The official rotation thread

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Bbed, Apr 9, 2014.

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  1. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    what are some of the job hookups you have seen?
     
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  3. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

    165
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    Feb 18, 2014
    has anyone ever did a VA rotation and got a job offer afterward? where do I start? who does the hiring? someone at that specific VA or a hiring manager?
     
  4. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

    733
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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Derailing the thread a bit to post my assigned rotations for next year (starting in May):

    (1) Pharmaceutical industry - pharmacovigilance
    (2) FDA hem/onc labeling
    (3) Off
    (4) Acute care/internal medicine - community teaching hospital affiliated with a major academic medical system
    (5) Off
    (6) Oncology - inpatient, federal hospital (not a VA)
    *Winter Break*
    (7&8) Ambulatory care - HIV and pediatrics primary care; community
    (9) Health systems - psychiatric hospital

    Goal: aiming for fellowships. Thoughts and feedback are welcome.


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  5. Jbrl

    Jbrl 2+ Year Member

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    May 7, 2015
    Nice schedule. Two cycles off (I wish). Aiming onco? Have you had previous pharma exp? Does the pharma company offer fellowships?
     
  6. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Aug 6, 2011
    Pharmacist
    How many APPE hours do your school's require you to get? I finish P4 year in May, but I'll post my schedule if anyone has any questions about similar rotations you may have coming up.

    June: Inpatient Hospital Staffing at a local community hospital.
    July: Community Pharmacy at an independent.
    August: Clinical Pharmacy Practice Management at a local community hospital
    September: Ambulatory Care - local clinic
    October: Heme/Onc at the VA
    November: Lab Based Oncology Research in a biology lab
    December: off
    January: Internal Medicine at a community hospital
    February: Inpatient Psychiatry at the VA
    March: Stem Cell Transplantation at an academic medical center
    April: A second ambulatory care rotation at another local clinic.
     
  7. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I'm tentatively interested in a few fields that I'm hoping to narrow down shortly: early clinical development, clinical operations, and clinical pharmacology. I have research experience from basic wet lab work to secondary data analysis and demographics research to PK/PD research. I also have some experience with industrial engineering with a very large company, which may (or may not) help with operations. Regarding disease states, I'm mostly interested in oncology and HIV/HCV, though I think I missed the wave for those antiviral products!

    I don't have previous pharma experience, only hospital experience. I got an internship offer last summer from Novartis, but I turned it down in favor for another internship. The Novartis internship was more IT/data systems/social media related. I chose the additional clinical and research experience with my internship at the VA. That may hurt me, but I've had extensive clinical experience that will benefit me going forward through my internship -- seeing pts independently and longitudinally in AC clinic, lipid clinic, and in the cardiac ICU.

    The pharma company that I'll be rotating with does not have fellowships.


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  8. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

    733
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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Great schedule! Our school requires that we complete 7 blocks of rotations that each last 5 weeks.

    40 hr/wk * 5 wk/block * 7 blocks = 1040 hr
    In addition we must complete a "pinnacle project" for an additional 40 hrs, thus 1080 hr of APPE.

    If I'm not mistaken, we complete 360 hr of IPPE for a total of 1440 experiential hours.


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  9. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Aug 6, 2011
    Pharmacist
    Yours doesn't look too bad either, I'm almost kinda jealous. We had to do 350 IPPE hours and a minimum of 1600 APPE (we usually wind up with ~1800). Our rotations are 10 one calendar month, 40hr+ per week with December being our month off. It kinda burns out really fast when you know your next "break" is months ahead and you don't get Spring/Thanksgiving or other holidays. However, I do feel that I've learned multitudes more this year than my 3 years of didactics. Make the most out of your rotations and take advantage of preceptors that want to teach you. You'll get a lot out of it. Are you interested in Onc? I am too so I had a few onc related rotations I put preferences in for (and luckily got). I noticed you have a few too.
     
  10. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

    733
    184
    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I am interested in oncology, but more from the pharmaceutical industry end of things. I'm hoping the FDA rotation will give me more exposure to the regulatory end of things, and the inpatient oncology rotation is at Walter Reed, which is just kind of cool.


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  11. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

    1,166
    654
    Aug 6, 2011
    Pharmacist
    I started out very interested in the clinical side, now I'm leaning more towards research and regulation (although I still like the clinical aspect a lot). Make some connections while on that FDA rotation. I wish I had the plan back then to try and sign up for one like that. I was lucky that I landed a spot in a research lab but having one at the FDA or NIH would be fantastic. Are you going to do a fellowship?
     
  12. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

    733
    184
    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    We'll see, I suppose, but that's the goal at the moment.


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  13. Jbrl

    Jbrl 2+ Year Member

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    May 7, 2015
    I don't think you'll be at a disadvantage. From the looks of it you have everything you need to articulate why you'd be a good fit for those 3 specialties. One question that you may have to answer is why fellowship vs. residency/academia, which you can address with your first cycle. For clin dev vs. ops vs. pharmacology, differences from what I've gathered (perhaps you know more) are foundational vs. executional vs. mechanistic. There's overlap but clin dev focuses on CRF/protocol development/writing and med data review while ops is about logistics of managing study sites and deliverables - planning, initiating, maintaining, closing - according to protocol and regulation. Pharmacology self-explanatory - PK/PD, dose escalation, POC testing, etc. Perhaps you can examine your strengths/weaknesses/personality to see what the best fit is from a skill/disposition standpoint. I'm guessing your rotation is at least somewhat related to those 3 specialties, but if not, doesn't really matter, as you can speak to people outside your dept. to get roped into projects if you convey your interest (under the initial guise of networking and learning about their work etc. etc.).

    1,440 here. We only have the possibility for one off-cycle.

    How was your SCT rotation?
     
  14. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Thanks for the wonderful reply and advice!

    I just need to make a decision. I'm hoping to reach out to individuals on rotation who have these roles to pick their brain.


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  15. student089

    student089 2+ Year Member

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    May 10, 2013
    I will start rotation in June-ish, I think. We only have 6 rotations :/. I wish to do more, but they won't allow it.
    block 1: off
    2: PBM
    3: IHS New Mexico ambulatory care
    4: hospital medical safety
    5: off
    6: VA-institutional rotation
    7: community pharmacy
    8: hospital clinical rotation
    I only have hospital and retail exp, not managed care and that's what I'm trying to get into.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
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  16. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    The PBM experience will be helpful, and hopefully at your hospital locations you can ask to get some P&T exposure.


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  17. Jbrl

    Jbrl 2+ Year Member

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    May 7, 2015
    Which site are you at? I have IHS cycle 3 also. :)
     
  18. student089

    student089 2+ Year Member

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    May 10, 2013
    I will be at Crownpoint.
     
  19. student089

    student089 2+ Year Member

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    May 10, 2013
    hope so. :)
     
  20. Jbrl

    Jbrl 2+ Year Member

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    May 7, 2015
    !!
     
  21. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Have you worked in the industry? Applying for residency/fellowship?
     
  22. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    184
    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Unfortunately I don't have experience in industry. And I do plan to apply for fellowships and residency in parallel. With the timeline of the fellowship application process, I will hopefully know whether or not I get an offer prior to accepting residency interviews. But it's all extremely competitive, so we'll see how things pan out.


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  23. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    how much are you expecting to earn as starting salary? is it worth the time and commitment?
     
  24. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I don't expect a fellowship salary to be much different than what you'd see in residency. But I do think it will pay off in the long run. There appears to be more room for career and salary growth in industry than in pharmacy practice. I think initial salaries after a fellowship tend to fall below what you would see in retail or hospital settings, but I'm not certain. I recommend asking someone more knowledgable than I am! I'm basing my information off of a handful of students/alumni at my school who pursued careers in industry.


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  25. yungnaira

    yungnaira 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 2, 2012
    FDA, Industry, Cigna, NCPA, Mirixa (MTM)

    Not sure what expect from the NCPA one

    Starting salary for fellowship is comparable to residency. Although fellowships are a completely different environment.

    I was advised to pursue a fellowship or residency BUT NOT BOTH
     
  26. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    if you are planning to do a hospital residency, what strategy should i use when selecting my rotation sites? choose acute care early?
     
  27. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Acute care early, an inpatient elective before midyear if at all possible.

    Shows initiative and planning ahead, and also allows for letters of recommendation based on your clinical knowledge.


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  28. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    yeah that is a good point...i hear industry pharmacists start around 90 k or so with opportunity to earn more in bonus.

    Anybody know industry pharmacist salary?
     
  29. pharmrx33

    pharmrx33

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    Apr 3, 2016
    My rotations are as follows:

    May- General Medicine at teaching hospital
    June- Amb Care at Family Practice site with my favorite faculty member.
    July- Hematology at academic medical center
    August- Admin at health system I currently work for
    September- Transplant at community hospital
    October- Cardiovascular ICU at academic medical center
    November- BMT at academic medical center
    December- OFF
    January- Neonatal ICU at pediatric hospital
    Feb.- OFF
    March- Community at Large Chain

    Goal: Residency and eventually critical care

    Let me know what you think? Too specific? Not general enough?
     
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  30. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    I think it looks great considering your goals.


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  31. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    how long is one rotation?
     
  32. hye345

    hye345 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 13, 2006
    Northern California
    Tomorrow is the last day of my last rotation: my (only) retail rotation at an independent pharmacy. This was actually one of my more challenging rotations: most of my experience (both in rotations and in internships) has been in hospital/inpatient setting, so it was a learning curve learning about insurance, counseling, etc... rotations like cardiology, acute care and psych were a cake walk compared to this one.
     
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  33. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Honestly, that's awesome.

    I fully believe everyone's job has challenging elements and we should respect and validate that. I'm impressed that you didn't blow off the retail rotation at face value and had this experience.

    I have zero retail experience, but I shudder when my coworkers belittle the concept. Being a great retail pharmacist may not help you much at our job, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't come with its own challenges and skill sets


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  34. dbarth101

    dbarth101 2+ Year Member

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    Jul 18, 2012
    One month.
     
  35. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    wow! 10 rotations? do people usually get this many rotations?
     
  36. BenJammin

    BenJammin No Apologies 5+ Year Member

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    Where my ex's live
    We had 9 month-long rotations. January to May, off June and July, then finish off with August to November.
     
  37. Rockinacoustic

    Rockinacoustic 7+ Year Member

    The first two rotations will have you set with experiences and hopefully projects to talk about for fellowship interviews. Your school has a good alumni pool of past and current fellows in industry (unfortunately not myself). Be sure to touch base with them before applications come due.
     
  38. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

    733
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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Thanks for the kind words. I'll be sure to reach out to alumni and other current or former fellows to get some help.


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  39. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    So 3 weeks per rotation? Is that enough time to learn?
     
  40. KatleyS

    KatleyS

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    May 6, 2016
    Rotations I remember offered at my university back in the day when I was a student: (FYI, I didn't do all of these, just what I remember)

    Drug Information - some Pharmacy journal (unique because it exposes you to the world of publishing)
    Indian Health Service - Amb Care
    VA - Amb Care
    Oncology/Transplant/Surgical - Community Hospital
    Infectious Disease/Internal Med/Pediatric ICU/Critical Care/Cardiology - Tertiary Care Hospital/Academic Medical Center
    Anticoagulation - (somewhere in Texas - I forget - you had to send an application)
    Diabetes Care - some Independent pharmacy
    Burn ICU - County Hospital
    Compounding - some independent pharmacy

    Of course, some of the above were purely elective. I think the most desirable one was the Indian Health Service because it also offered free housing at the site. I don't know if any site does that anymore in this day and age.

    I enjoyed the Indian Health Service one the most, but I didn't see myself working there because of how isolated the hospital was from everything. I liked the breadth of services they offered at the time which was epo injections, flu shots, diabetic counseling, medication counseling, etc. Also, I recall the staff were really warm and friendly so that made a difference.

    I probably learned the most in the Pediatric ICU but also felt like I really hated pharmacy at that time. It was a tough rotation.

    Our rotations were also 8 - 1 month long rotations with the option to do an extra rotation. Some people opted to do the extra.

    I probably received a residency advantage in matching because I rotated at one of the sites, so I guess you could say that one of my rotations led to a job offer?
     
  41. BenJammin

    BenJammin No Apologies 5+ Year Member

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    4 weeks and I thought so. It allowed me to get exposure to more types of pharmacy.
     
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  42. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Ours were 4 as well.

    I enjoyed that we had time for electives.

    6 weeks is too long (from preceptors perspective), maybe 5 weeks is the sweet spot.


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  43. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I think "the grass is always greener" applies. Our program does seven 5-week blocks, but we only get 3 electives with a max of 2 non-patient care electives. I'd love to have 4 or 5 electives.

    We're required to do the following:
    - 1 block acute care/internal medicine
    - 1 block health-systems
    - 1 block community
    - 1 block ambulatory care
    - 1 block advanced patient care elective
    - 2 blocks any elective

    My "any electives" are FDA and a med affairs industry rotation, and my advanced patient care elective is an inpatient medical oncology rotation. I'd love to be able to do an additional critical care or cardiology elective.


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  44. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Did your school let you off for spring break during your rotations?
     
  45. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Every school has its own schedule from 4 to 6 weeks. How do the perceptors coordinate this?
     
  46. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member


    Depends.

    We have a master schedule and just plug them in.

    After one failed experiment I no longer take mor than one trainee (resident +/- student) on rotation simultaneously. So if the spot is already blocked off, it's taken.


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  47. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Do preceptors usually get paid?
     
  48. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member


    Depends. Many of the newer schools pay the site for taking a student, but I don't know anyone who actually sees the money.

    Our department spends it mostly on educational materials to benefit the whole department.


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  49. msweph

    msweph 2+ Year Member

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    Ours puts it in a fund that pays for things like BCPS exams, resident awards, holiday party.
     
  50. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Just curious how much do preceptor gets pay per student?
     
  51. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member


    Depends.


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