The optimal number of schools to apply to

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How many schools did you apply to?


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BTC0821

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Hi everyone, so I've seen from different threads a few posts saying to apply to 20 or so schools but I wasn't so sure as to why that is the best number to apply to. I have created a list of schools that I would be happy going to (MD/DO) and I have around 30 or so schools that I would be interested in applying to. By applying to more than 20 schools, wouldn't one have a greater chance of success than if they were to apply to 20 schools? Is it only due to the cost of the applying to a large number of schools or is it more because of the number of secondaries one would have to fill out? Any help on figuring out how to put this all together would be greatly appreciated. I'd rate myself as a pretty average applicant and so I'm really looking to do whatever I can to make an acceptance by this time next year as likely as possible.

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20-30 seems optimal, in that you can apply to a broad range of schools but will still have time to individualize your secondary essays.
 
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By applying to more than 20 schools, wouldn't one have a greater chance of success than if they were to apply to 20 schools?
Theoretically, this is true. But, for most applicants, your school list is going to be a balance between maximizing your chances (adding more schools), minimizing your cost (adding fewer schools), and maintaining the quality of your secondaries (fewer schools and/or prewriting secondaries). This is going to be a different balance for every applicant. If money is not an issue and you don't mind prewriting 50 secondaries, then there is no downside to applying to as many schools (as long as you do not compromise the quality of your essays).
 
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Most people that I know applied to around 15 schools. Ultimately it depends on you, your application’s strength, and how much time/money you have to put into applications/interviews.
 
This is also heavily dependent upon your state of residence. Texas residents probably don't need to apply to as many as CA residents do
 
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20-30 seems optimal, in that you can apply to a broad range of schools but will still have time to individualize your secondary essays.
I agree. Keep in mind that many SDNers badly underestimate the amount of time it takes to fill out all those secondaries, and the physical toll it take son your stamina.

Also, more apps =/= better chances. Applying to med school is not like taking free throws.
 
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I've read a lot about secondary essays, but not a lot about what else is involved in completing a secondary application. Outside of the essays, is the rest of the secondary application a big effort at most schools or mostly boilerplate/biographical information?
 
I agree. Keep in mind that many SDNers badly underestimate the amount of time it takes to fill out all those secondaries, and the physical toll it take son your stamina.

Also, more apps =/= better chances. Applying to med school is not like taking free throws.

Tell me about it. I planned on applying to 25 MD and 8 DO. Did the MD first, ended up wasting like $200 by being too burnt out to finish the last 4 DO secondaries.

AACOMAS also screwed up with my MCAT score, so I almost applied to 0 DO schools.
 
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How long does it generally take to properly fill out a secondary then? I suppose I hadn't really considered that aspect
 
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How long does it generally take to properly fill out a secondary then? I suppose I hadn't really considered that aspect
Actually filling out the secondary application: 30 minutes.

Writing the secondary: Literally forever.

I've spent a whole day brainstorming, writing, and perfecting just one secondary essay.

Between my 25 MD schools and the DO schools I applied to, I had over 70 secondary essays.

Some of them are a bit transferable, but you'll want to personalize most of them.

I'd say on average, I probably spent a minimum of 3 hours per essay or about 9 hours a day for 3 weeks (I took sunday off from writing).
 
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I applied to 10 MD schools, and I was burned out after writing the secondary essays (especially Vanderbilt - that dang autobiography nearly killed me). The thing is, until the application cycle is over, you won't know how strong your application was. If I had known beforehand that I'd get 7 IIs, I'd have saved my money and only applied to maybe 3 schools. But hindsight is 20/20, and if I'd gotten 0 IIs, I'd wish I had applied to 20 or 25 schools instead of just 10. I think I've read that the average applicant applies to 14 schools.

I think crafting an appropriate school list is more important that applying to a bunch of schools. Look at schools where your GPA and MCAT are around the school's median and where their mission aligns with your ECs and personal statement. If there are 50 schools like that, pick the ones in the locations you like best. If there are only 5, widen your GPA/MCAT parameters to include those where you fall between the 25th and 75 percentiles.
 
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Do not underestimate the importance of "fit" and showing it in your secondary. After having successfully gone through the cycle, I feel like there is more legitimacy to the whole process than I initially thought. I say this because, even though n=1, after applying and being complete at fifteen schools, there were two specific schools that I felt were a great fit. Somehow, among thousands of applications, those exact two schools were the only ones I interviewed at.

Considering there are so many applications to be reviewed, it felt like a real possibility that the primary is evaluated fairly quickly to assess for baseline threshold metrics, extracurricular activities, and personal statement and as long as the primary baseline review looks okay, the secondary is reviewed in detail to check for individual fit with the program; which at that point, if you are a clear fit, you receive an interview. I have no clue if this is true, but I definitely do not think it is coincidental that I received interviews at the exact programs I felt were a clear fit. The secondary essays are extremely important, do not rush them. Do your research on the programs and make sure you are able to show with words how you are a great fit for each specific program you are interested in.

Also, do not apply DO if you would not be happy attending a DO school if you do not get into an MD program. If you search the forums, you will see there are a lot of people who applied DO and got accepted, but were not accepted to MD (which was what they really desired) and are now faced with a very difficult decision that will stick with them for their entire career. Take the long view, if MD is what you desire (for whatever reasons), and you know DO is not what you want to do, then only apply MD but understand it is very competitive and might take a few cycles to get admitted. Good luck!
 
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Warning: opinion ahead!

I made a school list that was narrow (6 total) and targeted and it worked out. I wouldn’t recommend going this low, but I would ABSOLUTELY recommend being smart with your school list selection.

That means figuring out using MSAR and SDN which schools you are competitive for based on GPA, MCAT, state of residence, mission, and extracurriculars.

Aim for a list of 15 schools that you think are mathematically the best chance for you based on these factors. Add or subtract schools based on your overall competitiveness, but be realistic about it. If your LizzyM is 74, you have absolutely no reason to apply to 25 schools. Over-applying will cost you time and money and there comes a point for each applicant where adding another school doesn’t increase chances of acceptance.
 
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I've read a lot about secondary essays, but not a lot about what else is involved in completing a secondary application. Outside of the essays, is the rest of the secondary application a big effort at most schools or mostly boilerplate/biographical information?
The non-essay stuff doesn't usually take a lot of hard thinking, but it can take time. There can be hidden essays/short answer questions + you often have to enter info for all of the prereqs for that particular school + re-categorize and re-summarize your AMCAS activities + the bio info + assigning LoRs (if you haven't already) + paying the fees. Some go faster than others. Do some pre-writing for your top choice schools if you can: Medical School Secondary Essay Prompts Database - Prospective Doctor

It's true that you should look for "fit" and aim to make your school list as focused as possible. Then again, adcoms are people too! You never know what's going to catch someone's eye, especially if you are a middle-of-the-pack applicant. I had one EC that I thought for sure would get me more attention than it did, but it would have been impossible to predict who would think it was lame and who would think it was cool. In that sense, applying broadly can help.
 
Be sure to find and read the thread with the WedgeDawg Applicant Rating System. (This might take you there if I did it right) It's not perfect, but it's about the best tool I've seen. That will give you a good indication of your relative strength as an applicant.

WedgeDawg's Applicant Rating System (Updated Jan 2017)

Also, DO take the advice about 'fit' seriously and apply that advice up front. It's really easy to keep adding schools to your application list, but after 10 secondaries, it's also really easy to see where your application fees were wasted. In fact, if you can force yourself to read the school-specific threads and draft the "Why This School?" essay for each school before you even apply, that would be a great way to focus your efforts and maximize your returns. You'll have to do it anyway and it's so worth it if it saves you from a few poor decisions (Loma Linda for the non-religious, state schools with restrictive admissions, schools that receive 20,000 applications if you're not unique, schools with >$80,000 cost of attendance if you're not wealthy and schools with special missions that aren't your [demonstrated] special missions...)

Also consider whether you want and are a better applicant for schools with a research focus (great if you're a 3.9 GPA, 515+ applicant), a clinical or primary care focus (will look more at your ECs -- you excel here, right?) or a special focus on a certain type of care.

Above all, do not apply to any school you would genuinely not want to attend if that were your only acceptance.
 
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Some of them are a bit transferable, but you'll want to personalize most of them.
Agreed. I was actually pretty surprised at how easily I was able to tell who just copied and pasted and who actually wrote an answer appropriate to the questions. The differences were subtle, but definitely detectable.
 
Agreed. I was actually pretty surprised at how easily I was able to tell who just copied and pasted and who actually wrote an answer appropriate to the questions. The differences were subtle, but definitely detectable.
What differences did you detect and how were you able to confirm your suspicions?
 
What differences did you detect and how were you able to confirm your suspicions?
Ahh, yes, there was no way to confirm my suspicions. Obviously I didn't read a candidate's secondary answers to other schools nor did I ever ask "so did you just copy and paste?" It was a gut feeling combined with a light bulb moment of "is this how it looked when I copied and pasted my secondaries?" I did tailor my secondaries, but I also did a lot of copy and pasting.

The things that stood out to me were when candidates never mentioned the school by name in their answers nor were specific to our school's mission and things of that nature. Some of them outright just did not fit with the question. The answers weren't necessarily wrong per se, but it was like seeing someone with a powder blue tux at a very formal event. Yeah, they're technically wearing formal wear, but it just doesn't look right.
 
What about DO only cycles? There are so few DO programs, and since they have larger class sizes and a broader geographic range how many do DO only applicants do? ( I'm legit curious)
 
What about DO only cycles? There are so few DO programs, and since they have larger class sizes and a broader geographic range how many do DO only applicants do? ( I'm legit curious)

I can tell you about my brother's experience, (although he applied with grade forgiveness).

I believe he had a 3.58 with grade forgiveness (3.0 without) and an original MCAT of 31 (Expired), retake later for a 521 MCAT. He applied to 17 DO schools, received 8 interviews, attended 3 (Took MCAT in July or August, I forget, so may have factored into his number of IIs).

I think he applied to an above average number of programs. Most of the people I know who apply DO only apply to about 10-15.
 
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I can tell you about my brother's experience, (although he applied with grade forgiveness).

I believe he had a 3.58 with grade forgiveness (3.0 without) and an original MCAT of 31 (Expired), retake later for a 521 MCAT. He applied to 17 DO schools, received 8 interviews, attended 3 (Took MCAT in July or August, I forget, so may have factored into his number of IIs).

I think he applied to an above average number of programs. Most of the people I know who apply DO only apply to about 10-15.
How many acceptances?
 
My undergrad suggested applying to ~15 schools and in addition, this seemed to be the status quo at that time (a few years ago). Just from reading SDN and seeing the experiences of some SDN posters as well as RL friends, I think the number today should be ~25 applications. The application process seems to be so competitive now that maximizing your chances through a larger number of applications should be a given. 25 secondaries should not be too difficult to complete especially if you are completing them as they are received. They certainly do still get tedious, but they are doable.

I know it is specifically mentioned above that more apps do not equate to higher chances, however, I disagree with this opinion. Gaining an interview is based on a review of your app by an admissions committee member (member(s)?). The more apps submitted, the more reviews of your app, and IMHO, the higher the chances for someone to like the app and at least give you a shot through an interview. So, while more apps does not necessarily mean higher chances, it certainly may help. If money and time isn't an issue, and you are a relatively good writer, I'd say the more secondaries you can handle, the merrier.

I do know of some applicants who applied to 40+ but honestly, that I couldn't do. I completed 24 secondaries and I was burnt after even that many.
 
Above all, do not apply to any school you would genuinely not want to attend if that were your only acceptance.

this is great advice; do not set yourself up to be forced to make a sub-optimal decision.
 
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