Things that make a bad vet

[FeenyFee]

What qualities do you see in vets that are bad for one reason or another?

What basic qualities should someone have that wants to become a veterinarian?

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[hazelmoo]

I think patience is an important one.. It's really hard to work with vets who are impatient with coworkers and clients.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Whoa what a thread. I think my number one thing I hate to see my mentors do is fail to take into account what the clients are saying. I can't tell you how often I have worked with vets who fail to believe clients.

Another pet peeve is I once worked for a vet who put down a healthy dog because the sibling had cancer and the owner decided the dog couldn't live alone. And the dogs weren't even particularly bonded. (Which I know because one of the techs lived next door to the owner).

Le sigh.

 

[katashark]

I think being dismissive is a particularly bad quality. If a tech or a student or a client have a question, please answer them. Don't act dismissive or act like they are stupid.

Also, there is a vet I work with is extremely inefficient and slow. She is constantly 45 minutes behind every day. She doesn't keep things moving and it slows down the whole practice and clients get mad for having to wait for so damn long.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Unwillingness to learn and change. The world of vet med is in constant flux in terms of both diagnostics and treatment/management strategies. Just because you learned how do it one way in school does not mean that other, better ways will never come about. We need to be flexible practitioners who always seek out new and better ways to do things.

 

[FeenyFee]

I think patience is an important one.. It's really hard to work with vets who are impatient with coworkers and clients.

Whoa what a thread. I think my number one thing I hate to see my mentors do is fail to take into account what the clients are saying. I can't tell you how often I have worked with vets who fail to believe clients.

Another pet peeve is I once worked for a vet who put down a healthy dog because the sibling had cancer and the owner decided the dog couldn't live alone. And the dogs weren't even particularly bonded. (Which I know because one of the techs lived next door to the owner).

Le sigh.

Wow that is so sad. I actually was wondering this today... Do vets have a moral obligation based on their oath or license (?) that they shouldn't put down healthy animals?

 

[Coquette22]

WTF beat me to it. My practice is a nice mix of old and new. Me and the other relative newbie (2013 grad) can go to the older ones for help, but the older ones also come to us for updated info. Medicine changes, vets have to change with it.

I'd also add that a bad vet doesn't admit when they don't know or need help. Sure, sometimes it's 3AM and it's just you. But vets should be willing, when they can, to seek outside help from colleagues, specialists, etc when needed.

 

[FeenyFee]

I think being dismissive is a particularly bad quality. If a tech or a student or a client have a question, please answer them. Don't act dismissive or act like they are stupid.

Also, there is a vet I work with is extremely inefficient and slow. She is constantly 45 minutes behind every day. She doesn't keep things moving and it slows down the whole practice and clients get mad for having to wait for so damn long.

I definitely understand the not being dismissive thing. Its already an intimidating environment for newbie coworkers or nervous clients.

 

[Jess Monster]

From my last vet assistant job: Yelling, demeaning, and insulting your staff is not a management style.

 

[DVMDream]

I hear kicking people is bad. Who knew?

 

[dyachei]

smart alec in me: 3/4 water, 1/4 cells and minerals.

Honestly, the biggest issue I think vets have is not keeping an open mind. With regards to their own staff, new research, owner concerns, etc. I've also seen some pretty crappy leaders as vets. Unfortunately, you need some leadership qualities because you do have to ask for help from colleagues, ask your staff to do things for you, and lead owners and their thought processes to a certain extent.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

smart alec in me: 3/4 water, 1/4 cells and minerals.

Honestly, the biggest issue I think vets have is not keeping an open mind. With regards to their own staff, new research, owner concerns, etc. I've also seen some pretty crappy leaders as vets. Unfortunately, you need some leadership qualities because you do have to ask for help from colleagues, ask your staff to do things for you, and lead owners and their thought processes to a certain extent.

Yep. A lack of leadership skills will make a very ineffective vet. Not necessarily a BAD vet, but an ineffective one is almost as problematic. Being comfortable in a leadership role is unfortunately not something that vet schools emphasize enough IMO.

 

[FeenyFee]

smart alec in me: 3/4 water, 1/4 cells and minerals.

Honestly, the biggest issue I think vets have is not keeping an open mind. With regards to their own staff, new research, owner concerns, etc. I've also seen some pretty crappy leaders as vets. Unfortunately, you need some leadership qualities because you do have to ask for help from colleagues, ask your staff to do things for you, and lead owners and their thought processes to a certain extent.

I think I definitely need to develop better leadership skills. A good leader is so awesome to have. Do you have any recommendations for how to develop that?

 

[FeenyFee]

Yep. A lack of leadership skills will make a very ineffective vet. Not necessarily a BAD vet, but an ineffective one is almost as problematic. Being comfortable in a leadership role is unfortunately not something that vet schools emphasize enough IMO.

I definitely notice how the head vet at my practice has such a calm and cool presence with everyone. She knows how to lead with out seeming bossy or disrespectful.

 

[thinkpawsitive]

From my experiences the things that stuck out were from one particular vet I worked under. There was a severe lack of communication between the vet and the clients -he often did not explain the plan of treatments to clients before just doing things, which I felt was rude and often led to unhappy clients, especially regarding their bills. Overall one of the big issues was that he was very money motivated. A lot of his treatment plans were legitimate and he just didn't communicate them effectively, but other times he often did things that weren't necessary just to pad the bill, even in routine visits, which was just wrong.

Aside from that, he was a very good vet with great technical and diagnostic skills - it just seemed like he had lost the original passion he had for the animals and put it towards money instead.

 

[katryn]

Inability to say no, on a number of levels, can get you into all kinds of trouble.

No, I don't know how to do that, or I'm uncomfortable doing that.
No, I can't work 14 days in a row...
No, I will not let a client verbally abuse myself or my staff, we will talk when we have all calmed down.

The stress of this kind of stuff bleeds off in all kinds of unexpected ways.

 

[heyyimhayley]

Another pet peeve is I once worked for a vet who put down a healthy dog because the sibling had cancer and the owner decided the dog couldn't live alone. And the dogs weren't even particularly bonded. (Which I know because one of the techs lived next door to the owner).

I don't think that's a black and white situation. If it was the owner's request, the owner is the one you should be taking your moral pet peeve up with. Veterinarians often don't get a say in this. Plus owners like that are likely to just go elsewhere and find a vet who will, so that dog was going to die whether your vet did put him down or not.

 

[KCgophervet]

Wow that is so sad. I actually was wondering this today... Do vets have a moral obligation based on their oath or license (?) that they shouldn't put down healthy animals?

The vets job is to do what is best for the animal and the client. If that means putting down a healthy animal (rather than, say, having the client take matters into their own hands and shoot it or abandon it somewhere to fend for itself, which are possible alternatives) then that's what the vet does. I'm not saying that all vets will put down a healthy animal or do "convenience euthanasias," but I personally don't judge vets who do. We don't know what the alternative is for that animal and maybe it is the best decision for it.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Wow that is so sad. I actually was wondering this today... Do vets have a moral obligation based on their oath or license (?) that they shouldn't put down healthy animals?

I don't think so. I have seen vets refuse to put down animals. Mostly because they were involved on rescue but I don't think we have to euthanize if we think it's wrong.

 

[LetItSnow]

Meh. I think a handful of you should wait until you ARE vets to pass some of the judgments you're passing. Not going to single people out, but.... A few of you should cut the vets you're talking about some slack.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

I don't think that's a black and white situation. If it was the owner's request, the owner is the one you should be taking your moral pet peeve up with. Veterinarians often don't get a say in this. Plus owners like that are likely to just go elsewhere and find a vet who will, so that dog was going to die whether your vet did put him down or not.

I can understand that but however when you don't try to even exhaust other options, I feel like you are not doing your job. The guy was a real piece of work with a history of child abuse so I have to say everyone involved had some blame.

This was also a vet however who on numerous occasions forgot to ketamine cats and would be just about to make an incision.......and the cat would sneeze.

 

[heyyimhayley]

I don't think so. I have seen vets refuse to put down animals. Mostly because they were involved on rescue but I don't think we have to euthanize if we think it's wrong.

No, you're right that we don't have to, but there's more to the story than right and wrong.

I can understand that but however when you don't try to even exhaust other options, I feel like you are not doing your job. The guy was a real piece of work with a history of child abuse so I have to say everyone involved had some blame.

Yes, her job is to treat animals, but it's also a job and he's a client. Plus, how does she know if she refuses he won't go home and try to kill the dog himself? Especially in the situation you're describing, I don't doubt she may have done the animal a favor.

You will probably be asked about this at vet school interviews and they are looking for students who understand that it's not a black and white or right and wrong situation. So you should think about this some more, and I'm saying this for your own benefit.

 

[Trilt]

Re: keeping up to date and changing with the times. It's one level of bad to just refuse to change, or to not know that standards have changed (it's impossible to be 100% UTD on every topic ever). It is another thing, imo, to recognize that you're doing things exceedingly old-school, things have changed, and to deride other veterinarians as money-grubbing or over the top for doing things the new way. I have a clinic I've spent a bunch of time at that has strongly hinted at me working with them post-vet school, but the two main vets there are horrible about doing precisely that and I don't think I could tolerate it.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

No, you're right that we don't have to, but there's more to the story than right and wrong.



Yes, her job is to treat animals, but it's also a job and he's a client. Plus, how does she know if she refuses he won't go home and try to kill the dog himself? Especially in the situation you're describing, I don't doubt she may have done the animal a favor.

You will probably be asked about this at vet school interviews and they are looking for students who understand that it's not a black and white or right and wrong situation. So you should think about this some more, and I'm saying this for your own benefit.

I'm not saying it was black and white. And I understand that some day I will be in the same situation. And yes that guy probably would've shot the dog. But I'm very much into shelter medicine. I just don't think it's fair to the animal. I don't think it was fair they had to live with that guy at all.

I can understand what she did. And it was one of many acceptable answers to a very difficult problem. But I plan to have my own rescue for cases exactly like this. I've already worked with several vets who do the same and it's awe inspiring.

It depends on the situation. It always does. And I just would've liked to see her at least ask him if he had thought about the impact of his decision.

 

[FeenyFee]

I can understand that but however when you don't try to even exhaust other options, I feel like you are not doing your job. The guy was a real piece of work with a history of child abuse so I have to say everyone involved had some blame.

This was also a vet however who on numerous occasions forgot to ketamine cats and would be just about to make an incision.......and the cat would sneeze.

Sorry I am a pretty big newbie, can you explain this to me?

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Sorry I am a pretty big newbie, can you explain this to me?

They forgot to sedate the animal. That's all. Lack of attention to detail. Very much because her mental health was definitely not in the right state. She had a lot of things happen in her life right after I met her. And I believe she retired as soon as I left. She stopped doing surgeries the second time she did it because she was appalled at herself.

 

[heyyimhayley]

I'm not saying it was black and white. And I understand that some day I will be in the same situation. And yes that guy probably would've shot the dog. But I'm very much into shelter medicine. I just don't think it's fair to the animal. I don't think it was fair they had to live with that guy at all.

I can understand what she did. And it was one of many acceptable answers to a very difficult problem. But I plan to have my own rescue for cases exactly like this. I've already worked with several vets who do the same and it's awe inspiring.

It depends on the situation. It always does. And I just would've liked to see her at least ask him if he had thought about the impact of his decision.

Okay, but rehoming the animal isn't in her job description though. You also posted the story on a thread about bad vets, and my point is that her decision there does not make her a bad vet in the slightest.

I wish you the best with developing that, your cause does sound truly wonderful. I think every animal deserves a home and a happy life, and it sucks that life can't 100% be that way.

With the career we are trying to enter, I know that I have to be prepared for this kind of situation and know that the choices I make may not have a right answer, and I have to choose what's best for the animal, the owner AND myself making a living.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Okay, but rehoming the animal isn't in her job description though. You also posted the story on a thread about bad vets, and my point is that her decision there does not make her a bad vet in the slightest.

I wish you the best with developing that, your cause does sound truly wonderful. I think every animal deserves a home and a happy life, and it sucks that life can't 100% be that way.

With the career we are trying to enter, I know that I have to be prepared for this kind of situation and know that the choices I make may not have a right answer, and I have to choose what's best for the animal, the owner AND myself making a living.

True enough point. It doesn't make her a bad vet. It was perhaps not the best place to mention it.

But I think it's time the profession embrace a more life centered view on euthanasia.

 

[Skimble]

I worked with a vet who was very smart and a very nice person, her one downfall was she was super timid. Most clients had little confidence in her and some of our pushier staff were able to undermine her (definitely a staff issue there). One time I was holding a puppy for her to vaccinate, the puppy squealed when she touched it with the needle and she jumped about a foot, yet the puppy never moved because I had a good grip. After 3 attempts she handed me the syringe and asked me to do it, but only after she left the room. I vaccinated the puppy by myself, and then it's littermate that belonged to the same owner. She practiced great medicine, but her lack of self confidence was a serious detriment. She was ultimately let go because of that. I honestly wish I could gift her some confidence because that's all she needs to be a fantastic vet.

I should follow this with, she was by no means a BAD vet, she just wasn't a VERY good one. I was one of the few staff that actually liked her and I was also possibly the only staff member that she liked (she wrote me a very nice eLOR).

 

[dyachei]

True enough point. It doesn't make her a bad vet. It was perhaps not the best place to mention it.

But I think it's time the profession embrace a more life centered view on euthanasia.

And I wish human med took a more quality of life centered approach to euthanasia. Life centered isn't always good. But if you become a vet, it is your personal choice

 

[FeenyFee]

I worked with a vet who was very smart and a very nice person, her one downfall was she was super timid. Most clients had little confidence in her and some of our pushier staff were able to undermine her (definitely a staff issue there). One time I was holding a puppy for her to vaccinate, the puppy squealed when she touched it with the needle and she jumped about a foot, yet the puppy never moved because I had a good grip. After 3 attempts she handed me the syringe and asked me to do it, but only after she left the room. I vaccinated the puppy by myself, and then it's littermate that belonged to the same owner. She practiced great medicine, but her lack of self confidence was a serious detriment. She was ultimately let go because of that. I honestly wish I could gift her some confidence because that's all she needs to be a fantastic vet.

I should follow this with, she was by no means a BAD vet, she just wasn't a VERY good one. I was one of the few staff that actually liked her and I was also possibly the only staff member that she liked (she wrote me a very nice eLOR).

I can understand that. Do you know if she eventually worked somewhere else? I hope lack of self confidence didn't hold her back for too long That can be a terrible thing to deal with, especially in a leadership position.

 

[Skimble]

And I wish human med took a more quality of life centered approach to euthanasia. Life centered isn't always good. But if you become a vet, it is your personal choice

SO MUCH THIS! I don't understand how it is humane to euthanize an animal with poor QOL and not a human when the route of the word humane is HUMAN. Granted with humans it should be the individual's decision, which could be fairly easy to determine as long as the person outlined it prior to a poor QOL event. If I'm ever in a situation where I will never recover, like an inoperable brain tumor, Huntington's disease or something along those lines, I really hope I can die with dignity rather than suffering. I find it to be such a beautiful thing to assist in ending the suffering of an animal. That said, there are times where I think "convenience euthanasia" (for non-human animals) is also the right/understandable choice.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

And I wish human med took a more quality of life centered approach to euthanasia. Life centered isn't always good. But if you become a vet, it is your personal choice

Quality of life plays a big part. It's not just keeping the patient alive. I wouldn't keep a dog with severe osteosarcoma alive when they can't walk and the cancer has metastasized if the owners were in agreeance.

It's once again not so black and white as maybe I'm making it seem.

 

[Skimble]

I can understand that. Do you know if she eventually worked somewhere else? I hope lack of self confidence didn't hold her back for too long That can be a terrible thing to deal with, especially in a leadership position.

She is at another practice. I'm not sure how she is doing there, but I hope in a different environment she is doing better. I could see how in that particular environment she wasn't allowed to flourish.

 

[dyachei]

SO MUCH THIS! I don't understand how it is humane to euthanize an animal with poor QOL and not a human when the route of humane is HUMAN. Granted with humans it should be the individual's decision, which could be fairly easy to determine as long as the person outlined it prior to a poor QOL event. If I'm ever in a situation where I will never recover, like an inoperable brain tumor, Huntington's disease or something along those lines, I really hope I can die with dignity rather than suffering. I find it to be such a beautiful thing to assist in ending the suffering of an animal. That said, there are times where I think "convenience euthanasia" (for non-human animals) is also the right/understandable choice.

my grandfather was in an unfortunate situation involving a ventilator and no will to live but he had already been on the ventilator because he didn't have a DNR. It was enough to make me think about it.

The thing is...nothing is black and white. Which is why everyone is cautioning you to be wary of passing judgement on these vets.

 

[Skimble]

my grandfather was in an unfortunate situation involving a ventilator and no will to live but he had already been on the ventilator because he didn't have a DNR. It was enough to make me think about it.

The thing is...nothing is black and white. Which is why everyone is cautioning you to be wary of passing judgement on these vets.

I'm truly sorry you and your grandfather had to go through that. From what I've heard from human medical professionals, most of them are on board with ending suffering too, it's just convincing legislation that is the problem.

It really isn't black and white. Each situation needs to be evaluated individually, whether human or non-human animal. I used to think I would never be ok with euthanizing a healthy animal, but now I know there are times when I believe it's not only ok, but the right thing to do. I sincerely hope that anyone that ends up with a veterinary degree comes to the same conclusion.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Vets who don't treat their technicians and support staff with respect, or allow them to work to their fullest potential. Vets who feel it is below them to pitch in and help out with grunt work when there is a need and they are available.

 

[TotesMahGoats]

Agreed, vets that don't treat their staff well. If you are constantly cycling through staff, and almost all of them start as untrained newbies, how do you offer your clients a high level of medicine? No one knows how to do anything...

Also, vets that throw their peers under a bus so that it makes them looks better right in front of clients.

And vets that refuse to learn new things because they already knows the best way to do EVERYTHING. (Yup, all the same guy...)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Vets who don't treat their technicians and support staff with respect, or allow them to work to their fullest potential. Vets who feel it is below them to pitch in and help out with grunt work when there is a need and they are available.

Oh man, I HATE that one. We had one clinician who would always talk down to the necropsy techs and order them around like they were the boss whenever we were doing one of their cases. I was still a resident at the time but you had better believe I got all momma bear whenever that person came around. You don't talk down to my techs. Period.

Of course....both the techs were huge dudes with beards and tattoos who could take apart a horse in minutes....but still....5'4'' WTF MOMMA BEAR!

 

[DVMDream]

I also hear that biting people is bad too..... rabies?



(I'm in an odd mood tonight, just go with it)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I also hear that biting people is bad too..... rabies?



(I'm in an odd mood tonight, just go with it)

Not always

 

[Mad Jack]

Kicking puppies. Definitely a bad habit to have as a vet.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

What qualities do you see in vets that are bad for one reason or another?

What basic qualities should someone have that wants to become a veterinarian?

Good communication skills are paramount. If you can't discuss things with clients and make them understand what's going on and what you want to do, nothing will ever get done. If you can't explain what care they have to give at home, everything you've done will be wasted. And if you can't communicate well with your staff, your patients will get poor care and the morale of the clinic will suffer - which will circle back to your patients getting poor care.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Not being able to admit (to self, other doctors, staff, or clients) when you were wrong or don't know something.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I wouldn't want to say that any particular vet I've worked with is 'bad' because they've all been really intelligent and did practice decent medicine for the most part. Where they had issues was not in that area. One vet couldn't say no and let her clients walk all over her. One example: She has a 10+ year history with a client who owns like 20 animals. He started just not paying his bill after an appointment, and it became a regular thing. He owes her around $1000 (and it's an extremely small practice) all the time because his wife sends him down with small checks every so often, but they keep coming in. While I'm not sure of his personal finances, my boss never once said "Look, this needs to stop. You've never discussed a payment plan with me at all." She also works herself to death. The woman gets a handful of weekends off a year and is on call 24/7.

Another treated her staff like crapola and also let her practice manager scream and run around like a tyrant daily. She has the highest staff turnover I've ever seen, yet hasn't made any changes whatsoever. I also still have issues with how she handled her practice after having another seizure. Her condition is uncontrolled. Instead of doing (what I think is) the smart thing and referring all surgeries, she continued to cut. Everything this doctor did was to increase revenue, but she also pays her staff terribly. She regularly pulls in at 10AM when our first appointment is 9, putting the entire day an hour behind. I could go on for hours.

I think what makes a great vet is the ability to recognize when something is wrong (whether it be staff or medical related) and actually fix it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I wouldn't want to say that any particular vet I've worked with is 'bad' because they've all been really intelligent and did practice decent medicine for the most part.

Dude I'm pretty sure the vet you worked for WAS bad...

 

[WildZoo]

Kicking puppies. Definitely a bad habit to have as a vet.

Punting kittens only makes you not a good vet though.

 

[Mad Jack]

Punting kittens only makes you not a good vet though.

I mean, half the time they're going out of the way to get in the way of your foot, so it's only natural to give them a little punt every now and again.

 

[hazelmoo]

I mean, half the time they're going out of the way to get in the way of your foot, so it's only natural to give them a little punt every now and again.

My kitten was sleeping right in front of the door today, and when I opened it I hit him in the face with it and stepped on his tail as he tried to run away. I then proceeded to cuddle him for 5 minutes and repeatedly tell him how sorry I was.. Does that count as punting?

 

[WildZoo]

I mean, half the time they're going out of the way to get in the way of your foot, so it's only natural to give them a little punt every now and again.

It's true though. Gandalf still has a foot obsession. He's just too big to punt now. But when he was a baby...