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The official rotation thread

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Bbed, Apr 9, 2014.

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  1. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    on what factors? what is the price range? i am sure hospital rotation would be more expensive
     
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  3. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Not prt of my job. I don't believe it's negotiable, I believe it's set by the school. But each school pays differently.


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  4. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    I hear from several hundreds to a couple of thousands.
     
  5. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    damn so if a hospital takes 10 students x 2 k = 20 k? do it several times a year!
     
  6. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    My boss is telling me he is getting $400 per student. Community pharmacy
     
  7. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Do rotation sites give you time off to attend conferences? How far in advance should you ask them?
     
  8. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    I know of one person that had a preceptor that denied the time off, which I thought was kind of crazy/very dick like. I think usually it is not hard to get the time off though.
     
  9. stoichiometrist

    stoichiometrist 5+ Year Member

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    Some of them might ask you to make up the missed day(s) with additional projects. I haven't heard of anyone who would flat out deny the time off, though.
     
  10. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Most of the hospitals would be OK with it since they have other students but some places like independents that may be using their students just for labor and they may not be.
     
  11. jpborlag

    jpborlag 2+ Year Member

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    Jul 14, 2012
    Just saw this thread after checking SDN for the first time in quite a while, and now it applies to me. Schedule below:

    1. Amb Care at clinics affiliated with an academic medical center
    2. Infectious Diseases at an urban academic medical center
    3. Community at a specialty pharmacy
    4. Drug Info (Lexi-Comp)
    5. Critical Care at an academic medical center
    6. Off
    7. General Medicine (Basically acute care/internal med) at an academic medical center
    8. FDA (Regulatory Policy)
    9. Health systems/Institutional at a community hospital

    Goal: Likely residency (either ID or hem/onc). Still playing around with managed care as an option due to an awesome experience with an internship last summer. Any tips, particularly with the FDA rotation for anyone that's been previously?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
    y0ssarian87 likes this.
  12. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    ^ I heard the FDA rotation is way overrated.
     
  13. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I've heard many varying opinions, with most being positive. Keep in mind there are MANY preceptors in several different offices. I'm sure, as with other rotation sites, it's what you make of it.


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    giga and Precisely like this.
  14. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Fair enough. Anybody else did a rotation at the FDA? What is your opinion?
     
  15. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    Feel free to message me :)


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  16. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    is it difficult to get selected? don't you have to write an essay?
     
  17. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I actually couldn't tell you whether it's difficult to get selected or not. I do not have any data on that. But from what I have seen there, there are tons of preceptors and fourth-year students. I'd imagine it's fairly easy to get selected, but again I'm not certain.

    Yes, you have to write a one-pager on how a rotation at the FDA would facilitate your career goals as part of your application. The full list of application requirements can be found here: http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Working...PharmacyStudentExperientialProgramCDER/#apply


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    giga likes this.
  18. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Do you know how many students are accepted each year?
     
  19. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    i heard it is in the low to mid two digits.
     
  20. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I find that unlikely. From what I saw, there were at least 20 students on rotation at any time. If you multiply that by 7 blocks (just throwing it out there because that's what our school does), you get close to 140 students. From Univ. of Maryland alone, there are a double digit number of students who do the FDA rotation. There were students from all over at the FDA. I saw students from Purdue, Maryland, Temple, Florida A&M, USC, UCSF, UCSD, and many more.


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  21. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    How many apply per year?
     
  22. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I asked an FDA preceptor about this a while back and forgot to follow up. She said there are around 800 applicants and about 250 students accepted. I cannot independently verify however.


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  23. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Do you know if the fda rotation is open to every school?
     
  24. yungnaira

    yungnaira 5+ Year Member

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    fda rotation is available to anyone who wants to apply. it would be better if you had alumni there as they tend to select from their own school, but it's still possible to get one. apps are usually due in November of your p3 year so you have to know what you're interested in b4 applying. (maybe not so much, but if you want a good experience, do research on the different departments and offices)

    there are so many students at the fda at one time, for pharmacy it ranges from 10-12 students per slot x 9 slots = do the math

    dm if you have any other questions
     
    giga likes this.
  25. ldiot

    ldiot 2+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2015
    Miami, FL
    What do you guys actually do on the advanced hospital rotations? I just followed a tech around filling pyxis machines and sat with the pharmacist while he talked me through verification on my first rotation.

    The students on advanced rotations at the hospital I was at were doing patient rounds. I have no idea what they were even doing. What do they actually do when "rounding"? It seemed like the students were just free to walk around the hospital and do whatever the hell they wanted but I guess they were reporting back on patients or something... I have no idea.
     
  26. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    How did you like the fda rotation? I heard mixed reviews
     
  27. yungnaira

    yungnaira 5+ Year Member

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    Loved it! It really depends if you like the office setting. (cubicle or office space if you're lucky) I had a total of 5 projects I was working on and was left to my own devices to get them completed. Had to attend a few meetings, which were quite interesting if you ask me. For pharmacy students, they set it up where you (as a group) get to listen to other pharm.ds in their respective divisions/offices speak on their experiences. Field trips to the BOP, Coast Guard, NIH, USP, Pentagon. FDA = BEST ROTATION EVER

    Students dislike it for the lack of guidance, there were days I didn't see my preceptor. Sat in the office all day.. etc. Those people like calculating vancomycin doses and 270 Metformin pills every 10 prescriptions..
     
    y0ssarian87 likes this.
  28. yungnaira

    yungnaira 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 2, 2012
    For my internal medicine rotation, I focused on making sure patients were/are given appropriate orders based on lab values, charts, ets.. (((SOAP NOTES))) Made recommendations to the attending and MD residents when necessary. On rounds we rounded primarily with MD residents who have no idea what their doing. Changing orders left and right. On slow days, maybe a presentation or 2 on various disease states. I was based in a very undeserved location and did a great deal in psych, infectious disease..
     
  29. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    are we require to send them our grades? transcript?
     
  30. y0ssarian87

    y0ssarian87 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Rockville, MD
    Pharmacist
    I know I didn't send a transcript, but I can't remember if the application asked for GPA.


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  31. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    What? to the Pentagon for what?
     
  32. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    so you can lie?! LOL
     
  33. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    Anyone know if the fda will confirm your gpa?
     
  34. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    Not a sketchy question at all.
     
  35. lord999

    lord999 Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Having worked there (not voluntarily, thank their Informatics division for botching yet another one of their databases):
    Each major office may set a quota of acceptance. In various years, it's somewhere between 200 and 360. I've never seen the quota filled in any year.

    Depending on how you write your application, you may be randomly assigned to an office or your are fitted with one depending on your preferences. Those heading to graduate school are matched to specific offices. Rutgers applicants and other universities that have cozy relationships may request the Piscataway field office (or the applicable field office) rather than DC. The normal assignment is White Oak, but HQ or field office assignments are not unheard of.

    Grades really don't matter so long as they are passable. There is preferential treatment for underrepresented minorities and those that are already been part of the federal government and who are committed to them.

    There are common components where, yes, there are field trips, particularly for the ORA assigned group. CDER and CBER have less in that regard.

    If I were a pharmacy student:
    1. If I spoke Mandarin or Hindi, I would specifically volunteer for GROP and get to have some fun with our Chinese and Indian suppliers. There's a place for German speakers there as well. If you end up working for them, you may even end up going there. (Sorry, anime fans, the Japanese speaking pharmacists are still from my generation and have more or less gone native there.)
    2. If I were thinking about public health or policy or possibly working there as a pharmacist, I'd consider ORA or OPSA.
    3. If I were thinking about bench science graduate work, CBER and and NCTRO.
    4. If I had to do it all over again, I would request CMS over FDA, CMS and AHRQ are far more interesting in what they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

    One other matter, hope you remember that if you end up applying for the federal government, everything you send goes into the OPM system. Just saying in case you do want to work for us and you fill out an SF-85 or SF-86 in your future.

    Answering the question, no the FDA won't. There's bigger problems around the offices than verifying a short-term intern. If that intern's so stupid as to lie on a System of Record entered application, they will learn the consequences eventually enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  36. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    What!? Will they really ask and confirm your GPA when you apply for a government job? I thought grades don't matter.
     
  37. lord999

    lord999 Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Oh yeah, that's not an agency function, that's OPM and/or FBI if that function is deferred to them. I've had applications nixed by OPM (and with a specific rider that this person may never apply to any federal position ever again) over lying about:
    1. Grades and background
    2. Work experience (particularly if you were fired or separated under pressure)
    3. The circumstances which you divorced your spouse or whether or not you owe child support (if applicable)
    4. Illicit substance use (not that you did, but you didn't comment on it when you have a record for it, see other posts for we have generally no problem with past use so long as it's in the past)

    As I said before, it's very, very unlikely that we care about any of those 4 (even a past violent felony isn't bad enough) so long as you are clear and honest about what you put down. I've hired 2.01 GPA pharmacists because I care that their have "RPh" after their name if that's what it takes. I have hired a convicted felon and registered sex offender whose RPh was conditional on him not having patient contact (I had the perfect job for him where he doesn't leave the house and when he does have to report to the VA, his work office has no one else in it and he knows better than to walk around unescorted). Residencies can afford to be choosy now, but background for actual 0660 positions can only be around 30 pts, and that includes past experience at work and in a lower grade.

    That's the light version that is done with SF-85 and the SF-85P version. The SF-85P ends up with serious people in suits calling or even physically visiting who you named on your contacts to verify as well as personally interview you. The heavier SF-86 (for uniformed or for positions where the government bothers to care about who is in it) may include a polygraph depending on if the investigating officer trusts you or not (and the normal position is not).

    The vast majority of pharmacists in the fed get the SF-85 and are young enough that they don't end up needing extensive treatment, so VA and HHS practicing pharmacists are in this category and it gets renewed every 15 years. But all GS-14 and higher positions get at least the SF-85P and some with the SF-86 for particularly interesting work (FDA uses SF-86 on their serious staff) which you go through that again every 5.

    And what am I stunned about when I review my own case file (you are allowed to after the background investigation) is just the amount of transcripts from conversations that the investigators have with the people on your contacts list and even my high school back in the day. It makes you reflect on who are your real friends, and what is your public persona.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  38. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    So do they ask for your school transcript? That is the only way to verify your grades right? If they don't, then I am sure you can put whatever GPA you want LOL
     
  39. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I don't think they do just as long as you have a degree. That is what they care for.
     
  40. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    OK, I just confirmed with a friend who works for the government. No, you don't need to send them your transcript...just your degree is sufficient.
     
  41. 2013pharmer

    2013pharmer 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 20, 2014
    C students = Pharm.D too right? lol
     
  42. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    yeah perhaps but I wouldn't screw around tho....rotations are like a 6 week interview. I got my current job from my rotation.
     
  43. Oink

    Oink 5+ Year Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    For those who got job offers from their rotation, how did the job offer get brought up? Were you talking about jobs and then your preceptor said you can work there? Did you tell your preceptor you were interested in working there? Or were your preceptor just that impressed and wanted to hire you?

    I always hear that rotations are one long interview and the rotations I chose are fields that I am interested in. I'm always trying to be proactive and asking the preceptor and the staff of any project or presentation I can work on. I really like my current rotation, but the pharmacy I'm at just recently hired a full time pharmacist recently so I'm afraid they're not looking to hire anyone in the near future.
     
  44. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I just did a job and they asked me if I am interested. It is not just about doing a good job but also whether they like you and get along with you.
     
    LandyPharmD likes this.
  45. LandyPharmD

    LandyPharmD 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2014
    Did anyone have Pharmaceutical Industry rotations and if so where? I am preparing for rotations next year and would like to find some willing companies to set up contracts with my school? If you all have any suggestions in the Tri-state are I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
     
  46. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Honestly...there are not many industry sites. You would have a hard time finding these sites unless your coordinator know them.
     
  47. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    I just thought of something...does your school pay for sites? That is a great way to get your foot inside the door. Also look up for industry fellowship sites. If they have a fellowship then I am sure they will also take rotation students.
     
    LandyPharmD likes this.
  48. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    just food for thoughts...even if they currently don't have a position open, it is always important to make a lasting impression and to keep in contact with your preceptors.

    A preceptor just contacted me and told me there is a position open at her place. I worked my butt off when I was there even tho I know they were not hiring. I am sure the pharmacy staff remembered that.
     
    njac likes this.
  49. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    I've been emailing old students about a job at our place.

    We also go back through our list of residency candidates and let the ones who didn't match with us know about jobs as well.


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    y0ssarian87 likes this.
  50. Bbed

    Bbed 2+ Year Member

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Did any of them get the job thru you?
     
  51. njac

    njac Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    We're actively working on bringing one in now after they finish their pgy-2 in June.


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