Things that make a bad vet

[Mad Jack]

My kitten was sleeping right in front of the door today, and when I opened it I hit him in the face with it and stepped on his tail as he tried to run away. I then proceeded to cuddle him for 5 minutes and repeatedly tell him how sorry I was.. Does that count as punting?

Not even close

It's true though. Gandalf still has a foot obsession. He's just too big to punt now. But when he was a baby...

My gf's cats are weird about getting scared by sudden movements. Move too quickly and they scatter everywhere. Except everywhere happens to be directly in front of you if you're the fast moving thing, so you unintentionally end up kicking cats all over the apartment because wtf cats, why are you jumping in front of my feet?

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[WildZoo]

Not even close

My gf's cats are weird about getting scared by sudden movements. Move too quickly and they scatter everywhere. Except everywhere happens to be directly in front of you if you're the fast moving thing, so you unintentionally end up kicking cats all over the apartment because wtf cats, why are you jumping in front of my feet?

They're like the squirrels that freeze on one side of the road, where they were safe, and then run back to the other side at just the right speed to get hit by the oncoming car

 

[TerraVet]

Hmm. I would definitely add "lack of self-control" to the list of things that make a bad vet. Flinging things across the room in a screaming fit of rage? Less than an ideal quality. Also, laziness. Punting cases onto other vets who are just, if not more, busy than said vet because said vet doesn't want to bother with cases. Very different from referring cases to more experienced vets, btw. Lastly, and this is just a personal pet peeve, BAD HAND WRITING. I don't like playing "what word does this look like to you?" when the vet isn't around.

 

[Starry-chan]

Listen to this story a RN told me about when she was a vet tech.

She worked at this clinic with two vets, a husband and wife. They frequently would get into screaming matches that you could hear from the waiting room. They'd fling things across the room without even looking at what person or animal is in its trajectory.

The husband vet was generally a nice guy, but she would treat him like trash and then he'd get mad. You never knew what was gonna set her off. Like every tech in the clinic was afraid of her.

Well, she had like 7 Great Danes that she hadn't trained and they were always peeing in her house and chewing stuff up. One day she came into work and she was screaming at everybody even more than usual. Everybody soon found out that she was mad because her husband had put all her stuff out on the front lawn. He said it was him or the dogs.

Wow.....that was the drama clinic.

 

[dyachei]

Hmm. I would definitely add "lack of self-control" to the list of things that make a bad vet. Flinging things across the room in a screaming fit of rage? Less than an ideal quality. Also, laziness. Punting cases onto other vets who are just, if not more, busy than said vet because said vet doesn't want to bother with cases. Very different from referring cases to more experienced vets, btw. Lastly, and this is just a personal pet peeve, BAD HAND WRITING. I don't like playing "what word does this look like to you?" when the vet isn't around.

How do you know it's laziness and not insecurity that they won't be able to treat the case? There's a lot of internal dialogue (at least for me) when I ask someone else to see a case. I think we are jumping to conclusions a little bit. So I guess I want to know how you know it's just because they don't want to bother with a case?

The first is unacceptable as a human being, not just as a vet.

 

[Coquette22]

Lastly, and this is just a personal pet peeve, BAD HAND WRITING. I don't like playing "what word does this look like to you?" when the vet isn't around.

And this is why I work in a clinic with computerized records. I have totally lousy hand writing, especially if I'm rushed. But I can type fast.

 

[LetItSnow]

And this is why I work in a clinic with computerized records. I have totally lousy hand writing, especially if I'm rushed. But I can type fast.

Yeah. I get pretty disgusted when some RDVM fax's me over their printed records and not a single person in my hospital can decipher them.

C'mon people. If it's worth writing down as part of your legal medical record, it needs to be legible. I get that we're all busy. But you're just wasting your time - and not helping your patient - if your record can't be read.

 

[Starry-chan]

C'mon people. If it's worth writing down as part of your legal medical record, it needs to be legible. I get that we're all busy. But you're just wasting your time - and not helping your patient - if your record can't be read.

Amen.

 

[mpc2wv]

I used to think I would never be ok with euthanizing a healthy animal, but now I know there are times when I believe it's not only ok, but the right thing to do. I sincerely hope that anyone that ends up with a veterinary degree comes to the same conclusion.

I'm just wondering how you came to this conclusion, because it's hard for me feel like that might ever be the right thing to do. I know there must be certain situations, but, if you don't mind my asking, what were the experiences that influenced your opinion?

 

[Skimble]

I'm just wondering how you came to this conclusion, because it's hard for me feel like that might ever be the right thing to do. I know there must be certain situations, but, if you don't mind my asking, what were the experiences that influenced your opinion?

This is just one example, but there are others. One day a woman walked in the door with a long line of sutures below her bottom lip and another semicircle of sutures on the side of her face. Her dog had literally bitten her bottom lip almost completely off and then came back and bit her in the side of the face. The attack was completely unprovoked, she was lying on her couch. The dog had a history of unprovoked aggression ever since they got it at 8wks old (rescued from a drug house), with each attack becoming more severe. She had tried various trainers & meds and the dog didn't improve at all. She also had a child in the house. No rescue was going to take that dog, and she was a liability for anyone to own. It was sad because when she was nice, she was super sweet, but you never knew when she was going to turn. Because of the bite we needed to quarantine/board the dog for 10 days prior to euthanizing and we all saw how she would go from sweet nice normal dog, to vicious in an instant with no provocation.

Like many others have said, it's really not black and white. You have to look at everything case by case. If someone brings in their healthy cat and says they want it euthanized because they don't want it anymore, you have a few options you could offer first; if you are able you can foster it and find it a new home or you can offer to take it to a rescue yourself. If neither of those options are possible or the owner declines them, then you have to think what will happen if you don't euthanize the cat? Maybe they will just keep trying different vets until they find one that will, or maybe they will take the cat home, place it in a garbage bag and beat it to death with a crowbar. People do that kind of stuff and often get away with it. As a vet that can offer that animal humane euthanasia, it's not the wrong thing to do.

I would definitely have a hard time deciding with the latter situation, and I would hope the person would be reasonable enough to consider surrendering a pet to a rescue to give it a chance, but not all people are reasonable. Like this one guy who wanted his fully vaccinate, 100% indoor cat euthanized and tested for rabies because it lightly scratched him on the leg one time. I have connections with a cat rescue and they agreed to quarantine the cat for 10 days and then attempt to adopt it out or possibly be kept by one of the rescue volunteers. The owner refused the offer stating that even though it was only one scratch in 5 years, he felt the cat was a liability and didn't feel right allowing it to be adopted out. The practice owner refused to do the euthanasia and I'm sure this guy just went somewhere else to have it done, but the doctor did what he felt was best in that particular situation.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

This is just one example, but there are others. One day a woman walked in the door with a long line of sutures below her bottom lip and another semicircle of sutures on the side of her face. Her dog had literally bitten her bottom lip almost completely off and then came back and bit her in the side of the face. The attack was completely unprovoked, she was lying on her couch. The dog had a history of unprovoked aggression ever since they got it at 8wks old (rescued from a drug house), with each attack becoming more severe. She had tried various trainers & meds and the dog didn't improve at all. She also had a child in the house. No rescue was going to take that dog, and she was a liability for anyone to own. It was sad because when she was nice, she was super sweet, but you never knew when she was going to turn. Because of the bite we needed to quarantine/board the dog for 10 days prior to euthanizing and we all saw how she would go from sweet nice normal dog, to vicious in an instant with no provocation.

Like many others have said, it's really not black and white. You have to look at everything case by case. If someone brings in their healthy cat and says they want it euthanized because they don't want it anymore, you have a few options you could offer first; if you are able you can foster it and find it a new home or you can offer to take it to a rescue yourself. If neither of those options are possible or the owner declines them, then you have to think what will happen if you don't euthanize the cat? Maybe they will just keep trying different vets until they find one that will, or maybe they will take the cat home, place it in a garbage bag and beat it to death with a crowbar. People do that kind of stuff and often get away with it. As a vet that can offer that animal humane euthanasia, it's not the wrong thing to do.

I would definitely have a hard time deciding with the latter situation, and I would hope the person would be reasonable enough to consider surrendering a pet to a rescue to give it a chance, but not all people are reasonable. Like this one guy who wanted his fully vaccinate, 100% indoor cat euthanized and tested for rabies because it lightly scratched him on the leg one time. I have connections with a cat rescue and they agreed to quarantine the cat for 10 days and then attempt to adopt it out or possibly be kept by one of the rescue volunteers. The owner refused the offer stating that even though it was only one scratch in 5 years, he felt the cat was a liability and didn't feel right allowing it to be adopted out. The practice owner refused to do the euthanasia and I'm sure this guy just went somewhere else to have it done, but the doctor did what he felt was best in that particular situation.

I'm going to point out that a dog with that kind of aggression/behavior problems is not considered a 'healthy' animal.

Also, there are also a lot of details that clients won't give you as to why they want a seemingly healthy animal euthanized (referring to the second two situations). Those reasons might not justify the decision in your eyes, but to them, they feel it's right. Then there are the cases where the owner really is just over having a pet and wants the thing gone. It can be hard to sift through the facts, if you even get them all.

 

[VetToBe585]

We have a particular vet who gets on my nerves at our practice due to a couple of things: first, her handwriting is HORRIFIC (even she cannot read it), so she has taken to typing in her notes and just writing "see computer notes" in the chart. Which is nice of her in a way, but also a huge pain in the butt for everyone else because we are not paperless (or anywhere close to becoming so) and we have to go back in the computer each time she has ever seen anyone to get her notes from the day. It annoys every other doctor and every tech, but I understand WHY she does it. Also, she is incredibly slow seeing rooms and avoids any responsibility if she possibly can. She won't go into a room unless someone asks her to (which in our practice, doctors can see a board where they are directed as to which room is next so they don't need to ask and can be self-starters). She will sit on the computer and type up her charts until someone stops her while other doctors are seeing 3-4 times as many rooms in a day. They all write their charts up afterward, helping move our busy practice along. So she sticks out like a sore thumb and infuriates the vets that do work hard. Third, she is a pretty awful practitioner. It would be one thing if she was great with patients, healed animals like nobody's business, but she seems to be pretty terrible. She has no regard for cost (which again, our practice is in a low-cost area, where diagnostics are generally taken stepwise to avoid unnecessary financial burden for people who cannot afford it in the first place), and usually ends up with several hospitalized animals who should have been euthanized a week prior with over $2,000 bills for animals that don't get better. She doses medications (for surgery mostly) incorrectly and we constantly have to go back and ask where she's getting her numbers from, and mostly she GOOGLES IT (her words). No one on staff feels comfortable with her treating their pet for anything and I have a hard time understanding how it is she is still employed.

I know there are two sides to every story and I'm sure there are reasons for the way she is, but holy moly it is frustrating to work with.

So in conclusion: just try to have nice-ish handwriting, pull your weight, and try to recognize when you are prolonging suffering.

 

[DVMDream]

We have a particular vet who gets on my nerves at our practice due to a couple of things: first, her handwriting is HORRIFIC (even she cannot read it), so she has taken to typing in her notes and just writing "see computer notes" in the chart. Which is nice of her in a way, but also a huge pain in the butt for everyone else because we are not paperless (or anywhere close to becoming so) and we have to go back in the computer each time she has ever seen anyone to get her notes from the day. It annoys every other doctor and every tech, but I understand WHY she does it. Also, she is incredibly slow seeing rooms and avoids any responsibility if she possibly can. She won't go into a room unless someone asks her to (which in our practice, doctors can see a board where they are directed as to which room is next so they don't need to ask and can be self-starters). She will sit on the computer and type up her charts until someone stops her while other doctors are seeing 3-4 times as many rooms in a day. They all write their charts up afterward, helping move our busy practice along. So she sticks out like a sore thumb and infuriates the vets that do work hard. Third, she is a pretty awful practitioner. It would be one thing if she was great with patients, healed animals like nobody's business, but she seems to be pretty terrible. She has no regard for cost (which again, our practice is in a low-cost area, where diagnostics are generally taken stepwise to avoid unnecessary financial burden for people who cannot afford it in the first place), and usually ends up with several hospitalized animals who should have been euthanized a week prior with over $2,000 bills for animals that don't get better. She doses medications (for surgery mostly) incorrectly and we constantly have to go back and ask where she's getting her numbers from, and mostly she GOOGLES IT (her words). No one on staff feels comfortable with her treating their pet for anything and I have a hard time understanding how it is she is still employed.

I know there are two sides to every story and I'm sure there are reasons for the way she is, but holy moly it is frustrating to work with.

So in conclusion: just try to have nice-ish handwriting, pull your weight, and try to recognize when you are prolonging suffering.

You've never seen an internal medicine service, have you? Not that the bolded is all that happens on internal med, but there are a decent number of animals just like that. The difference is that, usually it is the owners who are "prolonging the suffering" not the vets. The vets explain the risks, diagnostics, chances of recovery, etc, etc and it seems that sometimes even with the most grave of prognoses.. owners still want to try. You can't just say, "too bad your pet is going to die, therefore I am not trying." You still have to try and give owners the option. There is sometimes just no getting through to some people that their pet is suffering and there are some people that don't believe in euthanizing a pet.

 

[dyachei]

Also, she is incredibly slow seeing rooms and avoids any responsibility if she possibly can. She won't go into a room unless someone asks her to

I have an easy solution for this - have someone talk to her about it and let her know that notes can wait until the end of the day. My guess is, everyone gripes about it and no one does a damn thing about it because it's easier to just complain about how she doesn't fit in. When talking to her about what is needed may be all it takes. Or maybe she gets lost in her thoughts doing her notes and needs a reminder. It never hurts to try and think through someone elses thought process

 

[Shreddr22]

They're like the squirrels that freeze on one side of the road, where they were safe, and then run back to the other side at just the right speed to get hit by the oncoming car

Mine are exactly like this... they're perfectly tame but when I walk into my narrow kitchen quickly at least three at a time charge out like their lives have been severely threatened, all claws out and using my bare feet as launchpads to safety. It hurts so much and it makes me so mad for a split second.

 

[cowgirla]

Stepping on your own puppy in front of a waiting room full of clients. Whoopsies.

 

[FeenyFee]

I have an easy solution for this - have someone talk to her about it and let her know that notes can wait until the end of the day. My guess is, everyone gripes about it and no one does a damn thing about it because it's easier to just complain about how she doesn't fit in. When talking to her about what is needed may be all it takes. Or maybe she gets lost in her thoughts doing her notes and needs a reminder. It never hurts to try and think through someone elses thought process

Dyachei, you seem like a really nice vet to work for!

 

[dyachei]

Dyachei, you seem like a really nice vet to work for!

thanks. I don't think I am. But I don't tolerate that kind of thing

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Dyachei, you seem like a really nice vet to work for!

She's a Cylon. She can't be trusted.

 

[dyachei]

She's a Cylon. She can't be trusted.

stop telling everyone!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

stop telling everyone!

Shut up toaster.

 

[dyachei]

Shut up toaster.

To be fair...I have very little hardware. More zombie parts. Apparently crappy joints are part of what makes a bad vet just ask my associate who has had to cover for me. AGAIN

 

[bluenose]

I don't know if this really makes you a "bad vet" but I've definitely experienced a couple who are very stand off-ish to pre-vet hopefuls and seem annoyed if you ask them questions about where they went to school, their experiences, etc. Maybe they just felt "too busy" but it just felt disheartening because I was like oh god I must be such an annoyance to them but then I kept thinking like they were in my position not that long ago so I thought they would understand and maybe even want to help? Thankfully since then I have had way more positive interactions with vets who were more than happy to talk to me about these things and even tried to actively include me more!

 

[dyachei]

I don't know if this really makes you a "bad vet" but I've definitely experienced a couple who are very stand off-ish to pre-vet hopefuls and seem annoyed if you ask them questions about where they went to school, their experiences, etc. Maybe they just felt "too busy" but it just felt disheartening because I was like oh god I must be such an annoyance to them but then I kept thinking like they were in my position not that long ago so I thought they would understand and maybe even want to help? Thankfully since then I have had way more positive interactions with vets who were more than happy to talk to me about these things and even tried to actively include me more!

Maybe it has nothing to do with the Pre vet and everything to do with their workload, confidence, work life balance, etc

 

[bluenose]

Maybe it has nothing to do with the Pre vet and everything to do with their workload, confidence, work life balance, etc

Yea I'm sure you're right. It did seem like an overall vibe in certain clinics and not in others

 

[LyraGardenia]

She doses medications (for surgery mostly) incorrectly and we constantly have to go back and ask where she's getting her numbers from, and mostly she GOOGLES IT (her words).

Googling information as a vet is way more common than you may realize, and not necessarily a bad thing. For something a critical as drug dosages that would make me a bit leery, considering how easy it is to look it up in Plumb's or some other book, but the vets I work with often step out of the exam room to Google something if a client has a question about a product they've never heard of, or a condition they don't see all the time. It's often much faster and easier than sifting through a book for the answer.

 

[LetItSnow]

She doses medications (for surgery mostly) incorrectly and we constantly have to go back and ask where she's getting her numbers from, and mostly she GOOGLES IT (her words).

OH MY GOD NO! Not THAT!

What's wrong with googling it? We hate on clients doing it because they don't have the training to evaluate what they read on some website and they fall for stupid crap or convince themselves that their dog has some disease that's been seen once ever in the history of medicine. But we do training, and should be able to critically evaluate what we read. I google crap all the time ...

Guess I'm a "bad vet." Ah well.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I "VIN" things all the time, which is what I say to my experienced techs and other doctors. But to everyone else (not clients), I'll tell them I'm googling it.

Where else should vets get their drug dosages? Old hard copies of formularies that are outdated? Only a very small percentage of clinics have the latest copy of plumbs. I've seen some super old ones lying around in some clinics.

 

[LyraGardenia]

I "VIN" things all the time, which is what I say to my experienced techs and other doctors. But to everyone else (not clients), I'll tell them I'm googling it.

Where else should vets get their drug dosages? Old hard copies of formularies that are outdated? Only a very small percentage of clinics have the latest copy of plumbs. I've seen some super old ones lying around in some clinics.

Out of curiosity, does Plumb's typically change a lot from one edition to the next? I'm not disagreeing with you, honestly I was second-guessing myself in my previous post because no one else had said anything about that part of VetToBe's post. I've personally never had a reason to look up a drug dosage (the doctors always calculate dosages where I work).

 

[DVMDream]

OH MY GOD NO! Not THAT!

What's wrong with googling it? We hate on clients doing it because they don't have the training to evaluate what they read on some website and they fall for stupid crap or convince themselves that their dog has some disease that's been seen once ever in the history of medicine. But we do training, and should be able to critically evaluate what we read. I google crap all the time ...

Guess I'm a "bad vet." Ah well.

Google is my friend to find quick things without having to dig through notes or text books.

What parts of the coag cascade do PT and PTT test again.... quick Google. What is a stress leukogram, again... Google. Etc, etc.

Guess I'm a horrible almost vet.

 

[Foxhunter]

Maybe it has nothing to do with the Pre vet and everything to do with their workload, confidence, work life balance, etc

stop being so rational

 

[dyachei]

Out of curiosity, does Plumb's typically change a lot from one edition to the next? I'm not disagreeing with you, honestly I was second-guessing myself in my previous post because no one else had said anything about that part of VetToBe's post. I've personally never had a reason to look up a drug dosage (the doctors always calculate dosages where I work).

usually it's a few medications that are changed. But it's always better to be up to date.

 

[dyachei]

stop being so rational

i see. so being rational makes me a bad vet

 

[Foxhunter]

i see. so being rational makes me a bad vet

obviously...

 

[Foxhunter]

I accidentally broke a cat's uterus during a spay. am I going to be a bad vet?

 

[dyachei]

I accidentally broke a cat's uterus during a spay. am I going to be a bad vet?

I mean, duh...

 

[Foxhunter]

I love that this whole thread is essentially SDN's version of Godwin's Law

 

[Foxhunter]

I mean, duh...

The cat lived. But I had to extend the incision 1.5 cm.

My next spay went splendidly though. I was so paranoid.

 

[dyachei]

The cat lived. But I had to extend the incision 1.5 cm.

My next spay went splendidly though. I was so paranoid.

omg! extending an incision? terrible vet

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

omg! extending an incision? terrible vet

I had it drilled into me that while none of us will judge you (much) for extending your incision to make sure your patient was safe, that owner is going to go home and compare her cat's belly to someone else's and decide, if the incision is longer, that yes, you are the weakest link.

That or if the shave job on the belly is crooked or the tattoo ink is crooked or curved or... anything even slightly less than perfection ever

 

[dyachei]

I had it drilled into me that while none of us will judge you (much) for extending your incision to make sure your patient was safe, that owner is going to go home and compare her cat's belly to someone else's and decide, if the incision is longer, that yes, you are the weakest link.

That or if the shave job on the belly is crooked or the tattoo ink is crooked or curved or... anything even slightly less than perfection ever

it's almost like you should talk to the owner about why it is longer.

 

[hazelmoo]

I had it drilled into me that while none of us will judge you (much) for extending your incision to make sure your patient was safe, that owner is going to go home and compare her cat's belly to someone else's and decide, if the incision is longer, that yes, you are the weakest link.

That or if the shave job on the belly is crooked or the tattoo ink is crooked or curved or... anything even slightly less than perfection ever

I've never worked in a vet that did tattooing, but when my male dog Santiago was neutered, they gave him a blue tattoo line right next to his penis. I was so upset that they didn't tell me they were going to do it (and I didn't know vets normally tattooed males), because I would have petitioned for something cool like a smiley face or heart or something... Lol

 

[LetItSnow]

(and I didn't know vets normally tattooed males)

Most don't since it's ... well ... fairly obvious if a male is neutered. Some of us (me included) do it just because there's always the off chance someone gets some idea in their head that it's a cryptorchid animal and they should go abdomen diving. There's not really any substantive risk to tattooing, so I do it. It takes like 5 seconds, so I don't see a compelling reason not to do it.

I tattoo feral cat ears, too, even though I clip them. Too many feral cats are missing ear tips due to natural causes, so I mark them inside the ear (as well as the abdomen for females) as an additional sign.

 

[VetToBe585]

I'm not arguing with googling things in general, our vets do that all the time; We just have a problem when she's googling drug dosages that are completely wrong, putting animals in danger. Plumb's is really available as well as the other vets in the clinic if she's not sure, but she doesn't like to use them and it ends up being unsafe.

 

[Lupin21]

I'm not arguing with googling things in general, our vets do that all the time; We just have a problem when she's googling drug dosages that are completely wrong, putting animals in danger. Plumb's is really available as well as the other vets in the clinic if she's not sure, but she doesn't like to use them and it ends up being unsafe.

Question for you. Who or what confirms that the drug dosages she looked up are unsafe? Is this chat behind her back that you overhear from the other vets? It just seems odd in that case that they haven't told her that she needs to be doing it differently.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Things that make a vet unpleasant to be around: Not showering, like at all.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I'm not arguing with googling things in general, our vets do that all the time; We just have a problem when she's googling drug dosages that are completely wrong, putting animals in danger. Plumb's is really available as well as the other vets in the clinic if she's not sure, but she doesn't like to use them and it ends up being unsafe.

If she's frequently putting her patients in danger, why is she still there and why are you all still working with an unsafe vet?

 

[VetToBe585]

We double check with another vet when it seems off, and she has been talked to several times by our practice owner/head vet, yet continues to do things weekly that we find are incorrect/unsafe. Why she is still here, I cannot tell you, (hence, my rant about her being not a great vet!).

 

[Vetskoldreama]

Whoa what a thread. I think my number one thing I hate to see my mentors do is fail to take into account what the clients are saying. I can't tell you how often I have worked with vets who fail to believe clients.

Another pet peeve is I once worked for a vet who put down a healthy dog because the sibling had cancer and the owner decided the dog couldn't live alone. And the dogs weren't even particularly bonded. (Which I know because one of the techs lived next door to the owner).

Le sigh.

Well, that's how I get all my animals, through owners being dicks. I've seen this happen only once, and I will NEVER let it happen again. It will become my animal where I will adopt it out before it is euthanized.

 

[DVMDream]

Well, that's how I get all my animals, through owners being dicks. I've seen this happen only once, and I will NEVER let it happen again. It will become my animal where I will adopt it out before it is euthanized.

I just need to quote and paste into the bad pre-vet thread.