance letter it says that they don't guarantee north american students to match in the intern year though...Trinity matched 1 applicant for Ortho at U of T. But only one person applied this year, the rest chose to stay for intern year.
I can't comment on Trinity, but in my class at UCC of the 8 who matched in Canada that year, 4 matched to Family, 1 to public health, one to internal, one to anaesthetics, one to pathology. The next year they had an ortho and a rads, as well as a couple of family meds (smaller class). The class ahead of me, one matched to OB, one to Family, one elected to stay in Ireland for intern year for family reasons (they were a really small cohort). I don't know what this year's bunch did. Part of that is that people who want to do the more competitive specialties often don't even try in Canada, and part of it is that those who go to Ireland are already interested in family, or have been brainwashed by 5 years of "well, you won't get into X specialty as an IMG" and so don't even try. As I keep saying, if you go, know what you are getting into and also talk to a regional health board once you are 1-2 years into it (and then again later when you are 3-4 years) and see if someone will sponsor you. You can even negotiate from your residency - my program will happily pay for me to go do an EM year or palliative care as both are in demand, and they would also sponsor Geris, come to think of it. Often electives are a good time to make those connections too. Expect rejection, but there will be some positive responses in among them. Cheers,In the acceptance letter it says that they don't guarantee north american students to match in the intern year though...
They gave me also a list of past matched students. Seems that 75% of students going back to canada are matched in FM... All the good specialties go to the US.
Does anyone know more about Trinity?
Alrighty so here's a VERY prelim match list...it's incomplete, and the locations are probably inaccurate...but it's a start. I have no idea where RCSI peeps matched in the US.Irish students = EU students. An Italian applicant who is 9th in his/her class will "match" ahead of an Irish student ranked 10th. This is straight from the mouth of the main person in charged of these changes in February (Ireland is finally trying to obey the law). It has always been the case that EU will have preference over non-EU so it's nothing new. North Americans have been obtaining intern spots for years. I don't foresee many applicants from the rest of the EU (you'll probably have to worry more about the UK). I do foresee a mad scramble by med students around the island all trying to "match" in Dublin. Again, as this is Ireland, rules and laws are more like guidelines. The schools will do what they can to find you a training scheme which now includes GP, radiology, etc. and not just medicine and surgery. Intern training will be harder to obtain as the years go by especially with the slashing of the budgets so be prepared.
Again, general trend for North Americans: RCSI mostly to the USA. The other 3 schools consist mostly of Canadians who return to Canada. FM is the most matched although not as prevalent in UCD.
Actually, at most of the Irish schools, except RCSI, the Canadians outnumber Americans by about 4:1 - when I started at UCC we outnumbered them 5:1 in my class and by graduation we outnumbered them 13:1. These numbers above probably represent about 2/3 of the American students who tried to match.So about 5 matched in the US out of how many, 25-30 US students?
Success stories are great, but we need the N to interpret the results.
And that is quite fair.I'm glad to hear the Canucks are doing ok, but I'm not sure why this turned into a thread about Canadians matching in Canada.
I'll be more specific with my question. How many Americans are there in Irish schools plus any other people applying to match in the US? How many matched? in what specialties? and where?
There is too much of a selection bias in the reporting of match results. It's natural for people who did well to want to brag and for others to hide their lack of success, but that ends up misleading college students who are thinking of applying to Irish schools.
I think you have to count people who failed their boards as failed matches even though they didn't technically apply for the match; that's why I would include all Americans plus some Canadians and some others in my denominator.
True, you don't have all the information.
The Atlantic Bridge Program could and should provide this information to potential aaplicants. It's suspiciously absent.
For a school's students to qualify for financial aid from the US, they have to report USMLE statistics back to some federal bureaucrats. It would be nice to get macth results, but they could definately report USMLE results. They collect them already. Seems to me they would be more than happy to report these results if they reflected favorably on the schools.I know it sounds slightly naive, but I honestly don't think the Atlantic Bridge keeps tabs on anything other than applications.
I'd say the information gap is more from the schools themselves. But knowing the administrations here, it may be more apathetic than malicious.
This is a question to you and anyone who studied in Ireland.I don't know about that loan situation....do you have a source?
Anyways, other than RCSI, there are few Americans in the other schools and few want to return to the US. There are 4 Americans in my class and none of them are interested in returning home. Not one has written the USMLE Step 1. There are even fewer Americans in the year ahead and even fewer Americans in Cork. I'm pretty sure they are all on government student loans too. The point is, if you want to examine the success and failures of Irish students, poll the Canadians. It is much harder for a Canadian to obtain a residency in the US than an American and it's 10x harder than that to return to Canada. The success that Canadians have found should be encouraging.
I don't know why you're focused on the USMLE results. IMO it's not the biggest hurdle you will encounter. If you wish to gauge the Irish education this way, then they are top notch. Like I said, most do very well on Step 1 (the most important one) and even better on Step 2. I would put up the results of my class with any school in the US. After a few more write it, I anticipate 50% will score 99. That's right 99 and the number will be in the double digits. For the new members on this board, read the archives and see the bull that has been posted. Irish students do poorly on Step 1 is one of them. Another one was that hell will freeze over before 4 year programs happen in Ireland. Kind of funny.
Also, ABP does nothing but deal with applications. You will never interact with them again once accepted and they certainly don't know how you do on Step 1. Your school can see your USMLE results ONLY IF YOU ALLOW THEM. There's no way they can keep track of our results and they have no idea where we match. It's up to the students to compile this data.
Bottom line. There's a long tradition of success in Ireland. It's still a RISK to go and it's a huge financial burden. There are many hoops to jump through to return to North America and you must jump through them PERFECTLY. You will be stressed beyond belief for YEARS while you are there. If you can handle that, then go for it.
That's pretty bad if you ask me. Why the heck are they almost all FM/IM?! This makes me rethink going to Ireland. Even the caribbean gives me better chances at Anes/EM and other semi-competitive specialties!I'm just graduating now from UCC and can give the match results for our class.
18 North Americans in total class size of about 125
15 are Canadian
2 are American
1 is dual citizen
17 applied to match this year
1 chose to do intern year in Ireland for personal reasons
Both Americans applied only to US
1 matched to IM in Portland
1 matched to IM at Baystate (MA)
1 Canadian applied only to US and matched to IM SUNY Buffalo
Remaining 14 (including dual citizen) applied only to Canada:
1 has not matched by end of second round of CARMS
Others all matched:
FRCP Emergency Med Toronto
Lab Medicine Toronto
FM Northern Manitoba
FM Peace Liard (Northern BC)
FM MUN (x2)
I must be forgetting someone but that's about it. All but one matched and all to their first or second choice (under the circumstances... i.e. some trying to avoid return of service etc). Unmatched applicant still has scramble to try. That makes 1 or 2 genuinely unmatched candidates I know of (to US or Canada) at UCC in five years out of 100+ applicants. No worries!
Considering how long ago you graduated student.ie, are you not trying to refrain from making this type of uninformed comments?Exactly!
Ok, change my statement to FM or IM.You are definitely trolling now.
You ignore the fact you are more likely to match into a specialty than FM considering 3/4 schools matched exactly that. Only ~25% of UCD grads this year matched primary care which you seem to hate so much for some reason. This stat is "better" than EVERY American medical school.
Also, you state that you only care about American matches and Canadian match results are irrelevant but then you focus on these FM residencies which are ALL in Canada. How does that make your case regarding American opportunities?
I'm really not fixated on Canadian FM. I honestly could not care less about it.Since you are fixated on CANADIAN family medicine, you should learn about it. You're American so I give you some slack for not knowing the Canadian system but as mentioned earlier, FM in Canada is not necessarily primary care. Again, another fact you choose to ignore to make your misguided argument. There are GPs that do no clinic work at all. NONE. You are an anesthetist and there are GPs that do almost exactly what you do in Canada...not to the full extent of course. Also, as money is an important factor for some people, there are GPs doing primary care that make more than an anesthetist in the USA while working less hours. You don't believe so many people are interest in FM because you don't know what it is about.
My point exactly.HOWEVER, I think you are more likely to choose primary care coming out of Ireland. I don't think surgery is taught very well anywhere on this island so unless you have a good elective experience you'll probably not pursue it. Also, as most students are older and the road is so long and stressful, some people will choose the easier life and you can't fault someone for that just like you can't judge someone who match into plastics for the money and prestige. Also, I think there are some people who won't pursue more competitive residencies out of fear of not matching. You ARE at a disadvantage as an IMG. Everyone must remember this. I'm sure there are students in US and Canada that do this too. Just my opinion.
I specifically stated that FM is a fine career. I didn't say NO ONE could ever choose it. I don't understand why people have such difficulty understanding that just because you may be the exception doesn't disprove that many other people are choosing it through the process of elimination. While I personally can't stand primary care, I said nothing negative about it's practice for other people. The only reason it looks bad to have so many people doing FM&IM is that it is suspicious that many of them (not all) did so because they couldn't get their actual top choice. That or the lack of significant elective time prevented them from ever trying out what might have been their favorite specialties.I love this. Some things (and people=student.ie) never change. I suppose the problem is that 98% of the griping on SDN is based on speculation versus knowledge. So in that light, I can only comment on my own interests. Indeed I might be one of those desperate people who grasped at FM as my only option simply because I couldn't get the job as a garbage collector. But I'm not. In fact, I openly and affirmatively chose (yes, CHOSE) FM and would have no matter what school i went to. In Canada, I as a GP I might want to do some EM, maybe even full-time for a while. Check. I want to live in Vancouver for a while and maybe later live in a smaller community. Check. I might want to change my mind and focus on sports medicine later. Or anesthesia. Check.
Student.ie, I really hope I never have the misfortune of meeting you in a clinical setting. You make me cringe. Believe it or not and thankfully), there are many people who actually believe in and aspire to primary care. Woe to you should we all evaporate and leave you in the void. However much you might know about your own specialty (anesthesia?), I hope you can find a niche wherein you don't even have to be bothered by any patient contact. Crawl back into your cave and indulge in some propofol. Then you won't have to deal with all of us snivelling primary care types.
Alrighty so here's a VERY prelim match list...it's incomplete, and the locations are probably inaccurate...but it's a start. I have no idea where RCSI peeps matched in the US.
Bottom line: don't try to figure out which school is "best". In the end, it's the candidate that makes the difference.
Preliminary match list - 2010
U of T - ortho
U of T - gen surg
Mac - peds
Manitoba - psych
Dal - FM
IM - Boston
IM - Washington U (St. Louis)
IM - SUNY Downstate
Urology - U of T
Peds - queens
IM (3x) - U of T
Ortho - Winnipeg
Ortho - ???
Neurosurg - ???
Arb, congrats on being done Med/Surg...I'm going to go nurse my hangover now.
Thanks for the comprehensive list. Did most of these people complete electives/rotations in Canada? Was it at the location they matched? In the same field...or just close? (Eg matched to ortho but did elective in general surg?) On average, how many weeks did people spend in Canada? There are rumors circulating about a 12 week limit - did anyone get more than that?
Any help would be great.