Things that make a bad vet

[Vetskoldreama]

I don't think that's a black and white situation. If it was the owner's request, the owner is the one you should be taking your moral pet peeve up with. Veterinarians often don't get a say in this. Plus owners like that are likely to just go elsewhere and find a vet who will, so that dog was going to die whether your vet did put him down or not.

One of the reasons I love my job is that when this has come up, management and doctors are very willing to say no to owners requesting euthanasia for no medical reason. The entire staff would take it home before euthanizing.
NEVER work somewhere that tells you this is needed. It's not. The animal could be surrendered to a shelter where it could potentially be adopted for a time before euthanizing.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Vetskoldreama]

I just need to quote and paste into the bad pre-vet thread.

What do you mean? I was referring to an animal that would be euthanized without a medical reason. Unless you work in shelter medicine, this is not something you must do as a veterinarian.

 

[dyachei]

What do you mean? I was referring to an animal that would be euthanized without a medical reason. Unless you work in shelter medicine, this is not something you must do as a veterinarian.

there are many reasons why euthanizing a healthy pet may be better than the alternative. This is something pre-vets don't tend to really truly understand until they are in vet school

 

[WildZoo]

What do you mean? I was referring to an animal that would be euthanized without a medical reason. Unless you work in shelter medicine, this is not something you must do as a veterinarian.

And I'm sure you have experience as a veterinarian to be able to make that statement

 

[Cephal0pod]

One of the reasons I love my job is that when this has come up, management and doctors are very willing to say no to owners requesting euthanasia for no medical reason. The entire staff would take it home before euthanizing.
NEVER work somewhere that tells you this is needed. It's not. The animal could be surrendered to a shelter where it could potentially be adopted for a time before euthanizing.

What if the owner brings it in to be euthanized, refuses to surrender the animal to be adopted out by you/your staff or a shelter, and informs you that if you don't euthanize said healthy animal they will take it home and dispose of it in an undesirable fashion?

 

[cowgirla]

One of the reasons I love my job is that when this has come up, management and doctors are very willing to say no to owners requesting euthanasia for no medical reason. The entire staff would take it home before euthanizing.
NEVER work somewhere that tells you this is needed. It's not. The animal could be surrendered to a shelter where it could potentially be adopted for a time before euthanizing.

Euthanasia, "convenience" or otherwise,isn't a black and white situation.

It's also not the vets job to take home unwanted pets. My house is full.

And not all shelters are open admission, no-kill.

Sometimes, euthanasia really is the lesser of all the evils. Sometimes there are behavioral issues that make a pet a poor candidate for adoption. You might not be privy to all the details of why an owner is requesting euthanasia. Sometimes there's an alternative. Sometimes there's not. Sometimes if you say no the owner will take matters into their own hands.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Well, that's how I get all my animals, through owners being dicks. I've seen this happen only once, and I will NEVER let it happen again. It will become my animal where I will adopt it out before it is euthanized.

Lol all my animals came to my doorstep. Literally. And my parents couldn't say no. (Ok wait I did adopt one old beagle off The List)

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Based off of a class discussion today: You're a bad vet if you jump to conclusions about another vet's (well, vet student's) decision and call them a hypocrite and ridiculous without knowing their thought process.

The topic was ear cropping/tail docking. Classmate shouted that out reaaaally quickly. A few of us followed up with "Well, I've seen the aftermath of a backyard breeder doing these procedures on their own. I'd rather doing it myself, even if it's not medically necessary."

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Euthanasia, "convenience" or otherwise,isn't a black and white situation.

It's also not the vets job to take home unwanted pets. My house is full.

And not all shelters are open admission, no-kill.

Sometimes, euthanasia really is the lesser of all the evils. Sometimes there are behavioral issues that make a pet a poor candidate for adoption. You might not be privy to all the details of why an owner is requesting euthanasia. Sometimes there's an alternative. Sometimes there's not. Sometimes if you say no the owner will take matters into their own hands.

Yes but I think that's one of the main reasons we go to school....how to read clients and make informed decisions. If somebody is clearly to that point, then yea I will euthanize. I won't let an animal suffer. And there are plenty of animals who can't go into the system. Dog aggressive dogs. I really feel that they are so hard to adopt out that they will spend the reminder of their lives in a block. And that's not fair. But if you have a no-kill shelter network like I do... it's a good thing to use. Once again it's not black and white. You're right.

 

[dyachei]

Yes but I think that's one of the main reasons we go to school....how to read clients and make informed decisions. If somebody is clearly to that point, then yea I will euthanize. I won't let an animal suffer. And there are plenty of animals who can't go into the system. Dog aggressive dogs. I really feel that they are so hard to adopt out that they will spend the reminder of their lives in a block. And that's not fair. But if you have a no-kill shelter network like I do... it's a good thing to use. Once again it's not black and white. You're right.

which is wildly different than saying that there is never a reason to euthanize for convenience. You've already touched on some major exceptions.

Also I've heard of vets telling people that they've euthanized and taken the animal home or re-adopted and they get into some *serious* trouble (not saying you are talking about that).

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

which is wildly different than saying that there is never a reason to euthanize for convenience. You've already touched on some major exceptions.

Also I've heard of vets telling people that they've euthanized and taken the animal home or re-adopted and they get into some *serious* trouble (not saying you are talking about that).

Well yea. Let's learn to not lie to clients.
But I think all sides should be considered in this debate. That's all. In many ways we are and are not on the same page.

And that's why we call it practicing medicine as my mentor once told me. Lol

 

[dyachei]

Well yea. Let's learn to not lie to clients.
But I think all sides should be considered in this debate. That's all. In many ways we are and are not on the same page.

And that's why we call it practicing medicine as my mentor once told me. Lol

it isn't the fact that you as a vet won't do that that people have issue with. it's the judging of those that do it.

There's a DVM group I'm a part of on FB. And one user thinks any declaw ever is cruel and started lashing out at DVMs that do them. Even though some do it for good reasons. She doesn't believe those exist. You can disagree without judgement.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

it isn't the fact that you as a vet won't do that that people have issue with. it's the judging of those that do it.

There's a DVM group I'm a part of on FB. And one user thinks any declaw ever is cruel and started lashing out at DVMs that do them. Even though some do it for good reasons. She doesn't believe those exist. You can disagree without judgement.

Fair enough. But I think we all judge unfortunately. It's a nasty side of human nature that we all struggle with from time to time. There were many things I didn't say about the one vet I worked for that I never will....and that's truly where the judgement stands. Things that were unprofessional, uncalled for, and just downright dirty.

We all know we can only take so much before our opinion is irrevocably changed. Trust is hard to regain.

 

[dyachei]

Fair enough. But I think we all judge unfortunately. It's a nasty side of human nature that we all struggle with from time to time. There were many things I didn't say about the one vet I worked for that I never will....and that's truly where the judgement stands. Things that were unprofessional, uncalled for, and just downright dirty.

We all know we can only take so much before our opinion is irrevocably changed. Trust is hard to regain.

it's really, really easy to say that now. Life may surprise you.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Well yea. Let's learn to not lie to clients.
But I think all sides should be considered in this debate. That's all. In many ways we are and are not on the same page.

And that's why we call it practicing medicine as my mentor once told me. Lol

Notice how all of the veterinarians and vet students are saying there are a lot of factors to be considered and there are no absolutes. That's because with experience, we all learn that it only hurts us to judge others for what they do, particularly when it comes to euthanasias. Humane euthanasia is an accepted treatment for just about anything. It may be plan A in some situations, plan B in others, and plan Z for others (where you becoming a hoarder and adopting the pet, or finding another adopter may be higher up on the list). Where euthanasia falls compared to other options is very relative. It's not up to you to judge where it falls for others.

It's not a ****ing debate.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

it's really, really easy to say that now. Life may surprise you.

Life does that. But I can only speak from what I know now. Doesn't mean it won't change. Each experience we have holds our own truths. That's what I believe anyway. But it's like the Dalai Lama says.....if you hold so tightly to your beliefs that you fail to acknowledge an absolute truth then you haven't really experienced anything at all. I try to keep an open mind. That's all.

 

[dyachei]

Life does that. But I can only speak from what I know now. Doesn't mean it won't change. Each experience we have holds our own truths. That's what I believe anyway. But it's like the Dalai Lama says.....if you hold so tightly to your beliefs that you fail to acknowledge an absolute truth then you haven't really experienced anything at all. I try to keep an open mind. That's all.

do yourself a favor. bookmark this page. then after vet school is over re-read it.

 

[Vetskoldreama]

I think, when it comes to connivence euthanasia, there is debate on what constitutes a "convenience." To me, a convenience would be one in which the non aggressive animal is no longer wanted in the household, but euthanasia is not medically called for.
And no, I don't think I need to be a vet to make this decision. I am a human that has to live with every decision that I make as a person. If I make a decision as a future doctor or as a current assistant that keeps me up at night, then there is a problem. As an assistant, I helped in a euthanasia I did not morally agree with and I kept my mouth shut. I will never do this again as a doctor or as an assistant and I will never work in a place that requires it of me.
Do I condemn other people for making judgment calls? No. But I personally will not be apart of something that I do not morally agree with, no matter my education.
To say that this is a black and white issue is silly. It isn't, like everything in life.

 

[LetItSnow]

Life does that. But I can only speak from what I know now.

Sometimes it's better to say "yanno, I don't actually have personal experience with what I'm talking about, so maybe I shouldn't speak at all."

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I think, when it comes to connivence euthanasia, there is debate on what constitutes a "convenience." To me, a convenience would be one in which the non aggressive animal is no longer wanted in the household, but euthanasia is not medically called for.
And no, I don't think I need to be a vet to make this decision. I am a human that has to live with every decision that I make as a person. If I make a decision as a future doctor or as a current assistant that keeps me up at night, then there is a problem. As an assistant, I helped in a euthanasia I did not morally agree with and I kept my mouth shut. I will never do this again as a doctor or as an assistant and I will never work in a place that requires it of me.
Do I condemn other people for making judgment calls? No. But I personally will not be apart of something that I do not morally agree with, no matter my education.
To say that this is a black and white issue is silly. It isn't, like everything in life.

What happens if your passing grade in a veterinary school class depends on it? For example, a vegan who refuses to participate in slaughter or production medicine.

 

[DVMDream]

I think, when it comes to connivence euthanasia, there is debate on what constitutes a "convenience." To me, a convenience would be one in which the non aggressive animal is no longer wanted in the household, but euthanasia is not medically called for.
And no, I don't think I need to be a vet to make this decision. I am a human that has to live with every decision that I make as a person. If I make a decision as a future doctor or as a current assistant that keeps me up at night, then there is a problem. As an assistant, I helped in a euthanasia I did not morally agree with and I kept my mouth shut. I will never do this again as a doctor or as an assistant and I will never work in a place that requires it of me.
Do I condemn other people for making judgment calls? No. But I personally will not be apart of something that I do not morally agree with, no matter my education.
To say that this is a black and white issue is silly. It isn't, like everything in life.

Good luck finding jobs as an assistant with this attitude. And with that, good luck getting letters of recommendation if you are going to be voicing your opinion on "things you think the vet is doing wrong".

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Sometimes it's better to say "yanno, I don't actually have personal experience with what I'm talking about, so maybe I shouldn't speak at all."

But I have personal experience with this. I have worked in a very high kill shelter, a very high kill practice (where unfortunately people often came just to euthanize their pets....good because we didn't jack our prices up....but not so good all the time.), and I have seen no-kill shelters home hundreds of CH cats, dozens of three or even two legged creatures ... I have seen a snippet of both sides. And I do stand with the idea of no-kill shelters. But that doesn't mean I won't euthanize when circumstances command it. Whether that's safety of the animals involved or lack of support to keep them alive.

 

[dyachei]

To me, a convenience would be one in which the non aggressive animal is no longer wanted in the household, but euthanasia is not medically called for.

we understand your meaning. Please reread cowgirla's response.

 

[cowgirla]

I think, when it comes to connivence euthanasia, there is debate on what constitutes a "convenience." To me, a convenience would be one in which the non aggressive animal is no longer wanted in the household, but euthanasia is not medically called for.
.

You are still over simplifying the issue.

What if it's an older dog with normal bloodwork, but poorly socialized to the point where the dog cowers in fear from every single stranger? Not aggressive but not an easy adoption

What if it's an un-neutered dog who isn't house broken because the owner kept a kennel of hunting dogs? This dog is now retired from hunting due to age but the owner is losing his house. Not an easy adoption.

Older cat with litter box issues. Owner has dealt with for years but is now losing house/going into nursing home/dying of cancer. Sure the cat might do better in a new home. Maybe the owner doesn't want to chance her beloved pet being turfed from home to home. Not an easy adoption. Not my decision to make.

 

[Minnerbelle]

You remind me of myself when I was 17-21 freshly passionate about the evils of factory farming. Morally, I couldn't understand why any ethical human being could be told about it and continue to eat meat. I felt like it was one of those issues where I must have been a thinker and transcended individual that was ahead of my time. That 'factory farming' was the next apartheid, the next slavery, the next holocaust. That one day people will realize how morally unacceptable it is, and in hundreds of years we would be looking back on the meat eating centuries and see the horrors in how barbaric it was. It was good to have a moral conviction. And I had a strong one. I had a logical argument against anything anyone could say to defend 'factory farming.' Boy, it turns out that I would learn over the next few years how much I didn't even know to even have the opinion that I did. Much of the things you are saying now were exactly things I said back then.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Good luck finding jobs as an assistant with this attitude. And with that, good luck getting letters of recommendation if you are going to be voicing your opinion on "things you think the vet is doing wrong".

I think the key is to be polite, respectful, and perhaps not do it so often it affects the practice atmosphere. I have seen plenty of offices with people who are vocal. They are just professional about it.

 

[Vetskoldreama]

Good luck finding jobs as an assistant with this attitude. And with that, good luck getting letters of recommendation if you are going to be voicing your opinion on "things you think the vet is doing wrong".

Thanks for both votes of confidence in me. I have been a full time assistant for the past three years and I already have my letters of recommendation for my applications, and I have actually had this conversation with one of my mentors who wrote me a letter of recommendation.

But thank you for wishing me the best. I wish you all the best too. And I hope you find the area of veterinary medicine you most desire, because I doubt it will coincide with where I will be working.

 

[DVMDream]

But I have personal experience with this. I have worked in a very high kill shelter, a very high kill practice (where unfortunately people often came just to euthanize their pets....good because we didn't jack our prices up....but not so good all the time.), and I have seen no-kill shelters home hundreds of CH cats, dozens of three or even two legged creatures ... I have seen a snippet of both sides. And I do stand with the idea of no-kill shelters. But that doesn't mean I won't euthanize when circumstances command it. Whether that's safety of the animals involved or lack of support to keep them alive.

So, someone comes to me as a vet with an animal they wish to be euthanized... we will say it is a healthy 8 year old pit bull terrier... I tell them no, I won't euthanize.

Now what do they do? Maybe they can't afford the animal anymore and don't want to admit it. Maybe they feel bad dumping it at a shelter and having it euthanized is their way of being humane to an animal they can no longer care for?

Maybe they are a person who will kill the animal by their own means. OR they will just dump it at a shelter... and most likely it will be a "kill" shelter (damn I hate people who use these titles, they don't understand the difference. hint: "no-kill" is not actually "no-kill")... anyway.. now all that my action has done of refusing to euthanize that animal is caused it to be either:
1. Harmed by the owner or
2. Dumped at a shelter where it will get filtered through a system of barking dogs, strange smells, and eventually be evaluated, unfortunately.. the outcome is the same... the dog is euthanized.

All I did was pass the buck off to another veterinarian. Why should it be the shelter vet to have to shoulder all of these? I do think those of us in private practice need to be aware of these things and be willing to help out and provide assistance when possible. No one wants to euthanize a "healthy" animal but sometimes, it just really is necessary.

 

[Minnerbelle]

But I have personal experience with this. I have worked in a very high kill shelter, a very high kill practice (where unfortunately people often came just to euthanize their pets....good because we didn't jack our prices up....but not so good all the time.), and I have seen no-kill shelters home hundreds of CH cats, dozens of three or even two legged creatures ... I have seen a snippet of both sides. And I do stand with the idea of no-kill shelters. But that doesn't mean I won't euthanize when circumstances command it. Whether that's safety of the animals involved or lack of support to keep them alive.

But you were not a veterinarian.

I have worked for many types of shelters, and I really dislike no-kill shelters. Many shelter vets feel the same.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You remind me of myself when I was 17-21 freshly passionate about the evils of factory farming. Morally, I couldn't understand why any ethical human being could be told about it and continue to eat meat. I felt like it was one of those issues where I must have been a thinker and transcended individual that was ahead of my time. That 'factory farming' was the next apartheid, the next slavery, the next holocaust. That one day people will realize how morally unacceptable it is, and in hundreds of years we would be looking back on the meat eating centuries and see the horrors in how barbaric it was. It was good to have a moral conviction. And I had a strong one. I had a logical argument against anything anyone could say to defend 'factory farming.' Boy, it turns out that I would learn over the next few years how much I didn't even know to even have the opinion that I did. Much of the things you are saying now were exactly things I said back then.

Seriously. 15 year old me was about to join the PETA street team.

Not everyone realizes that a meat farmer cares more about his livestock than anyone else could. That alone changed my perspective on the industry. Learning things is fun.

 

[Jess Monster]

What if the owner brings it in to be euthanized, refuses to surrender the animal to be adopted out by you/your staff or a shelter, and informs you that if you don't euthanize said healthy animal they will take it home and dispose of it in an undesirable fashion?

I don't usually share my opinions on issues like this, but, if a client comes in and threatens to harm an animal if I don't do X, I will firmly tell that client "No." Then I will intimate my feelings and my intentions, namely, that I will be notifying the proper authorities of what this person has threatened to do and requesting a welfare check for that animal. No veterinarian should be intimidated into any medical action he/she is uncomfortable with by a person threatening to harm an animal. Ever.

I'm not against convenience euthanasia, but I'm very much against manipulative clients who make threats and try to intimidate veterinarians and their staff.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

So, someone comes to me as a vet with an animal they wish to be euthanized... we will say it is a healthy 8 year old pit bull terrier... I tell them no, I won't euthanize.

Now what do they do? Maybe they can't afford the animal anymore and don't want to admit it. Maybe they feel bad dumping it at a shelter and having it euthanized is their way of being humane to an animal they can no longer care for?

Maybe they are a person who will kill the animal by their own means. OR they will just dump it at a shelter... and most likely it will be a "kill" shelter (damn I hate people who use these titles, they don't understand the difference. hint: "no-kill" is not actually "no-kill")... anyway.. now all that my action has done of refusing to euthanize that animal is caused it to be either:
1. Harmed by the owner or
2. Dumped at a shelter where it will get filtered through a system of barking dogs, strange smells, and eventually be evaluated, unfortunately.. the outcome is the same... the dog is euthanized.

All I did was pass the buck off to another veterinarian. Why should it be the shelter vet to have to shoulder all of these? I do think those of us in private practice need to be aware of these things and be willing to help out and provide assistance when possible. No one wants to euthanize a "healthy" animal but sometimes, it just really is necessary.

Whoa once again. Read my old posts. There are cases I will euthanize. I would personally hand that one off to the bully breed rescue in my area (or offer to take the animal into my own bully breed rescue). But when not everybody has the same set of circumstances to deal with its really hard to say yes do this no don't do that. If I feel the dog is in danger...sure go ahead. But not all shelters are loud, smelly, awful places. Sometimes it's ok to say "let's try and see where this goes and reevaluate"

 

[CalliopeDVM]

No veterinarian should be intimidated into any medical action he/she is uncomfortable with by a person threatening to harm an animal. Ever.

I'm not against convenience euthanasia, but I'm very much against manipulative clients who make threats and try to intimidate veterinarians and their staff.

I agree - don't be blackmailed by your clients into doing something you don't want to do. That also goes for when clients try to emotionally blackmail you over medications, etc (the dog will die unless you give me a refill, etc)

 

[DVMDream]

Thanks for both votes of confidence in me. I have been a full time assistant for the past three years and I already have my letters of recommendation for my applications, and I have actually had this conversation with one of my mentors who wrote me a letter of recommendation.

But thank you for wishing me the best. I wish you all the best too. And I hope you find the area of veterinary medicine you most desire, because I doubt it will coincide with where I will be working.

Then you should know by now as an assistant that you often do not know or do not get the full story of what the veterinarian actually treating the patient does know or does receive. If you have not realized this, it is time you learn this.

This is coming from someone who spent 7 years as an assistant and there were many times I did not know about that phone call the vet had with this client or that in depth conversation they had when I was busy helping get blood from another patient or whatever.

Please understand there is much, much, much more that occurs between a client and the vet than you probably realize and it is still ultimately the vet's responsibility and license at work there, not yours.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

But you were not a veterinarian.

I have worked for many types of shelters, and I really dislike no-kill shelters. Many shelter vets feel the same.

No I wasn't. Truth enough. But I know plenty of vets who do love no-kill. I think there's a very fine balance in a no-kill shelter that's often hard to walk.

And it's true no-kill doesn't mean no euthanasia ever. It means trying your hardest to save that cat who is for no apparent reason starving himself to death. It's staying up all night with three day old kittens with severe URIs to force feed them. It's taking that dog who was hit by a car and pulling the 500 bucks for the amputation out of thin air (our economy sucks).

There's so much to no-kill I love. And I won't implement it all. That would be silly. But I find it to be a good case by case way to deal with things as a general rule. Not 100% of the time. Once again that's true.

 

[DVMDream]

Whoa once again. Read my old posts. There are cases I will euthanize. I would personally hand that one off to the bully breed rescue in my area (or offer to take the animal into my own bully breed rescue). But when not everybody has the same set of circumstances to deal with its really hard to say yes do this no don't do that. If I feel the dog is in danger...sure go ahead. But not all shelters are loud, smelly, awful places. Sometimes it's ok to say "let's try and see where this goes and reevaluate"

I didn't say all shelters are "loud, smelly, awful places"....

But to a dog... a shelter is loud and it does have strange smells (even if it is clean)

And to a dog.. it is stressful....

Even the best of shelters hits all three of the above.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

I agree - don't be blackmailed by your clients into doing something you don't want to do. That also goes for when clients try to emotionally blackmail you over medications, etc (the dog will die unless you give me a refill, etc)

Oh god. We have asked so many "friends of the doctor" to leave over that type of thing.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Whoa once again. Read my old posts. There are cases I will euthanize. I would personally hand that one off to the bully breed rescue in my area (or offer to take the animal into my own bully breed rescue). But when not everybody has the same set of circumstances to deal with its really hard to say yes do this no don't do that. If I feel the dog is in danger...sure go ahead. But not all shelters are loud, smelly, awful places. Sometimes it's ok to say "let's try and see where this goes and reevaluate"

Based off of my experience, the bolded statement above raises a red flag to me. Behavior like that can escalate into a hoarding situation very quickly. Now, I'm not saying you're a hoarder/will become one or anything like that. I will say that I've heard a particular client express similar sentiments to yours and she has had over 40 animals in her house at times (and the authorities are regularly on her case, and her house is probably unfit for living in). That's 40 animals in hers, plus however many she can foster out.

Veterinary medicine will never be perfect. That doesn't mean that we should be euthanizing left and right, but I think it's important to grasp the fact that we cannot save every single animal. We can't. Offering to adopt a client's pet can be a slippery slope, whether you intend to adopt it out yourself or not.

 

[DVMDream]

Whoa once again. Read my old posts. There are cases I will euthanize. I would personally hand that one off to the bully breed rescue in my area (or offer to take the animal into my own bully breed rescue). But when not everybody has the same set of circumstances to deal with its really hard to say yes do this no don't do that. If I feel the dog is in danger...sure go ahead. But not all shelters are loud, smelly, awful places. Sometimes it's ok to say "let's try and see where this goes and reevaluate"

And what if that bully breed rescue is at capacity? Or what if you don't have these "bully breed" rescues around?

What if it doesn't matter if you have 23434234 rescues available to you for a dog or cat? What if the owner simply does not or can not stand the thought of his/her pet being rehomed?

Re-homing is not right for every situation and circumstance. It is being able to recognize this and to not judge when you don't have all of the information that is vital.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

I didn't say all shelters are "loud, smelly, awful places"....

But to a dog... a shelter is loud and it does have strange smells (even if it is clean)

And to a dog.. it is stressful....

Even the best of shelters hits all three of the above.

Or the best shelters may be foster networks. Those are nifty.

Yes they can be stressful. But taking an animal to the vet is stressful. Doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea or a viable option.

If you have a very terrified dog....yes that may be one I would euthanize. Because nobody will see the great dog in that cage....they will see the terrified lump of lifelessness who may occasionally snap or "behave badly".

It's all about situations.

 

[Minnerbelle]

And it's true no-kill doesn't mean no euthanasia ever. It means trying your hardest to save that cat who is for no apparent reason starving himself to death. It's staying up all night with three day old kittens with severe URIs to force feed them. It's taking that dog who was hit by a car and pulling the 500 bucks for the amputation out of thin air (our economy sucks).

There's so much to no-kill I love. And I won't implement it all.

I have to say, this tells me that you are one confused individual.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

Based off of my experience, the bolded statement above raises a red flag to me. Behavior like that can escalate into a hoarding situation very quickly. Now, I'm not saying you're a hoarder/will become one or anything like that. I will say that I've heard a particular client express similar sentiments to yours and she has had over 40 animals in her house at times (and the authorities are regularly on her case, and her house is probably unfit for living in). That's 40 animals in hers, plus however many she can foster out.

Veterinary medicine will never be perfect. That doesn't mean that we should be euthanizing left and right, but I think it's important to grasp the fact that we cannot save every single animal. We can't. Offering to adopt a client's pet can be a slippery slope, whether you intend to adopt it out yourself or not.

I wouldn't adopt the dog. I assure you my pack will be quite full on its own. And my SO will do a great job pulling me back.

I plan to have shelter that holds maybe 5 to 10 dogs at a time at the clinic or perhaps at the farm in a designated insulated barn.

If they are at capacity. ....well doesn't that kind of negate them as an option? Yea. Go ahead an euthanize. I'm saying just try for five minutes first.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Or the best shelters may be foster networks. Those are nifty.

Yes they can be stressful. But taking an animal to the vet is stressful. Doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea or a viable option.

If you have a very terrified dog....yes that may be one I would euthanize. Because nobody will see the great dog in that cage....they will see the terrified lump of lifelessness who may occasionally snap or "behave badly".

It's all about situations.

An hour or two at the vet vs. the months that some pets sit in these shelters/rescues?

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

And what if that bully breed rescue is at capacity? Or what if you don't have these "bully breed" rescues around?

What if it doesn't matter if you have 23434234 rescues available to you for a dog or cat? What if the owner simply does not or can not stand the thought of his/her pet being rehomed?

Re-homing is not right for every situation and circumstance. It is being able to recognize this and to not judge when you don't have all of the information that is vital.

See previous posts. I agree.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

I have to say, this tells me that you are one confused individual.

That is slightly rude. But that's your opinion. I don't know you nor do you know me.

 

[Cephal0pod]

I don't usually share my opinions on issues like this, but, if a client comes in and threatens to harm an animal if I don't do X, I will firmly tell that client "No." Then I will intimate my feelings and my intentions, namely, that I will be notifying the proper authorities of what this person has threatened to do and requesting a welfare check for that animal. No veterinarian should be intimidated into any medical action he/she is uncomfortable with by a person threatening to harm an animal. Ever.

I'm not against convenience euthanasia, but I'm very much against manipulative clients who make threats and try to intimidate veterinarians and their staff.

Thanks for sharing that, that makes complete sense.

 

[Kittens&Camelids]

This is becoming such an attacking thread. You may all believe what you want. And I will believe what I want. It's clear that this thread has been slightly derailed and I am done with this back and forth madness.

We are all going into the same field. We should be respectful and nurturing towards each other.....not this.

 

[WildZoo]

If they are at capacity. ....well doesn't that kind of negate them as an option? Yea. Go ahead an euthanize. I'm saying just try for five minutes first.

More anecdotes, but I think it's pretty rare for any vet to say "Ok I'll just euthanize this healthy animal immediately" without discussing other options with the owner first.

 

[dyachei]

This is becoming such an attacking thread. You may all believe what you want. And I will believe what I want. It's clear that this thread has been slightly derailed and I am done with this back and forth madness.

We are all going into the same field. We should be respectful and nurturing towards each other.....not this.

the funny part is that you mostly agree but keep "arguing".

FWIW, even asking them to do welfare checks may not do a darn thing in certain areas. And animals are still considered property by law.

 

[DVMDream]

No I wasn't. Truth enough. But I know plenty of vets who do love no-kill. I think there's a very fine balance in a no-kill shelter that's often hard to walk.

And it's true no-kill doesn't mean no euthanasia ever. It means trying your hardest to save that cat who is for no apparent reason starving himself to death. It's staying up all night with three day old kittens with severe URIs to force feed them. It's taking that dog who was hit by a car and pulling the 500 bucks for the amputation out of thin air (our economy sucks).

There's so much to no-kill I love. And I won't implement it all. That would be silly. But I find it to be a good case by case way to deal with things as a general rule. Not 100% of the time. Once again that's true.

If a cat in a shelter is really "starving himself to death" he should probably be euthanized as this may be the most humane option.

Shelter medicine can be quite a bit like production medicine in that resources need to be allocated and occasionally that means certain animals get euthanized over others. A cat that is starving itself to death is not a simple or cheap fix depending upon what is causing it to starve itself. And if it is stress causing that, well, that isn't something that can be adequately addressed in a shelter setting.

Kittens with ringworm, puppies with pavo or distemper, they barely make it into the building.

It sucks, it is sad, but it is necessary.