The Ultimate 2020 Election / Politics / General News Thread

[Guillemot]

Someone post some links about how funding social support stuff is fiscally responsible because it helps produce productive members of society.

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[BLADEMDA]

The Family structure was destroyed by the LEFT and until the Progressives realize that structure is vital to society we won't do a darn thing about it. Instead, AOC and Pelosi will pass more trillions in spending that we don't have to give the appearance that change is on the way. This is despite the fact that spending more money won't impact the issue in many communities.

The U.S. Currency is in trouble. Modern monetary theory has you believe that borrowing trillions more in debt won't affect your way of life. That is a lie. The U.S. dollar will its reserve status and then be devalued by 20-30%. This is the real price we will all pay for reckless spending.

View attachment 311354

So, was there a plan in here somewhere for family structures or just random complaining about AOC and a non-sequitur segue to the national debt which has blown up under trump and a republican congress?
[/QUOTE]

I won't discuss my plan on this forum. I prefer to avoid name-calling and ad-hominem attacks. I will say that any plan to actually address inner city communities of color must come from the left and be bi-partisan. At this point, the left isn't ready to admit that these issues are due to a lack of a father but rather due to lack of economic and educational opportunities (despite the past 50 years).

 

[BLADEMDA]

Someone post some links about how funding social support stuff is fiscally responsible because it helps produce productive members of society.

We will keep funding social programs. In fact, I expect at least a trillion more in spending during the Biden term on social programs. 2 Trillion for the New Green Deal. As you all have seen the BUDGET no longer matters and by the end of Biden's second term we will be 40 trillion in debt.

But, at the end of those 8 years and 8 trillion more in social programs nothing will have changed for those living in the inner cities. The poor will still be poor and those without fathers will commit crimes and end up in jail.

Perhaps, a few hundred thousand white middle class families will get college tuition relief and the priced of a gallon of gas will be over $5.00 (carbon tax).
The price of these "progressive" policies will be a stagnant economy and loss of purchasing power. Without businesses to grow the economy unemployment will remain at 7% with minority communities hit the hardest.

Nobody seems to care what type of country we are leaving behind with this massive explosion of socialism. Vector 2 would have you believe it will be a better place. I think history will show something very different.

 

[vector2]

So, was there a plan in here somewhere for family structures or just random complaining about AOC and a non-sequitur segue to the national debt which has blown up under trump and a republican congress?

I won't discuss my plan on this forum. I prefer to avoid name-calling and ad-hominem attacks. I will say that any plan to actually address inner city communities of color must come from the left and be bi-partisan. At this point, the left isn't ready to admit that these issues are due to a lack of a father but rather due to lack of economic and educational opportunities (despite the past 50 years).
[/QUOTE]

No one is arguing that single parenting in poverty isn’t bad. But thinking that lack of economic or educational opportunity has nothing to do with it is hilarious for anyone who’s seen the income and public school gap between the richest and poorest zip codes.

 

[anbuitachi]

MMT not gonna work if other countries dont support it. they will back away from USD and support china instead. like blade said, once we lose our reserve currency status, US is screwed

 

[anbuitachi]

I won't discuss my plan on this forum. I prefer to avoid name-calling and ad-hominem attacks. I will say that any plan to actually address inner city communities of color must come from the left and be bi-partisan. At this point, the left isn't ready to admit that these issues are due to a lack of a father but rather due to lack of economic and educational opportunities (despite the past 50 years).

No one is arguing that single parenting in poverty isn’t bad. But thinking that lack of economic or educational opportunity has nothing to do with it is hilarious for anyone who’s seen the income and public school gap between the richest and poorest zip codes.
[/QUOTE]

it matters but i lost hope a long time ago. 20 years ago when i was in school, and i saw the teacher teaching, while kids are just talking to each other not giving a crap about anything, it made me lose hope. many kids have PLENTY of opportunity, they just dont use it, AT ALL. school time goes to waste, the teacher feels hopeless, the students who want to pay attention cant because of all the noise. and at the end of the year, the teacher gets all the blame. not sure how the system can survive like this. then we got a new teacher who called students out for talking/not paying attention and guess what, students complained about him for being strict and he broke down in class.

and i apparently went to an above average school.. i hear its even worse today..

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Don't reward bad behavior. That is one solution.

I am just spitballing, but how about father's who don't provide for their child get drafted to the military. Then part of paycheck gets sent to their child and the mother.

I assume this will be seen as wrong, but providing someone with a means to provide for their offspring seems fairly compassionate and could help the problem.

 

[vector2]

I won't discuss my plan on this forum. I prefer to avoid name-calling and ad-hominem attacks.

Don’t worry, we already know that the plan is banning abortion, banning gay marriage, and doing away with Medicare/Medicaid/chip etc. And what you prefer to avoid is having to answer how doing any of that will return us to the pre-1960s prevailing family structure whose downfall you think is the cause of all societal ills.

 

[anbuitachi]

Don't reward bad behavior. That is one solution.

I am just spitballing, but how about father's who don't provide for their child get drafted to the military. Then part of paycheck gets sent to their child and the mother.

I assume this will be seen as wrong, but providing someone with a means to provide for their offspring seems fairly compassionate and could help the problem.

yea, no one will support that. we cant even get people to wear masks. no chance we get ppl to forcefully join the military to help the child... america is all about that 'freedom'

problem of our society is our government is weak. people have a lot of power, which is fine when the people are well educated and informed. but it gets ugly pretty quickly when people who are not informed or well educated are the ones making the decisions.

i saw a video recently comparing china's government system vs USA. aside from all the communism vs democracy crap, one huge difference is joining high government positions in china requires merit. needs to be very well educated, and near top of class. here, anyone can be voted to a government position. if someday 60% of the population have IQs <80, would our system even work

 

[nimbus]

If you truly want to solve the problem then don't reward behavior which promotes single parents who depend on government for survival.

We finally agree. I’m all for contraception, safe and legal abortions and gay rights.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

yea, no one will support that. we cant even get people to wear masks. no chance we get ppl to forcefully join the military to help the child... america is all about that 'freedom'

I agree. Sad. Accountability is missing across the board and very important. We need to pound that drum more.

We worry about the father's freedom, but not the kid's freedom. We worry about the mom's choice, but not the kid's choice.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

We finally agree. I’m all for contraception, safe and legal abortions and gay rights.

Good to find that people can agree. That is a start.

I find it amusing that contraception and gay rights are the big issues that is holding this country back. I think it is easy to get sidetracked b/c washington doesn't want us to see how poorly they are handling the bigger issues. Speaking of, is getting contraception that hard? I don't see too many people trying to limit gay rights (different story for gender). I would pretty much cede the contraception and gay rights, just to get my way on the bigger issues.

 

[vector2]

Good to find that people can agree. That is a start.

I find it amusing that contraception and gay rights are the big issues that is holding this country back. I think it is easy to get sidetracked b/c washington doesn't want us to see how poorly they are handling the bigger issues. Speaking of, is getting contraception that hard? I don't see too many people trying to limit gay rights (different story for gender). I would pretty much cede the contraception and gay rights, just to get my way on the bigger issues.

You don’t see too many people limiting gay rights because a vicious 30 year battle was fought that was finally (mostly) ended in the Supreme Court this decade. And I say mostly cause it was literally just this month scotus said you can’t be fired for being gay

Opinion | Gay Rights Are Civil Rights (Published 2020)

The Supreme Court says you can’t be fired for being gay or transgender.

www.nytimes.com

 

[crash2500]

Here are 2 liberal Democrats who have decided that the Mob isn't going to damage their property. This is what will happen if you defund the police.
I still doubt they will be voting for Trump this November.

View attachment 311338
"A mob of at least 100 smashed through the historic wrought iron gates of Portland Place, destroying them, rushed towards my home where my family was having dinner outside and put us in fear of our lives,” Mark McCloskey told the TV station.

This post is so far out of context...

 

[BLADEMDA]

You don’t see too many people limiting gay rights because a vicious 30 year battle was fought that was finally (mostly) ended in the Supreme Court this decade. And I say mostly cause it was literally just this month scotus said you can’t be fired for being gay

Opinion | Gay Rights Are Civil Rights (Published 2020)

The Supreme Court says you can’t be fired for being gay or transgender.

www.nytimes.com

FYI, my very conservative friends were not upset about the recent ruling regarding homosexuals. But, the transgender decision really irked them because they see transgender as an entirely different issue.

 

[ambiturner]

i saw a video recently comparing china's government system vs USA. aside from all the communism vs democracy crap, one huge difference is joining high government positions in china requires merit. needs to be very well educated, and near top of the class.

We actually tried that here before, with less than stellar results: The Best and the Brightest - Wikipedia

This thread took a sharp turn since we were talking about taxes, but regarding SALT I agree that it would give all of us eastern blue staters/Californians more money in our pockets, but it will have to be offset by something else that takes money out. SALT coming back will be seen politically as a handout to rich blue staters (which we are both considered) as the vast majority of the SALT deductions are made by rich people in those states that itemize. A progressive platform run by two democratic houses and the presidency is going to cost big bucks and and they will just take it from somewhere else. It will also kick the can down the road for the pension crisis and give NY, CA etc an excuse not to reckon with overspending as people will flee at a slower rate when the difference in their paycheck in NY vs Texas shrinks.

 

[vector2]

FYI, my very conservative friends were not upset about the recent ruling regarding homosexuals. But, the transgender decision really irked them because they see transgender as an entirely different issue.

They’re not upset because most have realized there’s no significant cultural backstop left to support the virulent homophobia with which they would’ve approached these issues 15 years ago. That, and many finally realized that gay people are not some shadowy “other” but are in fact their neighbors, coworkers, relatives, sons, and daughters.

 

[pgg]

I am just spitballing, but how about father's who don't provide for their child get drafted to the military.

That's idiotic.

The military isn't a "jobs program". We exist in order to provide a "kill people and break things" option to supplement our leaders' diplomacy.

Why on earth do you think we want those dirtbags? The military isn't a dumping ground for worthless and incompetent people.

 

[pgg]

It's shocking to me that dems and repubs "switching" as far as race relations isn't common knowledge to the point that even asking about the switch isn't ridiculous.

Willful cognitive dissonance is the only explanation I can come up with.

 

[pgg]

I would pretty much cede the contraception and gay rights, just to get my way on the bigger issues.

There are no bigger issues than civil rights. Full stop.

 

[Southpaw]

I am not talking about party lines here. I am talking about ones view of life and freedom. There were many abolitionists at the time who "broke the law" because of their view of slavery as a moral "sin." Today, there are more than a few from both parties who view "abortion" as the taking of a life. Rather than look at this as Democrat vs Republican I urge one to view it from a different perspective. If Black Lives Matter, and they do of course, then the killing of black babies in utero is the most abhorrent racist practice our time.

Yes, those abolitionists were dubbed ‘The North’.

 

[DocMcCoy]

That's idiotic.

The military isn't a "jobs program". We exist in order to provide a "kill people and break things" option to supplement our leaders' diplomacy.

Why on earth do you think we want those dirtbags? The military isn't a dumping ground for worthless and incompetent people.

I think that sentiment is left over (wrongly) from the pre all volunteer military “go to war or go to jail”. BS.

But conscription was a thing. Marginalized populations were at risk. Not a lot of deferments granted to the inner city poor with no means to higher education.

Even in the all volunteer military, marginalized are targeted for service. There is some truth to the “poverty draft”.

I agree the military isn’t a dumping ground. But they aren’t exactly targeting and recruiting the best and the brightest for enlistment. More so those with fewer options and opportunities. It can be a great option for some though.

I think it is interesting that someone would suggest the above posted solution and I’m sure they aren’t alone. I think it says a lot about the ever present negative connotation, however slight, that is self perpetuated by the military and exists today. Not so much idiotic, but ignorant and biased.

 

[vector2]

From pandering to Putin to abusing allies and ignoring his own advisers, Trump's phone calls alarm US officials

In hundreds of highly classified phone calls with foreign heads of state, President Donald Trump was so consistently unprepared for discussion of serious issues, so often outplayed in his conversations with powerful leaders like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep...

amp.cnn.com

 

[BLADEMDA]

There are no bigger issues than civil rights. Full stop.

Let's say you run a religious school. In this case the school is teaching Islam to young people. A teacher at the school announces he wants to become a she and maintain the position. The leaders of the school decide to fire that teacher following the sex change operation. Is the firing legal under the Roberts' Court? Has the government imposed its will on this school?

I absolutely believe in civil rights but I firmly believe that private businesses have the right to decide who they want to hire as well. This is why the Roberts' decision is so divisive in the conservative community.

 

[BLADEMDA]

“I’m going to get rid of the bulk of Trump’s $2 trillion tax cut,” Biden continued, “and a lot of you may not like that but I’m going to close loopholes like capital gains and stepped up basis.”

Biden also said he would raise the corporate tax rate to 28%, which he said would raise an estimated $1.3 trillion over the next decade. The Trump tax cuts had shrunk corporate taxes to 21% from 35%.

This may result in higher levels of unemployment and of course, higher taxes for many of you on this Board. Biden plans on raising FICA taxes on everyone making more than $400,000 and increasing the federal tax rates as well. This will be a significant increase in taxes on all those earning $400-$600,000.
Have any of you looked at his proposals? You may be surprised just how much more you will be paying in taxes.

I doubt any of this money is used to pay down the debt either. Instead, it will all be spent on social programs which means the vast majority of the money will be squandered.

 

[nimbus]

“I’m going to get rid of the bulk of Trump’s $2 trillion tax cut,” Biden continued, “and a lot of you may not like that but I’m going to close loopholes like capital gains and stepped up basis.”

Biden also said he would raise the corporate tax rate to 28%, which he said would raise an estimated $1.3 trillion over the next decade. The Trump tax cuts had shrunk corporate taxes to 21% from 35%.

This may result in higher levels of unemployment and of course, higher taxes for many of you on this Board. Biden plans on raising FICA taxes on everyone making more than $400,000 and increasing the federal tax rates as well. This will be a significant increase in taxes on all those earning $400-$600,000.
Have any of you looked at his proposals? You may be surprised just how much more you will be paying in taxes.

I doubt any of this money is used to pay down the debt either. Instead, it will all be spent on social programs which means the vast majority of the money will be squandered.

Most of us on this board have more than enough money. I’m happy to pay more taxes if it means getting rid of Trump. It’s worth it.

 

[vector2]

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Most of us on this board have more than enough money. I’m happy to pay more taxes if it means getting rid of Trump. It’s worth it.

I mean yes, but. I think raising corporate taxes to a middle ground between pre-Trump and now is very reasonable. Definitely need to do something about capital gains (while making sure retirement accounts aren't included in that). You could even convince me that upping FICA is worth doing, although I'd prefer just raising the maximum a bit. Its 137k now, why not just go up to say 175k or something.

But if you're going to do all of that, I'm not sure increasing the federal income tax rates as well is really necessary.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

That's idiotic.

The military isn't a "jobs program". We exist in order to provide a "kill people and break things" option to supplement our leaders' diplomacy.

Why on earth do you think we want those dirtbags? The military isn't a dumping ground for worthless and incompetent people.

That's nice.

I don't actually look at it that way. I think the military creates skill and discipline that can be used many ways and build life skills and a career. Especially with younger adults that haven't had good leadership. I see value in these people and think with guidance that they wouldn't be "worthless and incompetent". I'm not even saying they are worthless now. I think you would be surprised what some of these people could achieve and actually succeed.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

There are no bigger issues than civil rights. Full stop.

You aren't even trying to listen to the point I'm making. And you did the whole bait and switch. I mention contraception and gay rights (your example of not getting fired) and you jump to all of civil rights. There are rights within civil rights. Right to live, to vote, etc. If the right to live is not more important than a job, then we agree to disagree.

You are kinda all over the map with your respect of rights and then attacking people.

 

[nimbus]

Since there’s a lot of discussion about corporate taxes and social programs. The link shows where the money comes from and where it goes. Corporate taxes are at a 20 year low. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense dwarf all other spending. Doctors and soldiers are sitting pretty.

The Federal Budget in 2019: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office

The federal deficit in 2019 was $984 billion, equal to 4.6 percent of gross domestic product. Learn more about the deficit with a new interactive version of the infographic.

www.cbo.gov

 

[BLADEMDA]

Since there’s a lot of discussion about corporate taxes and social programs. The link shows where the money comes from and where it goes. Corporate taxes are at a 20 year low. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense dwarf all other spending. Doctors and soldiers are sitting pretty.

The Federal Budget in 2019: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office

The federal deficit in 2019 was $984 billion, equal to 4.6 percent of gross domestic product. Learn more about the deficit with a new interactive version of the infographic.

www.cbo.gov

Biden is proposing 2 trillion more in spending per year. That’s on top of our current deficit spending. The elimination of the trump tax cuts and raising individual taxes won’t pay for 1/2 his spending proposals.

Before any of you post about Trump and his spending I’ll just say that was irresponsible as well. Neither party wants to be the adult in the room.

Taxes do need to be raised. But, that’s to pay our current 27 trillion deficit and existing obligations. We don’t need to cut 1 dime from the budget. Just stop spending more and more each year. Slow the rate of increase to 2 percent.

I’m not proposing one existing program be cut. Not one. But, I am stating we don’t have the money for trillions more deficit spending.

 

[deleted162650]

Doctors and soldiers are sitting pretty.

Then you have bastards like @pgg double dipping.

 

[pgg]

Then you have bastards like @pgg double dipping.

Gonna get me some new rims!

(In all seriousness the last few months have reminded me that there are some perks to being a government employee.)

 

[deleted162650]

That's idiotic.

The military isn't a "jobs program".

I agree. Instead, what if we enrolled these people in a "mandatory labor" program. We could give them jobs, provide them with room and board, and instead of paying them, we could take care of their children and baby-mamas as well. I'm thinking mostly agricultural work - probably for labor intensive crops like tobacco and cotton. Maybe various domestic tasks as well. I think this could greatly benefit the African American community. I can't believe we've never explored this avenue as a nation before.

 

[dhb]

I agree. Instead, what if we enrolled these people in a "mandatory labor" program. We could give them jobs, provide them with room and board, and instead of paying them, we could take care of their children and baby-mamas as well. I'm thinking mostly agricultural work - probably for labor intensive crops like tobacco and cotton. Maybe various domestic tasks as well. I think this could greatly benefit the African American community. I can't believe we've never explored this avenue as a nation before.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I agree. Instead, what if we enrolled these people in a "mandatory labor" program. We could give them jobs, provide them with room and board, and instead of paying them, we could take care of their children and baby-mamas as well. I'm thinking mostly agricultural work - probably for labor intensive crops like tobacco and cotton. Maybe various domestic tasks as well. I think this could greatly benefit the African American community. I can't believe we've never explored this avenue as a nation before.

Your post is exactly why I refused to comment on any proposals for maintaining the family structure. Any comment which is not “PC” or “Woke” will be deemed racist. That’s why fixing the family structure must come from the left or even the communities of color themselves.

 

[Lawpy]

Your post is exactly why I refused to comment on any proposals for maintaining the family structure. Any comment which is not “PC” or “Woke” will be deemed racist. That’s why fixing the family structure must come from the left or even the communities of color themselves.

My aim is to use the woke culture to outwoke and defeat the woke culture.

 

[jwk]

Most of us on this board have more than enough money.

For all the constant complaining about reimbursement and AMCs, etc. on this forum, I'd say you're way off base.

 

[deleted126335]

From pandering to Putin to abusing allies and ignoring his own advisers, Trump's phone calls alarm US officials

In hundreds of highly classified phone calls with foreign heads of state, President Donald Trump was so consistently unprepared for discussion of serious issues, so often outplayed in his conversations with powerful leaders like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep...

amp.cnn.com

Well f#ck the cabinet for shirking their duty and not invoking the 25th amendment and removing him from office.

 

[nimbus]

For all the constant complaining about reimbursement and AMCs, etc. on this forum, I'd say you're way off base.

Complaining is a skill honed throughout medical training and we just can’t stop

 

[anbuitachi]

“I’m going to get rid of the bulk of Trump’s $2 trillion tax cut,” Biden continued, “and a lot of you may not like that but I’m going to close loopholes like capital gains and stepped up basis.”

Biden also said he would raise the corporate tax rate to 28%, which he said would raise an estimated $1.3 trillion over the next decade. The Trump tax cuts had shrunk corporate taxes to 21% from 35%.

This may result in higher levels of unemployment and of course, higher taxes for many of you on this Board. Biden plans on raising FICA taxes on everyone making more than $400,000 and increasing the federal tax rates as well. This will be a significant increase in taxes on all those earning $400-$600,000.
Have any of you looked at his proposals? You may be surprised just how much more you will be paying in taxes.

I doubt any of this money is used to pay down the debt either. Instead, it will all be spent on social programs which means the vast majority of the money will be squandered.

I mean yes, but. I think raising corporate taxes to a middle ground between pre-Trump and now is very reasonable. Definitely need to do something about capital gains (while making sure retirement accounts aren't included in that). You could even convince me that upping FICA is worth doing, although I'd prefer just raising the maximum a bit. Its 137k now, why not just go up to say 175k or something.

But if you're going to do all of that, I'm not sure increasing the federal income tax rates as well is really necessary.

In my opinion this stuff can be EASILY 'fixed'
Corporate tax to 28% is reasonable. Even Fica tax increase is OK. In my opinion the easiest way is to simply add more brackets. Add another level for above 1M, 5M, 10M, etc. Why is someone making 520k in same tax bracket as someone making 50M a year?

Instead they should add more deductions/increase upper limits for things like education loan repayment, medical expenses, childcare.

Most important of all, the government need to be responsible with the money and have accurate records of how the tax is used and what is teh effect from it. Cant be putting BILLIONS into things with nothing to show for

 

[vector2]

 

[Lawpy]

Tbh all states should expand medicaid

 

[nimbus]

 

[BLADEMDA]

Tbh all states should expand medicaid

I agree with you. All states should expand Medicaid. The poor in our society deserve a safety net for healthcare along with basic allowances for food, clothing, etc.

Vector 2 is simply wrong when he claims I want to abolish our safety nets for the poorest among us.

 

[Southpaw]

Exclusive: Hundreds of George W. Bush administration officials to back Biden, group says

Hundreds of officials who worked for former Republican President George W. Bush are set to endorse Democratic White House hopeful Joe Biden, people involved in the effort said, the latest Republican-led group coming out to oppose the re-election of Donald Trump. The officials, who include...

www.yahoo.com

‘Country over party’

Rare.

 

[anbuitachi]

the way they drew this graph is deceptive... the Yes bar is way bigger than the NO. Then i look over and its only 1% difference..

 

[Southpaw]

the way they drew this graph is deceptive... the Yes bar is way bigger than the NO. Then i look over and its only 1% difference..

im not sure why there’s background highlighting for ‘yes’ and can see how you’d think it was deceptive. The point however as I took is that even in the deepest of deep red states they voted to expand Medicaid because as it turns out, it’s a ****ing public health issue, and not a political issue as Republicans have repeatedly tried to make it since the ACA was enacted, and has been a torch Trump was proud to carry. Another example of politics over country not working too well for the Repubs lately.

 

[vector2]

the way they drew this graph is deceptive... the Yes bar is way bigger than the NO. Then i look over and its only 1% difference..

it’s not a bar, it’s a background highlight. The actual bars are to the right. And way to miss the big picture