Things I wish I knew at the beginning.

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also, retakes help your GPA, which is the first thing adcoms see . . . this I learned from you wonderful folks.

This is true ONLY for DO schools. For MD schools, the old grade is still counted, so there's no benefit in retaking a course vs. taking a different course.

However, neither MD nor DO will allow a grade lower than C in a prereq, so that's a required retake.

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this info is per adcoms i've spoken with

"community college classes are fine as long as you do well in them"

huge money saver and I have learned more in my CC classes than undergrad

also, retakes help your GPA, which is the first thing adcoms see . . . this I learned from you wonderful folks.


I second your post. I've read all over this forum and people bash the thought of going to a CC to get the Pre-Med courses out of the way. I personally have to seek the majority of mine from a CC due to time constraints and money. I have contacted every DO school in the country and have received 6 replies back so far. None of them have a problem with CC credits.
 
I second your post. I've read all over this forum and people bash the thought of going to a CC to get the Pre-Med courses out of the way. I personally have to seek the majority of mine from a CC due to time constraints and money. I have contacted every DO school in the country and have received 6 replies back so far. None of them have a problem with CC credits.

Maybe that's the case with DO schools, but it's not true for MDs. I actually have talked to several adcoms. Not only CC is not good enough, but even some state schools are considered to be a disadvantage. No one will admit this via e-mail or phone. You actually have to sit down with that person face-to-face and gain his/her trust before you are spoken to candidly. And there are some med schools (I think like Wake Forest) who tell you straight out that they will not accept pre-reqs from a CC. I find that extremely bold and amazing. You don't need further proof.

I have taken all of my pre-reqs at a CC since I didn't know any better. But then again, I am just transferring to a university and know what I have to do to make up. If you have no financial options other than CC, I guess it can be ok. Still, considering that you are going to spend over 150K for med school, I don't see how you can't invest at least in your cheap state school.
 
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Maybe that's the case with DO schools, but it's not true for MDs. I actually have talked to several adcoms. Not only CC is not good enough, but even some state schools are considered to be a disadvantage. No one will admit this via e-mail or phone. You actually have to sit down with that person face-to-face and gain his/her trust before you are spoken to candidly. And there are some med schools (I think like Wake Forest) who tell you straight out that they will not accept pre-reqs from a CC. I find that extremely bold and amazing. You don't need further proof.

I spoke to some adcoms who said that they don't care if SOME of your prereqs are at CC, but they want to see at least some of the "hard" prereqs at a 4 yr school. Specifically, the adcom I talked to said they cared least about physics and math, and most about orgo since it is considered a weeder.
 
This is a great thread. Very helpful.

I spoke to some adcoms who said that they don't care if SOME of your prereqs are at CC, but they want to see at least some of the "hard" prereqs at a 4 yr school.

I think this is one of those things for which there is no blanket answer. Each school will have its own unique view of CC prereqs, and some may have varying thoughts based on the applicant's background.

In my case, I have two options for prereqs -- CC at $70/hour or private university at $1000/hour. There are no other schools in a 100-mile radius. I have an undergrad degree from said private university, though (15 years old) and a cum laude law degree from a top tier school. I met F2F with the director of admissions at the school nearest me (where I am hoping to go) and he flat out told me that the CC prereqs are no issue whatsoever given that I have limited options (i.e., no state university nearby) and have demonstrated that I can perform at a high level in a doctorate program. He admitted that in the event there were two identical applicants except one went to CC and one to univ., the univ. applicant would have the advantage. But he pointed out that as a practical matter, there just aren't a lot of situations where you have identical applicants, especially with nontrads.

He did say that if I am able to, taking a couple of upper level electives at the private university would be good for my application. I plan to take Biochem and another during next summer when I am applying.
 
this info is per adcoms i've spoken with

"community college classes are fine as long as you do well in them"

huge money saver and I have learned more in my CC classes than undergrad

also, retakes help your GPA, which is the first thing adcoms see . . . this I learned from you wonderful folks.

*Just some more info on the C.C. prereqs debate*
I've been struggling with taking prereqs @ the C.C. since I moved and missed the 4 year college deadline for Fall...
I have a good friend who is nontrad and is starting med school this year, yeah for him :)- anyway, he took BIO and Chem at a C.C. and he was denied interviews the first year he applied even though he had a 4.0 and a double BIO/Chem major!
He had to retake both bio and chem to be granted interviews at a couple of the med schools he had applied to for go around two.
This shouldn't be, but it is.
I've since decided to transfer in the Spring to the 4 year and wait 'til next year to take the prereqs and focus on my general ed. stuff at the C.C.
As a mom of three young kids and 28 years old I can't afford any other strikes against my application, I'll take the hit on the year of general ed at the C.C. for a stronger application and med school prereqs at the 4 year college...
 
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*Just some more info on the C.C. prereqs debate*
I've been struggling with taking prereqs @ the C.C. since I moved and missed the 4 year college deadline for Fall...
I have a good friend who is nontrad and is starting med school this year, yeah for him :)- anyway, he took BIO and Chem at a C.C. and he was denied interviews the first year he applied even though he had a 4.0 and a double BIO/Chem major!
He had to retake both bio and chem to be granted interviews at a couple of the med schools he had applied to for go around two.
This shouldn't be, but it is.
I've since decided to transfer in the Spring to the 4 year and wait 'til next year to take the prereqs and focus on my general ed. stuff at the C.C.
As a mom of three young kids and 28 years old I can't afford any other strikes against my application, I'll take the hit on the year of general ed at the C.C. for a stronger application and med school prereqs at the 4 year college...

Umm, how do you know the "cause and effect" of his poor success in his first app cycle is attributable to his CC pre reqs? Was he specifically told "you need to retake these pre reqs at a 4 year" to get an interview at our school(s)? At least name the schools involved in this anecdote...
 
About the CC admission credits:

I called my local med school yesterday and was told they would not accept cc hours. Only hours from a four-year university. I was crushed. I have two local CC at $89 or $121 credit hour or the private univ at $700 credit hour. I have no choice but to add another $24,000 on my already large undergraduate loan pile to get in these requirements. So sad:(
 
About the CC admission credits:

I called my local med school yesterday and was told they would not accept cc hours. Only hours from a four-year university. I was crushed. I have two local CC at $89 or $121 credit hour or the private univ at $700 credit hour. I have no choice but to add another $24,000 on my already large undergraduate loan pile to get in these requirements. So sad:(

DocLucy,

Which school - Pikeville Osteo, UofLSOM or Kentucky SOM - told you this?
 
About the CC admission credits:

I called my local med school yesterday and was told they would not accept cc hours. Only hours from a four-year university. I was crushed. I have two local CC at $89 or $121 credit hour or the private univ at $700 credit hour. I have no choice but to add another $24,000 on my already large undergraduate loan pile to get in these requirements. So sad:(
Actually you should be thankful that they gave you an honest answer. Imagine having to go through all the stress and expense of applying to medschool whereas your prereqs are already disqualifying you. In CA schools will NOT tell you that CC is bad, but if you take an adcom aside and have a frank conversation, that's when the truth comes out.

You don't really have to retake all the CC courses, but you will have to apply to a different medschool. I also hope that you have completed at least as many university credits as CC credits because otherwise I don't think anyone will take your coursework seriously, barring a great MCAT score. Most medschools require bachelor's to get in anyway, so a four year university is a requirement.
 
I graduated forever and a day ago with a BS in Bio, so I had already taken every prereq. Still, I knew I needed current classes, so I spoke with the AdCom at my local U about taking some of those at the local CC, specifically Org, Chem, and maybe another Bio. She said that was fine but that I should also take some advanced bios at the U, just to show I could hang with the students at a higher level.

I wonder if it matters that our local CC is now just 'College', granting a few 4-year degrees?

So if my original classes were at a 4-yr and my latest are at a C(C), I wonder what most med schools would think?
 
Hello,

Im getting ready to start a post bac and this post is like an answered prayer I thank the person who created it, and everyone that is posting it is very thoughtful of everyone! I have a question though I will be taking physics for the first time and general chemistry for the first time and by first I MEAN FIRST! Never took it in high school I thought I was so cool for taking life and physical science instead of the real sciences! I didnt know this mistake was going to haunt me for life! Now looking at my friends physics and general chem books these classes are not really "Intro" there seems to be stuff that needs to be learned before... Does anyone have any advice on how I can obtain that information? How can I learn the stuff from like real introductory classes other then taking the intro classes since Im being charged a 1,000 dollars per credit hour! Is there a book anyone found useful? Tried google it wasn't very helpful any suggestions... I feel as if Im going to fail miserably esp considering my not so great math background! Any feedback will be appreciated! Thanks!
 
Hello,

Im getting ready to start a post bac and this post is like an answered prayer I thank the person who created it, and everyone that is posting it is very thoughtful of everyone! I have a question though I will be taking physics for the first time and general chemistry for the first time and by first I MEAN FIRST! Never took it in high school I thought I was so cool for taking life and physical science instead of the real sciences! I didnt know this mistake was going to haunt me for life! Now looking at my friends physics and general chem books these classes are not really "Intro" there seems to be stuff that needs to be learned before... Does anyone have any advice on how I can obtain that information? How can I learn the stuff from like real introductory classes other then taking the intro classes since Im being charged a 1,000 dollars per credit hour! Is there a book anyone found useful? Tried google it wasn't very helpful any suggestions... I feel as if Im going to fail miserably

esp considering my not so great math background! Any feedback will be appreciated! Thanks!


Community college chemistry course
 
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Hello,

Im getting ready to start a post bac and this post is like an answered prayer I thank the person who created it, and everyone that is posting it is very thoughtful of everyone! I have a question though I will be taking physics for the first time and general chemistry for the first time and by first I MEAN FIRST! Never took it in high school I thought I was so cool for taking life and physical science instead of the real sciences! I didnt know this mistake was going to haunt me for life! Now looking at my friends physics and general chem books these classes are not really "Intro" there seems to be stuff that needs to be learned before... Does anyone have any advice on how I can obtain that information? How can I learn the stuff from like real introductory classes other then taking the intro classes since Im being charged a 1,000 dollars per credit hour! Is there a book anyone found useful? Tried google it wasn't very helpful any suggestions... I feel as if Im going to fail miserably esp considering my not so great math background! Any feedback will be appreciated! Thanks!

Don't worry about it so much, at least not for the reasons you cite. You are not alone - I did not take them in HS either...got a lib arts undergrad degree...and then made As in a tough post bacc...maybe read the books in the "... for Dummies" series?

As for math, you only need competency in algebra, not calculus...statistics would be very helpful, too...realize that for most med schools, a year of college level math is required...but they can be algebra and stats...
 
OP said:
- Try to actually understand what the equations mean in physics even if you can get a decent grade through sheer memorization. It makes studying for the MCAT a lot easier if you have actually puzzled out the underlying logic.

- Except for Enthalpy. Enthalpy will never make sense. Just memorize the equations. I know, that's chem, but whatever.

Enthalpy made a lot more sense after p-chem.
 
This was great. However, it is possible to use it to your advantage:

- When on SDN, read 10 times more than you post.

- Use the search function extensively to find out about any specific topic you're interested in.

- When you do ask a question, make sure that you ask it in any other forum than the Pre-allo. If you think that a pre-med can answer your question, then you have not done your homework enough. If you're short on time and want to ask questions that are not that important to you, ok, fine.

- Make sure that you are not limited only to one subforum. Read threads in the Allo, MCAT, and even Residency suforums. I have learned so much from there.

- When you go to any forum, sort all the threads by the number of replies, views, and rating. Usually the most viewed threads are the most useful ones.

- DO NOT rely on your memory. When you see something interesting on SDN, WRITE IT DOWN in a word processor and put the hyperlink as to where you saw the information. Right now I have a 24 page Word document consisting of 10,035 words (over 50,000 characters) that consist of nothing but useful infromation I have gathered from SDN over the past eight months. That information is not completely organized yet, but once my application cycle arrives, I will post the entire document.



A link to this thread, along with some of the recommendations here, goes into my file right now.
I'm right there with you! Post the entire document! I have been printing everything to PDF files and have a whole system to organize these topics: Personal statements, financing med school, etc..
You definitely have to be wise while reading through here but there's some great stuff!
Aren't we glad that we have the web? Man... How did the applicants in the 60s and 70s did all of this work without the internet?
 
I'm right there with you! Post the entire document! I have been printing everything to PDF files and have a whole system to organize these topics: Personal statements, financing med school, etc..
You definitely have to be wise while reading through here but there's some great stuff!
Aren't we glad that we have the web? Man... How did the applicants in the 60s and 70s did all of this work without the internet?

lol! I don't think the process was quite as daunting in the 60's and 70's.
 
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Make yourself a spread sheet of the schools you apply to, the address and phone number of the admissions office, when they released a secondary to you, when you submitted it, when you heard your app was complete, when you got your interview invite...basically log any communication you have with the school along with dates and notes....makes it much easier to follow up with programs if you know EXACTLY when you submitted your stuff to them or last heard from them or who you spoke to...and you have their contact info in the same place.

Made my second application cycle much smoother than the first.

Oh, and if you went to a big undergrad university and aren't doing a post bacc program, make sure to check your committee letter application deadline waaaaay in advance...my deadline was about 1.5 out...missed it on the first app cycle...totally screwed me
 
Wear comfortable clothes- and ladies, laugh at all fellow female applicants in too high, too pointy heels. Come on now- did they really not realize they would be walking all over campus in those brand-new, never-worn shoes?


This may be off subject but why does it seem like women often have something to say about women wearing heels on certain occasions? I hear this all the time... Why assume we bought them just for the interview/occasion? Just for the stiletto wearing ladies out there, Im sure we have enough pairs of shoes in the closet and dont need to buy new ones for the interview. If my mother hadnt told me any different, id swear I was born in a stiletto heels.

BTW, this post is awesome I was wondering which would be the science to take first, but im already in the class....darnit!
 
I wish i had known that I would get "secondary burn out" and not do two secondaries I would have not added them to my primary application, and saved money. and yes I was the idiot wearing heels all day on the interview they were not stillettos thankfully they were kinda thick. when I am in med school next year it will be scrubs jogging outfits sneakers and clogs everyday. LOL
 
Sorry...no words of wisdom here. It's been covered in thorough detail. I just had to pipe in to let you all know that this is the BEST thread I've ever read, anywhere!!!
 
Another thing I STRONGLY recommend is to be willing to walk away if med school's not REALLY what you want. My MD/PhD faculty surgeon housemate says that all the way through med school and residency and beyond, there's no if, it's WHEN you want to quit, as in every other day. You can't do medicine for any other reason (money, prestige, parents) than that YOU really rabidly want the job that's on the other side of 7-12 years of training where you don't sleep, don't get paid or get paid crap, and everything else in your life falls by the wayside. (Are you willing to get fat for this? Are you willing to give up your basketball time to save your marriage? Are you willing to miss your kids' piano recitals? Are you willing to let attendings walk all over you, day after week after year?)

I have nothing but respect for my premed colleagues who've said "nope, this isn't the right thing to do" and walked away after going for it hard.

This attitude makes me want to vomit. But I like DrMidLife a lot and I received excellent advice about overseas medicine, so this isn't directed at DrMidLife but instead at the crap attitude that is being supported.

One follow up piece of advice here:

Medicine isn't hell for everyone. Not everyone gets into it hating all the work and thinking, "If I could be happy in another job, I would be in it."

So people have worked very hard before their medical career started and enjoy medical school and enjoy residency, even though it is hard.

I really hate this attitude, "It is hell and I wouldn't be here except I have no other choice."

How about this attitude, "It is very difficult but I am grateful to be here and I love it."

I like the Mexican neurosurgeon doc who said, when asked if being a doctor was hard, "It is easy compared to picking oranges in the sun all day." (or something to that extent).

REALLY DO WE HAVE IT THAT BAD?

This is from a Zig Ziglar CD, quoted:

Person living in a 3rd world country:

Remove the furniture in your home, leave only a few old blankets, a kitchen table and a wooden chair, remember you've never had a bed.

Throw out your clothes, each family member can keep his/her oldest suit or dress and suit or blouse. The head of the family can keep his or her shoes.

No kitchen appliances allowed, keep a box of matches a small bag of flour, some sugar and salt, a few onions and a dish of dried beans. Rescue them older potatoes from the garbage can, they are tonight's meal.

dismantle the bedroom, shut off the running water, take out the wiring, the lights and everything that is run by electricity. Take away the house and move the family into the tool shed.

Cancel the newspaper and magazine subscriptions and throw out your books you won't miss them because you are illiterate. No radio or TV either. No more mail carrier, fire fighters, or gov't services. The 2 classroom school is 3 miles away. No hospital or doctor, the closest clinic is 10 miles away with a midwife in charge. Get there by bus or bicycle, if you have one.

... Your net worth is $5.

Start cultivating your 3 acres of land, try hard to raise $300 in cash crops of which your landlord gets 1/3 and your money lender gets 10%.

Find a way for your children to bring in a little money so that you have enough money to eat most days. But it won't be enough to keep you healthy so lop off 25-30 years of your life expectancy.

Did you know, our newspaper carriers make more money than 66% of all the working people in the world who have full time jobs?

All this "it will be hell" advice is horrible. We all know doctors, lots of them happy. An ER doc of 20 years came and spoke to my state medical school's students and I was able to attend, he spends a ton of time with his family and children. I can't remember the exact # of hours he works but I recall it was less than 60 hrs per week. Yeah, there are some horrible specialties out there but there are plenty of physicians who don't work over 60-70 hrs and stay in good health and have happy families!

Is this really that hard? Trade places with the people in a 3rd world country for 1 year then come back here and tell me how hard it is to study, pass exams and work 70 hrs or so a week. Big deal compared to what they go through.
 
I really hate this attitude, "It is hell and I wouldn't be here except I have no other choice."

How about this attitude, "It is very difficult but I am grateful to be here and I love it."

I like the Mexican neurosurgeon doc who said, when asked if being a doctor was hard, "It is easy compared to picking oranges in the sun all day." (or something to that extent).

EdLongshanks is literally jumping up and down and cheering. Yes, Yes. Bennie, when did you start making this much sense?

I worked my way through my first college experience by chopping weeds and picking tomatoes in the central valley of California with the Mexicans (I was the only non-hispanic there. They thought I was some sort of weird farmer's son who was spying on them). I remember working one July day pulling sunflowers out of sugar beets. There was no tool involved except those marvelous inventions called hands and back muscles.

Med school can't be much harder.
 
EdLongshanks is literally jumping up and down and cheering. Yes, Yes. Bennie, when did you start making this much sense?
Sometime shortly after birth.

I worked my way through my first college experience by chopping weeds and picking tomatoes in the central valley of California with the Mexicans (I was the only non-hispanic there. They thought I was some sort of weird farmer's son who was spying on them). I remember working one July day pulling sunflowers out of sugar beets. There was no tool involved except those marvelous inventions called hands and back muscles.

Med school can't be much harder.

You are right. Lets stay off the complain train, it leads to nowhere.:)
 
Wow.. this is a fantastic forum. For those of you who manage to read to the bottom, I'll lend my 2 cents because I have a few things here that I know I did right and made me a better candidate and things that could have made my life easier.

- Get a job as a unit clerk in a hospital. I originally grabbed this job as a foot in the door to "clinical experience," but let me tell you. I've learned countless things from watching residents screw up their orders that will save me from having my time wasted because of errors so glaringly obviousy the unit clerk with a high school education could notice, but the second year resident didn't. I'm telling you, it will save you precious minutes of sleep every night.

- then get a job as an emergency trauma technician at a large hospital. I've seen so many residents who look scared when they walk into rooms. It's best to learn how to talk to people when you're not being rushed by some jerk-off attending. You also need to have smelled and seen oozing black tary stool for the first time before you get to medical school among other things.

- Be very cognizant of the fact that this journey you are about to undertake is LONG. It's even longer after you start medical school, so don't get so wrapped up in where you think you're going because there are kids and families who are right here now that deserve your heart and mind as well. For them, your journey is quite different.

- You can survive a crappy test, or a class and a C isn't the end of the world

- Learn what a DO is and what their process is early in the process. The stats are lower, the focus in candidates are different, and you might just find a better opportunity. Besides, why would you immediately close off 25% of all medical school slots in the US?

- Research isn't everything, sometimes they want people who will say they just want to take care of people.

- Find healthy ways to deal with stress that don't involve alcohol. There's lots of research out there about alcohol abuse before medical school leading to a much darker path in the profession later. If you're drinking to cope with life now, imagine how fast you'll jump to it when it gets down right nightmareish during and after medical school.

- Look into an online Masters' in Public Health during the same time as the Post-Bac. It's a phenomenal degree, provides a wealth of knowledge to build upon in medical school and looks good in an interview.
 
About the CC admission credits:

I called my local med school yesterday and was told they would not accept cc hours. Only hours from a four-year university. I was crushed. I have two local CC at $89 or $121 credit hour or the private univ at $700 credit hour. I have no choice but to add another $24,000 on my already large undergraduate loan pile to get in these requirements. So sad:(

Or perhaps you need to find another school that isn't quite so friggin elitist.
 
-I wish I had known it wouldn't be that bad : ) I spent my application year really stressed about the what ifs. Then, once I got the app done, I was ok for awhile. First year med school, I spent too much time wondering how on earth they decided to accept me. I had very little experience in multiple choice world and thought my MCAT was a fluke. After about six months I got over it, and now it's mostly fun (don't ask me 3 days before an exam, I'll tell you it sucks).

-I wish I had known that adcoms tell untruths, not intentionally, but just because they aren't really going to keep track of what's going on with all 10000 applicants, and some of them don't really know how things are done.

-I didn't know that my laundry would be so appealing....anything is a distraction when you are a full-time studier.

-I DO NOT regret not taking more science pre-reqs, however, if you're a low GPA type, or if your MCAT practice average is below 20, then I would keep adding those immuno and anatomy classes. Anatomy was painful, but I don't believe it was much less painful for those w/ an undergrad course.

-I wish I realized just how silly interview day was ahead of time. The interviewers are looking for stability and maturity. Tee-hee! Go ahead, pit me against any 22yo!

-My biological clock ticks when I'm tired of studying, and I think, gosh, wouldn't it be nice to stay home w/ a baby and to h**l w/ this pathway? Then I remember what it's like to deal w/ leaky diapers and angry baby and think, nah, this is okay.

-Regarding where to apply: I would look at scutwork more thoroughly than I did. I think how miserable your interns are will affect your training. Then I would look at the interview reviews here on SDN, and on the Class of .... threads. I think you get a decent feel for what the issues are on those threads. For the 1st half of school, you need to decide what learning style will work for you, for the 2nd half, you need to decide what sort of hospital(s) you want to experience. If there is a specialty you *know* you want, you need to make sure it's strong at that school.
 
well ive done exactly that: im taking 12 hours of sciences now and working full time and applying. however, i have A's in every class and will have done 42 hours of post bacc work with a 3.93 (assuming i keep A's). Ive taken an above poster's advice by taking the most difficult science courses i could find. i'm going to update the schools at the end of this semester. i know it will be late but i hope it can help me somewhat. if not, caribbean it is! I hope my 13 publications helps as well.

13 publications. . .
 
Posted by BennieBlanco:

"One follow up piece of advice here:

Medicine isn't hell for everyone. Not everyone gets into it hating all the work and thinking, "If I could be happy in another job, I would be in it."

So people have worked very hard before their medical career started and enjoy medical school and enjoy residency, even though it is hard.

I really hate this attitude, "It is hell and I wouldn't be here except I have no other choice."

How about this attitude, "It is very difficult but I am grateful to be here and I love it."

I like the Mexican neurosurgeon doc who said, when asked if being a doctor was hard, "It is easy compared to picking oranges in the sun all day." (or something to that extent).

REALLY DO WE HAVE IT THAT BAD?"

Wow, BennieBlanco I really thought you were a D***.

I've done some really interesting jobs. I've worked 80 hours a week doing something that I was not very interested in. But all that said, when you are engaged, when you are living your passion and it is part of who you are then it isn't a job it's your life.

I guess it depends on your priorities. What is important in your life?

Would you continue if you made 10 dollars a week, had no home and still had to support a family? What sacrifices would you make?

RB
 
What I've learned since finishing college six years ago, since working, since spending the last year of a wonderful career on the fast track to success regretting that I didn't become a doctor when I could have is that hardship is relative. Everybody has a different perception of what's good and bad of what's easy and difficult. I also know that not every medical school is hell on Earth. Are sacrafices made to become a doctor? Of course. Are they worthwhile? That's up to you. Can anyone else dictate what your life will be as a premed, med student, or anything else? Most certainly not because that person isn't you.
 
Wow.. this is a fantastic forum. For those of you who manage to read to the bottom, I'll lend my 2 cents because I have a few things here that I know I did right and made me a better candidate and things that could have made my life easier.

- Get a job as a unit clerk in a hospital. I originally grabbed this job as a foot in the door to "clinical experience," but let me tell you. I've learned countless things from watching residents screw up their orders that will save me from having my time wasted because of errors so glaringly obviousy the unit clerk with a high school education could notice, but the second year resident didn't. I'm telling you, it will save you precious minutes of sleep every night.

- then get a job as an emergency trauma technician at a large hospital. I've seen so many residents who look scared when they walk into rooms. It's best to learn how to talk to people when you're not being rushed by some jerk-off attending. You also need to have smelled and seen oozing black tary stool for the first time before you get to medical school among other things.

- Be very cognizant of the fact that this journey you are about to undertake is LONG. It's even longer after you start medical school, so don't get so wrapped up in where you think you're going because there are kids and families who are right here now that deserve your heart and mind as well. For them, your journey is quite different.

- You can survive a crappy test, or a class and a C isn't the end of the world

- Learn what a DO is and what their process is early in the process. The stats are lower, the focus in candidates are different, and you might just find a better opportunity. Besides, why would you immediately close off 25% of all medical school slots in the US?

- Research isn't everything, sometimes they want people who will say they just want to take care of people.

- Find healthy ways to deal with stress that don't involve alcohol. There's lots of research out there about alcohol abuse before medical school leading to a much darker path in the profession later. If you're drinking to cope with life now, imagine how fast you'll jump to it when it gets down right nightmareish during and after medical school.

- Look into an online Masters' in Public Health during the same time as the Post-Bac. It's a phenomenal degree, provides a wealth of knowledge to build upon in medical school and looks good in an interview.

--Was scared of Anatomy Lab. Turned out to be great and very helpful. Was not scary.

--How it really was to study hard, giving it all you had and still barely get a C in a class......

--It is not the material that is difficult. IT IS THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEARN IT IN......As in 39 chapters in Biochemistry in 2 1/2 weeks.

As far as the whiners, you will have them everywhere. I actually used to be a drug rep and had people I worked with that complained. They were working 10-3 (maybe) and earning six figures and basically being paid to be a good guy with no car, gas or insurance payments and still ggriping! When some of these poeple lose their jobs, reality is gonna kick them in the teeth.

As for my quotes for the whiners:

--Life is a s**t sandwich. Everyone takes a bite.

--The grass may be greener on the other side, but you still have to mow it.
 
Posted by BennieBlanco:

"One follow up piece of advice here:

Medicine isn't hell for everyone. Not everyone gets into it hating all the work and thinking, "If I could be happy in another job, I would be in it."

So people have worked very hard before their medical career started and enjoy medical school and enjoy residency, even though it is hard.

I really hate this attitude, "It is hell and I wouldn't be here except I have no other choice."

How about this attitude, "It is very difficult but I am grateful to be here and I love it."

I like the Mexican neurosurgeon doc who said, when asked if being a doctor was hard, "It is easy compared to picking oranges in the sun all day." (or something to that extent).

REALLY DO WE HAVE IT THAT BAD?"

Wow, BennieBlanco I really thought you were a D***.


I've done some really interesting jobs. I've worked 80 hours a week doing something that I was not very interested in. But all that said, when you are engaged, when you are living your passion and it is part of who you are then it isn't a job it's your life.

I guess it depends on your priorities. What is important in your life?

Would you continue if you made 10 dollars a week, had no home and still had to support a family? What sacrifices would you make?

RB

lol. Nope, I just occasionally play with people. I hope I don't offend. I wish you good luck friend.:)
 
This is a great thread.

I wish I knew that stress management is the life skill.

Given my first career involved decisions like.... nah it's way too perfect of a day to go to brazilian drum class. I'm gonna throw this frisbee instead. While my second one involved how do I get done with this busy ED shift and still find the energy to go out compete little neurotic freaks.

I was totally unprepared to manage the stress of 2 jobs and premed gunnery. I aged lightyears for the worse. Med school and training i now realize will require maximum chillaxation powers in the face of stress.

Learn to control your own stressful perception. And you will be a jedi.
 
Learn to control your own stressful perception. And you will be a jedi.

jedi_squirrel.jpg
 
m.
 
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Hey guys,

I found this great slide show and lecture at the University of Washington school of Medicine. Some very helpful information, and a lot of it applies to us "non-trads" :D

http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Education/MD-Program/Admissions/Applicants/Tips-for-Success/Pages/The-Application.aspx

Sasha
 
I very much enjoyed reading this thread... You know, if I had it to do all over I have maybe one suggestion. Really highlight your non-traditional experience.

I was so darn paranoid about getting research experience and clinical experience, along with straight A's and a good MCAT... that I forgot about what I had done in the past.

And get this, almost ALL of my interviewers cared MORE about my real estate, MIS, and finance background then they did about all that silly undergrad stuff. Really, they love diversity... and they want someone that is different then all those 22 year old pre-meds! LoL, no offense to any 22 year olds... I love ya guys. :love:

Peace..
 
nm, that was my mistakes
 
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So, CC question here. I have taken all my prereqs postbacc at a CC, but it is actually a 4-year degree granting institution since i've been taking courses there. It's now called Florida State College instead of Florida Community College. Does this make any difference?
 
bump

nontrads rock:cool:

just sayin
 
oh yea, wish i'd have planned my prereq's closer to my mcat date

take the ones you feel will give you the most grief last, i should have taken physics the semester right before the mcat but did awesome in org.chem. and could've taken it earlier
 
okay, maybe this exists already. But on the off chance that it doesn't:

Things that, as a non-traditional applicant, i wish i had known when i began.

I was lucky. I had saved up some money and have a very supportive wife and no kids yet. Ymmv.

- you can overcome bad grades, i had a lot. Graduated summa cum barely in 1993. I have not yet encountered a question regarding my sordid past in my interviews.

- school is more work than i remembered it being. As a professional for many years, i worked very hard and i often thought wistfully (and inaccurately) of college as a time of carefree drunkenness. Maybe it was, but being a premed is a lot of work. Don't get suckerpunched.

- take gen chem and physics, then bio and orgo. Try to do it that way since those subjects sorta work together. Do not take biochem without at least orgo i first.

- orgo will take over your life. Carve out a lot of time for it. Tell your significant other that it's going to be a tough few months.

- good orgo supplement books - organic chemistry as a second language.

- many schools will let you take biochem to substitute for an orgo class. This may come in handy.

- try to actually understand what the equations mean in physics even if you can get a decent grade through sheer memorization. It makes studying for the mcat a lot easier if you have actually puzzled out the underlying logic.

- except for enthalpy. Enthalpy will never make sense. Just memorize the equations. I know, that's chem, but whatever.

- the electricity equations actually make sense best if you think about them in terms of force, potential energy and work (f*d). Things like voltage and potential seem less mysterious in this context.

- in anatomy - bring your book to class. Circle the id#/caption of each picture that the professor puts up on the screen. Then circle the name of each anatomical item that the professor mentions. Focus on these items. This makes it much easier to know what's important and what isn't. There is a lot that is in the book but can't make it into lecture.

- in anatomy, redux - make your own flashcards. Even if you can't draw. Draw it anyway. Another thing that worked for me: Photocopy the pictures from the book. On the photocopy, white out all the names leaving the arrows in. Photocopy the new version a bunch of times. Fill in the names. Over and over again.

- my suggestion: Do not do a 12 month or even 18 month postbacc program. Very hard to get good grades. Very hard to get research experience and volunteer. On the off chance that you make it through with awesome grades, you probably won't have time to study enough to do non-trad well on the mcat. You also will only be able to take the bare minimum prereqs. I know one guy who pulled it off at my school and he was a genius (and is at case right now). The other 15 guys who tried it, not so much.

- kaplan is a waste of money if you understand your classes and studied hard. Start early. Get the examkrackers books: First, get the subject books that teach the subjects and have little mini-quizzes in them. When you finish a subject book, before moving on to the next subject book, get the 1001 questions book and do all of the questions. Do this for each of the 4 subjects (verbal doesn't have a 1001 book, it's 101 passages or something). Next, get access to some computer based mcats. I think there are a few sources for this.

- i did 13 computer based mcats. This is too many by about 7 in my opinion. My scores went like this: 32, 39, 42, 43, 40, 39, 39, 37, 36, 30 and then bounced around 30. I did ok on the real thing, by my point is that i peaked early and just about gave myself a heart attack by overdoing it.

- people will tell you that it doesn't matter where you take your premed courses. It sure doesn't look that way when i look at the interviewee pools i've seen so far. If you can afford it, take your classes at a well-known program.

- if you come from a non-science background try to take extra science classes, especially bio - immuno, physiology, genetics, cell bio, biochem, anatomy, etc. This seems to come up a lot in my interviews, shows interest, dedication, passion, etc. Biochem in the bio department > biochem in the chem department.

- go to office hours. Try to get to know your professors by asking intelligent questions there. Recommendations are really important actually. I have fared worse at the schools that don't ask for recommendations before deciding to interview or not.

- get your recommendations early.

- if you go to northwestern, do not use the recommendation file service. Use interfolio or anything else. Hell, use smoke signals or an air horn.

- if you have time: Preread for every class. Do every problem in the book. It might not help for that class, but when you know the basics cold, the trickiness of the mcat gets less tricky.

- get some research experience if you can. One way is to start off as a volunteer in an academic hospital and get to know the attendings. I have found vectors into research work at two hospitals this way. See if your school will let you do an independent study. I did one over the summer and it comes up often in interviews.

- spend as little time on the pre-allo board as possible. There are some seriously malevolent psychotic little bastards on that thing. And a lot of bad/misleading information.

- they really do think of you as adding diversity. And when you sit in a room full of 22 year olds, you'll realize that they're right. It is a huge advantage to have professional and life experience. It won't overcome bad postbacc grades or mcat, i think, but it definitely puts you in a different category admissionswise.

- the narrative of your life is really important. It's okay that it took you 15 years to figure out what your passion is. But how did it come to you? How was it manifest before now? What have you done (besides your postbacc) to learn about medicine?

- start working on you personal statement six months before you submit your primary application. Seriously. There are editing companies out there that will take a look and actually make pretty good suggestions. Pm me if you want the company i used.

- some schools will send you a secondary 30 seconds after you submit your primary. Some screen and you won't hear for a while. Some don't screen and you still won't hear for a while (u colorado comes to mind). I don't know why, but try not to let it get to you.

- hopkins doesn't email you to tell you to submit your secondary, you have to go to their website and it just says something like "submit one if you want to." i lost a couple weeks on that one.

- after you are complete, there can be many months of absolute silence. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's just a silent rejection. The pre-allo forum gets into gigantic gordian knots of fury about this - no one really knows what they're talking about - again, just make sure you're complete. The rest is in the hands of your god.

- the interview database here at sdn is actually pretty useful.

- orgo is tested less and less on the mcat. My mcat had 2 orgo passages, my friend's had 1 passage. The material in the last 1/3 of my orgo sequence was neither on the mcat nor on the practice materials i had. Which leads me to believe that fate owes me a trimester of my life back.

- do not buy the princeton review 168 best medical schools book. It is absolutely riddled with misinformation, bad stats and math that doesn't add up. Seriously, the rush curriculum that it outlines hasn't been used there in 8 years. Luckily, i didn't know this and asked a really stupid question during my interview as a result.

Please add to this if you want to. Again, this is just the product of my experience. I have been really lucky in a lot of ways and some folks won't have enough time or resources to jump this many hoops.

Cf
this has been extremely helpful info...thx
 
\

- When you face your first exam in 10 years, you will worry that you gave up everything you had and are about to blow it all on one stupid genetics exam. Your fear motivated you to study. You will do well.

\


This is probably the best piece of advice i have read on this site so far.
 
I also enjoyed reading this thread so far, wonderful advice. I recently posted in the Allo-what are my chances section of the forum. I'm a post-bac and so far my gpa is at a 3.4 bio 102 B+ bio lab A- (school doesn't give A+). I am also in full year of summer chem (inorganic 1 and 2 and labs) and I am pretty sure I'll only get B's. There are not many post-bacs in my program since I go with mainly undergrads. The sad thing is I felt so much more confident going into the summer chem but I guess since I have not seen this stuff in 12+ years might have something to do with me not doing well...I don't want to destroy my chances. Do I slow down? Or can I make up the classes by taking more electives than just the pre-reqs (e.g. biochem, cell biology, genetics, pharmacology) and hope to raise my grades? I'm registered to take ochem 1 and phys 1 at the same time with labs in the fall (work part-time). I also commute 1hr 20min each way. Any advice? I figured you guys might have some good insight. Sorry for posting in the chance thread already.
 
(Are you willing to get fat for this? Are you willing to give up your basketball time to save your marriage? Are you willing to miss your kids' piano recitals? Are you willing to let attendings walk all over you, day after week after year?)

ROFL that sound like a sad life to lead
 
This post is going in my archives thanks for all the info and when I get to that point I will post my own hopefully with more info or atleast a different perspective
 
I didn't understand until it was too late, but you really need to apply in JUNE. Like, the first day. I thought this was wildly exaggerated when I heard it, but now that I've applied myself, I see how true it is.

I filed my AMCAS in late July and didn't get complete anywhere until OCTOBER 1st (my school took forever to send out my committee letter, which cost me a lot of time). By then, some schools I'd applied to were giving out late January and even February interviews--and most schools interview only through March. In other words, the game is almost over and I'm just getting started.

So, if I would like to start in Fall 2013, I will need to apply in June 2012? So, like, I should be studying for the MCAT now?!?! Holy-moly! *breathes into a paper bag*

Thanks,
Potion
 
So, if I would like to start in Fall 2013, I will need to apply in June 2012? So, like, I should be studying for the MCAT now?!?! Holy-moly! *breathes into a paper bag*

Thanks,
Potion

Yes, you'll need to submit your AMCAS in June 2012. If you've got your prereqs under your belt, by all means start studying for the MCAT, but you've got more than enough time at this point that you don't need to fret just yet.
 
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